Hercules, Falk, Saturday's game....

[CougEd]

Hercules remains unblock-able. He has an uncanny ability to time the center snap and get off the ball so quickly. reminds of a guy named Mitch Donahue who played at Wyoming circa 1990. He didnt seem to have the size but no one could block the guy. As long as he is healthy our defense will be improved.

It doesn't appear to me Falk ever recovered from the two head blows in the UCLA game and the CU game back in 2015.. He had more last second comeback in one season than I would guess any QB in WSU history. The QB I saw in 2016 and the 2017 version looks like Jeff Tuel did when he was learning the offense. BYU showed the blue print early on how to defense this offense. Drop 8, don't give up the big play, play coverage and make WSU go 80 yards without a mistake. Either his receivers are going to the open area, he isn't seeing it quickly enough, or a combination of the two.

It is also clear once Darnold, Rosen, Falk and others leave, Hillinksi has "it" and would be in top half at his position next season. He will suffer from some growing pains, but he looks to be a player.

It is interesting a QB from Boise who played for a Kansas team that was 8-40 reminded me how players "learn" how to win. It is a process, and WSU is in their growth where they know how to win, and they don't stop playing until the final whistle blows. If Boise QB makes a simple play, takes that ball and runs Boise can't lose that game, there wasn't enough time. Clearly Hillinski has what Falk had in 2015 winning games late.

Doesn't matter that the ball punted hit the defender in the back. Good teams take advantage of those moments.

 

[CougPatrol]

We had better be hitting the recruiting trail hard, because we're likely losing an enormous amount of defensive talent in our front 7 next season. Both DTs, Herc, Luvu.

 

[M-I-Coug]

Herc is a Redshirt Jr.

 

[CougPatrol]

Herc is a Redshirt Jr.

Almost assuredly will go pro.

 

[Cougsocal]

Hecules is a smaller version of Keith Millard. Insanely quick off the ball, always in the backfield, sideline to sideline player. He is also starting to demonstrate Millard's gas tank too.

Luke Falk -- brain injury!!! C'mon Ed, if he had one, wouldn't it be discernable clinically? If it was, he'd be on the sideline. If, and that is a big IF, it was the start of something like CTE, it wouldn't effect performance for years. Luke has a mental inpairment -- it is apprehension and a lack of confidence making the tough throw. It is a condition that thousand of QBs have or develop. It is what differentiates good QBs from the ordinary. It turned Jeff Tuel from a very promising freshman/sophamore to indecisive game manager as a senior.

 

[CougPatrol]

Not picking on ED here, as he's not the only poster to suggest that Falk's head injuries are to blame for his performance, but I think that's absurd. He's just not seeing things as quickly as he needs to; trying to be too perfect, as Leach suggested.

If anything, I think Falk's maybe guilty of being a little cocky. Waiting for the perfect route or the perfect play, instead of just reading and reacting like he used to.

 

[brettcraycraft51]

Not picking on ED here, as he's not the only poster to suggest that Falk's head injuries are to blame for his performance, but I think that's absurd. He's just not seeing things as quickly as he needs to; trying to be too perfect, as Leach suggested.

If anything, I think Falk's maybe guilty of being a little cocky. Waiting for the perfect route or the perfect play, instead of just reading and reacting like he used to.

how can you say in one breath that it's absurd to think that falk's head injuries are to blame for his performance and in the very next say that he's just not seeing things as quickly as he needs to? as if the one can't possibly have something to do with the other.

it may not be strictly speaking a physiological connection (like his injuries have caused diminished brain function or something), but it's not remotely absurd to suggest that the kinds of hits he's taken to his head would have the effect of slowing his decision-making or causing him to be more tentative and perhaps confused in certain situations (ie. high-pressure). am i just reading your comment incorrectly?

 

[froropmkr72]

how can you say in one breath that it's absurd to think that falk's head injuries are to blame for his performance and in the very next say that he's just not seeing things as quickly as he needs to? as if the one can't possibly have something to do with the other.

it may not be strictly speaking a physiological connection (like his injuries have caused diminished brain function or something), but it's not remotely absurd to suggest that the kinds of hits he's taken to his head would have the effect of slowing his decision-making or causing him to be more tentative and perhaps confused in certain situations (ie. high-pressure). am i just reading your comment incorrectly?

I think Falk's just missing confidance in his receivers downfield. Tyler knows it, here's about on the sideline all the time and is confidant he can make those completions. The receivers who have been wide open downfield at times aren't going to say anything to Falk or Leach, but Tyler might here about it.

 

[CougPatrol]

how can you say in one breath that it's absurd to think that falk's head injuries are to blame for his performance and in the very next say that he's just not seeing things as quickly as he needs to?

Because the fact that he's not playing well has nothing do with neurological issues.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Not picking on ED here, as he's not the only poster to suggest that Falk's head injuries are to blame for his performance, but I think that's absurd. He's just not seeing things as quickly as he needs to; trying to be too perfect, as Leach suggested.

If anything, I think Falk's maybe guilty of being a little cocky. Waiting for the perfect route or the perfect play, instead of just reading and reacting like he used to.

Falk is one of the only QBs I've seen that when he gets significantly more time to throw, the probability of him connecting on a decent pass play drops off drastically. It's amazing. I get very nervous when he has much more than ~5 seconds to throw the ball.

 

[avabob1]

I have speculated on cumulative head injuries too, but something else just occurred to me. Any chance Falk has lost something in arm strength, and has lost confidence in his ability to make some throws. He never had a gun to begin with, so even a small drop off could make arm strength an issue.

 

[fingerdisco]

I have speculated on cumulative head injuries too, but something else just occurred to me. Any chance Falk has lost something in arm strength, and has lost confidence in his ability to make some throws. He never had a gun to begin with, so even a small drop off could make arm strength an issue.

I hope not, because if arm strength is an issue where he's only required to throw 5-10 yards downfield (typically), then he should technically be considered disabled and not playing QB

 

[Fab5Coug]

Hecules is a smaller version of Keith Millard. Insanely quick off the ball, always in the backfield, sideline to sideline player. He is also starting to demonstrate Millard's gas tank too.

Luke Falk -- brain injury!!! C'mon Ed, if he had one, wouldn't it be discernable clinically? If it was, he'd be on the sideline. If, and that is a big IF, it was the start of something like CTE, it wouldn't effect performance for years. Luke has a mental inpairment -- it is apprehension and a lack of confidence making the tough throw. It is a condition that thousand of QBs have or develop. It is what differentiates good QBs from the ordinary. It turned Jeff Tuel from a very promising freshman/sophamore to indecisive game manager as a senior.

He didn't say Falk had a brain injury or CTE. Just said he hasn't "recovered" from some pretty drastic hits he took earlier in his career. Could just mean those hits are still in the back of his mind and making him tentative.

 

[CPtheCoug]

He's just doing what thousands of QB's have done before him, and thousands will do after him. He is OVERTHINKING. He's trying to make the perfect play, and coupled with his anxiety of getting hit so many times, causes him to just dump the ball of.

Its like his thought process is like this "Hike! - Mesh Not Open - Sideline Covered - Oh crap dump it off" ...like every play. He looks away before the play is fully developed in front of him.

 

[CougPatrol]

I have speculated on cumulative head injuries too, but something else just occurred to me. Any chance Falk has lost something in arm strength, and has lost confidence in his ability to make some throws. He never had a gun to begin with, so even a small drop off could make arm strength an issue.

I've considered that too, but then I go back to Leach. He just doesn't seem like the type of coach who would look the other way if that happened. Go through Spring and Fall ball and name Falk the starter, even though Hilinski has outplayed him and possesses significantly better physical skills.

Nobody who covers WSU suggested that Hilinski was pressing Falk for time this offseason, or that we have this young phenom waiting in the wings for his shot. We were all optimistic about Tyler's potential, but 3 weeks ago, the thought of benching Falk would have been laughed out of the room.

For now, I'm sticking with the more simple analysis that Falk just hasn't played up to his potential yet. Maybe he's pressing? Maybe the Heisman talk weighed on him? I've seen Russell Wilson lay some eggs. I've seen a lot of good QBs string some turd games together.

And lets also consider this. Maybe Boise State has a really good defense. I know we're all P5 conference elitists to a point, but is it a stretch to say that Boise State is as good or better than Oregon State, Colorado, Oregon, Utah, Cal, Arizona, ASU, UCLA? Would you bet your life savings that those teams would beat Boise State? I wouldn't.

 

[avabob1]

With arm strength it is not the length, but how quickly the ball gets there. Also accuracy can be impacted.

All speculation on my part anyway. Also, I agree it would show up in practice if the arm had become a significant issue.

 

[brettcraycraft51]

Because the fact that he's not playing well has nothing do with neurological issues.

(a) this is a pretty confident statement about what is ultimately an open question at this point (re: the immediate and long-term effects of traumatic head injuries. the sheer volume of ongoing research on the issue indicates that the experts aren't sure at this point what the possible effects are.

(b) neurological issues are not the only possible or even likely outcomes of traumatic head injuries that could have any number of effects on his performance.

 

[CougPatrol]

(a) this is a pretty confident statement about what is ultimately an open question at this point (re: the immediate and long-term effects of traumatic head injuries. the sheer volume of ongoing research on the issue indicates that the experts aren't sure at this point what the possible effects are.

(b) neurological issues are not the only possible or even likely outcomes of traumatic head injuries that could have any number of effects on his performance.

Perhaps, but then I go back to my last post. Why did Luke so clearly outperform Tyler during Spring and Fall camp? Why would Leach start someone who is not thinking clearly, seems foggy, and isn't capable of performing at this level anymore? Foggy headed Falk completed 33 of 39 passes in the opener.

I think we just played a Boise State team that would be more than capable of competing for a top-4 position in the P12 conference. After USC, UW, and Stanford, what other P12 team would you guarantee would have beaten Boise State last weekend?

 

[brettcraycraft51]

Perhaps, but then I go back to my last post. Why did Luke so clearly outperform Tyler during Spring and Fall camp? Why would Leach start someone who is not thinking clearly, seems foggy, and isn't capable of performing at this level anymore? Foggy headed Falk completed 33 of 39 passes in the opener.

I think we just played a Boise State team that would be more than capable of competing for a top-4 position in the P12 conference. After USC, UW, and Stanford, what other P12 team would you guarantee would have beaten Boise State last weekend?

yeah, obviously whatever it is that's causing the issues is a combination of factors. i have no idea if it's the injury deal or not, i just think it's a distinct possibility.

and you're right that, other than the obvious qb issues, bsu is a good team that is likely to have a good season, especially if cozart is given the keys for the rest of it. that was a high-pressure game for the cougs, and, even though the offense looked constipated for most of it, they really did show something pulling it out. my general attitude has improved significantly as the days have gone by since saturday.

 

[CougEd]

Perhaps, but then I go back to my last post. Why did Luke so clearly outperform Tyler during Spring and Fall camp? Why would Leach start someone who is not thinking clearly, seems foggy, and isn't capable of performing at this level anymore? Foggy headed Falk completed 33 of 39 passes in the opener.

I think we just played a Boise State team that would be more than capable of competing for a top-4 position in the P12 conference. After USC, UW, and Stanford, what other P12 team would you guarantee would have beaten Boise State last weekend?

In terms of spring and fall ball, don't the QB's where yellow? Do they really take any hits?

Second, is the scout team playing the BYU game plan of dropping 8? In 2015 Luke Falk played as well as any qb we have had. He won at least two games on the last drive and their may have been a third game. Why after the two vicious hits has he really not looked like he same player? Take his last five games. CU, UW, Minn, Montana State and Boise. Does he look like the elite QB he was in 2015? Is it Cracraft and his knowledge how to work a zone?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Perhaps, but then I go back to my last post. Why did Luke so clearly outperform Tyler during Spring and Fall camp? Why would Leach start someone who is not thinking clearly, seems foggy, and isn't capable of performing at this level anymore? Foggy headed Falk completed 33 of 39 passes in the opener.

I think we just played a Boise State team that would be more than capable of competing for a top-4 position in the P12 conference. After USC, UW, and Stanford, what other P12 team would you guarantee would have beaten Boise State last weekend?

This is a good point. Yes, Falk has looked a bit lackluster for 5 straight games. But heck, who wouldn't struggle facing 10 win Colorado, 12 win UW, 9 win Minnesota & 10 win (last year) Boise St?

When was the last time anyone had a string of playing possibly four 9+ win teams in a 5 game stretch?

 

[Fab5Coug]

In terms of spring and fall ball, don't the QB's where yellow? Do they really take any hits?

Second, is the scout team playing the BYU game plan of dropping 8? In 2015 Luke Falk played as well as any qb we have had. He won at least two games on the last drive and their may have been a third game. Why after the two vicious hits has he really not looked like he same player? Take his last five games. CU, UW, Minn, Montana State and Boise. Does he look like the elite QB he was in 2015? Is it Cracraft and his knowledge how to work a zone?

Reiterating the point I just made; would any QB look elite facing those 4 teams in a 5 game stretch? That would be a brutal stretch of games in the middle of a season.

Something tells me things could look a little different after we get Oregon St & Nevada.

 

[CougPatrol]

This is a good point. Yes, Falk has looked a bit lackluster for 5 straight games. But heck, who wouldn't struggle facing 10 win Colorado, 12 win UW, 9 win Minnesota & 10 win (last year) Boise St?

When was the last time anyone had a string of playing possibly four 9+ win teams in a 5 game stretch?

That's where I'm at with the analysis. WSU is a good team, but we're not elite yet. Those games you referenced were against The P12 South champs on the road (and we were competitive), The P12 champs and CFP representative, a Big 12 bowl team, and a 10-win Boise State team that beat us last season.

What's wrong with WSU? What's wrong with Falk? Probably just the fact that WSU is an 8 win team that flirts with the top-20, but isn't a world beater. We lost to Eastern and Boise State last season. We had to mount a Boise-esque comeback against Oregon State. We barely hung on at home against UCLA.

I guess I'm just more easy to please than some fans. I love where our program is right now. We're not perfect, but we win a lot. If we don't play well, we can lose to anyone. That was the rub on Mike Leach when we hired him, and guess what? It's holding true. We're an air raid team that doesn't blow the opposition off the ball. When the QB isn't perfect. When the receivers aren't clicking. When we play behind the chains, we become mediocre.

 

[CougEd]

Reiterating the point I just made; would any QB look elite facing those 4 teams in a 5 game stretch? That would be a brutal stretch of games in the middle of a season.

Something tells me things could look a little different after we get Oregon St & Nevada.

Hmmm...you think Boise and Minnesota are elite? I would expect WSU to be competent offensively against CU. I would think Leach believes he can hang 35 on anyone.

 

[CougPatrol]

In 2015 Luke Falk played as well as any qb we have had. He won at least two games on the last drive and their may have been a third game. Why after the two vicious hits has he really not looked like he same player? Take his last five games. CU, UW, Minn, Montana State and Boise. Does he look like the elite QB he was in 2015? Is it Cracraft and his knowledge how to work a zone?

I think it's more logical to say that after some of the vicious hits he's taken he's developed a case of the jitters, as opposed to signaling that it's due to brain trauma.

Did he look like an elite QB against the following?

• A road game vs. the P12 South Champs
• Against the P12 champs and CFP Huskies
• Against a solid Big-10 bowl team, the best conference in the Nation last year IMO.
• He was 33-39 against MSU, so I'm not criticizing that performance.
• Against a Boise State team that won 10 games and beat us last year.

No, he didn't look elite against those teams, but that can be attributed as much to the fact that they overmatched our offensive line than by simply saying Falk didn't get it done.

I've always liked Luke, but I've never viewed him as an athletically elite QB. He's a system QB with great poise. When we're clicking, he's as good of a game manager as there is. When we're not clicking, he doesn't look good. That was true in 2015, the "pre-head trauma" years as well. Mediocre performances against Portland State, Wyoming, Cal, Colorado, UW, and Miami, Fla in the bowl game.

So what's wrong with Luke Falk in 2017? I say nothing. He was 33-39 against Boise State, and he struggled against a good Boise State team who got after our entire offense for 3 quarters last Saturday.

To quote the late Dennis Green...."Luke Falk is who we thought he was!"

 

[CougPatrol]

Hmmm...you think Boise and Minnesota are elite? I would expect WSU to be competent offensively against CU. I would think Leach believes he can hang 35 on anyone.

No, I think Luke Falk is a system QB. A game manager. If WSU doesn't play well, he doesn't play well. And I absolutely think that Minnesota and Boise State are at least equally matched to WSU. We are an 8 win program, not a CFP contender.

 

[CougEd]

No, I think Luke Falk is a system QB. A game manager. If WSU doesn't play well, he doesn't play well. And I absolutely think that Minnesota and Boise State are at least equally matched to WSU. We are an 8 win program, not a CFP contender.

Where I disagree is Boise isn't the Peterson Boise. Minnesota is a perennial 6-6 team, if that, in a fairly weak at time Big 10.

 

[CougEd]

I think it's more logical to say that after some of the vicious hits he's taken he's developed a case of the jitters, as opposed to signaling that it's due to brain trauma.

Did he look like an elite QB against the following?

• A road game vs. the P12 South Champs
• Against the P12 champs and CFP Huskies
• Against a solid Big-10 bowl team, the best conference in the Nation last year IMO.
• He was 33-39 against MSU, so I'm not criticizing that performance.
• Against a Boise State team that won 10 games and beat us last year.

No, he didn't look elite against those teams, but that can be attributed as much to the fact that they overmatched our offensive line than by simply saying Falk didn't get it done.

I've always liked Luke, but I've never viewed him as an athletically elite QB. He's a system QB with great poise. When we're clicking, he's as good of a game manager as there is. When we're not clicking, he doesn't look good. That was true in 2015, the "pre-head trauma" years as well. Mediocre performances against Portland State, Wyoming, Cal, Colorado, UW, and Miami, Fla in the bowl game.

So what's wrong with Luke Falk in 2017? I say nothing. He was 33-39 against Boise State, and he struggled against a good Boise State team who got after our entire offense for 3 quarters last Saturday.

To quote the late Dennis Green...."Luke Falk is who we thought he was!"

Ummm....I am not sure I wrote he had brain trauma. Easily be the jitters. If someone told me he somehow passed concussion protocol but he still had a concussion I wouldn't be surprised. If in years if someone told me he had some sort of extremely minor trauma that manifests self in a different way, I wouldn't be totally surprised either. But no where in my post do I believe I said he suffered brain trauma.

 

[CougPatrol]

Ummm....I am not sure I wrote he had brain trauma. Easily be the jitters. If someone told me he somehow passed concussion protocol but he still had a concussion I wouldn't be surprised. If in years if someone told me he had some sort of extremely minor trauma that manifests self in a different way, I wouldn't be totally surprised either. But no where in my post do I believe I said he suffered brain trauma.

But he had the same types of lack-luster games in 2015 & 2016.

 

[CougPatrol]

Where I disagree is Boise isn't the Peterson Boise. Minnesota is a perennial 6-6 team, if that, in a fairly weak at time Big 10.

Minnesota was comparable to us last year, and the Big-10 was not weak.

 

[CougPatrol]

Where I disagree is Boise isn't the Peterson Boise.

Boise beat us last season, and was certainly not outclassed by us on Saturday. Do you objectively think that WSU will just show up and roll past any 10-win program every time they take the field? If so, what's given you that impression?

vs. Miami, Fla?
vs. Minnesota?
vs. Boise 2016, 2017
vs. Rutgers 2015
vs. Portland St. 2015
vs. Wyoming 2015
vs. Oregon State 2016

I'm sure there are more examples, but these are what come to mind. My point is, why are people suddenly acting like Luke isn't the Luke of old? He's had games like the recent Boise game many times before.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Where I disagree is Boise isn't the Peterson Boise. Minnesota is a perennial 6-6 team, if that, in a fairly weak at time Big 10.

Ed, when you are talking about Minnesota, you may want to actually check before you talk smack. The last four years........

2016: 9-4
2015: 6-7
2014: 8-5
2013: 8-5

They had a pretty decent team last year (and in the past four years) even if that doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[dgibbons]

Minnesota was comparable to us last year, and the Big-10 was not weak.

You are well aware that Ed cannot be bothered by things like facts.

 

[Coug90]

Almost assuredly will go pro.

Seriously doubt it. As disruptive as he is he's a 250 lb D Lineman who plays at Wazzu. He would certainly have an opportunity to make a team, but he absolutely improves his draft stock and earning potential by returning for his senior year. I would bet the farm he is back next year, trying to get an extra 15-20 lbs on his frame that would make him a viable NFL end.

 

[fingerdisco]

Seriously doubt it. As disruptive as he is he's a 250 lb D Lineman who plays at Wazzu. He would certainly have an opportunity to make a team, but he absolutely improves his draft stock and earning potential by returning for his senior year. I would bet the farm he is back next year, trying to get an extra 15-20 lbs on his frame that would make him a viable NFL end.

I could see him being drafted as a LB; he's not dissimilar to bruschi body size-wise and that's where he ended up in the pros.

 

[CougPatrol]

You are well aware that Ed cannot be bothered by things like facts.

I didn't think suggesting that WSU and Minnesota were comparable was an outlandish statement. I mean, I figured that's why the Holiday Bowl matched us up.

 

[CougPatrol]

Ummm....I am not sure I wrote he had brain trauma.

A concussion is brain trauma. You said that Falk hasn't been the same since suffering those hits, so I figured that's what you were inferring.

I'm getting redundant now, but I've seen the Falk we saw last Saturday several times before, and not just against good opponents. We have a boutique offense with a lot of moving pieces. Sometimes it doesn't click. I'm not ready to bench him yet because I've also seen him bounce back and lead us to many great wins.

If he struggles against Oregon State and Nevada, then we have to look at plan B. Until then, you start your senior QB.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Hmmm...you think Boise and Minnesota are elite? I would expect WSU to be competent offensively against CU. I would think Leach believes he can hang 35 on anyone.

I didn't say they were elite.

And I'm sure Leach believes he can hang 50 on anyone. That doesn't mean it happens though.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Where I disagree is Boise isn't the Peterson Boise. Minnesota is a perennial 6-6 team, if that, in a fairly weak at time Big 10.

No, Boise is not the Peterson Boise team anymore. Those teams would've handled us with ease on Saturday.

And you should check Minnesota's records the last several years. They have not been a perennial 6-6 team lately. And even if they were, that doesn't change what they were last year, which was a 9 win team.

 

[425cougfan]

Minnesota was comparable to us last year, and the Big-10 was not weak.

Minnesota was 9-4 and the 21st-ranked scoring defense in the country last year. Dismissing them as a "6-6 team" is disingenuous. Ed's earlier comment, saying he expected us to score against CU, also reflects a pretty high standard -- CU with Leavitt was a very good defense, especially against the pass, and was 20th in scoring defense. As for UW, we all know how good they were.

In any case, I think this weekend against Oregon State will tell us a lot. If Luke has some pervasive issues, he'll likely be unable to have a very good game even against Oregon State (which, despite its faults, still has some Pac-12 athletes ... it's not like either Reilly or Andersen let things get to a Wulff-type level in terms of talent acquisition).