Just hear me out...

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Would it be possible for the G5 schools (all of them) to ditch the NCAA and create their own governing body? Take D2 with them if it makes sense.

Everyone knows the NCAA is worthless and only exists to line their own pockets and those of outside interests like ESPN and bowl sponsors. If they can do something as radical as effectively exterminate a conference and two D1 programs on a whim, why can't programs do something as radical is create their own entity?

It doesn't have to compete with whatever the NCAA and their power brokers are doing. In fact, it should make every effort to not compete with them for anything - TV time or money, athletes, NIL dollars, athletes... anything.

What's the point? Not getting railroaded by a bunch of entities that have only their self interests motivating them in spite of supposedly being part of a whole who is supposed to look out for the whole.

 

[dgibbons]

Would it be possible for the G5 schools (all of them) to ditch the NCAA and create their own governing body? Take D2 with them if it makes sense.

Everyone knows the NCAA is worthless and only exists to line their own pockets and those of outside interests like ESPN and bowl sponsors. If they can do something as radical as effectively exterminate a conference and two D1 programs on a whim, why can't programs do something as radical is create their own entity?

It doesn't have to compete with whatever the NCAA and their power brokers are doing. In fact, it should make every effort to not compete with them for anything - TV time or money, athletes, NIL dollars, athletes... anything.

What's the point? Not getting railroaded by a bunch of entities that have only their self interests motivating them in spite of supposedly being part of a whole who is supposed to look out for the whole.

Possible, yes. Financially feasible?

 

[95coug]

In theory, yes. No idea what that looks like though, and in practice…probably not. The networks won’t support it, so there won’t be any money.

 

[WaltherPPK]

OH .... and you think the transfer portal and pay for play are just gonna die on their own ?

 

[CougPatrol]

I think the best thing the top G5 programs can do is merge and form a “super conference” of their own. An East / West pod of their top-20 programs that play for a championship with the winner getting into the CFP. In some years, they might get 2 teams in.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I think the best thing the top G5 programs can do is merge and form a “super conference” of their own. An East / West pod of their top-20 programs that play for a championship with the winner getting into the CFP. In some years, they might get 2 teams in.

Intriguing concept CP

What 20 schools would you include in this new breakaway super conference? Maybe this is something Dr. Schultz and his counterpart at OSU could be working on discreetly

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I think the best thing the top G5 programs can do is merge and form a “super conference” of their own. An East / West pod of their top-20 programs that play for a championship with the winner getting into the CFP. In some years, they might get 2 teams in.

You're still playing by their rules, and when they decide they want to exclude you or not allow you to compete then you will be at their mercy.

 

[Observer11]

Create an alliance of all G5 schools and the adopt a relegation model where the top 10 play in the upper division

Drop the lower 4 or 5 each year and move up the best of the rest.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Create an alliance of all G5 schools and the adopt a relegation model where the top 10 play in the upper division

Drop the lower 4 or 5 each year and move up the best of the rest.

By upper division do you mean a separate division of all G5 schools? Because if not you're asking existing P4 schools to subject themselves to relegation, which ain't gonna happen.

 

[Observer11]

By upper division do you mean a separate division of all G5 schools? Because if not you're asking existing P4 schools to subject themselves to relegation, which ain't gonna happen.

G5 only.

 

[UberCougars]

“If the Kool Kids would just throw a new party, then maybe we’ll get an invite too!

 

[sylean]

Would it be possible for the G5 schools (all of them) to ditch the NCAA and create their own governing body? Take D2 with them if it makes sense.

Everyone knows the NCAA is worthless and only exists to line their own pockets and those of outside interests like ESPN and bowl sponsors. If they can do something as radical as effectively exterminate a conference and two D1 programs on a whim, why can't programs do something as radical is create their own entity?

It doesn't have to compete with whatever the NCAA and their power brokers are doing. In fact, it should make every effort to not compete with them for anything - TV time or money, athletes, NIL dollars, athletes... anything.

What's the point? Not getting railroaded by a bunch of entities that have only their self interests motivating them in spite of supposedly being part of a whole who is supposed to look out for the whole.

 

[sylean]

yes...it needs to be done....create an entirely new college sports governing body with the emphasize on keeping good academics.....the Pac 12 was destroyed for the money people....they want one big college group and the rest be damned....seriously, people who support Eastern Wash or University of Montana etc love their programs.....we could grow to love a better football experience even if it means not playing the stinking game with the richie riches....as I see it, many many schools will simply back out of "major" sports because they can't compete with the nil......I for one have no interest in watching paid amateur athletes and all the drama that brings....

 

[CougPatrol]

You're still playing by their rules, and when they decide they want to exclude you or not allow you to compete then you will be at their mercy.

That's going to be the case no matter what. P12 champions the past several years have been excluded from the playoff. Blue blood conferences are going to rule the roost.

I just think a concept like the one I described, where the top G5 programs form a single league would bring the most excitement to the fans of those conference schools. Maybe the champ would get excluded, but not always, and it would still be exciting to have games in November that matter.

 

[425cougfan]

That's going to be the case no matter what. P12 champions the past several years have been excluded from the playoff. Blue blood conferences are going to rule the roost.

I just think a concept like the one I described, where the top G5 programs form a single league would bring the most excitement to the fans of those conference schools. Maybe the champ would get excluded, but not always, and it would still be exciting to have games in November that matter.

The tradeoff is between the seat at the big kid's table -- G of 5 teams can make the playoff, especially after it expands, subject to the big boys doing all they can to keep seats for themselves -- with a theoretical chance to win it all and/or be ranked in the top 10 of everyone, at least, vs. winning some kind of secondary title nobody would give a damn about.

The G of 5 title would be similar to the current situation with FCS or with the CFL (from an American perspective). Almost nobody even knows about who is playing for the title except for the teams involved. Yeah, this would be a step up from that, but I bet it's a lot smaller of a step up than most in favor of this idea would believe. I mean, let's say we were still in P5, nothing had changed from how it was a few years ago, and G of 5 wanted to break off and have some kind of minor tournament, with Tulane playing Utah State for whatever they would call this "championship." Who would even give a damn? It would be on par with a mediocre bowl game.

As unsatisfying as competing in the current environment is, I don't see a big benefit to establishing a secondary championship of sorts that will be viewed as a joke by anyone who pays attention at all. There still are NY6 bowls, playoff spots, and other stuff to play for (and in basketball, it isn't unthinkable at all for a non-P5 school to win it all, or at least go far in the tourney; that's out the window with this plan). Just have to put it in perspective and realize it's David vs. Goliath, with all kinds of things stacked against us, and that's how it always is going to be as a G of 5 team. If any fan base is able to do that, it has to be ours.

 

[Observer11]

yes...it needs to be done....create an entirely new college sports governing body with the emphasize on keeping good academics.....the Pac 12 was destroyed for the money people....they want one big college group and the rest be damned....seriously, people who support Eastern Wash or University of Montana etc love their programs.....we could grow to love a better football experience even if it means not playing the stinking game with the richie riches....as I see it, many many schools will simply back out of "major" sports because they can't compete with the nil......I for one have no interest in watching paid amateur athletes and all the drama that brings....

It’s taken me a bit to get to this state of mind but your last sentence really sums it up as well as anything I’ve seen.

 

[CougPatrol]

The tradeoff is between the seat at the big kid's table -- G of 5 teams can make the playoff, especially after it expands, subject to the big boys doing all they can to keep seats for themselves -- with a theoretical chance to win it all and/or be ranked in the top 10 of everyone, at least, vs. winning some kind of secondary title nobody would give a damn about.

The G of 5 title would be similar to the current situation with FCS or with the CFL (from an American perspective). Almost nobody even knows about who is playing for the title except for the teams involved. Yeah, this would be a step up from that, but I bet it's a lot smaller of a step up than most in favor of this idea would believe. I mean, let's say we were still in P5, nothing had changed from how it was a few years ago, and G of 5 wanted to break off and have some kind of minor tournament, with Tulane playing Utah State for whatever they would call this "championship." Who would even give a damn? It would be on par with a mediocre bowl game.

As unsatisfying as competing in the current environment is, I don't see a big benefit to establishing a secondary championship of sorts that will be viewed as a joke by anyone who pays attention at all. There still are NY6 bowls, playoff spots, and other stuff to play for (and in basketball, it isn't unthinkable at all for a non-P5 school to win it all, or at least go far in the tourney; that's out the window with this plan). Just have to put it in perspective and realize it's David vs. Goliath, with all kinds of things stacked against us, and that's how it always is going to be as a G of 5 team. If any fan base is able to do that, it has to be ours.

Agree completely. As I've gotten older, I've come to a better understanding of this. Most fans only care about their teams. Internet fans like us aren't representative of the general fan bases. The rest of the Nation doesn't care about the G5, as you said, but conversely, they also don't care about the West coast in general. I'm an East coast guy at my roots. All of my extended family live in New England, and they're rabid sports fans. Virtually none of them could tell you anything about the sports scene out here. Professional or college. They have dozens of rivals within 500-1000 miles of them in the same general time zone. The Seattle Mariners, Kracken, Seahawks, Portland Trailblazers, etc. Who TF are they?

I wasn't suggesting that the G5 spin off from the traditional NCAA. Like you mentioned, there isn't a benefit to that, and if anything, it would be viewed as an arena league championship. What I want to see is for WSU and OSU to get proactive and "rebuild" the P12 with the understanding that creating the strongest G5 conference out there is more attainable than trolling for lifelines in conferences that are 2-3 time zones away. Yes, it will David vs. Goliath. Yes, the financials will be significantly less. But at the end of the day, there will still be D1 football in Pullman. There will still be a conference championship to play for with bowl games on the line. Down the road, I see the playoff expanding beyond 12 teams. I don't think there's any question about that. The NCAA and media outlets want as many people engaged about collegiate sports as possible. They're going to either keep the bowl games going or expand the playoff. As long as that's a thing, WSU fans will come out a few times a year and cheer on the Cougs. We'll have some real stinker home games depending on who we play, but the games vs. Oregon State, Boise State, Fresno, SDSU, Idaho, and UW if we continue the series will draw 25-30K fans like we do now. If do what I hope and form an East / West conference that includes Air Force, Army, Navy, Tulane, and some others, there will be scheduling opportunities. Maybe a WSU vs. Navy game at Lumen Field?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Agree completely. As I've gotten older, I've come to a better understanding of this. Most fans only care about their teams. Internet fans like us aren't representative of the general fan bases. The rest of the Nation doesn't care about the G5, as you said, but conversely, they also don't care about the West coast in general. I'm an East coast guy at my roots. All of my extended family live in New England, and they're rabid sports fans. Virtually none of them could tell you anything about the sports scene out here. Professional or college. They have dozens of rivals within 500-1000 miles of them in the same general time zone. The Seattle Mariners, Kracken, Seahawks, Portland Trailblazers, etc. Who TF are they?

I wasn't suggesting that the G5 spin off from the traditional NCAA. Like you mentioned, there isn't a benefit to that, and if anything, it would be viewed as an arena league championship. What I want to see is for WSU and OSU to get proactive and "rebuild" the P12 with the understanding that creating the strongest G5 conference out there is more attainable than trolling for lifelines in conferences that are 2-3 time zones away. Yes, it will David vs. Goliath. Yes, the financials will be significantly less. But at the end of the day, there will still be D1 football in Pullman. There will still be a conference championship to play for with bowl games on the line. Down the road, I see the playoff expanding beyond 12 teams. I don't think there's any question about that. The NCAA and media outlets want as many people engaged about collegiate sports as possible. They're going to either keep the bowl games going or expand the playoff. As long as that's a thing, WSU fans will come out a few times a year and cheer on the Cougs. We'll have some real stinker home games depending on who we play, but the games vs. Oregon State, Boise State, Fresno, SDSU, Idaho, and UW if we continue the series will draw 25-30K fans like we do now. If do what I hope and form an East / West conference that includes Air Force, Army, Navy, Tulane, and some others, there will be scheduling opportunities. Maybe a WSU vs. Navy game at Lumen Field?

How do you reconcile "no body gives a crap about G5/ west coast sports" with "lets build the best G5 and force a place at the table"?

You said it - nobody cares about the G5. I'm not talking about fans, I'm talking about the power brokers. It is my belief that the P4 will eventually eliminate the G5 from any opportunity for a seat at the post season/ playoff table. Based on current actions and behavior I don't think that my belief is unfounded. In addition, I don't think it would be wise to move forward with a plan that is dependent on the P4's sincerity as the current climate has shown that every entity is out for their own good and contracts and agreements are worth nil.

While I don't disagree with the concept of creating a powerful G5 that would "demand" a seat at the post-season table, I think its foolhardy to believe that anyone outside of the conference would act in good faith.

 

[CougPatrol]

How do you reconcile "no body gives a crap about G5/ west coast sports" with "lets build the best G5 and force a place at the table"?

You said it - nobody cares about the G5. I'm not talking about fans, I'm talking about the power brokers. It is my belief that the P4 will eventually eliminate the G5 from any opportunity for a seat at the post season/ playoff table. Based on current actions and behavior I don't think that my belief is unfounded. In addition, I don't think it would be wise to move forward with a plan that is dependent on the P4's sincerity as the current climate has shown that every entity is out for their own good and contracts and agreements are worth nil.

While I don't disagree with the concept of creating a powerful G5 that would "demand" a seat at the post-season table, I think its foolhardy to believe that anyone outside of the conference would act in good faith.

I don’t see that happening. After the next wave of realignment, there will be more teams left out of the supper conference shuffle than there are teams who made cut. There will be an illusion of March madness with the playoff with a G5 program getting in most years.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I don’t see that happening. After the next wave of realignment, there will be more teams left out of the supper conference shuffle than there are teams who made cut. There will be an illusion of March madness with the playoff with a G5 program getting in most years.

YOU think this is a bad thing. THEY do not. The writing is on the wall. And the floor. And the ceiling.

 

[dgibbons]

YOU think this is a bad thing. THEY do not. The writing is on the wall. And the floor. And the ceiling.

Said before, the next phase of realignment will include throwing teams out of conferences. WVU, Iowa, Iowa State, Vanderbilt, Purdue, Indiana, etc., watch out.

 

[CougPatrol]

YOU think this is a bad thing. THEY do not. The writing is on the wall. And the floor. And the ceiling.

The companies will exploit things as best they can, but there are 50+ programs who can draw 20-40K fans/game on football Saturday's. There will be a market for that.

 

[CougPatrol]

Said before, the next phase of realignment will include throwing teams out of conferences. WVU, Iowa, Iowa State, Vanderbilt, Purdue, Indiana, etc., watch out.

Absolutely, and those teams aren't all small time. Purdue likely won't get chopped, but your point is valid.

 

[95coug]

Absolutely, and those teams aren't all small time. Purdue likely won't get chopped, but your point is valid.

I think there will be some purging of the smaller market teams, but the blue bloods have to balance it. They still need to keep around some teams to beat.

I think Vandy stays because they lose a lot and they have money. Indiana, Illinois and similar could be in trouble. Maryland, Rutgers, and WVU could go either way, but they maintain some presence in the NE market, so there is some reason to keep them.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Agree completely. As I've gotten older, I've come to a better understanding of this. Most fans only care about their teams. Internet fans like us aren't representative of the general fan bases. The rest of the Nation doesn't care about the G5, as you said, but conversely, they also don't care about the West coast in general. I'm an East coast guy at my roots. All of my extended family live in New England, and they're rabid sports fans. Virtually none of them could tell you anything about the sports scene out here. Professional or college. They have dozens of rivals within 500-1000 miles of them in the same general time zone. The Seattle Mariners, Kracken, Seahawks, Portland Trailblazers, etc. Who TF are they?

I wasn't suggesting that the G5 spin off from the traditional NCAA. Like you mentioned, there isn't a benefit to that, and if anything, it would be viewed as an arena league championship. What I want to see is for WSU and OSU to get proactive and "rebuild" the P12 with the understanding that creating the strongest G5 conference out there is more attainable than trolling for lifelines in conferences that are 2-3 time zones away. Yes, it will David vs. Goliath. Yes, the financials will be significantly less. But at the end of the day, there will still be D1 football in Pullman. There will still be a conference championship to play for with bowl games on the line. Down the road, I see the playoff expanding beyond 12 teams. I don't think there's any question about that. The NCAA and media outlets want as many people engaged about collegiate sports as possible. They're going to either keep the bowl games going or expand the playoff. As long as that's a thing, WSU fans will come out a few times a year and cheer on the Cougs. We'll have some real stinker home games depending on who we play, but the games vs. Oregon State, Boise State, Fresno, SDSU, Idaho, and UW if we continue the series will draw 25-30K fans like we do now. If do what I hope and form an East / West conference that includes Air Force, Army, Navy, Tulane, and some others, there will be scheduling opportunities. Maybe a WSU vs. Navy game at Lumen Field?

Years ago, I went to a friend's wedding in North Carolina. This was during the Tony Bennett years. Not only did those people not know who WSU was, they didn't even know anything about the Pac12. Not even when I tried to talk about the Lute Olson Arizona or Wooden UCLA teams. It's like I was talking about a different sport to them.

 

[Fab5Coug]

yes...it needs to be done....create an entirely new college sports governing body with the emphasize on keeping good academics.....the Pac 12 was destroyed for the money people....they want one big college group and the rest be damned....seriously, people who support Eastern Wash or University of Montana etc love their programs.....we could grow to love a better football experience even if it means not playing the stinking game with the richie riches....as I see it, many many schools will simply back out of "major" sports because they can't compete with the nil......I for one have no interest in watching paid amateur athletes and all the drama that brings....

I also don't have much interest in contributing to it. I'll buy my tickets and my gear, even make a donation to the AD, and they can use the money however they wish. I don't have much interest in paying into some collective so Cam Ward can get a free truck. That's just me.

Imagine walking into a Seahawks game and being asked to make a contribution so the team can sign a free agent or something. It's really a wild concept when you think about it.

 

[dgibbons]

Absolutely, and those teams aren't all small time. Purdue likely won't get chopped, but your point is valid.

Any school outside of a large market that isn't a historic powerhouse will be on the chopping block.

What does Purdue bring to the table in exchange for the $52+ million distribution? Winnable games for tOSU and Michigan wins won't be enough.

 

[dgibbons]

Years ago, I went to a friend's wedding in North Carolina. This was during the Tony Bennett years. Not only did those people not know who WSU was, they didn't even know anything about the Pac12. Not even when I tried to talk about the Lute Olson Arizona or Wooden UCLA teams. It's like I was talking about a different sport to them.

You're a Yankee.

 

[dgibbons]

I also don't have much interest in contributing to it. I'll buy my tickets and my gear, even make a donation to the AD, and they can use the money however they wish. I don't have much interest in paying into some collective so Cam Ward can get a free truck. That's just me.

Imagine walking into a Seahawks game and being asked to make a contribution so the team can sign a free agent or something. It's really a wild concept when you think about it.

Same for me.

These last last four years have really sucked a lot of fanhood out of me. Leach leaving and dying, the Covid stupidity, firing Rolovich, NIL, portal, the conference disappearing and I'll be charitable and say WSU having an uncertain future. I'll keep my season tickets for as long as I have a kid in Pullman. After that, we're talking about a choice between a vacation and WSU football season tickets.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Same for me.

These last last four years have really sucked a lot of fanhood out of me. Leach leaving and dying, the Covid stupidity, firing Rolovich, NIL, portal, the conference disappearing and I'll be charitable and say WSU having in uncertain future. I'll keep my season tickets for as long as I have a kid in Pullman. After that, we're talking about a choice between a vacation and WSU football season tickets.

At some point, they've just stripped out nearly everything I like about the sport. I already don't watch much outside of the Pac 12. Could honestly see myself just checking out of the whole thing after this year.

 

[CougPatrol]

Any school outside of a large market that isn't a historic powerhouse will be on the chopping block.

What does Purdue bring to the table in exchange for the $52+ million distribution? Winnable games for tOSU and Michigan wins won't be enough.

Purdue has a large following. I believe they have around 40K season ticket holders. They're also a prestigious academic school. Couple that with a blue-blood basketball program and they're a top conference target.

 

[CougPatrol]

At some point, they've just stripped out nearly everything I like about the sport. I already don't watch much outside of the Pac 12. Could honestly see myself just checking out of the whole thing after this year.

A lot of West coast programs are going that way. Even UW has an apathetic fan base in the grand scheme of things.

Things are free falling in the NCAA currently, but I suspect there will be some guardrails put in place in the years to come.

 

[CougPatrol]

Same for me.

These last last four years have really sucked a lot of fanhood out of me. Leach leaving and dying, the Covid stupidity, firing Rolovich, NIL, portal, the conference disappearing and I'll be charitable and say WSU having an uncertain future. I'll keep my season tickets for as long as I have a kid in Pullman. After that, we're talking about a choice between a vacation and WSU football season tickets.

That's precisely where I'm at. I've got a son starting at WSU next year, and while he doesn't give a rip about sports, I'll support the team out of convenience since I'll be visiting him anyway. With that said, I'm not renewing my Beasley RV pass and that decision will save me $2K in mandatory CAF donation. I store my 5th wheel over there in the Fall, which also costs money, and that won't be happening much longer either.

I suspect that having Fall weekends to myself will feel strange at first, but then I'll grow to love it. Might be time to purchase that boat I've always wanted.

 

[BSpike76]

That's precisely where I'm at. I've got a son starting at WSU next year, and while he doesn't give a rip about sports, I'll support the team out of convenience since I'll be visiting him anyway. With that said, I'm not renewing my Beasley RV pass and that decision will save me $2K in mandatory CAF donation. I store my 5th wheel over there in the Fall, which also costs money, and that won't be happening much longer either.

I suspect that having Fall weekends to myself will feel strange at first, but then I'll grow to love it. Might be time to purchase that boat I've always wanted.

Best 2 days of owning a boat. The day you buy it and the day you sell it. Been there, done that.

Also B.O.A.T. Stands for break out another thousand.

One more thing. If you don't use it during the winter don’t store it with gas with ethanol added. I’ve know more than one boat owner who had to replace an engine due to that. Use ethanol free. I used ethanol free in the boat, but didn’t in my chain saw and had to replace the gas line.

 

[CougPatrol]

Best 2 days of owning a boat. The day you buy it and the day you sell it. Been there, done that.

Also B.O.A.T. Stands for break out another thousand.

One more thing. If you don't use it during the winter don’t store it with gas with ethanol added. I’ve know more than one boat owner who had to replace an engine due to that. Use ethanol free. I used ethanol free in the boat, but didn’t in my chain saw and had to replace the gas line.

There's no doubt about that, but looking back on the past 30+ years of tireless support of WSU athletics and the countless hours spent driving back and forth from Seattle, where's my ROI? The damn program is imploding before my eyes.

I spend $10K/year on WSU associated costs. I'm ready to invest in another depreciating asset.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Best 2 days of owning a boat. The day you buy it and the day you sell it. Been there, done that.

Also B.O.A.T. Stands for break out another thousand.

One more thing. If you don't use it during the winter don’t store it with gas with ethanol added. I’ve know more than one boat owner who had to replace an engine due to that. Use ethanol free. I used ethanol free in the boat, but didn’t in my chain saw and had to replace the gas line.

 

[BSpike76]

There's no doubt about that, but looking back on the past 30+ years of tireless support of WSU athletics and the countless hours spent driving back and forth from Seattle, where's my ROI? The damn program is imploding before my eyes.

I spend $10K/year on WSU associated costs. I'm ready to invest in another depreciating asset.

I do Autocross. Much bigger adrenaline rush.

 

[CougPatrol]

I do Autocross. Much bigger adrenaline rush.

That sounds fun. I bought an MT 07 this summer. It's been a blast.

 

[Fab5Coug]

That's precisely where I'm at. I've got a son starting at WSU next year, and while he doesn't give a rip about sports, I'll support the team out of convenience since I'll be visiting him anyway. With that said, I'm not renewing my Beasley RV pass and that decision will save me $2K in mandatory CAF donation. I store my 5th wheel over there in the Fall, which also costs money, and that won't be happening much longer either.

I suspect that having Fall weekends to myself will feel strange at first, but then I'll grow to love it. Might be time to purchase that boat I've always wanted.

It's wild to think about. My kids know me as a baseball fan, first and foremost. If only they'd known me 10 years ago.

As I mentioned, I took my son to the World Series for less than we spent on a weekend in Pullman. Starting to plan out more baseball trips.

 

[Coug90]

I do Autocross. Much bigger adrenaline rush.

What? a 10-7 barnburner against a 2-6 team
In front of 12,000 rabid Coug fans doesn’t get your dick hard?!