Good Day to be a Coug, 2018

[CougEd]

Price put pflugrad in charge, he gushed over his recruiting style etc...

Yeah...he did. What is your point that Doba couldn't have made the change? Who did Doba hire that was an aggressive salesman like what is on Leach's staff? Ken Greene? Levy? Rosie? Yarno? The name of the game is talent acquisition. At no time in Cougar history was it better to acquire talent. Do you disagree?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Yo Joe...your hanky bankies climbing up a little to far? I knew it was a five year rebuild because of what Doba did. Because of the lack of lineman on both sides of the ball. Because of the horrible retention he had, and the model that Mike Price had and how long it took to develop a QB once they got a Pac 10 talent. Doba took over the most successful teams we had in our history, and for the first time we had a record and consistency to recruit off of. It was clear the very first Doba dinner, and the second one that he was not bringing in Erik Coleman or Trufant, or even Karl Paymah.

He wasn't bringing in Rien Long or Jeremy Williams or even a Ron Chids. Doba made two critical errors...one he let Robin Pflugrad run the recruiting. RP made the same mistake at ASU and did it again at WSU. Instead of going after the kids that made it work and fit the system they started to go head to head with USC and didn't have the Ron Childs sewn up and committed. So when Snoop Stewart said no they didn't have the A- kid because he wasn't offered like he had been in the past.

The second mistake was he went to ball control and the rest of the conference went to Mike Price big play offense. And that not only hurt our ability to score touchdowns but hurt us in recruiting.

So yeah, I watched the erosion of something really special under Doba. Do I hold anger against him? Not at all. I simply know whoever took over (and I wanted Price) the fact we lost our two starting DT's and had no Qb with experience that was going to make it a long haul to get back to a bowl game.

I agree 100% that the decline of Cougar football started under Doba. The defense in 2007 was an abomination that was hidden from view because our offense in 2007 was good enough to make it look bad instead of the disaster that lurked beneath. That said, We still went 5-7 in 2007 with two close losses that, if they had gone the other way, would have yielded a bowl game. Contrast that with 2008. No loss within two touchdowns and ten losses by 25+ points. Two wins total. A program not in decline but burned all the way to the ground. Don't blame Doba for the mess that Wulff had. He made the decision to torch the place to clean up the mess. Maybe he "needed" to do it, but watching the man go into a press conference and abandon the entire team to salvage his own pride was sickening to watch.

In the end, I think that Wulff did a decent job of building a base for Leach to work on, but he still left us with an abysmal offensive line and a culture of losing that was difficult to escape. He was never going to get WSU back to the 9-4 mark that Leach got us to in 2015. He made the decision to burn the program down and put himself into such a deep hole that it would have been difficult for any coach to get out of in four years and that's why he wasn't good enough for the job and he needed to get canned. I don't buy the arguments that he was the worst coach in the history of college football, but he was definitely guilty of being the stupidest one in 2008. Only a fool believes otherwise.

 

[CougEd]

I agree 100% that the decline of Cougar football started under Doba. The defense in 2007 was an abomination that was hidden from view because our offense in 2007 was good enough to make it look bad instead of the disaster that lurked beneath. That said, We still went 5-7 in 2007 with two close losses that, if they had gone the other way, would have yielded a bowl game. Contrast that with 2008. No loss within two touchdowns and ten losses by 25+ points. Two wins total. A program not in decline but burned all the way to the ground. Don't blame Doba for the mess that Wulff had. He made the decision to torch the place to clean up the mess. Maybe he "needed" to do it, but watching the man go into a press conference and abandon the entire team to salvage his own pride was sickening to watch.

In the end, I think that Wulff did a decent job of building a base for Leach to work on, but he still left us with an abysmal offensive line and a culture of losing that was difficult to escape. He was never going to get WSU back to the 9-4 mark that Leach got us to in 2015. He made the decision to burn the program down and put himself into such a deep hole that it would have been difficult for any coach to get out of in four years and that's why he wasn't good enough for the job and he needed to get canned. I don't buy the arguments that he was the worst coach in the history of college football, but he was definitely guilty of being the stupidest one in 2008. Only a fool believes otherwise.

Flat...the blowouts were going to happen, That is the point. You are losing two of your most experienced DT's. And even with that group in 2007 and our most experienced QB ever who could at least control the time on the clock somewhat and give the defense a rest, we gave up 52 to Oregon, 53 to OSU, 42 to Wisconsin, 48 to USC, 47 to Arizona. he handwriting was on the wall once Brink stopped getting first downs what was going to happen. Do you really believe Matt E was a PAc 10 starting DT? We couldn't stop a dive play.

What did Leach do that was all that different that Wulff in terms of making friends on the football team? You think Matt Simmons family has glowing things to say about Leach? Duckett? Golden? Rodgers? I can name quite a few people who probably cant stand him. Leach won 2 more games his initial year than Wulff and he lost more games than Wulff did the previous year. Does that mean Wulff is in the same class as Leach. No. What it does tell me is transitions are extremely difficult. Do you really believe if Leach took over in 2008 he could have made Lopina more accurate? You think the win losses would have been that much different? He won three games with Tuel and Halliday. One who had a cup of coffee in the NFL, the other held school records.

There are many differences. Would you have been ok with Leach doing 2008 what he did in 2012? He kind of took things down to the studs or worse. The difference---respect. leach had the resume, Wulff did not. You cant go in the scenario in 2008 or 2012 and be there friends. You set "Your" tone". That team under Doba became soft. They had zero idea what hard work meant. And part of that is no one was around from the 2002 and even 2003 teams to help guide the younger players.

 

[longtimecoug]

Yeah...he did. What is your point that Doba couldn't have made the change? Who did Doba hire that was an aggressive salesman like what is on Leach's staff? Ken Greene? Levy? Rosie? Yarno? The name of the game is talent acquisition. At no time in Cougar history was it better to acquire talent. Do you disagree?

the point is in exposing your bias, you state the Doba let pflugrad be in charge of recruiting, not really an accurate statement since doba inherited him as recruiting coordinator, he merely kept him on in that capacity

 

[dgibbons]

the point is in exposing your bias, you state the Doba let pflugrad be in charge of recruiting, not really an accurate statement since doba inherited him as recruiting coordinator, he merely kept him on in that capacity

You don't understand how innovative Wulff was. We were headed toward an offense that would only have two offensive linemen....

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Flat...the blowouts were going to happen, That is the point. You are losing two of your most experienced DT's. And even with that group in 2007 and our most experienced QB ever who could at least control the time on the clock somewhat and give the defense a rest, we gave up 52 to Oregon, 53 to OSU, 42 to Wisconsin, 48 to USC, 47 to Arizona. he handwriting was on the wall once Brink stopped getting first downs what was going to happen. Do you really believe Matt E was a PAc 10 starting DT? We couldn't stop a dive play.

What did Leach do that was all that different that Wulff in terms of making friends on the football team? You think Matt Simmons family has glowing things to say about Leach? Duckett? Golden? Rodgers? I can name quite a few people who probably cant stand him. Leach won 2 more games his initial year than Wulff and he lost more games than Wulff did the previous year. Does that mean Wulff is in the same class as Leach. No. What it does tell me is transitions are extremely difficult. Do you really believe if Leach took over in 2008 he could have made Lopina more accurate? You think the win losses would have been that much different? He won three games with Tuel and Halliday. One who had a cup of coffee in the NFL, the other held school records.

There are many differences. Would you have been ok with Leach doing 2008 what he did in 2012? He kind of took things down to the studs or worse. The difference---respect. leach had the resume, Wulff did not. You cant go in the scenario in 2008 or 2012 and be there friends. You set "Your" tone". That team under Doba became soft. They had zero idea what hard work meant. And part of that is no one was around from the 2002 and even 2003 teams to help guide the younger players.

For three years, I had heard how much Brink sucked and how great Swogger/Rogers was. We had plenty of returning starters on offense for the team to be better than it was in 2008. You mentioned scores in your post, but when you look at the change from 2007 to 2008, it shows the dramatic dropoff in play. Below is a list of our score differential in each season, 2007 is first, 2008 is second:

Cal: -3, -63
Oregon: -46, -49
UCLA: +20, -25
OSU: -35, -53
USC: -33, -69
Stanford: +16, -58
Arizona: -28, -31
ASU: -3, -31
UW: +7, +3

In every case, our team was worse in 2008 and usually by a huge margin. You ask about the difference between Leach and Wulff in how they treated their players during their early years and the difference is stark when you realize it. In 2008, Wulff said that he was left with a team with no talent that was incapable of winning games until he rebuilt the program from the bottom up. In 2012, Leach said that he was left with a bunch of gutless slackers who needed to quit playing like zombies if they were ever going to have success. Wulff told the team to quit because they were worthless anyway.....Leach told them to suck it up and play better. Huge difference.

 

[SaveFerris]

Flat...the blowouts were going to happen, That is the point.

To call most of Wulff's losses blowouts is an insult to blowouts. He showed every step of the way that he was not equipped to run a program and was totally in over his head. The only thing that made it worse was the way he went out kicking and screaming taking every opportunity to complain about the raw deal he received.

 

[longtimecoug]

For three years, I had heard how much Brink sucked and how great Swogger/Rogers was. We had plenty of returning starters on offense for the team to be better than it was in 2008. You mentioned scores in your post, but when you look at the change from 2007 to 2008, it shows the dramatic dropoff in play. Below is a list of our score differential in each season, 2007 is first, 2008 is second:

Cal: -3, -63
Oregon: -46, -49
UCLA: +20, -25
OSU: -35, -53
USC: -33, -69
Stanford: +16, -58
Arizona: -28, -31
ASU: -3, -31
UW: +7, +3

In every case, our team was worse in 2008 and usually by a huge margin. You ask about the difference between Leach and Wulff in how they treated their players during their early years and the difference is stark when you realize it. In 2008, Wulff said that he was left with a team with no talent that was incapable of winning games until he rebuilt the program from the bottom up. In 2012, Leach said that he was left with a bunch of gutless slackers who needed to quit playing like zombies if they were ever going to have success. Wulff told the team to quit because they were worthless anyway.....Leach told them to suck it up and play better. Huge difference.

true story, and this does not reflect the fact that opposing teams were putting reserves in the game early, generally in the first half, but ED has never been able to see the difference between a 3 point loss and 69-0

 

[SaveFerris]

true story, and this does not reflect the fact that opposing teams were putting reserves in the game early, generally in the first half, but ED has never been able to see the difference between a 3 point loss and 69-0

I'll never forget the SC game where Carroll kept running the same play to close out the half trying to keep the score down. Carroll literally throws up his arms in the air. How many first quarter boat races where 8 minutes in we were down 3 or 4 TDs! I never could have imagined it could get so bad.

 

[fingerdisco]

I'll never forget the SC game where Carroll kept running the same play to close out the half trying to keep the score down. Carroll literally throws up his arms in the air. How many first quarter boat races where 8 minutes in we were down 3 or 4 TDs! I never could have imagined it could get so bad.

Never would've happened if Doba hadn't kept Pflugrad as recruiting coordinator.

 

[YakiCoug]

I agree 100% that the decline of Cougar football started under Doba. The defense in 2007 was an abomination that was hidden from view because our offense in 2007 was good enough to make it look bad instead of the disaster that lurked beneath. That said, We still went 5-7 in 2007 with two close losses that, if they had gone the other way, would have yielded a bowl game. Contrast that with 2008. No loss within two touchdowns and ten losses by 25+ points. Two wins total. A program not in decline but burned all the way to the ground. Don't blame Doba for the mess that Wulff had. He made the decision to torch the place to clean up the mess. Maybe he "needed" to do it, but watching the man go into a press conference and abandon the entire team to salvage his own pride was sickening to watch.

In the end, I think that Wulff did a decent job of building a base for Leach to work on, but he still left us with an abysmal offensive line and a culture of losing that was difficult to escape. He was never going to get WSU back to the 9-4 mark that Leach got us to in 2015. He made the decision to burn the program down and put himself into such a deep hole that it would have been difficult for any coach to get out of in four years and that's why he wasn't good enough for the job and he needed to get canned. I don't buy the arguments that he was the worst coach in the history of college football, but he was definitely guilty of being the stupidest one in 2008. Only a fool believes otherwise.

The same dolts who dismiss how Doba could have had WSU in bowls in 2006 and 2007 bone up over a how a 4-8 2011 season could have been 6-6 which, had it happened, would have been followed by a slate of two-win seasons All that aside, only Ed's malignant narcissism allows any of this to still be discussed in 2017. Why doesn't the president of the Little Dick Baird Club go ed nauseam over WSU's 13-5 Pac-12 record over the last two seasons? Well, that's something a real Coug might consider.

 

[YakiCoug]

true story, and this does not reflect the fact that opposing teams were putting reserves in the game early, generally in the first half, but ED has never been able to see the difference between a 3 point loss and 69-0

Marpuss Wilson owes his stats to playing against third-teamers.

 

[CougEd]

To call most of Wulff's losses blowouts is an insult to blowouts. He showed every step of the way that he was not equipped to run a program and was totally in over his head. The only thing that made it worse was the way he went out kicking and screaming taking every opportunity to complain about the raw deal he received.

Save....you are speaking about a totally separate issue. Yes I wish he would have shut his mouth and gone out with dignity and class. The point is he should never have been put in the position to take on a major overhaul and one of if not the hardest places to recruit in the country. And to recruit with the major success we had in the early 2000's in the rear view mirror. Mike Price should have been the hire. Did Oregon State hire Beau Baldwin after Riley left and the program was in a downward spiral, or a coach who had coached at the D1 level?

Yes if you want to say a 53-7 blowout is much better than a 66-3 blowout, sure. But that 53-7 blowout would have been a 66-3 blowout if you are starting Levinseller at QB

 

[CougEd]

I'll never forget the SC game where Carroll kept running the same play to close out the half trying to keep the score down. Carroll literally throws up his arms in the air. How many first quarter boat races where 8 minutes in we were down 3 or 4 TDs! I never could have imagined it could get so bad.

That is kind of the point Save....we couldn't stop a simple dive play. Why not? Coaching? Or was it Matt E wasn't a Pac 10 defensive tackle. Do you think WSU could have stopped that dive play if they had Aaron Johnson or Ropati? It was bad because we didn't sign and retain defensive tackles and we played a 4-3 defense where you need the run stoppers.

 

[CougEd]

The same dolts who dismiss how Doba could have had WSU in bowls in 2006 and 2007 bone up over a how a 4-8 2011 season could have been 6-6 which, had it happened, would have been followed by a slate of two-win seasons All that aside, only Ed's malignant narcissism allows any of this to still be discussed in 2017. Why doesn't the president of the Little Dick Baird Club go ed nauseam over WSU's 13-5 Pac-12 record over the last two seasons? Well, that's something a real Coug might consider.

Hey Banky Spanky..I didn't bring up the subject until it was brought up in the thread. And why don't I go all Joe Blow on the 13-5 season? well, I haven't seen anything that has been said that I have a different opinion about. I did speak up after he lost to Eastern and people wanted to jump off the cliff, I said simply wait and see how the season plays out.

Did I get all up in arms like others when we have been blown out two years in a row by the Huskies? Nope. Do you want me to get all pissy and say catch the ball in those games and quit worrying about getting hit, and that we play soft against the Huskies? No, it is a match up problem for us. They own us right now. My hope is Leach gets it figured out.

I think 13-5 is a really good record. I thought because the game was in Pullman we would win the north, but that didn't happen. What did you want me to say after the Holiday Bowl. It was a nice family trip and the game sucked? It is interesting that my financial nor emotional support hasn't waned whether we were good or bad, and yet it is my Cougness you would like to challenge. I would bet Moos would rather have someone give more during the tough times and not withhold support to make those times even tougher. And if it wasn't for the Pac 12 money, we would still be hiring on the cheap.

 

[CougEd]

the point is in exposing your bias, you state the Doba let pflugrad be in charge of recruiting, not really an accurate statement since doba inherited him as recruiting coordinator, he merely kept him on in that capacity

There is no bias. The first thing Chip Kelly did was fire Robin. On paper to the average person Doba changing his recruiting philosophy and also changing WSU's offensive approach made sense on the surface. But WSU needs to get the players that got them to the three 10 win season. Make sure those players are secured in the program. It was obvious in the first recruiting class and the second class that the talent drop off was extreme. And to couple the problem is everyone else was going to big play offenses and attracting the athletes that would come to WSU. Combine that with a coaching staff that didn't want to recruit or sell and you wind up with a team that went into a huge decline.

Who do you blame for the financial crisis (depression) of 08-10? When the market fully collapsed in early 09, does that fall at the feet of Obama, as he was in the office?

 

[YakiCoug]

Hey Banky Spanky..I didn't bring up the subject until it was brought up in the thread. And why don't I go all Joe Blow on the 13-5 season? well, I haven't seen anything that has been said that I have a different opinion about. I did speak up after he lost to Eastern and people wanted to jump off the cliff, I said simply wait and see how the season plays out.

Did I get all up in arms like others when we have been blown out two years in a row by the Huskies? Nope. Do you want me to get all pissy and say catch the ball in those games and quit worrying about getting hit, and that we play soft against the Huskies? No, it is a match up problem for us. They own us right now. My hope is Leach gets it figured out.

I think 13-5 is a really good record. I thought because the game was in Pullman we would win the north, but that didn't happen. What did you want me to say after the Holiday Bowl. It was a nice family trip and the game sucked? It is interesting that my financial nor emotional support hasn't waned whether we were good or bad, and yet it is my Cougness you would like to challenge. I would bet Moos would rather have someone give more during the tough times and not withhold support to make those times even tougher. And if it wasn't for the Pac 12 money, we would still be hiring on the cheap.

The truth is, Erictiledysfunction, you are no longer relevant - anywhere. Take your malignant narcissism elsewhere (btw, this "Joe" stuff is funny. You are so easily duped).

 

[Loyal Coug]

I'll never forget the SC game where Carroll kept running the same play to close out the half trying to keep the score down. Carroll literally throws up his arms in the air. How many first quarter boat races where 8 minutes in we were down 3 or 4 TDs! I never could have imagined it could get so bad.

Ok, two things. First, didn't USC take a knee in the first half in our territory in that game? Probably a first and only in CFB history.

Second, for some reason my posts trend to be thread-enders. Can it hold true for this train wreckED thread?

 

[YakiCoug]

There is no bias. The first thing Chip Kelly did was fire Robin. On paper to the average person Doba changing his recruiting philosophy and also changing WSU's offensive approach made sense on the surface. But WSU needs to get the players that got them to the three 10 win season. Make sure those players are secured in the program. It was obvious in the first recruiting class and the second class that the talent drop off was extreme. And to couple the problem is everyone else was going to big play offenses and attracting the athletes that would come to WSU. Combine that with a coaching staff that didn't want to recruit or sell and you wind up with a team that went into a huge decline.

Who do you blame for the financial crisis (depression) of 08-10? When the market fully collapsed in early 09, does that fall at the feet of Obama, as he was in the office?

Or one can focus on the predators such as yourself who financially benefited from the deregulation that helped produce the "housing bubble."

 

[CPtheCoug]

Or one can focus on the predators such as yourself who financially benefited from the deregulation that helped produce the "housing bubble."

Now you've done it...

 

[CougEd]

The truth is, Erictiledysfunction, you are no longer relevant - anywhere. Take your malignant narcissism elsewhere (btw, this "Joe" stuff is funny. You are so easily duped).

Well...JB....I fear you have a great misunderstanding of me. You see, I don't post to stay relevant. I post to state my opinion or opinions. It is hard to be "relevant" when everyone is an anonymous as they sit behind made up names on a message board.

In terms of being duped, how so? My guess it is you who was duped

 

[CougEd]

Or one can focus on the predators such as yourself who financially benefited from the deregulation that helped produce the "housing bubble."

Ah...so now that our industry is making more because of the legislation of Dodd Frank, are we all still predators? Or simply providing a service.

And I would be more than happy for you to come to my office and show me where in my data base where there is one predatory loan. Wasn't part of my business model. If it was, like many who did sub prime loans I would be in a different line of work as that biz flamed out in hurry. I do have to say your post is much like Trump's tweet... "Obama is wire tapping me".

 

[CougEd]

Ok, two things. First, didn't USC take a knee in the first half in our territory in that game? Probably a first and only in CFB history.

Second, for some reason my posts trend to be thread-enders. Can it hold true for this train wreckED thread?

Yep, certainly a low point. We couldn't stop a dive play. But how do you stop a dive play when a defensive tackle is on his back or 10 yards in the defensive backfield. If we could stop a dive play they wouldn't have had to take a knee. Certainly a low point.

 

[CougEd]

For three years, I had heard how much Brink sucked and how great Swogger/Rogers was. We had plenty of returning starters on offense for the team to be better than it was in 2008. You mentioned scores in your post, but when you look at the change from 2007 to 2008, it shows the dramatic dropoff in play. Below is a list of our score differential in each season, 2007 is first, 2008 is second:

Cal: -3, -63
Oregon: -46, -49
UCLA: +20, -25
OSU: -35, -53
USC: -33, -69
Stanford: +16, -58
Arizona: -28, -31
ASU: -3, -31
UW: +7, +3

In every case, our team was worse in 2008 and usually by a huge margin. You ask about the difference between Leach and Wulff in how they treated their players during their early years and the difference is stark when you realize it. In 2008, Wulff said that he was left with a team with no talent that was incapable of winning games until he rebuilt the program from the bottom up. In 2012, Leach said that he was left with a bunch of gutless slackers who needed to quit playing like zombies if they were ever going to have success. Wulff told the team to quit because they were worthless anyway.....Leach told them to suck it up and play better. Huge difference.

Flat, I do have to ask....when in WSU's history when a multi year starting qb (until Leach) left the program did offensive production not go way down? 1988 to 1989? Yeah production went down. Then in 90 and 91 with the number one pick in the draft they became respectable. He left after the 92 season and once again production went down for the next four years. When Leaf left take a peek at what happened? They went from losing one game in conference in 97 to going winless.

Brink allowed the offense to stay on the field limited the plays the opposing offense could run. And when Brink played poorly in 07 you saw what potentially was coming down the pike. He played poorly against Oregon and they gave up 50 plus points. Could you imagine how many more points they would have got if Brink had four more thee and outs? They gave up 52 plus to Oregon State. How many would we have given up running Levenseller out there or Cole Morgan and they couldn't complete a pass for a first down. Brink for sure had his moments, but he was a really smart QB and played well between the 20's.

Who was this offensive talent you were talking about? There two best players were the center and a WR. We had no experience at QB. None. How did Aaron Garcia and Gossen do in 1990 without a good defense? Chad Davis? And they had experience. Do you remember what we looked like playing Chad Degrenier?

We had plenty of returning starters in 2012 to be better than we were the previous year. Change is hard. Do I think Wulff is a better coach because in his last year he had more wins than Leach had with two better QB's? Nope!

And I will challenge you to show me where he told the team to quit cause they sucked. He sent the same message to Doba's recruits that Leach sent to Wulff's. And there is zero wrong with that. Buy in or leave. M Wilson left. Jake Rodgers left. Simon, Duckett, Golden were all told don't worry about spring practice because their scholies weren't going to be renewed. That is how it works these days.

 

[brettcraycraft51]

maybe you guys can exchange email addresses so you can continue this circle-jerk elsewhere?

 

[dgibbons]

maybe you guys can exchange email addresses so you can continue this circle-jerk elsewhere?

Clearly this is Doba's fault.

 

[fingerdisco]

Clearly this is Doba's fault.

Yep--this thread never happened if he'd only fired Pflugrad as recruiting coordinator.

 

[Cougatron]

Yep--this thread never happened if he'd only fired Pflugrad as recruiting coordinator.

And then Danzy would have stayed and been all-American by the time Wulff showed up to lead us to the championship

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Flat, I do have to ask....when in WSU's history when a multi year starting qb (until Leach) left the program did offensive production not go way down? 1988 to 1989? Yeah production went down. Then in 90 and 91 with the number one pick in the draft they became respectable. He left after the 92 season and once again production went down for the next four years. When Leaf left take a peek at what happened? They went from losing one game in conference in 97 to going winless.

Brink allowed the offense to stay on the field limited the plays the opposing offense could run. And when Brink played poorly in 07 you saw what potentially was coming down the pike. He played poorly against Oregon and they gave up 50 plus points. Could you imagine how many more points they would have got if Brink had four more thee and outs? They gave up 52 plus to Oregon State. How many would we have given up running Levenseller out there or Cole Morgan and they couldn't complete a pass for a first down. Brink for sure had his moments, but he was a really smart QB and played well between the 20's.

Who was this offensive talent you were talking about? There two best players were the center and a WR. We had no experience at QB. None. How did Aaron Garcia and Gossen do in 1990 without a good defense? Chad Davis? And they had experience. Do you remember what we looked like playing Chad Degrenier?

We had plenty of returning starters in 2012 to be better than we were the previous year. Change is hard. Do I think Wulff is a better coach because in his last year he had more wins than Leach had with two better QB's? Nope!

And I will challenge you to show me where he told the team to quit cause they sucked. He sent the same message to Doba's recruits that Leach sent to Wulff's. And there is zero wrong with that. Buy in or leave. M Wilson left. Jake Rodgers left. Simon, Duckett, Golden were all told don't worry about spring practice because their scholies weren't going to be renewed. That is how it works these days.

Looking at 2011 vs 2012

CU: +4, -1
UCLA: -3, -8
Stanford: -30, -7
OSU: -23, -13
Oregon: -15, -25
Cal: -23, -14
ASU: +10, -39
Utah: -3, -43
UW: -3, +3

So, in four instances, Leach's 2012 team outperformed it's 2011 counterpart. In 2 other instances, the difference was less than a touchdown change. Only 3 losses of 25+ points (compared to 10 in 2008). Yeah, you're right, 2012 and 2008 were identical. WSU experienced the same kind of dropoff across the board that we saw in 2008. You asked about offensive talent and say that it was only Gibson and Alfred. You don't mention that one guy who ended up playing in the NFL that Wulff could do nothing with. His name was Chris Ivory. When you look at raw talent, Jeshua Anderson had an impressive debut in 2007 but left the team once he realized that WSU football was not going to help him get anywhere in life.

On the offensive line, Alfred, Rowlands, Lesuma and Hannam were returning starters from 2007. Roxas and Ayers were expected to play well and Guerra was serviceable as well. It wasn't a deep unit but they weren't bad by any means. Before the 2008 season, the WSU media guide listed the OL as the strength of the team. On defense, we returned 2 starters on the defensive line and all of the linebackers. We returned both corners and Chima played at safety after starting at cornerback in 2007. We returned 6 starters on offense and 9 on defense. All BS aside, there was no excuse for the huge dropoff in 2008 other than Wulff burning the m'fer down to the ground.

I tried to find videos of his press conferences in 2008 but couldn't, but I stick with my recollection that Wulff spent the year saying that he was stuck with no talent and Leach spent the whole year saying that the guys needed to quit acting like losers and play harder.

 

[CougEd]

maybe you guys can exchange email addresses so you can continue this circle-jerk elsewhere?

What Brett...some sort of a voyeur? I get you don't like Flat's and my exchange. Seems simple enough not to look.

 

[CougEd]

Looking at 2011 vs 2012

CU: +4, -1
UCLA: -3, -8
Stanford: -30, -7
OSU: -23, -13
Oregon: -15, -25
Cal: -23, -14
ASU: +10, -39
Utah: -3, -43
UW: -3, +3

So, in four instances, Leach's 2012 team outperformed it's 2011 counterpart. In 2 other instances, the difference was less than a touchdown change. Only 3 losses of 25+ points (compared to 10 in 2008). Yeah, you're right, 2012 and 2008 were identical. WSU experienced the same kind of dropoff across the board that we saw in 2008. You asked about offensive talent and say that it was only Gibson and Alfred. You don't mention that one guy who ended up playing in the NFL that Wulff could do nothing with. His name was Chris Ivory. When you look at raw talent, Jeshua Anderson had an impressive debut in 2007 but left the team once he realized that WSU football was not going to help him get anywhere in life.

On the offensive line, Alfred, Rowlands, Lesuma and Hannam were returning starters from 2007. Roxas and Ayers were expected to play well and Guerra was serviceable as well. It wasn't a deep unit but they weren't bad by any means. Before the 2008 season, the WSU media guide listed the OL as the strength of the team. On defense, we returned 2 starters on the defensive line and all of the linebackers. We returned both corners and Chima played at safety after starting at cornerback in 2007. We returned 6 starters on offense and 9 on defense. All BS aside, there was no excuse for the huge dropoff in 2008 other than Wulff burning the m'fer down to the ground.

I tried to find videos of his press conferences in 2008 but couldn't, but I stick with my recollection that Wulff spent the year saying that he was stuck with no talent and Leach spent the whole year saying that the guys needed to quit acting like losers and play harder.

Well....I would agree there was some talent. Chris Ivory was a talent when he wasn't hurt. How many games did we play in 2008? 11 or 12. He missed the last 8 due to injury, plus he has some other stuff going on.

Anderson quit. Rowlands went through all of August practice then quit one week before the season started. I believe Lesuma missed the first game if not the second game of the season. And not sure he was 100% or close to it all year. Ayers was a freshman if I recall correctly as was Guerra. So they were names without experience, and Ayers had to quit football because of an injury.

I will say this...I fully expected in 2008 BEFORE Wulff was ever announced as a coach that the opposing teams would be routinely putting up 55 plus against that defense. I fully expected 58-10 games. That was my expectation long before Wulff was hired as the coach. So the on field performance was close to where I expected it. And I would acknowledge I wish off the field he would have took responsibility, but in truth the AD that hired him put him in a no win situation. In 2008 with his resume and lack of "worldly" experience, experience outside of Cheney, what if he took Leach's line "we just have to coach better"? HE would have been crucified. You know it, I know it. Leach had the credentials to make such a comment, he had the resume that afforded him giving him leeway and the benefit of the doubt.

Leach struggling his first year as he did by winning three games simply confirmed what Price knew about taking over in 89 (especially the 90 season) what Wulff found out and what Leach knew, transitions are tough.

With all the talent you think WSU had in 08, and knowing WSU has always been qb centric, and knowing Leach won three games and struggled offensively in 2012, how many games do you think Leach would have won without any experience at QB, and having Lopina who was inaccurate, Rogers who had a great arm but struggled, and Morgan who was a D3 Qb and Levenseller who had to play? Would he have won 2 games with that crew?

 

[YakiCoug]

To call most of Wulff's losses blowouts is an insult to blowouts. He showed every step of the way that he was not equipped to run a program and was totally in over his head. The only thing that made it worse was the way he went out kicking and screaming taking every opportunity to complain about the raw deal he received.

If Ed or any other member of the $600,000/Little Dick Baird club actually talked to the guys who played under Wulff and his high school staff, they'd STHU. Well, maybe not. Ed's malignant narcissism would still rear its ugly head. That's just the way mental illness rolls.

 

[YakiCoug]

Oh, look! Ed's cutting and pasting things he posted six years ago!

Well....I would agree there was some talent. Chris Ivory was a talent when he wasn't hurt. How many games did we play in 2008? 11 or 12. He missed the last 8 due to injury, plus he has some other stuff going on.

Anderson quit. Rowlands went through all of August practice then quit one week before the season started. I believe Lesuma missed the first game if not the second game of the season. And not sure he was 100% or close to it all year. Ayers was a freshman if I recall correctly as was Guerra. So they were names without experience, and Ayers had to quit football because of an injury.

I will say this...I fully expected in 2008 BEFORE Wulff was ever announced as a coach that the opposing teams would be routinely putting up 55 plus against that defense. I fully expected 58-10 games. That was my expectation long before Wulff was hired as the coach. So the on field performance was close to where I expected it. And I would acknowledge I wish off the field he would have took responsibility, but in truth the AD that hired him put him in a no win situation. In 2008 with his resume and lack of "worldly" experience, experience outside of Cheney, what if he took Leach's line "we just have to coach better"? HE would have been crucified. You know it, I know it. Leach had the credentials to make such a comment, he had the resume that afforded him giving him leeway and the benefit of the doubt.

Leach struggling his first year as he did by winning three games simply confirmed what Price knew about taking over in 89 (especially the 90 season) what Wulff found out and what Leach knew, transitions are tough.

With all the talent you think WSU had in 08, and knowing WSU has always been qb centric, and knowing Leach won three games and struggled offensively in 2012, how many games do you think Leach would have won without any experience at QB, and having Lopina who was inaccurate, Rogers who had a great arm but struggled, and Morgan who was a D3 Qb and Levenseller who had to play? Would he have won 2 games with that crew?

 

[YakiCoug]

maybe you guys can exchange email addresses so you can continue this circle-jerk elsewhere?

Ed doesn't need Flat for a jerking. He has Chris Ball.