Leach is #1!!!
- Thread starter CougPatrol
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I believe you are serious? When you say only....If an Olineman tackled him you would expect it to be in the first five yards of the recovery...not 30 yards later. I am an old timer, and this is the first time I have ever heard of a olineman with an angle tackling a DB that had "an angle".
Does that make less sense than "he ran him down in a straightline pursuit"? Even as the oldest timer, there isn't a wide database of "speed guys run down by linemen" plays to draw examples from. And you still can't seem to find the play anywhere (so it definitely happened with us down 4 TD's, at least) so we can't actually watch it and say with any certainty.
You know...I would take the angle of 1990. He had turf toes and he was caught by a lineman 20 plus yards down field. I will have someone track down the video since you cant seem to handle the facts of what happened.
What are the facts of what happened? All you've said is this guy took him down while he was running for a touchdown, just 70 yards short of the TD. There's nothing to handle, I barely care, except your recollections (cough, Fajardo TD, cough) have been lock-tite in the past. Are you saying the guy DIDN'T use an angle, and just ran him down? Because of the two, THAT'S the one that seems less sensible.
Maybe in your world, where DE's aren't allowed to make plays in the middle of the field, and OL eschew pursuit angles on turnovers to show how much faster they are than DB's, that does make sense, though.
Weren't YOU gonna get the video the next time you went to the office? Now it's "someone", and they have to "track it down"? You're probably telling most of the truth, but I'd bet dollars to donuts now that there WAS a pursuit angle that it bothers you that you'd have to acknowledge.
Actually I said I would go to the office and prove to you a lineman ran down Chima. It doesn't bother about "acknowledging the Oline had the angle. That in itself is hilarious. If the lineman would tackle a DB it isn't 29 yards behind the play. It is within probably five yards where he picked up the ball. I gave you the written account, you thing it is "normal" that an olineman have angles. They don't. DB's out run the angles. That is what is so ridiculous about your statement.
And you keep bringing up the Cody F video. It was one play earlier, didn't change the fact about Brown but you are like a frickin attorney. I clarified the play that it happened. Not on the TD run but the long run where White and not Brown tackled him inside the 10 yard line.
"A Olineman tackled Chima in a TD saving tackle". "No he didn't. Oh, he tackled him but the lineman had the angle, plus the WR's could have run him down." I do have to tell you I did tell a former WSU lineman and gave him all the accounts from the paper I shared with you and he couldn't stop laughing. So I guess thanks for the chuckle.
Here was one Hawaii's columnists take..
Even Hawaii's linemen were faster than Washington State's defensive backs. When Chima Nwachukwu picked up a fumble by Alexander at the Cougars 1 midway through the second quarter -- 1 yard from Hawaii going up 42-0 -- he briefly appeared free for a 99-yard score down the sideline. Then Warriors right tackle Laupepa Letuli ran him down and pushed him out of bounds at the WSU 31.
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I have to point this out- you have DBs pursuing Chima and you wonder why people get confused about your posts.
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No, I don't "thing" that. I do think an OL getting an angle to run down a faster player is more likely than a straight line pursuit, which I said and you ignored, so you could call Coach Wulff and have a chuckle.
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What is the point of this Chima debate anyway? What exactly is it that you guys are arguing? He was caught by a lineman in a game. Big deal. The lineman probably had an angle on him since he was coming from mid field and was probably somewhere around the 10 yard line when Chima recovered the ball.
Chima wasn't a blazer, but he wasn't remarkably, "no business being in the Pac12" slow either. Here's his eval prior to the NFL draft. Says his best 40 was 4.48, high was 4.69. I assume those times were from his WSU pro day.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=71176&draftyear=2011&genpos=CB
4.48 is decent for a CB. 4.69 isn't particularly good. But, it's not like he was Damante Horton, running a 5 flat either.
Chima wasn't a blazer, but he wasn't remarkably, "no business being in the Pac12" slow either. Here's his eval prior to the NFL draft. Says his best 40 was 4.48, high was 4.69. I assume those times were from his WSU pro day.
http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=71176&draftyear=2011&genpos=CB
4.48 is decent for a CB. 4.69 isn't particularly good. But, it's not like he was Damante Horton, running a 5 flat either.
Of course another way of looking at this is why in holy hell did Wulff and Ball scheme the defense they way they did in that game? Did they want to go down 35-0 with 10 minutes left in the 2nd quarter?
I don't know, I came to terms with the ramifications of getting shelled by Hawaii almost half a decade ago. But some people want individual plays that say something more than what the score did.
That was two recruiting classes into the tenure without a replacement for him, though. Maybe the coaches didn't know how slow he was.
Wulffui..I gotta ask. Have you ever played a down of football? The reason I ask is because some of the stuff you post is just off the charts with it.
If you are going to make fun of someone for a typo, you may want to make sure you don't have any in the same post. What does "ran more likely" mean?
Or they cannot or will not acknowledge that Wulff was responsible for his own failure.
Yes. Plenty of downs. Believe me, as someone with common sense, most of what you say is befuddling too. But you'll have to tell me what's "off your charts" because, for me, stuff like "no one ever wins taking over in Dec with a new QB" or "why would a DE make a play in the middle of the line?" makes me think you've never WATCHED a game of football, let alone played it.
As for my typo, if you used that vaunted "logic" you misapplied to the Wilson-Gibson situation, just take out the word that doesn't make sense. Ran shouldn't be there. I will fix it. For you, and your comprehension.
And given your sartorial wherewithal, you calling people out on typos is ALMOST as bad as calling them out for their handle, Spongey.
I've talked to someone who has actually met the Little Sisters of aPaulogia. And, yes, they're as stupid as they come across here. Get a few beers in them, and it's a full 'tard session.
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Really? You have to show me where I called your brother a liar. You do make me laugh. Your comeback to me telling you hadn't played sports is to tell me DGibs, myself and a few others never played football. Wow! What an awesome comeback. You must have spent hours thinking of that moronic comeback
. You are paranoid if you think there is a herd mentality.
They keep on bringing up players like Zach Williams as proof Wulff was some kind of genius. Williams was drafted in the 6th round by the Carolina Panthers. He was also a horrible lineman. Fantastic athlete, but not good at either blocking or snapping the football. Much like Wulff recruiting a great large athlete and trying to turn him into a good lineman, the Panthers did the same thing. The drafted his athleticism hoping he could develop. He couldn't and was waived.
Rico Forbes was similar. Fantastic athlete, not a good football player.
As I wrote, when the brothers were on hiatus, this place was respectful. Those two plus chinook have turned this place upside down. They think we have some herd mentality. It is laughable. I may have been the first to call out Wulff. If not, among the first. Anyone that has played, watched or both could tell Wulff was in over his head from the beginning.
OK: "29 years" behind a play that could have been run down by "DBs" playing on offense and tackling a "DB"? Brilliant. Just brilliant.
Its not a big deal other than people saying it didn't happen or I am reinventing the story. The comment was simply the Hawaii game gave me the the first realization how slow we had become. Thats the crux of it. If he had PAc 10 DB speed trust me is outrunning any angle you may think he had. Given the fact Chima picked the ball up on the one, and the center was blocking someone and probably was at the 6 or seven, had to open up and start the chase, a DB doesn't get 23 yards down the field. I have said it many times that doesn't mean Chima couldn't be an effective football player, it just showed the lack of speed, the lack of size and the lack of explosion we had back in 2001 to 2003.
Just as I had said before, Buchanon was out run by Locker. Doesn't mean he couldn't play football, but it also meant you better have better speed elsewhere to mask the problem. Horton if ever put on a deep post pattern without help was in trouble.
Good find Fab. As I said, he was not slow when he first came to WSU. He played corner well for a freshman. Then Wulff arrived and the coaching along with the S&C program went to crap.
So, he had speed as a freshman. He did not have speed as a junior. That is a failure of the head coach and his S & C program, isn't it?
You reinvent stories all the time. You blow facts all the time. Your recollection of details is often one sided or just flat out wrong.
You did get this one right. Are you looking for a medal or a chest to pin it on?
It could be the fault of the adult who didn't prepare his body the way he needed to. It might be he reached his peak potential, physically, don't know.
I DO know that losers tend to blame others for their personal failures and there are many stories of Cougar players who were supposed 'locks' for the NFL but some coach prevented it from happening.
I DO know that losers tend to blame others for their personal failures and there are many stories of Cougar players who were supposed 'locks' for the NFL but some coach prevented it from happening.
Actually no. Who said Chima had the speed when he was a freshman. That is like saying Horton had that top end speed and next thing you know he didn't. Horton had great feet and great in air ball skills. Put him out there without safety help and he gets locked up on a deep post pattern against Paul Richardson type he will really struggle.
But if you are saying he lost speed, which I don't believe, or it is the head coach's fault I think is misguided. Every player who didn't play well it was the coaches fault, even though Gibson had the same position coach. Chima had a guy that helped put Trufant, Coleman and David in the NFL. He then put more guys in at Alabama and even a guy at Pitt. The guy is proven. AS was Morton on the oline.
Why use the word "they"? What I think and what sponge thinks are very different. I suppose the one area I would agree with him, or he with I was the state of the program and the lack of experience at QB plus at DT which was my central issue with whoever took over.
Because despite what you think, you and your brother are parrots of each other most of the time. One more thing you have no idea about.
I said he had speed as a freshman. He did. Good point about his position coach. Ball was not good when he was under Wulff. He was good when he was under Price. It could be because he is better just focusing on coaching a position and not have the added responsibility of co-coordinating a defense. It is one of the things I wonder about Grinch. Will he stretch himself too thin?
Or it could be Ball is better when he has a coach that oversees him like when he was a position coach under DC Doba. At ASU, he shares responsibility of coaching DB's with the head coach.
So yeah, too bad Ball was not the same when he was under Wulff. Because he was gawd awful. Good point you brought up Ed.
So... Ball was smart, then stupid now smart. Ball didn't need athletes but all other coaches do. Got it, 1990
I realize you left out the word antithesis, but yes, Wulff is a GREAT example of a player faced adversity yet did not let coaching changes deter him from improving his own fitness level. Wulff as a player improved throughout his career. True, that some Players seem to digress.
So what you are saying is when Doba went from linebacker coach to DC when Zimmer left that the linebacker played diminished? And when he assumed the DC activities in 2007 while being the head coach the defense really suffered by giving up 53, 52, 48, 47 and 42. Maybe you are on to something.
I don't think Chima Nwachukwu's speed speaks to anything. I don't think he had speed and lost it.
As I posted, he is credited with a 4.48 40 before the draft. That would have been after his senior year. Like I said, he wasn't a blazer, but I don't recall his speed being a total liability either (his 40 time would support that).
Why'd he get caught by a lineman? If I had to guess, he, along with the rest of the defense was probably gassed having to chase around Hawaii's WRs all game. Wouldn't surprise me if he was a little banged up as well.
John Estes, the Hawaii center credited with the tackle ran a 5.34 40. So, I can tell you with certainty, he was not capable of chasing down Chima in a straight up foot race, without some kind of extenuating circumstances.
I know...I know...Chris Ball never was offered the job, my brother and I parrot each other. I have called you out for the heard mentality. (he may think that, I never once made claim to that) Chima was never tackled 30 yards down field by an olineman. I can't believe how clueless I am some times. And if you want to know the truth I don't read all of his posts.
I don't know if you're implying Chima didn't "work to improve his fitness level", based on this discussion, but that is obnoxious, if so.
