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Leach is #1!!!

So, he had speed as a freshman. He did not have speed as a junior. That is a failure of the head coach and his S & C program, isn't it?
I would probably rank it less of a failure than not bringing in a kicker that won't miss an extra point to win the game or bring players and a special team coach that gave up the same TD run on a kickoff. I think if he got slower it was because of what he did and didn't do.
 
I don't think Chima Nwachukwu's speed speaks to anything. I don't think he had speed and lost it.

As I posted, he is credited with a 4.48 40 before the draft. That would have been after his senior year. Like I said, he wasn't a blazer, but I don't recall his speed being a total liability either (his 40 time would support that).

Why'd he get caught by a lineman? If I had to guess, he, along with the rest of the defense was probably gassed having to chase around Hawaii's WRs all game. Wouldn't surprise me if he was a little banged up as well.

John Estes, the Hawaii center credited with the tackle ran a 5.34 40. So, I can tell you with certainty, he was not capable of chasing down Chima in a straight up foot race, without some kind of extenuating circumstances.
And the olineman banging on the dlineman isn't exhausting ? And no, if you put Chima in a stance and the olinman that caught him in a stance, Chima is beating him every time. If Chima had Davids wheels, or Trufant's wheels or even Coleman's wheels he doesn't get chased down, angled or whatever someone wants to call it by a Olineman. I simply said it happened, that is when I noticed the decline in overall speed. That is what sprouted this whole discussion. When I was told it didn't happen or I am making stuff up that is how this thing mushroomed. Clearly it did happen. Doesn't mean Chima wasn't a Pac 10 football player. It was just my observation we were slowing down as a team.
 
I realize you left out the word antithesis, but yes, Wulff is a GREAT example of a player faced adversity yet did not let coaching changes deter him from improving his own fitness level. Wulff as a player improved throughout his career. True, that some Players seem to digress.

Wrong again. The blaming others part seemed pretty obvious for those that can read....
 
Wulff didn't face adversity as a player?

Wulff didn't deal with multiple coaching changes?

Wulff didn't improve personally in spite of the turmoil?

Are you alive? Are you real? Is this a joke?
 
I would probably rank it less of a failure than not bringing in a kicker that won't miss an extra point to win the game or bring players and a special team coach that gave up the same TD run on a kickoff. I think if he got slower it was because of what he did and didn't do.
That is your opinion. Since the entire team got worse under Wulff's watch, it is likely he just was not good. It is why when Harbaugh was putting together a staff at Michigan, he could have called up Wulff. That he did not speaks volumes.

Wulff wanted his players big. But, all he got was slow.
 
Wulff didn't face adversity as a player?

Wulff didn't deal with multiple coaching changes?

Wulff didn't improve personally in spite of the turmoil?

Are you alive? Are you real? Is this a joke?
There is one HUGE difference you are missing. Wulff went from one coach to an outstanding coach at the time in Dennis Erickson. That is like hitting the lottery. The 2008 team went from one coach to Paul Wulff, That is like losing your home in a fire.
 
This thread has become an endless loop comparing the relative success of Leach and two previously fired WSU coaches.
 
Interesting.

When I read it, I see a small segment wanting to diminish the awfulness of one fired coach by blaming the coaches before and after his tenure, and the players he had during it.

As long not an ill word is spoken about 6-60.
 
I'm also sad that we got a 600 post thread where the lead was how overpaid Leach was without any contribution from Steptoe.
 
And the olineman banging on the dlineman isn't exhausting ? And no, if you put Chima in a stance and the olinman that caught him in a stance, Chima is beating him every time. If Chima had Davids wheels, or Trufant's wheels or even Coleman's wheels he doesn't get chased down, angled or whatever someone wants to call it by a Olineman. I simply said it happened, that is when I noticed the decline in overall speed. That is what sprouted this whole discussion. When I was told it didn't happen or I am making stuff up that is how this thing mushroomed. Clearly it did happen. Doesn't mean Chima wasn't a Pac 10 football player. It was just my observation we were slowing down as a team.

And my observation is that Wulff completely failed to do anything to improve speed.
 
Really? You have to show me where I called your brother a liar. You do make me laugh. Your comeback to me telling you hadn't played sports is to tell me DGibs, myself and a few others never played football. Wow! What an awesome comeback. You must have spent hours thinking of that moronic comebacko_O.

You are paranoid if you think there is a herd mentality.
Its funny you call my comeback moronic because I was using your very same argument against you...so your insult must have been moronic to begin with.
 
That is your opinion. Since the entire team got worse under Wulff's watch, it is likely he just was not good. It is why when Harbaugh was putting together a staff at Michigan, he could have called up Wulff. That he did not speaks volumes.

Wulff wanted his players big. But, all he got was slow.
It speaks volumes to you. You get when he had an opening he hired Wulff. He kept him around for two years. He recommended him to another coach. It easily could be Wulff didn't fit because he had zero midwest ties in recruiting, or there was someone Harbaugh new longer to coach his oline.
 
There is one HUGE difference you are missing. Wulff went from one coach to an outstanding coach at the time in Dennis Erickson. That is like hitting the lottery. The 2008 team went from one coach to Paul Wulff, That is like losing your home in a fire.
1990...Yes, tell me how much much WU improved from 1986 to 1987. This great coach put Broussard in the slot. This great coach had his qb lead the country in picks and the QB went to him in the off seasons and requested Dennis move him to defense. The same coach with other coaches players won two national championships and with his own players was dead last in rushing. But to the point Waldens players regressed in 1987
 
1990...Yes, tell me how much much WU improved from 1986 to 1987. This great coach put Broussard in the slot. This great coach had his qb lead the country in picks and the QB went to him in the off seasons and requested Dennis move him to defense. The same coach with other coaches players won two national championships and with his own players was dead last in rushing. But to the point Waldens players regressed in 1987

Walden's decline began in '85 with the departure of several top recruits (Bo Christian, Mike Pringle) and his and his staff's absolutely horrible treatment of players in '86, when he was forced out.
 
Its funny you call my comeback moronic because I was using your very same argument against you...so your insult must have been moronic to begin with.

Hate to tell you, using the same exact argument is not using it against me. It is saying you are not smart enough to be original, so you have to copy.
 
Walden's decline began in '85 with the departure of several top recruits (Bo Christian, Mike Pringle) and his and his staff's absolutely horrible treatment of players in '86, when he was forced out.
Like when Walden almost ripped James Hasty's head off against USC?
 
Like when Walden almost ripped James Hasty's head off against USC?

Or when Walden AC Gary Gagnon began shoving Kitrick Taylor on the sideline AFTER Taylor scored a TD in the '85 Apple Cup. Taylor actually shoved him back before retreating. Of course, there was the "hell week" the following season when several players quit in protest over mistreatment, verbal and physical, by coaches.
 
All fine and good, but has the Chima conundrum been resolved? I think there could easily be 4-500 more posts on that one.
 
1990...Yes, tell me how much much WU improved from 1986 to 1987. This great coach put Broussard in the slot. This great coach had his qb lead the country in picks and the QB went to him in the off seasons and requested Dennis move him to defense. The same coach with other coaches players won two national championships and with his own players was dead last in rushing. But to the point Waldens players regressed in 1987
If you are trying to say Walden was better than Erickson as coaches, then we have nothing to discuss. It is just plain stupid. So are all your points. They are incredibly stupid. All of them.

He did not have his QB lead the country in interceptions. He had a first year QB who threw interceptions. Who cares if Rosebach wanted to change positions? Erickson still believed in him and would not let him change. Erickson coached him into leading the country in passing and becoming a first round pick.

When does a team become his own? Erickson won the NC in his first year and 3rd year. He also finished 3rd in the country his 4th year and 6 in his 6th.
 
Or when Walden AC Gary Gagnon began shoving Kitrick Taylor on the sideline AFTER Taylor scored a TD in the '85 Apple Cup. Taylor actually shoved him back before retreating. Of course, there was the "hell week" the following season when several players quit in protest over mistreatment, verbal and physical, by coaches.
Yeah, and Walden was such a hypocrite regarding Leach who never physically abused a player.
 
It speaks volumes to you. You get when he had an opening he hired Wulff. He kept him around for two years. He recommended him to another coach. It easily could be Wulff didn't fit because he had zero midwest ties in recruiting, or there was someone Harbaugh new longer to coach his oline.
Michigan also recruits nationwide. Michigan also recruits Florida. And you keep on telling me that I make excuses. A great coach is a great coach. Wulff was fired after one year. He is not good.
 
If you are trying to say Walden was better than Erickson as coaches, then we have nothing to discuss. It is just plain stupid. So are all your points. They are incredibly stupid. All of them.

He did not have his QB lead the country in interceptions. He had a first year QB who threw interceptions. Who cares if Rosebach wanted to change positions? Erickson still believed in him and would not let him change. Erickson coached him into leading the country in passing and becoming a first round pick.

When does a team become his own? Erickson won the NC in his first year and 3rd year. He also finished 3rd in the country his 4th year and 6 in his 6th.
You're not qualified to make that judgement 90...especially since you've never played a down of football
 
Wulff didn't face adversity as a player?

Wulff didn't deal with multiple coaching changes?

Wulff didn't improve personally in spite of the turmoil?

Are you alive? Are you real? Is this a joke?

Amazing how he was exactly the opposite as a coach....
 
You think YOU'RE qualified to judge alcohol intake? Ha! You've never even played a down of football.
I love football. I really do not have a favorite team, I just do not like Man U.
 
If you are trying to say Walden was better than Erickson as coaches, then we have nothing to discuss. It is just plain stupid. So are all your points. They are incredibly stupid. All of them.

He did not have his QB lead the country in interceptions. He had a first year QB who threw interceptions. Who cares if Rosebach wanted to change positions? Erickson still believed in him and would not let him change. Erickson coached him into leading the country in passing and becoming a first round pick.

When does a team become his own? Erickson won the NC in his first year and 3rd year. He also finished 3rd in the country his 4th year and 6 in his 6th.
Please tell me which D1 QB threw more picks in 87? He had 24. He led the Pac 10 by a fairly wide margin with Wilhelm second with 20.
Michigan also recruits nationwide. Michigan also recruits Florida. And you keep on telling me that I make excuses. A great coach is a great coach. Wulff was fired after one year. He is not good.
Wait...first, not sure anyone has said Wulff is a great coach. Yes, he certainly was respected by Harbaugh who hired him and then got him a job at S Florida. Maybe you know more than harbaugh,

Second, why did Rosenbach stink up the place, lead the Pac 10 in picks, lead major college D1 in picks that year? Why did Erickson play his best rb in the slot? And you get in 1988 when we go to the discipline front it was reported the team GPA was below 2. Why did it take so long to get Rosie righted?

Also, Walden as an x's and o's coach. Nope. Erickson was genius at that time. But Walden saved WSU football.
 
Interesting.

When I read it, I see a small segment wanting to diminish the awfulness of one fired coach by blaming the coaches before and after his tenure, and the players he had during it.

As long not an ill word is spoken about 6-60.
Oh...now that is pretty funny. Versus your remarks and others about the pile of crap left, the miracle run of 2013, no players expect two defensive players the last two years picked in the top three rounds, and how all of Wulffs recruits sucked and the coaches sucked, and Chima lost a step due to the syrebgth and conditioning. It sounds like you have given reasons why Leach hasn't had nearly the same success as he had in Lubbock.
 
If you are trying to say Walden was better than Erickson as coaches, then we have nothing to discuss. It is just plain stupid.

He did not have his QB lead the country in interceptions. He had a first year QB who threw interceptions. Who cares if Rosebach wanted to change positions? Erickson still believed in him and would not let him change. Erickson coached him into leading the country in passing and becoming a first round pick.

When does a team become his own? Erickson won the NC in his first year and 3rd year. He also finished 3rd in the country his 4th year and 6 in his 6th.
Walden achieved more as a coach while at WSU than Erickson did while he was there. That is undeniable.
 
Oh...now that is pretty funny. Versus your remarks and others about the pile of crap left, the miracle run of 2013, no players expect two defensive players the last two years picked in the top three rounds, and how all of Wulffs recruits sucked and the coaches sucked, and Chima lost a step due to the syrebgth and conditioning. It sounds like you have given reasons why Leach hasn't had nearly the same success as he had in Lubbock.
Yes, we have a good coach now, players will get drafted. The zero tutelage he got from Wulff after signing late was probably the difference, though. Not the work of Cooper, or the coaching of Leach's staff. Wulff left draft picks.

Amazing how the guys coached by Wulff didn't get drafted till someone got hired to fix them.

Oh, and Etheredge sucks. That part is true.
 
Yes, we have a good coach now, players will get drafted. The zero tutelage he got from Wulff after signing late was probably the difference, though. Not the work of Cooper, or the coaching of Leach's staff. Wulff left draft picks.

Amazing how the guys coached by Wulff didn't get drafted till someone got hired to fix them.

Oh, and Etheredge sucks. That part is true.
Didn't the DB coach and DC just get canned for having a defense that rivaled 2009?
 
Didn't the DB coach and DC just get canned for having a defense that rivaled 2009?

Yes, and got hired on elsewhere with the same job title very rapidly, because, you know, one bad year happens, and his FBS resume is dotted with success. I mean, he's most responsible for developing two guys on defense who went early in the draft in consecutive years, after at least a five year drought in draftees there at his "old" school.

I can't understand why the coach who brought those guys in hasn't been given that opportunity again... or another offensive coordinator opportunity after his one year of taking a merely bad offense, and making it the worst offense in all of college football... (there's a USF "Year in Review" piece from last week that sounds really familiar) or, really, anything, at all.

No, wait, I do. It's because all five years he's been associated with an FBS team, they've been downright terrible. All time terrible. But...


Nope. No buts, just all time futility.
 
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Oh...now that is pretty funny. Versus your remarks and others about the pile of crap left, the miracle run of 2013, no players expect two defensive players the last two years picked in the top three rounds, and how all of Wulffs recruits sucked and the coaches sucked, and Chima lost a step due to the syrebgth and conditioning. It sounds like you have given reasons why Leach hasn't had nearly the same success as he had in Lubbock.

Only in your world does Wulff get all the credit for development of Bucannon and Cooper.
 
I have no horse to beat here - but to not post in a thread with 636 replies and counting just wouldn't be right.
 
Only in your world does Wulff get all the credit for development of Bucannon and Cooper.

Heard an interview with Cooper before the draft. Odd, he didn't mention Paul Wulff's name once. Talked a lot about Levy recruiting him, and talked even more about Big Joe. Not one single mention of the recruiting guru Wulff though.
 
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It speaks volumes to you. You get when he had an opening he hired Wulff. He kept him around for two years. He recommended him to another coach. It easily could be Wulff didn't fit because he had zero midwest ties in recruiting, or there was someone Harbaugh new longer to coach his oline.

Or that he's, just in general, woefully unqualified to coach at Michigan.
 
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Or that he's, just in general, woefully unqualified to coach at Michigan.
Could be a lot of things. It does seem odd to me that HArbaugh let him bring him coffee, then when a former staff member needed an OC he contacted Wulff. Maybe he just didn't have the guts to fire him and pawned him off on someone.
 
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