I've seen enough
- Thread starter COCoug
- Start date
The vision coaches have for WSU has to include the talent WSU can consistently get. If their vision revolves around what they know and it doesn’t vibe with the talent WSU can get, hard pass.
Without question, Dickert would have to interview and present his comprehensive plan to Chun. That’s not a question.
Some of you guys have mentioned that the reason Rolo got the job was to maintain offensive continuity after Leach, and I agree. That’s where I am with Dickert right now. I place a strong emphasis on program continuity. If I’m Dickert, my interview plan would center around the offensive people I would bring in; particularly a strong QB coach for JDL and Ward. Like all teams, we lose some key pieces next season, but QB and WR play looks to be a conference strength. I don’t see more than 2-3 other teams in the P12 bringing back better offense than we will.
Some of you guys have mentioned that the reason Rolo got the job was to maintain offensive continuity after Leach, and I agree. That’s where I am with Dickert right now. I place a strong emphasis on program continuity. If I’m Dickert, my interview plan would center around the offensive people I would bring in; particularly a strong QB coach for JDL and Ward. Like all teams, we lose some key pieces next season, but QB and WR play looks to be a conference strength. I don’t see more than 2-3 other teams in the P12 bringing back better offense than we will.
AND he opts to kick field goals too rather than leaving points off the board and coming up empty
The player strike conversation was always ridiculous. That was never going to happen.
You all have a difficult time discerning hypothetical potential scenarios vs. actual events.
Like a game of telephone tag where discussion points turn into facts.
Another angle to consider this from - how many players do we lose if Dickert doesn’t get the job? If we dump 2 coaches who players like within 4 months of each other…is that when players vote with their feet?
If we end up in a bowl, we’ll need to have a very good and public reason not to keep Dickert…or we’ll have to have a big splash hire that explains it by itself.
Yup. This isn’t Rolo’s team anymore than it is Dickert’s. These are all Mike Leach recruits. Barring a meltdown to end the season, Dickert is going to get the job. Even if we lose to Oregon, I can’t fathom a scenario where we beat Arizona and UW to end the season and then move away from Dickert.
If that does occur, expect Dickert to sign on as Oregon State’s defensive coordinator almost immediately. That’s what I’d do if I were him. 😎
Generally, I agree with what you said, however, let's not kid ourselves, Rolo will never be considered just another ex-coach. Just like Deon Burnett will never be considered just another ex player. They both were essential members of the team, didn't like how they were being treated and quit on the team, mid-season, and will go down in infamy as a result.
When we have discussed Wulff's tenure ad nauseam the topic of his lack of contacts in the industry has come up. As young as Dickert is, does he have enough connections for hiring the right coaches for a P5 program? What about recruiting connections? I believe the business often is "who you know".
I suspect there will be more planning and work into this one hire than any Chun has done before. Dickert isn’t just gonna get slid the job. Chuns reputation, and more or less his ability to obtain a bigger job rides on this. I don’t think Dickert can maintain this staff offensively and stay successful. There will have to be an offensive staff brought in if Dickert stays but how do you do that. Sever half a G5/P5 staff to come over? Personally I would be looking at Jim Mastro for his recruiting ability and pistol experience. Bet he could find a nice group of guys
Players need to take a long look at where other players that have entered the portal have landed before they walk from WSU.
The NCAA is allowing teams to take 7 kids over the signing limit of 25. If the next coach sees kids heading for the door, in 2 classes he could have the numbers back up.
He has been around enough programs to know guys. Bohl helps tremendously.
I dunno that recruiting connections mean much any more. You certainly don’t want coaches running you down to their kids. But it also isn’t the coaches signing LOIs. The last thing you want as a HS coach is a reputation for not helping your most talented kids find scholarships. I would venture to guess there are a lot of SoCal HS coaches counting on WSU or OSU or UA or Utah to be interested in their kids when SC or UCLA dont offer.
"but I think he’ll do very well with the parents."
Very well said Patrol! Totally agree. Parents will love Dickert.
Yep. So ridiculous. A player only has so many games to play before their career is over. Nobody was going to give up the precious limited games left in their career over this.
It was ridiculous, but it’s also human nature. In social psychology, that’s a typical first reaction.
I don't think that Dickert is even in my top several choices at this time. I would not just hand him the job based on how the teams plays the rest of the season.
Look at the depth chart. This is an experienced team that is almost all upperclassman. So, with a talented team that already knows how to win from the Leach years, and with players that have a lot of pride, they are finally playing up to what they should have played all year. Don't get me wrong, Dickert and his staff have shown a lot of leadership and he is putting players in a position to play well.
But, next year is almost a complete rebuild. Almost the entire defense graduates. More than half the offense graduates. Again, I think that Dickert has done a great job for what he is being asked to do this season.
But, that is different than the task that is a head of him in rebuilding this team.
He should be interviewed, but whether he is hired should be based on his vision on how the team is going to be successful under his guidance, and then compare that to the other coaches that are interviewed.
Look at the depth chart. This is an experienced team that is almost all upperclassman. So, with a talented team that already knows how to win from the Leach years, and with players that have a lot of pride, they are finally playing up to what they should have played all year. Don't get me wrong, Dickert and his staff have shown a lot of leadership and he is putting players in a position to play well.
But, next year is almost a complete rebuild. Almost the entire defense graduates. More than half the offense graduates. Again, I think that Dickert has done a great job for what he is being asked to do this season.
But, that is different than the task that is a head of him in rebuilding this team.
He should be interviewed, but whether he is hired should be based on his vision on how the team is going to be successful under his guidance, and then compare that to the other coaches that are interviewed.
Good and reasonable post. But I'm curious who your top several choices are at this time? Which names might be reasonably interested in taking the job?
Glad Cougar
Problem he hasn't been around many P5 programs and Bohl carries the same issue. Bohl has shown the ability to unearth small town Midwest kids with blue collar work ethics and turn them into a solid FB team. He did this into NDSU and is doing it at Wyoming (maybe not this year). The better contact is probably Hazelton. Hopefully they are friendly.
The recruiting game HS coaches play with WSU is simple. Steer the kids with options away from WSU, sell FCS and fringe mountain west kids to WSU. Local coaches went ballistic with Leach for not playing that game. Fortunately, he had enough respect nationally that coaches didn't poo poo us too much.
You are absolutely correct about upperclassmen dominant. I’m uncertain as to who will be granted another year due to covid which I assume will allow RS seniors to return while the 5th year grads are done.
Skill positions return a healthy dose of quality players, but we’ll need 3 new OL.
We’re good @ the Edge, but the interior DL and secondary are depleted.
The damn deer in headlights vs. USU and SC are painful as this is an experienced team.
We bring back a ton of players next year.
JDL, 3 starting WR's plus Renard Bell, 3 starting OL.
Defensively: the entire DL, and all our corners, and Marsh. Backup linebackers are playing a bunch as the season wears on. Safety is the only concern.
I'm indifferent on whether or not Dickert is the right guy. He's got plenty of plusses and some question marks. From a structure and discipline perspective, he's a massive upgrade over the last guy. I'm not sure if he's able to recruit well enough to keep things going or hire the necessary assistants. Concern is talent not culture, which makes the Doba/Wulff comparisons bad analogies. Dickert knows how to prepare to win.
Well…I didn’t think I would bring up rolos name, but do you think there is a ton of difference in recruiting cache between Rolo and Dickert?
Here is the next question , who will they hire that brings in mike leach type of cache? Harrell? Nope. So who? Urban Meyer?
I do have concerns of Dickert. And the reason being is two fold. We lost out when Doba moved away from big play offense to more of a ball control offense. That hurt recruiting . That hurt because as we saw against BYU we don’t have the man power or the patience to string 8 plays 80!yards today get it in the end zone .
I think WSU will be fine even on the back seven even losing all the players we lose . I think banker reloads like he did at osu. I think Dickert will get good linebacker play despite losing players .
I do like Leafs idea of getting brink on the staff . He can articulate and communicate ideas very well, and he knows the game inside and out, and he believes there has to be a system in place that produces big plays.
If I’m looking @ this correctly I’m seeing a number of GR & SR on the depth chart.
I have zero knowledge on who might be granted another year.
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You have to walk away. If the coach won’t have his top kids come to meet you, leave.
The problem stems from past coaches setting the tone by entertaining that bullshit. Doba and Wulff were too accommodating or even took those kids.
Also, NW football for the most part sucks. The coaches don’t see P5 talent often enough to know what they are looking at.
If WSU didn’t recruit WA at all, I dunno that it hurts them that bad.
Running back is the easiest position for a jc or freshman to come in and contribute right away
As a general point -- now might be the spot for it -- I find myself, even as one focused on recruiting and talent more than others, of two minds when bearing in mind tradeoffs between talent, coaching, discipline, and other aspects of managing a program.
Obviously you want a coach who can recruit great talent, manages the program effectively, and coaches them up--i.e., one who does it all--but sometimes when watching us on the recruiting trail, watching teams like ASU or UCLA consistently underperform despite great talent, and watching good Mountain West teams, BYU, and others of that ilk capable of playing pretty well in individual matchups against Pac-12 teams, at least, I sometimes think it could be most useful to focus on getting a coach from a very solid background in terms of coaching, discipline, and execution (i.e., a Bohl type, or someone from that kind of tree), and to acknowledge that WSU pretty much is going to recruit the same types of players no matter who the coach is in the current environment.
This doesn't disregard recruiting but acknowledges the reality of WSU getting classes in the lower 1/3 of the Pac-12 whether it is terrible or pretty great with a borderline HOF coach, and recruiting becomes more of a long game ... you have a coach who coaches up the players he has, gets them executing well, and maybe gets some guys to the NFL despite a lack of an elite pedigree. You also try to get some hungry and a little more "flashy" coaches on staff who will recruit, of course, like we had with Manning, and work with the AD to pay these guys enough and otherwise keep them happy in an effort to maintain as much continuity as possible, recognizing that guys always are going to move on for better opportunities. You also make ample use of the portal to plug in some talent and get some guys you may not have been able to land out of high school, but who would find a program like this attractive if there was an opportunity to play.
With this approach, recruits would choose WSU because it has an established coach who is respected and known for coaching kids up, and who wins and develops players despite the talent gap WSU always is going to face against USC, UW, UCLA, ASU, and the like, and you aren't just bringing in a "name" coach with the primary intent of hoping that name will allow us to pull in two or three high 3-stars or the occasional 4-star we wouldn't otherwise get. Utah and Whittingham generally fit this characterization.
Not wedded to this, and ideally would have a coach who does it all, with my "dream" scenario some kind of situation where we bring in a coach with a system and a pretty big name who can recruit and who can land a great coordinator on the other side of the ball and then somehow maintain continuity and stick around a while. Just thinking about this more as one who previously had been focused on the idea of WSU needing a pretty big name to recruit given all the disadvantages it faces on the recruiting trail.
Curious what others think.
Obviously you want a coach who can recruit great talent, manages the program effectively, and coaches them up--i.e., one who does it all--but sometimes when watching us on the recruiting trail, watching teams like ASU or UCLA consistently underperform despite great talent, and watching good Mountain West teams, BYU, and others of that ilk capable of playing pretty well in individual matchups against Pac-12 teams, at least, I sometimes think it could be most useful to focus on getting a coach from a very solid background in terms of coaching, discipline, and execution (i.e., a Bohl type, or someone from that kind of tree), and to acknowledge that WSU pretty much is going to recruit the same types of players no matter who the coach is in the current environment.
This doesn't disregard recruiting but acknowledges the reality of WSU getting classes in the lower 1/3 of the Pac-12 whether it is terrible or pretty great with a borderline HOF coach, and recruiting becomes more of a long game ... you have a coach who coaches up the players he has, gets them executing well, and maybe gets some guys to the NFL despite a lack of an elite pedigree. You also try to get some hungry and a little more "flashy" coaches on staff who will recruit, of course, like we had with Manning, and work with the AD to pay these guys enough and otherwise keep them happy in an effort to maintain as much continuity as possible, recognizing that guys always are going to move on for better opportunities. You also make ample use of the portal to plug in some talent and get some guys you may not have been able to land out of high school, but who would find a program like this attractive if there was an opportunity to play.
With this approach, recruits would choose WSU because it has an established coach who is respected and known for coaching kids up, and who wins and develops players despite the talent gap WSU always is going to face against USC, UW, UCLA, ASU, and the like, and you aren't just bringing in a "name" coach with the primary intent of hoping that name will allow us to pull in two or three high 3-stars or the occasional 4-star we wouldn't otherwise get. Utah and Whittingham generally fit this characterization.
Not wedded to this, and ideally would have a coach who does it all, with my "dream" scenario some kind of situation where we bring in a coach with a system and a pretty big name who can recruit and who can land a great coordinator on the other side of the ball and then somehow maintain continuity and stick around a while. Just thinking about this more as one who previously had been focused on the idea of WSU needing a pretty big name to recruit given all the disadvantages it faces on the recruiting trail.
Curious what others think.
Just stop recruiting WA because biggs says so. Genius. Do just the opposite.
Gleason
Withrow
Dunning
McEndoo
McWashington
Lindell
Boose
Doyle
Hollimon
Coleman
Trufant
Bassler
Dunning
Williams
Long
Genatone
Derting
We had that with CML, but budgetary issues blew up his staff. You can only go rooting around the recycle bin so long before you end up with someone like Claeys.
Childs (Kamiakin HS)
Mobley (Curtis HS)
Story time: we played Curtis HS in 1990 (the year they won the State Championship for the second year in a row )and lost to them 10-9 at home. I stood on the sideline and watch Mobley truck our best player (who played ST for WSU) over and over; never was I happier to be 2nd string than then.
** correction, we won that game 10-7. Man, I don't remember it that way, sucks getting old.
** edit #2 - digging more saw that Jay Dumas was a Curtis grad as well.
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I just picked the last two Rose Bowl teams. Which would be non-existent without players from the State of Washington. The Posse had a similar number of WA players.
Foolish to ignore in-state recruiting. Absolutely foolish..
Beau Baldwin was the QB on that Curtis team, btw.
Agreed/understood, and your question on this topic on another thread wasn't missed by me. I don't think our fans would like the answer.
Money was not the problem with claeys. Tracy was fine … he won and had success in 18. It wasn’t until his db who didn’t have a lot of experience questioned him and drove a wedge making it impossible to coach. He had success back at minn, a matter of fact he was the one who had the game plan that kept leach below 20 in the bowl game .
And you saw what happened after he left and the two other coaches were co d coordinators … at end of the game Jayden for asu walked in the end zone because they decided not to spy him . If they were playing one hand touch football he still would have scored . Those two were dolts
I feel like most fans would agree to mediocrity with spurts of greatness, but we are constantly flirting with being abysmal with spurts of mediocrity. And it all has 100% to do with (lack of) money.
WSU's sweet spot for WA recruits is guys that are Pac-12 quality that are unlikely to get an offer from uw. Our recruiting head to head against uw is worse than our AC record. It is what it is. The the recruits making bad decisions are the ones missing out.
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The OL worries me. I assume that Beresford will move to RT, and Fifita takes over at guard. No clue who will play LT. So, LT is ?, LG is Kingston, C is Gomness, RG is Fifita, RT is Beresford. WR is concerning too. Stribling is fine, but isn't go to blow the top off coverage. Losing Jackson and Harris is going to hurt.
The D is going to be duct tape for another year, but the underclassmen are there.
Now would certainly be a good time to catch them and steal some kids that might otherwise be heading to UW. Jimmy is a chump and will not be coaching them in ‘23. If you are going after the best in state kids, which you should be, that fact can not be stated enough to the Washington state recruits and HS coaching contacts.
Oregon poaching Leach's best assistants on a yearly basis (not to mention other departures like Manning going to UCLA) really drove home for me that long-term major success at WSU is nearly impossible absent more institutional support (i.e., more debt and/or money, and as we know, more debt isn't going to happen anytime soon). Not just "hard," in the same way it's hard for any program and almost unheard of for non-blue bloods absent major changes in circumstance (e.g., Oregon/Okie State), but just about impossible. I believe that to the extent Leach didn't already know that, it cemented it for him, too, and that is one of the things that led him to look around and bail (even if one grants that him being open to bail also contributed to further losses of assistants or, while I disagree that he was, any degree of being "checked out" that people have claimed).
Even with a coach capable of building up to a team #2 in the country in a disadvantaged spot, and on a materially similar track here, having assembled a staff that was pretty great by WSU standards--the one Leach had a few years in with Grinch, Salavea, Wilson, Manning, Sage, Mastro, etc.--it all could be derailed easily by a program with more money and otherwise preferable circumstances (easier recruiting, higher profile, better facilities, etc.) luring away assistants. No coach in America, and certainly not any that WSU reasonably could hope to hire or keep around long-term, could overcome that by consistently executing perfect hires every winter from a pool of Mountain West graduates and retreads / unusual situations and overcoming any discontinuity on the recruiting trail, especially with WSU's structural limitations on that front.
Even with a coach capable of building up to a team #2 in the country in a disadvantaged spot, and on a materially similar track here, having assembled a staff that was pretty great by WSU standards--the one Leach had a few years in with Grinch, Salavea, Wilson, Manning, Sage, Mastro, etc.--it all could be derailed easily by a program with more money and otherwise preferable circumstances (easier recruiting, higher profile, better facilities, etc.) luring away assistants. No coach in America, and certainly not any that WSU reasonably could hope to hire or keep around long-term, could overcome that by consistently executing perfect hires every winter from a pool of Mountain West graduates and retreads / unusual situations and overcoming any discontinuity on the recruiting trail, especially with WSU's structural limitations on that front.
I don't know enough about their athletic department to say whether or not CJL will be there in two years, but simply the fact that they hired him in the first place would seem to indicate that they aren't all that interested in fielding a championship contending team. He was a quick, lazy hire, and his shit talking would have made me question if his temperament and maturity was where it needed to be to prosper as a HC, but that's just me.
