Leach detractors- have you seen IT?

[CougEd]

Uhh, do you ever WATCH an Alabama game? They certainly don't BRING IN SICK starters for the Chattanooga game. But you being wrong about that is probably related to MY football experience. Again, it's a move that, until shown otherwise (and you haven't), is a singular kind of Paul Wulff failure.

Here's where the fact that, for whatever football you played, you obviously paid no attention. THEY'RE NOT THE SAME DECISION AT ALL, no matter how much you Wulff disciples wish they were. You haven't even really gotten close.

Wulffui...put in its simplest form, you object to the decision because of the risk against a more than winnable game while in your mind because of the flu he was not fit to do so. While I haven't gone past Google and page one, which has stuff from 2014 you are correct I have not found the exact same set of circumstances. But I have shown you players whop have played in meaningless games with the flu. I have shown you players who have been injured in meaningless minutes. I even showed you our own coach expose our only qb in a meaningless minutes in a 62-24 blow out. It really isn't about a coach replicating the exact same set of circumstances, but rather exposing a player to injury in a meaningless game. You think 14-0 I is safe. I am just telling you the coaches I have met don't have that same mentality you do where it is "only an FCS team".

But if you have to rail on how crappy of a decision it is by a coach with a 9-40 record, feel free. Where you see it about Wulff, if it was he, Dennis Erickson, Jerry Pettibone, I would tell you that is what coaches do.

 

[wulffui]

you are correct I have not found the exact same set of circumstances.

Aaaaannnnd... we're done.

 

[CPtheCoug]

I know there is a ton of history between a few members on this here board, but come on guys... this is getting ridiculous.

You're defending the decision to NOT consult WEB MD re medical issues of WSU players.​

He is not. It is pretty clear that he is not. He has, however, been very clear with his actual point.

You act like the flu impairs judgement like he just smoked a J or drank a 40.

It does impair judgment, and its not even close...


Look... everyone... as unfortunate as it sounds, and as much as your emotions/body/soul feels differently; responsibility always RESTS WITH THE HEAD COACH. Yes things happen, terrible things, but it ultimately rests on the decision making and judgment of the Head Coach. Wulff did not, for whatever reason (a reason that doesn't matter anymore), judge the situation correctly. He made a mistake. He did not protect his player(s). Mistakes happen, and again it sucks, but it is bad... very bad... to try and argue that the Head Coach is not at fault for Tuel getting hurt.

Now I am not a Leach cool-aid drinker, nor am I a Wulff basher, but trying to re-write history just to win an argument over your Internet Rival(s) is just plain stupid.

So please... everyone... knock it off. Argue and ADDRESS counter arguments in a productive manner. Name calling makes you look stupid, relying on your experience from DECADES ago makes you look stupid, repeating yourself makes you look stupid, not addressing counter points makes you look stupid, and ABOVE ALL ELSE taking these issues personally/revealing personal information about other posters/etc.. not only makes you look stupid - it should honestly get your a** get banned from the forum.

That's all, go Cougs...

 

[spongebob11]

No, you're just denying ANY IMPACT of the flu. Totally different. Typical Wulff defense, requires massive ignorance- you're the man for that job!

"Sir..I'm going to need you to step out of the car so I can take your temperature" haha!

 

[wulffui]

"Sir..I'm going to need you to step out of the car so I can take your temperature" haha!

Welcome to the Dr. Sponge-posium:

"Vaccines: accepted medical advance, or alien death juice for sick pussies? Second one, right!?"

 

[CougEd]

One of us is discussing a thing that ACTUALLY HAPPENED as a result of a poor decision by a former coach.

The other is spinning furiously to compare that thing to several things that DIDN'T ACTUALLY HAPPEN to our current coach, to make a failure look better, and claiming that blaming him for bad coaching decisions he made is like blaming him for a flat tire!?!

You're the second guy.

Ummm...no....one is talking about coaching decisions that virtually every other coach would make the same decision and you somehow think this is to make Wulff "look better". He is fired, long gone, he has a 9-40 record. And despite that information, it does not mean his decision at the time was a bad one as it would be norm in the industry.

 

[froropmkr72]

HWGC, why do you always argue a point up until someone reminds you of how much you've lied in the past and then you're only left with name calling. Trying to call Wulffui a troll? You're a funny man.

YOU had nothing to positive to say about WSU football until you'd posted 700 posts on the UW website and THEN changed your name to HereWeGoCougars.

 

[wulffui]

If everyone would make that decision, you'd have found someone who did.

 

[CougEd]

This is from WebMD, I know they're not the authority you are, but let's see if your "flu = nothing" theory holds up:

. With the flu, though, you are likely to run a high fever for several days and have body aches, fatigue, and weakness.

NO WAY! Fatigue, weakness, body aches- those are all GREAT for football though, right? And the IV- that's what you get when you're TOTALLY healthy, right?

YOU had nothing to positive to say about WSU football until you'd posted 700 posts on the UW website and THEN changed your name to HereWeGoCougars.

And the positives we heard during the lean years were deafening as well.

 

[CougEd]

I know there is a ton of history between a few members on this here board, but come on guys... this is getting ridiculous.



He is not. It is pretty clear that he is not. He has, however, been very clear with his actual point.



It does impair judgment, and its not even close...


Look... everyone... as unfortunate as it sounds, and as much as your emotions/body/soul feels differently; responsibility always RESTS WITH THE HEAD COACH. Yes things happen, terrible things, but it ultimately rests on the decision making and judgment of the Head Coach. Wulff did not, for whatever reason (a reason that doesn't matter anymore), judge the situation correctly. He made a mistake. He did not protect his player(s). Mistakes happen, and again it sucks, but it is bad... very bad... to try and argue that the Head Coach is not at fault for Tuel getting hurt.

Now I am not a Leach cool-aid drinker, nor am I a Wulff basher, but trying to re-write history just to win an argument over your Internet Rival(s) is just plain stupid.

So please... everyone... knock it off. Argue and ADDRESS counter arguments in a productive manner. Name calling makes you look stupid, relying on your experience from DECADES ago makes you look stupid, repeating yourself makes you look stupid, not addressing counter points makes you look stupid, and ABOVE ALL ELSE taking these issues personally/revealing personal information about other posters/etc.. not only makes you look stupid - it should honestly get your a** get banned from the forum.

That's all, go Cougs...

CP...if it is 4th down and two yards to go, you have the ball and the lead with less less than a minute left, and you are confronted with a choice. You can try to pick up the two yards, and if you fail you give your opponent the ball at the 50 with 56 seconds left. If you are the coach, and faced with those two decisions, which one do you go with? If you asked 20 coaches, what do you think they would do. Punt the ball or go for the 4th down?

 

[CougEd]

If everyone would make that decision, you'd have found someone who did.

Sure...they make a decision to play their best players in a 14 point game in the first quarter. Sorry risk and reward escapes you.

 

[CougEd]

Fatigue and weakness don't affect decision making? That's what you decided on?

Can you even read? I mean "eves drop" obviously means you can't write, but man...

Fatigue and weakness...almost sounds like every football game.

 

[CougEd]

Man, all this comedy to avoid admitting a bad decision had a bad result. Wulff would be proud.

It's pretty impressive, though, that the only path to defending Wulff on this particular awful decision involving denying the existence of one of the most common illnesses known to man, while throwing the guy who was the key to Wulff's (fictional) bowl game under the bus.

No a normal decision had a bad result. That has been the point.

 

[spongebob11]

Welcome to the Dr. Sponge-posium:

"Vaccines: accepted medical advance, or alien death juice for sick pussies? Second one, right!?"

Perhaps the WSU medical staff should have consulted Web MD before clearing Tuel.

 

[CPtheCoug]

CP...if it is 4th down and two yards to go, you have the ball and the lead with less less than a minute left, and you are confronted with a choice. You can try to pick up the two yards, and if you fail you give your opponent the ball at the 50 with 56 seconds left. If you are the coach, and faced with those two decisions, which one do you go with? If you asked 20 coaches, what do you think they would do. Punt the ball or go for the 4th down?

In terms of this actual argument, and not a hypothetical question, as Head Coach it doesn't matter what decision I make as long as I know I am the one ultimately responsible for making the decision. I would pray that I didn't have fans blaming one of my players for something that is in my wheel house.

 

[wulffui]

Perhaps the WSU medical staff should have consulted Web MD before clearing Tuel.

You think that prevents the injury?

 

[chinookpirate]

Clearly, you do or you would not have brought it up and beat the issue into submission

 

[CPtheCoug]

Clearly, you do or you would not have brought it up and beat the issue into submission

No, he doesn't. That is what is clear.

Come on people... actually address the main points of each argument with relevant and well thought out counter points...

 

[CougEd]

In terms of this actual argument, and not a hypothetical question, as Head Coach it doesn't matter what decision I make as long as I know I am the one ultimately responsible for making the decision. I would pray that I didn't have fans blaming one of my players for something that is in my wheel house.

So this is in the coaches wheel house. Doe she punt or does he run the ball. Punting is the right option. You pin them back, it makes the most sense, it is what every coach would do except the high school coach from Arkansas. If you punt, and 20 out of 20 coaches would put, that is not a "bad" decision. Say the returner takes it all the way to the house, 94 yards. It is still the right decision. You can't call it a bad decision.

 

[dgibbons]

Fatigue and weakness...almost sounds like every football game.

Add vomiting all day, and it's a bit different.

 

[spongebob11]

In terms of this actual argument, and not a hypothetical question, as Head Coach it doesn't matter what decision I make as long as I know I am the one ultimately responsible for making the decision. I would pray that I didn't have fans blaming one of my players for something that is in my wheel house.

I am still baffled as to how the flu made Jeff Tuel take on a linebacker....and how that dumb decision is on Wulff.

You guys make it sound like he might as well been sipping bourbon and puffing cigarettes before the game.

The flu makes you physically weaker. It doesn't make you do dumb shit.

 

[dgibbons]

And the positives we heard during the lean years were deafening as well.

The training table was epic....

 

[froropmkr72]

And the positives we heard during the lean years were deafening as well.

So that's the reason he was on the UW website before 2008' and then became HWGC on this site.

 

[froropmkr72]

So that's the reason he was on the UW website before 2008' and then became HWGC on this site.

Let's ask Chinook Pirate what his handle was before he switched to HereWeGoCougars and started posting on both WSU boards. It was something else before a cougar name.......wasn't it?

 

[Coug95man2]

Add vomiting all day, and it's a bit different.

And the fact a virus was attacking his body...

 

[wulffui]

I am still baffled as to how the flu made Jeff Tuel take on a linebacker....and how that dumb decision is on Wulff.

The flu makes you physically weaker.

And now that you've FINALLY accepted that the flu is bad, we're done here too. Unless your assertion is that Wulff WANTED physically weaker players. Then playing a "physically weaker" (your words) player falls under the scope of the coach, and the result makes clear that was a BAD IDEA.

 

[dgibbons]

And the fact a virus was attacking his body...

He probably couldn't eat, or at least was not able to hold down, the pregame meal. I assume he was able to hold down fluids or he would not have been cleared to play.

 

[CPtheCoug]

So this is in the coaches wheel house. Doe he punt or does he run the ball. Punting is the right option. You pin them back, it makes the most sense, it is what every coach would do except the high school coach from Arkansas. If you punt, and 20 out of 20 coaches would put, that is not a "bad" decision. Say the returner takes it all the way to the house, 94 yards. It is still the right decision. You can't call it a bad decision.

I appreciate your comments. I don’t want this to fall into a circular affair similar to other threads (such as asking you pointless questions like “What are the weather conditions, how strong a leg does our punter have, has he been consistent this game, how’s our defense, has the defense actually held them or struggled to keep the lead, etc…”)

I see your point. I suppose in my mind just because a decision is common doesn’t make it automatically the “right choice”, which is why head coaching at the D1+ level is so frickin’ hard. You have to analyze each situation you are presented in a very fast and public manner. I don’t want to argue whether it was a good decision or not, I just merely want to direct the attention of most of the posters that (what seems like) the main back and forth has been whether Tuel’s injury was the responsibility of Tuel’s bad decision or Wulff’s.

I lean toward Wulff, it sucks I know, but that is why head coaching is hard. It is “your” responsibility. I don’t hate the guy, but Tuel was very clearly ill, with an illness that DOES affect your physical and mental state, and not to mention he is young and predisposed to wanting to enter the game at a moment’s notice (kids wanna play). It’s on the head coach to analyze his player (and in this case MOST important player) and determine if it’s a good idea or not.

I am still baffled as to how the flu made Jeff Tuel take on a linebacker....and how that dumb decision is on Wulff.

Because Wulff is the non-sick, adult, head coach of a D1 school, who has the responsibility of ensuring his players are good-to-go.

 

[froropmkr72]

He probably couldn't eat, or at least was not able to hold down, the pregame meal. I assume he was able to hold down fluids or he would not have been cleared to play.

."did not start season opener against Idaho State due to stomach illness", a direct quote. He shouldn't of played the game and most posters agreed at the time.

 

[spongebob11]

I appreciate your comments. I don’t want this to fall into a circular affair similar to other threads (such as asking you pointless questions like “What are the weather conditions, how strong a leg does our punter have, has he been consistent this game, how’s our defense, has the defense actually held them or struggled to keep the lead, etc…”)

I see your point. I suppose in my mind just because a decision is common doesn’t make it automatically the “right choice”, which is why head coaching at the D1+ level is so frickin’ hard. You have to analyze each situation you are presented in a very fast and public manner. I don’t want to argue whether it was a good decision or not, I just merely want to direct the attention of most of the posters that (what seems like) the main back and forth has been whether Tuel’s injury was the responsibility of Tuel’s bad decision or Wulff’s.

I lean toward Wulff, it sucks I know, but that is why head coaching is hard. It is “your” responsibility. I don’t hate the guy, but Tuel was very clearly ill, with an illness that DOES affect your physical and mental state, and not to mention he is young and predisposed to wanting to enter the game at a moment’s notice (kids wanna play). It’s on the head coach to analyze his player (and in this case MOST important player) and determine if it’s a good idea or not.



Because Wulff is the non-sick, adult, head coach of a D1 school, who has the responsibility of ensuring his players are good-to-go.

He was good to go...which is why he was cleared by the trainer. He felt better and wanted to go in the game.

Everyone is blaming his injury on the flu, which is hilarious. I supposed he wouldn't have broken his collar bone had he took on a 240 lb from USC since he didn't have the flu.

 

[wulffui]

Everyone is blaming his injury on the flu, which is hilarious.

No, EVERYONE, including, finally, YOU, is saying that the flu affects your body.

Most people are blaming the coach who exposed his- how did you put it?- physically weaker?- player to injury in the interest of replacing a QB who was rolling against the biggest, plushest doormat the program could schedule. It was a bad decision, it had a bad result. Don't know why it's impossible for you to see ANY culpability for the coach.

 

[spongebob11]

No, EVERYONE, including, finally, YOU, is saying that the flu affects your body.

Most people are blaming the coach who exposed his- how did you put it?- physically weaker?- player to injury in the interest of replacing a QB who was rolling against the biggest, plushest doormat the program could schedule. It was a bad decision, it had a bad result. Don't know why it's impossible for you to see ANY culpability for the coach.

I see...so in addition to making you take on linebackers instead of getting out of bounds, the flu makes your collar bone weaker. Good to know.

I feel like I just entered the Twilight Zone.

 

[wulffui]

I see...so in addition to making you take on linebackers instead of getting out of bounds, the flu makes your collar bone weaker. Good to know.

I feel like I just entered the Twilight Zone.

That ten minutes where you acknowledged you actually knew what the flu was made me feel the same way. But I guess when you said "physically weaker", what you REALLY meant was, "physically weaker, except for those cast iron collarbones, which AREN'T part of your physiology." Now I get it.

But now you're back to denial, and everything is right with the world again.

 

[spongebob11]

That ten minutes where you acknowledged you actually knew what the flu was made me feel the same way. But I guess when you said "physically weaker", what you REALLY meant was, "physically weaker, except for those cast iron collarbones, which AREN'T part of your physiology." Now I get it.

But now you're back to denial, and everything is right with the world again.

For F sakes, Fluui...the flu drains your energy. It doesn't make your bones weaker.

If it made your bones weaker, there would be broken bones all over the place because people actually have played in a game of football with the flu...GASP!!

 

[wulffui]

For F sakes, Fluui...the flu drains your energy. It doesn't make your bones weaker.

If it made your bones weaker, there would be broken bones all over the place because people actually have played in a game of football with the flu...GASP!!

Oh, drained energy. That's another one of those "football favorable" effects of the flu, right? I'm sorry, when you said "physically weaker", I thought you knew what that meant. Guess not.

"Bad Process, Bad Decision, Bad Result- The Coach Paul Wulff Story, tonight at nine on the Hallmark Channel."

 

[Coug95man2]

For F sakes, Fluui...the flu drains your energy. It doesn't make your bones weaker.

If it made your bones weaker, there would be broken bones all over the place because people actually have played in a game of football with the flu...GASP!!

Don't know why I'm posting on this but this point seriously intrigues me...
I ask this with complete humility, Sponge. Have you ever been sick with the flu? If so, when you wake up in the morning after throwing up all night, are you completely with it? Or your fever is getting up there, and you are mentally 100% with it?

Example: You're laying on the coach, first shivering, then sweating like a stuck pig, and your wife or one of your kids said something to you… you're awake, your watching TV lets say, but you haven't a CLUE what they just said. They say it, and it still makes NO sense to you… They have to literally take you step by step through whatever exchange so it's clear to you…

I gotta say, when I get the flu, this kind of situation is the norm. I don't know what kind of flu you get (assuming you've had the flu before… who hasn't but I hate to assume) but how it completely affects me physically and mentally is pretty evident. I'd even say just the fever and how throwing up just completely affects a body… those 2 things, I'm mentally drained.

The reason I ask. You say "the flu drains your energy". Regardless of any other point anyone makes, doesn't THIS affect you mentally? I mean, when you are physically drained, do you make proper choices? I don't. I'd say most don't. While it seems you ignore the fact a virus is affecting a body in so many ways, OK. So put that to the side… When physically drained, have you ever been 100% mentally there? I'd guess not. EDIT: I guess that's the part, I'll just speak for me, that I'm having a real hard time even grasping… Of course the flu affects you mentally… To think the flu doesn't affect you mentally just doesn't even make sense!

 

[wulffui]

Don't know why I'm posting on this but this point seriously intrigues me...
I ask this with complete humility, Sponge. Have you ever been sick with the flu? If so, when you wake up in the morning after throwing up all night, are you completely with it? Or your fever is getting up there, and you are mentally 100% with it?

Example: You're laying on the coach, first shivering, then sweating like a stuck pig, and your wife or one of your kids said something to you… you're awake, your watching TV lets say, but you haven't a CLUE what they just said. They say it, and it still makes NO sense to you… They have to literally take you step by step through whatever exchange so it's clear to you…

I gotta say, when I get the flu, this kind of situation is the norm. I don't know what kind of flu you get (assuming you've had the flu before… who hasn't but I hate to assume) but how it completely affects men physically and mentally is pretty evident. I'd even say just the fever and how throwing up just completely affects a body… those 2 things, I'm mentally drained.

The reason I ask. You say "the flu drains your energy". Regardless of any other point anyone makes, doesn't THIS affect you mentally? I mean, when you are physically drained, do you make proper choices? I don't. I'd say most don't. While it seems you ignore the fact a virus is affecting a body in so many ways, OK. So put that to the side… When physically drained, have you ever been 100% mentally there? I'd guess not.

The flu is miserable, and the idea that some people are acting like "no, not really a thing" when the guy was vomiting that day, and can't play at kickoff because he isn't medically cleared yet is only plausible if you've never had the flu ever.

Maybe there's some really lucky people on the board who've never had the flu.

 

[CPtheCoug]

He was good to go...which is why he was cleared by the trainer. He felt better and wanted to go in the game.

Everyone is blaming his injury on the flu, which is hilarious. I supposed he wouldn't have broken his collar bone had he took on a 240 lb from USC since he didn't have the flu.

Okay so maybe we should all Google or whatever commonly accepted terminology so that we don't have to needlessly go back and forth.

When I say good to go, I mean you are materially effective on the field. You are essentially 100% ( and if you aren't, whatever is bothering you is not affecting your performance).

Being cleared to play does not equal good to go.... Being cleared to play implys that YES, you can physically go out onto the field. It in no way implies that you'll be effective.

The trainer "cleared" him to play does not imply a good decision. And anyone with experience with football knows players DO lie to trainers so that they can get back out onto the field.

 

[spongebob11]

Don't know why I'm posting on this but this point seriously intrigues me...
I ask this with complete humility, Sponge. Have you ever been sick with the flu? If so, when you wake up in the morning after throwing up all night, are you completely with it? Or your fever is getting up there, and you are mentally 100% with it?

Example: You're laying on the coach, first shivering, then sweating like a stuck pig, and your wife or one of your kids said something to you… you're awake, your watching TV lets say, but you haven't a CLUE what they just said. They say it, and it still makes NO sense to you… They have to literally take you step by step through whatever exchange so it's clear to you…

I gotta say, when I get the flu, this kind of situation is the norm. I don't know what kind of flu you get (assuming you've had the flu before… who hasn't but I hate to assume) but how it completely affects me physically and mentally is pretty evident. I'd even say just the fever and how throwing up just completely affects a body… those 2 things, I'm mentally drained.

The reason I ask. You say "the flu drains your energy". Regardless of any other point anyone makes, doesn't THIS affect you mentally? I mean, when you are physically drained, do you make proper choices? I don't. I'd say most don't. While it seems you ignore the fact a virus is affecting a body in so many ways, OK. So put that to the side… When physically drained, have you ever been 100% mentally there? I'd guess not. EDIT: I guess that's the part, I'll just speak for me, that I'm having a real hard time even grasping… Of course the flu affects you mentally… To think the flu doesn't affect you mentally just doesn't even make sense!

Yes, I've had the flu. And no, I've never done dumb shIt like take on a linebacker. It has never impaired my judgement.

I've seriously gotten a kick out of this thread. Back when I was on spring break from school, I was staying with Ed, who was a newly wed at the time.

Well, like all college kids, I was perpetually hungry and eating all his food. And there was some cake in there...and it sure looked delicious. So I helped myself. Turned out to be his wedding cake.

After getting an earful, wanna know what my excuse was? "The flu made me do it"

 

[Coug95man2]

Yes, I've had the flu. And no, I've never done dumb shIt like take on a linebacker. It has never impaired my judgement.

I've seriously gotten a kick out of this thread. Back when I was on spring break from school, I was staying with Ed, who was a newly wed at the time.

Well, like all college kids, I was perpetually hungry and eating all his food. And there was some cake in there...and it sure looked delicious. So I helped myself. Turned out to be his wedding cake.

After getting an earful, wanna know what my excuse was? "The flu made me do it"

Through this whole thread, I've been nothing but civil and kind to you. Please try to do the same. Think you can?