ADVERTISEMENT

Is 27th ranking acceptable for next year?

Athlon puts us at 27. I don't see it. For me that is a disappointment.

That would be a severe step back.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/washington-state-football-cougars-prediction-preview-2019
Given our traditional treatment by the media, our lack of clarity at QB, lack of returning depth in the backfield, and holes that need to be filled on D, I'm surprised to see us picked that high.

In reality, if Gubrud, Gordon, or Tinsley can give 75% of what Minshew did, we should have a shot at the North and we'll be in a 5th straight bowl.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cr8zyncalif
Gonna agree with 95coug. Given our history (both on the field and with the media), losing an NFL QB, a starting running back that's currently on an NFL roster, a first round offensive lineman, and half our defensive starters, it's a testament to how things have changed that Athlon has us at 27th. College Football News has us much lower than that but they acknowledge that given our performance in the past four years, they won't be surprised to see us impress again.

We have a lot of good pieces in place, but realistically, I'm going to be happy with a bowl appearance this year. Anything else is gravy. I have hopes that Gubrud shocks the world the way that Minshew did and gets us to double digit wins again of course.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TZCoug84
Gonna agree with 95coug. Given our history (both on the field and with the media), losing an NFL QB, a starting running back that's currently on an NFL roster, a first round offensive lineman, and half our defensive starters, it's a testament to how things have changed that Athlon has us at 27th. College Football News has us much lower than that but they acknowledge that given our performance in the past four years, they won't be surprised to see us impress again.

We have a lot of good pieces in place, but realistically, I'm going to be happy with a bowl appearance this year. Anything else is gravy. I have hopes that Gubrud shocks the world the way that Minshew did and gets us to double digit wins again of course.

Mentally weak, demand more. I won’t be happy with anything less than a 10 win season.
 
When doesn't the media undersell the Cougs? Other teams replace players, more players than the Cougs. Yet, it is the Cougars that take a step back.
 
They know how special Gardner was last year. Special Doesn't Strike back-to-back.

There's gonna be a learning curve in 2019.
 
When doesn't the media undersell the Cougs? Other teams replace players, more players than the Cougs. Yet, it is the Cougars that take a step back.

I was going to say - have we ever been ranked in the preseason by anyone, regardless of the state of our program? Preseason 2002 maybe? Now that said, I'm pretty sure we are still in ESPN's top 25.

Even now,with the consistent legitimacy that we have with CML, the Cougs are always expected to suck. Embrace it, I say.
 
A top-30 pre-season ranking, for 90% of P5 schools is great. It says you should be a lock for a bowl game, but could be better, or could be worse. If I were a coach, I'd be fine with that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: WASH ST A&M FAN
If the CFP committee - the supposed clearinghouse of credibility - picks the good ol' boys every year no matter what they do on the field, you'd better believe WSU isn't even in the box on the Athlon Top 25 jigsaw puzzle.

Having said that, WSU finishing in the Top 10 as we did this year is an anomaly until it's not. The schools that get to play with a negative golf handicap (Michigan/tOSU, Texas/UO, the entire SEC) get to to enjoy that because of successful historical runs they had. It's not fair but neither is life.
 
Which is 10+ wins. This is the best team we’ve had coming back in 16 years.
I'd argue that - at least on paper - we had a better team coming back in 2017. Falk as a senior, Morrow, Wicks, and Williams. Solid receiving corps and OL. Questions on D were probably pretty similar to this year. That team was significantly undermined by the regression of Falk, compounded by his injury, and by the D's inability to outside contain.

Not having a clear-cut QB automatically creates significant questions about this year's offense, and that's magnified by having only one returning player who's ever taken a college handoff. This could easily end up being a very good returning team, but the question marks that remain are too big.
 
If the CFP committee - the supposed clearinghouse of credibility - picks the good ol' boys every year no matter what they do on the field, you'd better believe WSU isn't even in the box on the Athlon Top 25 jigsaw puzzle.

Having said that, WSU finishing in the Top 10 as we did this year is an anomaly until it's not. The schools that get to play with a negative golf handicap (Michigan/tOSU, Texas/UO, the entire SEC) get to to enjoy that because of successful historical runs they had. It's not fair but neither is life.
Can’t argue with that, it just sucks that we’re handicapped with the requirement of clawing our way up the ranks, with any loss being validation that we don’t belong and which sends us tumbling down the ranks only to have to claw our way back up; conversely, the blue bloods get placed at the top—deservedly or not—and any loss is looked at as an anomaly until there are enough of them that they simply can’t remain ranked highly without the voters risking looking like complete frauds. But as you say, there’s no fairness in life or football.
 
  • Like
Reactions: taf88
Can’t argue with that, it just sucks that we’re handicapped with the requirement of clawing our way up the ranks, with any loss being validation that we don’t belong and which sends us tumbling down the ranks only to have to claw our way back up; conversely, the blue bloods get placed at the top—deservedly or not—and any loss is looked at as an anomaly until there are enough of them that they simply can’t remain ranked highly without the voters risking looking like complete frauds. But as you say, there’s no fairness in life or football.

Well put. And when we start the season with a couple of patsies, we aren't moving up until after playing 3 or 4 or 5 games. And as you say, gawd forbid we stumble early against said patsies.

As far as having a new QB - you'd think after all his years of plug and play "system" QB's, CML would get some cred for being able to put someone in there that will do just fine. Oh well. Just another day of being a Coug.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CrimsonDisciple
Problem is, at the beginning of the season, everyone plays patsies so it's hard to move up. If we don't start the season ranked, it'll be hard to rank us in the top 25 until after the Houston game.

I'm hoping the Leach machine gets factored in here rather than program history. Once he gets rolling, Leach will crank out 8+ wins a year regardless. Consistency has to be worth something to voters. I just want to be ranked at the start of the year so recruits see our name in the top 25 each week.

Well put. And when we start the season with a couple of patsies, we aren't moving up until after playing 3 or 4 or 5 games. And as you say, gawd forbid we stumble early against said patsies.

As far as having a new QB - you'd think after all his years of plug and play "system" QB's, CML would get some cred for being able to put someone in there that will do just fine. Oh well. Just another day of being a Coug.
 
A top-30 pre-season ranking, for 90% of P5 schools is great. It says you should be a lock for a bowl game, but could be better, or could be worse. If I were a coach, I'd be fine with that.
the only prereq for going to a bowl game is having a pulse. How many are there now? 40? 45?
 
Problem is, at the beginning of the season, everyone plays patsies so it's hard to move up. If we don't start the season ranked, it'll be hard to rank us in the top 25 until after the Houston game.

I'm hoping the Leach machine gets factored in here rather than program history. Once he gets rolling, Leach will crank out 8+ wins a year regardless. Consistency has to be worth something to voters. I just want to be ranked at the start of the year so recruits see our name in the top 25 each week.

Unless you're in the SEC. One game winning streak = top 25 ranking.
 
Athlon puts us at 27. I don't see it. For me that is a disappointment.

That would be a severe step back.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/washington-state-football-cougars-prediction-preview-2019

I'm ok with that ranking within the context of who we are and how these things usually go.

What I usually have issues with is who they put in front of us.

Putting ISU at 24 is a joke. Not sure why the nation is sucking Campbell's johnson so hard, but they haven't really accomplished anything yet besides not being completely terrible as they usually are. Kudos to him for turning that program around, but 24 is putting the cart in front of the horse, ESPECIALLY given that they lost their two biggest playmakers on offense. Butler's pure talent made up for a ton of mediocre passes thrown his way.

The overall stacking of B10/B12 teams in the top 25 is laughable as well. While the P12 is just garbage lately, the B10/12 have been underperforming top to bottom for years.

P12: Oregon, Utah, and the mutts. No love for David Shaw, who just gets it done year in and year out? I don't have an issue with these teams being in the top 25 per se, but Oregon is way too high in the rankings.
 
I'm ok with that ranking within the context of who we are and how these things usually go.

What I usually have issues with is who they put in front of us.

Putting ISU at 24 is a joke. Not sure why the nation is sucking Campbell johnson so hard, but they haven't really accomplished anything yet besides not being completely terrible as they usually are. Kudos to him for turning that program around, but 24 is putting the cart in front of the horse, ESPECIALLY given that they lost their two biggest playmakers on offense. Butler's pure talent made up for a ton of mediocre passes thrown his way.

The overall stacking of B10/B12 teams in the top 25 is laughable as well. While the P12 is just garbage lately, the B10/12 have been underperforming top to bottom for years.

P12: Oregon, Utah, and the mutts. No love for David Shaw, who just gets it done year in and year out? I don't have an issue with these teams being in the top 25 per se, but Oregon is way too high in the rankings.

Outside of Alabama, and recently Georgia a bit, the SEC is nothing special.
 
Problem is, at the beginning of the season, everyone plays patsies so it's hard to move up. If we don't start the season ranked, it'll be hard to rank us in the top 25 until after the Houston game.

I'm hoping the Leach machine gets factored in here rather than program history. Once he gets rolling, Leach will crank out 8+ wins a year regardless. Consistency has to be worth something to voters. I just want to be ranked at the start of the year so recruits see our name in the top 25 each week.
Houston has enough recent success and credibility that I think if we beat them - on the road - and start 3-0, we enter the rankings. We'll get no credit for winning the first 2 games, but Houston will mean something, and there are always a couple teams in the bottom half of the preseason rankings that stumble early and fall out.

Houston could be a tough win though. Their offense could be strong - even without fully absorbing Holgorson's system - and they will test our secondary and our DL. This might be the first real test of what McDougle is going to do for us. Their defense is several steps behind their O, so this might turn into a track meet. Then again, every time I've thought that over the last couple years it's ended up being a low-scoring slugfest.
 
Houston has enough recent success and credibility that I think if we beat them - on the road - and start 3-0, we enter the rankings. We'll get no credit for winning the first 2 games, but Houston will mean something, and there are always a couple teams in the bottom half of the preseason rankings that stumble early and fall out.

Houston could be a tough win though. Their offense could be strong - even without fully absorbing Holgorson's system - and they will test our secondary and our DL. This might be the first real test of what McDougle is going to do for us. Their defense is several steps behind their O, so this might turn into a track meet. Then again, every time I've thought that over the last couple years it's ended up being a low-scoring slugfest.
WSU players >>>> Houston players. Just like ISU. Comes down to if we can execute on the road. Our system is proven to win, especially vs lesser opponents. I'm not too worried about this unless Houston comes up with a wrinkle that manages to stymie whoever the starting qb is, but even then our hosses should be able to move them enough to produce a positive ground game.
 
Athlon puts us at 27. I don't see it. For me that is a disappointment.

That would be a severe step back.
https://athlonsports.com/college-football/washington-state-football-cougars-prediction-preview-2019

If Mike Price lost his heisman candidate qb, a first round left tackle , a light dline , and numerous players in the back end and a very emotional leader in pelluer he would have been picked 10th in the conference , so it looks to me there is a leach factor
 
WSU players >>>> Houston players. Just like ISU. Comes down to if we can execute on the road. Our system is proven to win, especially vs lesser opponents. I'm not too worried about this unless Houston comes up with a wrinkle that manages to stymie whoever the starting qb is, but even then our hosses should be able to move them enough to produce a positive ground game.
That's an interesting opinion, considering that we don't have a ground game, we have one RB who's a known quantity, and our OL has shown no consistent ability to open running lanes against anyone since about 2005.

Houston's DL has been anchored by a guy who just got drafted in the top 10, and they've got some solid performers returning in the front 7. I don't see anyone there to be too worried about individually, but they look to be at least average. Their corners are the glaring weakness, and there are some questions in the LB group, but they brought in some JC guys and transfers that might fill the gaps.
 
That's an interesting opinion, considering that we don't have a ground game, we have one RB who's a known quantity, and our OL has shown no consistent ability to open running lanes against anyone since about 2005.

Houston's DL has been anchored by a guy who just got drafted in the top 10, and they've got some solid performers returning in the front 7. I don't see anyone there to be too worried about individually, but they look to be at least average. Their corners are the glaring weakness, and there are some questions in the LB group, but they brought in some JC guys and transfers that might fill the gaps.
Up until last year we had QB's who refused to use the ground game. GM has been the first qb in the Leach tenure who didn't feel the need to call his own number just because he thought he had to be the man - he made real decisions based on game situations. I say this because our lack of a running game (stats wise)has been a symptom of a literal lack of a running game.

Going back two years, and getting rid of the garbage from the stat line (Falk/ TH sacks, GM's horrible average), our main RB's averaged 4.9 and 4.85 ypa. So yeah, I think we can move the ball against an average team.
 
I’m no expert, but I think if we win the P12N, we’ll be a highly ranked team heading into the conference championship in December regardless of where we’re ranked in August.

But that’s just me....
 
Higher ranking earlier in the season puts a spotlight on the program and gets the team more media coverage. This helps with recruiting, attendance, and donations as the general public perceives WSU to be better thanks to a higher rating. 13 days a year the team gets to prove it on the field. The other 352 days a year are about perception of how they will do.

I’m no expert, but I think if we win the P12N, we’ll be a highly ranked team heading into the conference championship in December regardless of where we’re ranked in August.

But that’s just me....
 
Higher ranking earlier in the season puts a spotlight on the program and gets the team more media coverage. This helps with recruiting, attendance, and donations as the general public perceives WSU to be better thanks to a higher rating. 13 days a year the team gets to prove it on the field. The other 352 days a year are about perception of how they will do.
Not to mention that teams that start out higher ranked almost always are ranked higher at the end of the season when two teams have the same record.

Biases always rear it's ugly head.
 
Well, any bias has to do with the abysmal performance of the P12 conference over the past few years. Our league has been pretty bad on the National stage, and honestly, I wouldn’t rank any team in the P12 higher than 15th.
 
Well, any bias has to do with the abysmal performance of the P12 conference over the past few years. Our league has been pretty bad on the National stage, and honestly, I wouldn’t rank any team in the P12 higher than 15th.
Then that makes it doubly bad. There is a bias against P12 teams and a bias against WSU.
 
P12: Oregon, Utah, and the mutts. No love for David Shaw, who just gets it done year in and year out? I don't have an issue with these teams being in the top 25 per se, but Oregon is way too high in the rankings.
You mention this... By many accounts on this thread, getting it done, year in and year out should place a program up somewhere, right? How many people on here are saying that's why we AREN'T in the top 25? But 'Furd is an example of the opposite, aren't they?

Consistency... There is none of it. Hate that.
 
You mention this... By many accounts on this thread, getting it done, year in and year out should place a program up somewhere, right? How many people on here are saying that's why we AREN'T in the top 25? But 'Furd is an example of the opposite, aren't they?

Consistency... There is none of it. Hate that.

These things are a marathon.....not a sprint. Last year was the first time that WSU finished with double digit wins in a generation. It was our first Top 10 finish since 2003. It's not like we're getting snubbed after years of extended, top level success. If you look at a team like Stanford, despite having gone 23-3 in the prior two years, the AP only had them at #21 in the 2012 preseason poll. Of course, they had a great year that year and the next. Just to prove how meaningless the rankings are, the Cardinal were ranked #11 in the 2014 preseason poll but finished 8-5 and unranked. They had earned a perennial Top 25 spot by virtue of multiple years of double digit win success.

Oregon's Nike money got them noticed, but until they had demonstrated stability, they got dropped like a hot potato whenever adversity struck. Leach is getting us to the point where we are being included in ESPN's preseason Top 20. Other outlets are showing us in the Top 25 or Top 30. WSU has spent decades failing just when we thought things were changing but Leach has been bucking that trend the past three years. Give it time, people.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chipdouglas
These things are a marathon.....not a sprint. Last year was the first time that WSU finished with double digit wins in a generation. It was our first Top 10 finish since 2003. It's not like we're getting snubbed after years of extended, top level success. If you look at a team like Stanford, despite having gone 23-3 in the prior two years, the AP only had them at #21 in the 2012 preseason poll. Of course, they had a great year that year and the next. Just to prove how meaningless the rankings are, the Cardinal were ranked #11 in the 2014 preseason poll but finished 8-5 and unranked. They had earned a perennial Top 25 spot by virtue of multiple years of double digit win success.

Oregon's Nike money got them noticed, but until they had demonstrated stability, they got dropped like a hot potato whenever adversity struck. Leach is getting us to the point where we are being included in ESPN's preseason Top 20. Other outlets are showing us in the Top 25 or Top 30. WSU has spent decades failing just when we thought things were changing but Leach has been bucking that trend the past three years. Give it time, people.
Here are #24's "marathon" times for the past 10 years...


2 2018 Big 12 8 5 0 .615 7.78 4.01 18 Matt Campbell (8-5) Alamo Bowl-L
3
2017 Big 12 8 5 0 .615 9.77 3.85 14 Matt Campbell (8-5) Liberty Bowl-W
4
2016 Big 12 3 9 0 .250 -4.43 1.65 Matt Campbell (3-9)
5 2015 Big 12 3 9 0 .250 -2.14 4.28 Paul Rhoads (3-9)
6 2014 Big 12 2 10 0 .167 -8.64 3.52 Paul Rhoads (2-10)
7 2013 Big 12 3 9 0 .250 -3.57 3.34 Paul Rhoads (3-9)
8 2012 Big 12 6 7 0 .462 5.40 5.48 Paul Rhoads (6-7) Liberty Bowl-L
9
2011 Big 12 6 7 0 .462 2.12 7.35 Paul Rhoads (6-7) Pinstripe Bowl-L
10
2010 Big 12 5 7 0 .417 0.43 4.27 Paul Rhoads (5-7)
11 2009 Big 12 7 6 0 .538 -0.96 -0.73 Paul Rhoads (7-6) Insight Bowl-W

It gets better if you go back another 10 years - several Wullfian seasons in there. But I guess they look better sucking than we do? Btw, they are still looking for their first 10 win season - ever.

So yeah, I guess I just sit here and wait until our campus is moved east of the Mississippi for our success to be anywhere as good as ISU's mediocrity.
 
Here are #24's "marathon" times for the past 10 years...


2 2018 Big 12 8 5 0 .615 7.78 4.01 18 Matt Campbell (8-5) Alamo Bowl-L
3
2017 Big 12 8 5 0 .615 9.77 3.85 14 Matt Campbell (8-5) Liberty Bowl-W
4
2016 Big 12 3 9 0 .250 -4.43 1.65 Matt Campbell (3-9)
5 2015 Big 12 3 9 0 .250 -2.14 4.28 Paul Rhoads (3-9)
6 2014 Big 12 2 10 0 .167 -8.64 3.52 Paul Rhoads (2-10)
7 2013 Big 12 3 9 0 .250 -3.57 3.34 Paul Rhoads (3-9)
8 2012 Big 12 6 7 0 .462 5.40 5.48 Paul Rhoads (6-7) Liberty Bowl-L
9
2011 Big 12 6 7 0 .462 2.12 7.35 Paul Rhoads (6-7) Pinstripe Bowl-L
10
2010 Big 12 5 7 0 .417 0.43 4.27 Paul Rhoads (5-7)
11 2009 Big 12 7 6 0 .538 -0.96 -0.73 Paul Rhoads (7-6) Insight Bowl-W

It gets better if you go back another 10 years - several Wullfian seasons in there. But I guess they look better sucking than we do? Btw, they are still looking for their first 10 win season - ever.

So yeah, I guess I just sit here and wait until our campus is moved east of the Mississippi for our success to be anywhere as good as ISU's mediocrity.

You are seriously overthinking this. Athlon has us at #27 and Iowa State at #24 and you are offended? They return their QB (who is a stud), their whole offensive line and most of their defense. We had to go pick up an FCS QB and replace almost half our starters on defense and you are pissed that we are a whole 3 spots behind them? Iowa State might be over-rated but the Alamo Bowl showed that they were a pretty damned solid team. I question how good they'll be without their stud RB and WR, but if you think WSU deserves a Top 25 spot, you'd think that the team that we barely beat in our bowl game that returns more players would be in the same ballpark.

FWIW, I think our performance in the Apple Cup is our biggest problem at the moment. The annual beat downs at the end of the season absolutely wreck our credibility every year. It didn't help that Michigan State ran the train on us in 2017 and that the Pac-12 is down overall. Our best win in the past couple seasons was against USC in 2017.....and they lost to Notre Dame and Ohio State by a combined score of 72-21 that year. Meanwhile, Iowa State knocked off both Oklahoma and TCU in 2017, both of which finished above USC in the final rankings of that season.

Long story short, our team needs to show some consistency before we expend a bunch of effort worrying about being ranked in the preseason Top 10. Quibbling over a couple spots in the rankings is as clueless as the rankings themselves are.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT