You on the other and must have been so busy Friday night with super important, young person, cool stuff that you couldn't spend all night posting....
Great… So glad this is in our rear view mirror
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You on the other and must have been so busy Friday night with super important, young person, cool stuff that you couldn't spend all night posting....
Thank god Dweeb Fest 2015 is in the books.
You guys must have run out of memes and cookie butter.
You guys must have run out of memes and cookie butter.
Granted, it wasn't so much "talk about football" as "and here's ANOTHER thing about Leach...", but at least it was in the neighborhood.
Honest discussion?- probably back to "I like Falk's increased mobility, but I'm sure Leach won't let him use it, because Leach..."
To be fair, Chinook posted about football just the other day. He found something to cast the team in a negative light, and, like a true Cougar- bam!- he shouted it from the rooftops as quick and loud as he could.
His fandom is only dwarfed by his football wisdom.
Whitless... Totally incorrect. On all accounts. ASk Biggs how many times we talked about Leach coming on board as early as October 2010. We just couldn't afford him.
Second, Leach is much more dynamic than Wulff. He is a coach even winning only 3 games in 2014 can keep his name and WU's name relevant in the national media. But our fans would much rather talk about a guy fired almost four years ago then they would talk about Leach being quoted on ESPN about his 64 team playoff.
Third, my "inside" source. I suppose I will have to tell you one more time. I never met Wulff. Not once. Never talked to him, never emailed, never had any contact with him or anyone on his staff. I met only one coach on that staff and only because the people who had seasons tix next to mine were very close to this one coach. If you brought that coach to my, had me stand across from me and asked if he knew my name or if he ever met me there would not have a clue.
In terms of "inside" info, I have way more knowledge now....and how important is that to me. Its not.
Who never said he made a mistake? Coaches make mistakes all the time. You have just proven you can nitpick anything a coach does.
Can you name anything you think was a mistake Paul Wulff made? Not "he hired the wrong coaches, but that wasn't really HIS fault, how could he get anyone else with the money and his limited profile?" A mistake you'd pin on just Wulff. Just one.
FWIW, losing a future Outland candidate from Spokane who wanted to come to your school because you were lazy in recruiting- that's not a nitpick, that's a glaring error.
Can you imagine the pants wetting fury that would descend on Leach if some other awards candidate came out and said "man, I really wanted to play for Mike Leach and WSU, but they just didn't really recruit me that hard".
I guarantee there'd be no "well, kid said he made a mistake. Oh well".
Given the rant when you were screeching about someone trying to get you booted from the board, whining like a little school yard girl from this board to the pay board wasn't very becoming. I think I just insulted little school yard girls. Oh yes, you just needed my email address from 7 years ago since we are such good friends you had to go to the company website to post teh name of a woman coworker. Yeah, that is normal behavior.
Woman of Wulff...is that like being a Lady of Leach?
It seems a bit disingenuous to talk about how awful a thing this was, then to keep bringing it up for discussion constantly.
No different than a coach hiring Breske or Volero or Russell.
And no, it would have been a glaring error if he didn't offer Dahl, he did. It was an error 11 other PAc 12 teams made by not seeing that he was a player worth offering. No one recruited the kid. Not Wyoming, not CSU, not Idaho. One guy outside of Montana. One. Some players take longer to evaluate. They offered him early enough to show they wanted him, they wanted him in their 2011 class, not some last minute insurance policy because others said no. But feel free to blame him on that one when no other coach in the conference, or even a conference below offered him.
So, Paul Wulff made no mistakes you can identify?
As for the Dahl thing, yup, I'll blame him. Let an Outland trophy candidate get away for lack of effort, and all your caterwauling about what other schools also didn't do doesn't change that at all. It is amusing that you consider Wulff's job done just by giving the offer, though. I bet Wulff thought that way a lot too. Bears out in his high quality recruiting classes.
Well when you have a family, you have kids and a wife and their are safety issues you would be concerned as well. And the fact that Yaki talks about other people and lies about the reason to make him look less like a stalker, yeah, I will bring it up because it is no longer I no longer have the same concern for my family because he cannot track them like he could have when he invaded the company website to "get my email address" .
But you're both still here, going back and forth. Hand to God, if this website caused my family "safety issues", well, there's other Cougar sites.
Yes, I can think of mistakes. His job is to identify talent, offer the kids who he thinks can help him, manage the scholies so he can get the most players in a class, and to sell an 18 year old kid. When yo say effort, you have no clue the effort, the number of contacts. The kid said HE didn't handle it right, and would have accepted the offer and that is why he came back to WSU on his own dime this time.
I have seen a D1 kid, 6'6 weighing 285, could do a 360 dunk on a basketball court, had the physical ability to play DE, would have made a really good offensive tackle and stopped the recruiting process to go to Central Washington because his girlfriend was going there. He isn't even playing football at Central.
Why would Connor Halliday go through everything he went through only to quit? Should we "blame" Leach for burning him out, or Jay Gruden for making it not fun? No. 18-22 year old kids make strange decisions.
Reverse it. Lets say Leach was here? Does he even recruit Dahl? Nope. Should I say " Leach had an Outland trophy winner in his back yard and he chose not to recruit him? Nope. What if he did offer Dahl in November and Dahl said no. Would I blame Leach for lack of effort or lack of sales skills. I would never say that about Leach when it came to the kid switching to San Jose State.
Well...you would hope that something as simple as a disagreement over football wouldn't cause the issue. And just not my family, but the woman's name he posted on the board. Yes, there are other sites, but what you end up doing is taking the necessary precautions.
See, I think Leach DOES recruit Dahl, because he's a GOOD coach.
The "I would never suggest (the thing I'm suggesting now)" sentence construction trick is cute though, and, even acknowledging Wulff mistakes- you haven't named a single one.
Ok, but did he "invade" your company website, like something from "Hackers", or did he go on a public website and look at a company directory?
Honestly, it doesn't matter. It sounds a bit ungainly, but you've decided it's not so much an issue that you won't continue discussion, so it seems like your main concern about it now is from a "telling people it happened" aspect. Fair enough- your deal.
Ed, still waiting for you to admit you were wrong when you stated that we should keep Ken Bone. I'm not giving up on this buddy. Copy and paste "I was wrong about defending Ken Bone". There, I made it very easy for you.
How many years do you have left on this earth. Cause you will be waiting a long time. Ken Bone is a good coach, wrong fit, didn't get it done in Pullman and was fired for it.Ed, still waiting for you to admit you were wrong when you stated that we should keep Ken Bone. I'm not giving up on this buddy. Copy and paste "I was wrong about defending Ken Bone". There, I made it very easy for you.
You are shifting away from the point Ed, which is that you were promoting that we keep him at WSU as our head basketball coach even up until the very end when it was clear that he was not getting it done. That is the issue. That is what I want you to admit you were wrong about. Not whether he is a "good" coach.
By the way Ed, please name me one head coach of a major sport that failed at WSU that went on to success at another university or even in the professional ranks?
If you succeed at WSU as head coach, you will succeed at another D-1 school as head coach. If you fail at WSU, you will do the same at any other D-1 school. My point? Don't blame WSU for how hard it is to recruit there, retain athletes, etc. Excellent coaches succeed there. Poor coaches (relative to their peers, obviously) fail there. It's really that simple.
Do we count Kevin Eastman? Isn't he well regarded on an NBA bench?
So, you CAN fail up at WSU... you just have to be good. If you're not, well... Big Sky assistant, and "other" are available. FWIW, Bone has useful coaching abilities- but not "win at Wazzu" level.
I think you are dead wrong. Who was the lightest olineman Leach has recruited in terms of weight since he has been at WSU? Cole Madison? Dahl weighed 240 at the time of recruitment.
Well you better ask God how much time you have. I gave you my answer. Do I care he was fired, no. Do I support Moos decision to fire the coach. Sure. Do I think Tony left the program in great shape? No. Do I think he left the program in horrible shape. Nope. I think if you asked Ken if he had to do it over again and had the knowledge of hindsight he would never had recruited Moore., because Moore never got how important he was to the program and couldn't figure out what he had to do.
I get your point, but it is hard to recruit in Pullman. I am a kid from Rainier Beach, sell me Pullman? I am a kid in LA, sell me Pullman. I sort of chuckled when I heard Marquis Johnson talk about George Raveling recruiting him. He and Moses Malone were on the same weekend trip. He said George would pick up the recruits in Spokane Friday night in a van, no windows in the van and would take the 90 minute trek to Pullman. He would leave Sunday night at Dark in the same van so the kids would not grasp how remote they truly are.
Tell me how "successful" Kelvin was here. In his third year as the head coach he won his first conference game and lost 17 straight. Kevin Eastman? Graham? Even my favorite coach of all time, Dick Bennett never had a winning season here. We had two magical seasons under Tony, and what did he do with Taylor R, Baynes, Nic K, Thopmson, Casto? He didn't have a winning Pac 10 season. So yeah, what WSU has taught me is things take time. Kelvin proved he could turn a program around, it took a long time however. Truth be told, if Kelvin had that record in 2014 good chance he may have been fired.
Bone was fired for not getting the job done. Period end of story. If Moos felt Bone had a big man and a PG ready to play immediately and decided to keep him for another year, I would have been supportive as well.
Jim Sweeney failed. Jackie Sherrill was 3-8 ish and finished second twoce in the country at Pitt. Marv Harshman? Eastman carved out a nice career for himself.
More unprovable negative speculation about the current coach in the face of proven negative facts about the previous coach- why is that your immediate Wulff defense?
What we know for sure? He chose to play for Leach, not Wulff, and developed into an Outland trophy candidate in large part due to this staff, and in zero part due to the last staff.
But Eastman has not been HC at the NBA. That is what I am getting at. He is certainly well regarded as an assistant.
I hated that Tony left the team with an NBA ALL-STAR. I hate it when that happens. And tell me how many times have we had one of those? And no, Bone's coaching didn't make him an all-star.
Regarding Moore, I was from the very beginning saying he was not a guy to recruit. I'm not talking about his basketball abilities either. Character matters buddy. He was all about himself and was a poor leader. Tony didn't offer him because he knew that.
Tony had a 7-11 conference record his third season, right? But in your mind, Tony would have flamed out at WSU because we were in a downward trajectory from which he could never recover. That is Ed logic. He succeeded wildly by any measure at WSU and has done very well at UVa.
As for Bone, you are hiding behind the old "I'll support the AD whatever he wants to do" tactic. No. I'm asking you to tell us you were wrong in supporting Bone (not the AD's decision explicitly at the time) to the very end. That is your error. And it's okay, we all make errors in judgment, but it is important to recognize them and to admit one is wrong after they occur or one may never learn from them.
As for Sherrill, I actually knew you'd take his ONE season at WSU and use that as an example. No. One season does not a trend make. Nor can you take one season and necessarily project how a coach will do at a school. He would have been successful at WSU if he had stayed longer just as he was at Pitt and Texas A&M. I am quite sure of that.
As for Marv Harshman, do you know how he did at WSU? Certainly he was a success and had the program extremely competitive before he left for UW.
Kelvin took us to the NCAA tournament his final year. How many times has that happened Mr. Historian? So yes, he ended up showing he could succeed at WSU (even if he had a problem with the rules).
Jim Sweeney moved to a lower level of football. So his experience is not relevant to my challenge to you. He was only fired from WSU because of his inexplicable and unforgivable loss in the Apple Cup in his final game.
So my point remains, if a head coach can succeed at WSU, they will succeed elsewhere. If they fail at WSU, they will also fail at the same position and at the same level elsewhere.
You're a funny guy Ed. I am enjoying your deflections.
Now please, respond by copying and pasting this into your reply: "I was wrong about promoting the idea that we should keep Bone as our head coach until the very end."
You can do it!
Yes "Buddy", ole "chum" and good friend of mine, character does matter. That also applies to not smoking a bowl right before you are playing for an NCAA birth and serve a one game suspension when your team is playing UCLA. . Kids make mistakes. Moore kept making them. It ould have been nice if Thompson came back for his senior year and erase the last game of his regular season Cougar career.I hated that Tony left the team with an NBA ALL-STAR. I hate it when that happens. And tell me how many times have we had one of those? And no, Bone's coaching didn't make him an all-star.
Regarding Moore, I was from the very beginning saying he was not a guy to recruit. I'm not talking about his basketball abilities either. Character matters buddy. He was all about himself and was a poor leader. Tony didn't offer him because he knew that.
Tony had a 7-11 conference record his third season, right? But in your mind, Tony would have flamed out at WSU because we were in a downward trajectory from which he could never recover. That is Ed logic. He succeeded wildly by any measure at WSU and has done very well at UVa.
As for Bone, you are hiding behind the old "I'll support the AD whatever he wants to do" tactic. No. I'm asking you to tell us you were wrong in supporting Bone (not the AD's decision explicitly at the time) to the very end. That is your error. And it's okay, we all make errors in judgment, but it is important to recognize them and to admit one is wrong after they occur or one may never learn from them.
As for Sherrill, I actually knew you'd take his ONE season at WSU and use that as an example. No. One season does not a trend make. Nor can you take one season and necessarily project how a coach will do at a school. He would have been successful at WSU if he had stayed longer just as he was at Pitt and Texas A&M. I am quite sure of that.
As for Marv Harshman, do you know how he did at WSU? Certainly he was a success and had the program extremely competitive before he left for UW.
Kelvin took us to the NCAA tournament his final year. How many times has that happened Mr. Historian? So yes, he ended up showing he could succeed at WSU (even if he had a problem with the rules).
Jim Sweeney moved to a lower level of football. So his experience is not relevant to my challenge to you. He was only fired from WSU because of his inexplicable and unforgivable loss in the Apple Cup in his final game.
So my point remains, if a head coach can succeed at WSU, they will succeed elsewhere. If they fail at WSU, they will also fail at the same position and at the same level elsewhere.
You're a funny guy Ed. I am enjoying your deflections.
Now please, respond by copying and pasting this into your reply: "I was wrong about promoting the idea that we should keep Bone as our head coach until the very end."
You can do it!
Yes, I get Kelvin took us to a birth his final year. And how many years was he in Pullman as an assistant and coach before that magical number happened? 7? I see your point, be patient? Is that it?
Of course Ken had zero to do with helping Klay get to the next level. The man simply rolled the balls out there and Klay did the rest.
As for Tony, do I think he could have recovered from the misevaluations on Hartune, Brown, Witherill, Simons? Maybe. I do know what he did with two NBA players on his roster and a very very good point guard. Aa for Virginia, he can fly into Baltimore, drive to four high schools and fill his roster. That doesn't include going to Oak Hill Academy or up to Dematha or other DC area teams. Everyone has always known UVA is a sleeping giant. He has done well there. But the resources are quite different than what he left in terms to access to talent.
It isn't a negative fact saying a kid picked Montana and then said he wanted to come back to Pullman and didn't know virtually anything about the new coach. What it says to me is when 11 out of 12 teams don't think he is Pac 12 worthy, including CU and Washington,who struggled with lineman, and no one at Idaho or CSU or Wyoming, it tells me he saw something in Dahl others did not.
And no one is taking a thing away from Clay M, he has done a great job with the line.
And it is not "negative speculation". If Joe Dahl was seen as a legit PAc 12 player there would have been other offers. Mike Leach doesn't "need" to recruit kids that project. That isn't negative comment, but rather a compliment to how far reaching his name is. Who is the last player at oline that Mike Leach recruited against the likes of Montana to secure a commitment for a 240 offensive lineman?
Angry Coug housewives can't help themselves. They must stand by their man.
If you read that article, Joe Dahl. Good follow through locking in an Outland trophy candidate.
That's right, "everyone" (WSU fans especially) "knew" that UVa was a "sleeping giant" and at the same time exclaimed "WTF...Virginia?!" when he bolted out to that school that no one even saw on their radar as being such the "sleeping giant" in 2009. You never mentioned that UVa was a "sleeping giant" before he left, I am certain of that (nor did I). So sure, your rationale makes perfect sense to me. <sarcasm alert>
And smoking a bowl right before a game makes my point buddy. Character matters and Bone was too hard-headed about going after Seattle-area talent to see the serious character issues that Moore had. This is why Tony didn't offer him. Do you understand this?
So Kelvin took a long time (his assistant years count for nothing in this discussion, by the way). You know what happened after he reached the NCAA tournament, a very good program recognized that and offered him a lucrative contract. Apparently, they knew good coaching when they saw it and were not dissuaded by the fact it took a few years to get WSU to the Big Dance. He did quite well at Oklahoma, which proved their assessement. Do you understand this point?
Which major program came after Bone to hire him away after he got to the NIT semis? The answer is none. Now why is that Mr. Ed? Because it was recognized around the country that he could not coach successfully at the D-1 level with any consistency. If fact, he underperformed that season, and everyone who knows coaching knew this.
Finally, how many NBA players did Tony have on his Sweet Sixteen teams? How many people thought at that time that that player would have signed a multimillion dollar NBA contract several years later? Answer; approximately zero. So my point is that Tony could win without stars, and now wins without stars (Brogdan being arguably an exception).
Your "maybe" response regarding whether Tony's WSU program was spiraling downward is laughable. I hope you don't really believe it was a "maybe". He certainly would have done very well at WSU if he had stayed. But it doesn't matter, he didn't. The point remains though. Bone could win a few games (best finish in conference with a future NBA all-star was, what, sixth place?). No one is clamoring to hire Bone at the D-1 level as their head coach, and no one will ever be clamoring to do such.
Now please quit being so hard-headed. Admit you were wrong (just like the brilliant minds that run Cougcenter were*). This will be liberating and good for your soul.
* If you doubt their brilliance, just ask Nusser, for example, and I'm sure he'll tell you all about it.
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If you lived back their like have, and you have friends who you played football and basketball with that went there, people back there know what that school has to offer and it is a 30 minute plane ride to the bball mecca.That's right, "everyone" (WSU fans especially) "knew" that UVa was a "sleeping giant" and at the same time exclaimed "WTF...Virginia?!" when he bolted out to that school that no one even saw on their radar as being such the "sleeping giant" in 2009. You never mentioned that UVa was a "sleeping giant" before he left, I am certain of that (nor did I). So sure, your rationale makes perfect sense to me. <sarcasm alert>
And smoking a bowl right before a game makes my point buddy. Character matters and Bone was too hard-headed about going after Seattle-area talent to see the serious character issues that Moore had. This is why Tony didn't offer him. Do you understand this?
So Kelvin took a long time (his assistant years count for nothing in this discussion, by the way). You know what happened after he reached the NCAA tournament, a very good program recognized that and offered him a lucrative contract. Apparently, they knew good coaching when they saw it and were not dissuaded by the fact it took a few years to get WSU to the Big Dance. He did quite well at Oklahoma, which proved their assessement. Do you understand this point?
Which major program came after Bone to hire him away after he got to the NIT semis? The answer is none. Now why is that Mr. Ed? Because it was recognized around the country that he could not coach successfully at the D-1 level with any consistency. If fact, he underperformed that season, and everyone who knows coaching knew this.
Finally, how many NBA players did Tony have on his Sweet Sixteen teams? How many people thought at that time that that player would have signed a multimillion dollar NBA contract several years later? Answer; approximately zero. So my point is that Tony could win without stars, and now wins without stars (Brogdan being arguably an exception).
Your "maybe" response regarding whether Tony's WSU program was spiraling downward is laughable. I hope you don't really believe it was a "maybe". He certainly would have done very well at WSU if he had stayed. But it doesn't matter, he didn't. The point remains though. Bone could win a few games (best finish in conference with a future NBA all-star was, what, sixth place?). No one is clamoring to hire Bone at the D-1 level as their head coach, and no one will ever be clamoring to do such.
Now please quit being so hard-headed. Admit you were wrong (just like the brilliant minds that run Cougcenter were*). This will be liberating and good for your soul.
* If you doubt their brilliance, just ask Nusser, for example, and I'm sure he'll tell you all about it.
In terms of tony doing very well at WSU after the initial recruits left, I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he would have cleaned up the awful recruiting class that he left. Not sure if he would have or not. Him going 7-11 with 2 NBA players and a great point guard does make me wonder.
Yes, if you definition of a good coach is that a 58 year old guy is being clamoured after as a head coach, then yah, he sucks.
All the two tourney teams told me is he can win with dads players at WSU. I don't remember Bone being left with two players that were 6 10. In Cowgill's case, with his long arms maybe 7 foot. I do remember Tony leaving him Thames, and Thames apparently wanted the ball in his hands and decided to transfer. It was an unfortunate decision.
Not gonna argue with that. The kid was offered, he decided that he wanted to go to Montana for whatever reason. Mid level kids get offered all the time in October. He just didn't know how the recruiting game was played. He committed early, WSU came in October and offered, I have no idea how many contacts they were allowed, he decided to stay at Montana then transfer in the fall of 2012. He was transferring no matter what, and as he said he handled it wrong. And it probably was a 25k mistake.
Dude..you are defending nut job Stalker behavior. Doesn't surprise me that us par for course on this site... But you did name yourself after Wulff so you have proved that you are not all their upstairs.
Well, then you'd think, with him being a stalker and nut job, you'd maintain distance. Instead, since all you do is talk to this "dangerous person", I think you're just using your standard hyperbole to describe a guy who went on a public website. It's ok- I'll load my guns for my protection.
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