Hercules M..
- Thread starter ElComanche
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Sometimes history rhymes. Herc is most similar to Keith Millard in coug lore, and now he's going to the same team
going to a top 3 defense... not sure that bodes well for him making a 53 man roster, and frankly not sure why they would take him unless they plan on dumping some contracts shortly. I'm not familiar with their situation so I'll have to do some research.
How was he going to improve his position in school? I'll often ping a kid for going before he should, but could Herc have done anything on the field in one more year that would have suddenly made him a first three rounds choice? I suspect he'd be in this boat next year. I'd still love to have him, but the notion that another year at WSU would've improved his draft outlook is questionable, at best. He's a productive 'tweener, and now because of that he'll have to prove himself all over again. Padding the resume' wouldn't have changed anything
I agree that there wasn’t much more he could do on the field to improve his draft stock. I hope that he’s real close to finishing his degree.
I thought I'd read the coaches were going to let him move around on the Defense this year to get him some film playing positions the NFL was going to project him playing. Maybe some inside linebacker or more of a DE than DT. I suppose that could have helped if he'd done well at those positions.
One thing we all have to keep in mind is that being great in College does not automatically mean you will be great, or even make it, in the NFL. Or NBA, Or MLB.
If he came back and was allowed flexibility to play more of a hybrid position and not always have a hand on the ground, he would have improved his draft status. He may not be capable of doing that very well which means his draft status would not change and is about right, but that move alone proving he could play in a different way clearly would have changed his NFL label.
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It's got nothing to do with how it would have improved his draft rating.......cuz he didn't get drafted. If he gets on a roster through free agency, leaving early was still the right thing to do. If he's on a practice squad or, worse yet, left out completely, how can you argue that this was a good decision for him to make? I get that he might not really be enjoying going to classes but he will never get a chance to spend that final year in college as a senior now. He could have ended up being the guy who made a difference for his alma mater and leading us to a better finish. Instead, if he doesn't make a roster, he is invisible to the world and getting ready to head into life a year early. If he truly loves football, playing in games that matter to someone is better than being on a practice squad or unemployed and hoping that his college education is far enough along to get him where he wants to be.
I don't begrudge him making the choice to leave WSU and I hope he makes a roster, but let's not pretend that he had to leave because there was no reason for him to be back at WSU.
I don’t remember seeing that (which means nothing more than I don’t remember seeing that).
He was listed at 6-2, 252 last season. His weight was 255 and 242 the previous two seasons. I don’t see him getting much bigger.
He’s a tweener by NFL standards. Incredibly explosive off the ball, but still a tweener.
Hindsight is indeed 20/20.
Another year:
A chance to add another set of all-league honors and accolades, garnering more attention.
A chance to make sure that degree is in hand.
Possible chance to show a little more versatility. Coaches aren't going to change positions just for his draft status, but I could see them moving him around situationally. It does not hurt your recruiting to get your players drafted.
Possible chance to mature a little physically. Weight, speed, whatever.
I can see a coach saying that, but suspect that was lip service and an enticement to get him to stay another year. Given our depth on the D-line, once the season starts and coaching decisions make the difference between W's and L's, it's really difficult to envision coaches taking their most disruptive/successful/hard-to-block player on the D-line and experimenting with him in other spots.
If Herc doesn’t make the Vikings roster or practice squad, I bet he could put a nice career together in the CFL.
Average salary in the CFL is $80,000 per year. He'll be fine in the long run, but getting your body ruined for $80k per year isn't really that great of a deal.
Very few people do not gain weight as their body matures. He will get bigger. This is also a full time job now. He will have a lot more time working on his body than he had at WSU.
A couple of thoughts---if Destiny had an NFL body and had enough speed that the coaches thought he could play outside linebacker as a freshman didn't get drafted. Robert Barber who had NFL size and he didn't get drafted, why would anyone be surprised that a position-less NFL player wouldn't get drafted.
Hercules was very explosive in college. But when Peterson faced him he closed down the line gaps and made Hercules look ordinary.
A couple of things went against him in getting drafted at all. The first is lack of size to play DT in the league. But one would think someone would spend a 7th on him just to get him in and see if he could be a specialist. I think the NFL consciously punishes juniors who come out early and they are late round draft picks. I think they do it to dissuade future underclassmen. Unless you are a sure fire first round pick don't come out is the message.
I hope he makes a team. But I only really see two possible positions in the NFL, despite what Leach has said about him being able to play inside D line at the pro level. One possibility is DE...certainly a situational DE, and maybe an every down guy. The other possibility is some sort of ILB, ideally with a team that uses the traditional 4 man front with a true MLB. I think he is fast enough to cover a tight end when required, and otherwise his job is run stopping and blitzing, with some short zone coverage.
Regardless, if he had another season and some exposure to other positions, I think he would have been drafted this year. Now he is fighting to simply make a roster.
Regardless, if he had another season and some exposure to other positions, I think he would have been drafted this year. Now he is fighting to simply make a roster.
Hercules is an anomaly. His best position is inside at DT and it is clsoe. He becomes another guy at DE. He would collapse a pocket so quickly because of his quickness off the ball. I don't see him as a DE or a MLB. I saw him one time in coverage and he looked like a fish out of water.
Why do you keep saying this? You have said this inaccurate statement for 5 years & it’s still false.
Destiny had to play the Buck LB as a Frosh cause they needed to get the best athletes on the field to try & compete. That’s what good coaches do, they get their 11 best on the field. End of Story. Nobody thought that was going to be his ongoing position so why do you keep up this narrative?
" I think the NFL consciously punishes juniors who come out early and they are late round draft picks. I think they do it to dissuade future underclassmen. Unless you are a sure fire first round pick don't come out is the message."
Bingo there is no doubt that this is true. So much so that I would be willing to bet that if Herc finished his college eligibility and put up similar numbers his senior year he would have been drafted. The NFL is not going to give even the slightest indication that they want to encourage these type players that are not sure to make a roster to come out early. The sooner that the players and their advisors understand this the better.
This is how Ed rolls. It was two games against Auburn and USC his sophomore year.
Because he's a bitter Wulff lover. He's always been a bitter Wulff lover, and he always will be. I honestly think he likes the Huskies and hates the cougs and wants the team to be bad and is basically a Dick Baird "fan" Basically somebody who turned their back on WSU and enjoys it when we are bad (the Wulff years) and tries consistently to throw dirt on it when we are good (Leach years).
What CougEd doesn't want to admit is Leach is putting Cougs in the league. A lot of them and producing winning seasons.
Every player Leach recruits is "a disaster by all accounts" the classes "aren't getting better". "Leach isn't going to get it done" and other random bs from his poor genetic lineage. All of course have been proven wrong over and over and over again.
No sure what the problem is with my statement. They didn't play him at OLB? Here was one headline " Vaeao works with WSU's No. 1 defense at 'buck' linebacker " Was that inaccurate? Sure seems like Breske and Leach thought he played at the linebacker position. Maybe I am missing something?
No where did I say how many snaps Destiny played at OLB, or that was his natural position, nor did I ever comment if that was a permanent position. All I said is the coaches felt he was athletic enough and had enough speed to play OLB.
So let me rewrite it for you so you and Dgibs have a clearer understanding. Why would we think an undersized Hercules would get drafted when a 290 pound Destiny who had enough speed and athleticism to play outside linebacker for several games of the 2013 in order to get the best players on the field did not get drafted?
Now the key isn't whether he played two games at OLB, but he had enough speed and athleticism for the coaches to move him to OLB to get him on the field.
The point you don't get...and for some reason you have a problem is that it was a true statement. He did play OLB. Also what you don't get is saying he had enough speed and athleticism to play OLB even if it was for two games is a compliment to the player...so I have zero idea what that bothers you so much.
Wow...when did I ever say he wouldn't get it done? I didn't remember EVER entertaining the thought of a new coach like YOU did when we lost to PSU whose defense was coordinated by a guy Paul Wulff fired. I stayed the course and remembered what the Tech fan said the day we hired Leach...he will win games he has no business winning and he will lose games he has no business losing.
Only time Paul Wulff gets mentioned on this board is when you and several others mention him. Wulff is long gone and I don't even follow him. To me-despite what happened on the field, despite his disastrous interview and public outcries, he is a Coug and gave what he had to the program.
As for your comment about recruiting, I thought Leach's 2012 and 2013 classes were really good. Gauta was as good as any JC recruited lineman we have ever seen on campus, including Dwayne Sanders. Gauta was that good as a junior. Eukale, Madison, Sorenson, Barber, Destiny just to name a few were exceptional recruits.
There is no question based on information at hand that 2014's class (as it can be evaluated now) was not nearly as good in production as 12 and 13. And the 2015 class does not appear to have the talent on the defensive line that 12 or 13 had. That means you have two classes that don't have that big body and maybe as important a big body with any Pac 12 experience.
So I know you have a problem with me saying 2014 was a disaster. It was. Just as 2011 was a disaster, and 1994 was a disaster (and that may have been the highest rated class in school history).
I hear what you are saying about the 2014 class. They could have used up all their eligibility if they didn't redshirt (like Luvu) or left early like Hercules. So in that class you have Hercules (outstanding player), Luvu ( a really good and productive Pac 12 player), Fernandez ( played really sparingly last year) and Harrington (special teams player last two years).
So the rest of the class---Canty, Ware, Singleton, Porter, Canada, Evers, Krepsz, Griffin, Green, Andre, Hoyd, Bender, and Hameed. How many of those players have we seen play the last two years?
If your argument is they were properly evaluated and it didn't work out, fine, but a class that has basically two players that were heavy contributors, and two part time players is not nearly as good as 2012 and 2013 and by all accounts a disaster.
We will see what 2016 17 and 18 bring us. BTW, coaches don't always get good classes. Things happen. Happened to Walden, Price, Bruce Snyder, Don James, and Mike Riley. Not every recruiting class will pan out.
Nah. I don't always agree with Ed but he's definitely a Coug unless it's been a 20 to 25 year act on these boards.
When I suggested this guy must be Buddha mature...he flipped me off.
https://northwestfootball****tards.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/angry-fetters.jpg
It was part of the game plan, yes. They planned not to let Hercules jump the gap and he was made to look normal in that game.
Mata'afa was ejected early in the second half of the AC, but don't let that fact get in the way of E.D.'s purple-stained narrative. He is, after all, a husky dad, so ...
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You're right to some extent, but he's more a whiny-assed Coug than anything else. He invented pissing and moaning.
Ed's a true believer and once bought the premium edition of THE PLAN - the version that had the Paul Wulff centerfold with the scratch and sniff.
Some of the others though it has to be either a case of Tertiary Wulfflis or their Waldenheimers kicking in when they get angry and deny loving 9-40 football.
Some of the others though it has to be either a case of Tertiary Wulfflis or their Waldenheimers kicking in when they get angry and deny loving 9-40 football.
So all the other coaches were too stupid to figure out that simple adjustment? Even Whittingham? Astonishing.
Well you are using Whittingham as an example ? Not sure he has put together an offensive game plan to date .
But I will bite . What caused a top flight dlineman not to get a sniff in the draft and what happened in UW game to neutralize him or did he just have a bad game ?
So, you continue to diss a Cougar great, but you once hailed a 5-8 linebacker as the greatest thing since Mark Fields because he looked soooo good against a husky offense without its starting QB. Nice. Who gets first shot at you tonight - Wulff or Peterson?
