Marcellus Pippins Tropical Bowl Highlights

[CougEd]

First of all, you sound like how Grinch treats his players that he didn't recruit. A "F" you type of guy. The type of guy I wish I could sock square in the nose. That said, I'm not pissing on WSU so get off my dick jerk!!!

Trips....gotta tell you this is really disappointing coming from you. Hey, I am with you to a point. I thought Pippens was a playmaker. He seemed always around the ball. And I would agree with you or anyone else Pippens and that defense played well enough against Minnesota that despite the mistiming of a pass to the end zone, they should be praised for the way they played and the blame should be elsewhere.

In terms of playing time, in the early 2000's Jason and and Erik Coleman switched off at the corner opposite Marcus Trufant. And it was also that time when Karl Paymah got a ton of reps at the expense of other CB's. All three of those DB's I mentioned went on to the NFL. So there has been times when corners have been rotated in. And none of their friends or family (whom I am sure were disappointed their kid didn't get 75% of the snaps) didn't publicly go after the coach.

I have zero idea why M P didn't get more snaps. Was it something he did or didn't do at practice? I don't know. I wasn't there. Is it because he wasn't a Grinch recruit? Could easily be the answer. You do get MP took over from some kid who was recruited by Wulff and they could easily have been as upset as you when their kid had their time taken away from them. That is what happens when there is a coaching change.

I would bet there isn't a person who played sports that wasn't mishandled by a coach. In baseball I made the All Star team. The best player in the state played the same position I played. My regular season coach became the assistant coach on the All Star team. The coaching staff could have moved me to center, but they chose to move his son out to center and I sat during the All Star tourney.

You know what my father said? Ed, it doesn't seem fair, you had a way better season than the coaches son, and you are a better athlete, and what he did isn't fair. But life isn't fair. This does not define you or how you played or what you can become in the future.

He didn't go off on some public forum, and if the internet and boards were around back then he would never go there to vent. And the anger is yours. To call some one a very derogatory term it may reveal a little more about you. And that to me is disappointing.

I am sorry you feel you need to vent. M Pippens may have been screwed over, but it is now his time to make up for any mistakes that were made. Hell Michael Jordan was cut his soph year in high school. Kurt Warner was cut by several NFL coaches.

Grinch may be the biggest con in the world, but he certainly got the attention of Chip Kelly and Urban Meyers. Maybe he sucks and will lose his job in two years, who knows.

And btw you misquoted what Mike Leach said about MP. He said he may be one of his favorite players of all time, not one of his best players. He did say he maybe one of his quickest players, and what he liked about him is that he never played scared or backed down. But he never said he was one of his best players of all time.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I just want to follow up that even though I bagged on Pippins for the play in the Holiday Bowl, I really do wish the kid the best. He has been a head scratcher for me the past two years. It only seems like there are two times that I noticed Pippins on the field.......1) Showboating or acting like a loon after a big play or 2) Making an egregious mistake.

After thinking about it more, the thing is, neither of those happened all that often. I know that he wasn't on the field as often as he'd like (as we've read here ad nauseum), but it seemed more likely that it was that other teams weren't throwing his way all that often. So, even though I picked on the kid, he does deserve credit for doing a good enough job that other teams didn't feel confident going after him all the time.

I'm not sold on the praise that our multiple personality friend is laying on him, but I do think that he'll get a look and get the opportunity to prove his worth somewhere. Hope he lands a spot.

 

[Coug95man2]

This is, by all my standards, one of the weirdest freakin threads ever.

 

[mister noon]

This is, by all my standards, one of the weirdest freakin threads ever.

agree - but at least we now know why he calls himself sluggo

 

[CougEd]

I'm sure there's other coaches on this board. Do they practice rotating their most experienced and most productive CB every other series? If they do provide the link, source or video. Thank you coach.

Trips...

I'm sure there's other coaches on this board. Do they practice rotating their most experienced and most productive CB every other series? If they do provide the link, source or video. Thank you coach.

Trips...do you want to know why he did rotated them? That is a serious question. I am sure Strong's parents and coach think and thought he was Pac 12 caliber and should be in the rotation. So there are always going to be disenchanted parents. Look up the names Matt Simmons(dad played at WSU and was a decorated police officer before he lost his life in the call of duty if memory serves correct), Brandon Golden, Tyrone Duckett, Daryl Monroe (LB), Spencer Waseem and a bunch of other players who for lack of a better term were run off. Monroe was a two year starter before Pelluer simply made the right play. All the kids I mentioned were Wulff kids, and a former coach (Jim Walden) was very vocal when he thought Leach mistreated them.

The truth is all coaches worry about their career. That is what they get paid for. If so and so is a casualty so be it. That is how big time football is played. (not saying I am in love with it, but I accept it) So the fact Grinch was worried about his job, yeah I get it. It is unfortunate if it came at someone's expense.

In terms of having his time split, does it make more sense for Strong to get time from MP or Moulton? Which will impact the future more? WSU now has two corners with a lot of game experience, so for the future it is a benefit and not costing them a game.

It is telling about their relationship that he would not start him on senior day. There was something there, and it was an FU to MP for not starting him. But where was Leach on this? Why didn't Leach say to Grinch I am overruling you and MP is starting?

Personally, I would rather hear about MP and his future, not something about his past. It clearly brings out an anger in you, so much you would call flat a "Flattott", and I am being nice. You lose cred there, as you do worrying about how he praised Charles White in the video and his effort then Grinch wasn't as excited when MP made a nice play.

You know, I have a daughter who is a premiere defender in bball. But she will make defensive plays I see her make routinely. (but others do not). It is part of her MO. When someone else makes a defensive play they haven't made before (Charles White #4) or they didn't lose contact with the receiver as they have done in the past when they looked back for the ball (#4), I can see why a coach would be excited. It means they got it. Maybe, just maybe Grinch knew Mp already had that in his game. I get more excited when someone else on my daughters team makes a defensive play they haven't before than when my own daughter makes a play.

I get you being angry, but it is appropriate for the OSU board so you can warn them about Grinch. It is history here. I like watching Pippens; what I don't like is the fact you respect me because I see MP's talent but you lack the respect for others who do not. You would rather hear MP is really good than respect those who disagree with you...and I have to be honest I struggle with that.

 

[Cougatron]

And this thread is a classic example of idiot adults trying to live vicariously through kids and having the arrogance to think THEY know what's best for a player than the coach.

Pippins wasn't the only person on the team. There are tons of other players with dreams as well. If a grown adult who hovers around a player only care about that one player then they need to run track and not play a team sport.

Pippins had plenty of playing time. He got plenty of opportunities. Just because your kid isn't the starter every game doesn't mean there is something wrong with the coach. It just means that there are also capable players on the team.

Molton had just as many offers out of school as Pippins. Including Duke, I don't know what grades Pippins had but I doubt it was Duke grades.

Sean Harper is 6'1 and is a lot bigger than Pippins, and he made a great pick against USC playing on the outside.

A team contributes. That's how you win games.

Luani is in the NFL.. don't think Grinch "held him back"
Buchanon is in the NFL... don't think Breske "held him back"
Will Pippins play in the NFL. Well that depends on Pippins. And Grinch didn't hold him back either. Pippins played plenty. He did lots of good things, and he made mistakes. LIKE ALL players do.

The only thing holding Pippins back is pippins and helicopter people who circle around being obnoxious.

 

[Tx64]

Trust me when I say this Ed. I took pleasure in reading your entire post and it spoke volumes brother. I wish others here had an open mind like yourself in regards to the cruel treatment Pippins had to endure under Grinch's tutelage. When it comes to the language I agree I went over board but that nutcase started the name calling first. Showing that he cannot debate without using curse words to get his point across. Where I'm from if you start it I'll finish it. I try my best not to engage into language like that unless someone goes there first. And Mr. Flatline called me a POS prior to my over the top post. That said, because of you and you only I will erase those post with any profanity in them towards a board member. Appreciate the spot on post and knowledge you bring to this site. You should be a moderator here. You have the make up.

Pippins was one of the best kids on the team, if not the most talented. Please let us remember him fondly and continue to cheer him on in the NFL or CFL. Why did not start I do not know, but remember the defense was counting on height and speed. Rotating the corners did two things. One it kept the corners fresh and two it showed recruits they had a good chance of early playing time. The early playing time is one of the few advantages we have over our competition in recruiting.

Please mess with Ohio State University site, maybe it will affect their recruiting and through trickle down maybe we can benefit. I do not know how your posts are affecting our recruits, but I want the best we can get and it is certainly not helping us.

As far as Leach overriding his defensive coordinator on who starts, if he does that he better replace him. As he would be cutting the defensive coordinators legs out from under him.

I remember a time long ago when I was in the press box and our head coach asked me who I wanted in on a certain situation. We were in a desperate situation. I was the receiver coach at the time. I coached both wide receivers and tight ends. Our kids all had positions both on offense and on defense. I told the head coach who I recommended. He though I was nuts, but went with it. The pass to that tight end position worked. It was not one of my normal rotating tight ends, mostly because he was shorter and the starting middle linebacker. What I knew was he was the toughest tight end I had mentally and if anyone was not going to let the desperate situation affect his play it was him. The coach never questioned me again and in fact promoted me. I was the youngest on staff. You see the position coaches work with the players every day and know them more anyone else. I have seen coaches pick a player out of a group and use them as their whipping boy. Why that happens I will never know, but it does. Whether that was Pippins case I do not know. If I were Pippins I would use it to motivate me to prove his position coach was wrong.

 

[Tx64]

Wrong! There's nothing idiotic about telling the truth. It does mean there's something wrong with the coach if he has no respect for his senior player on senior day. You can talk all you want on Grinch's behalf but this is all one needs to know about Grinch's hate toward Pippins. You can talk all that non-sense all you want but when you start a player with an injured hand over a more productive Pippins your hate is telling. When the rubber hit the road Molten had 1 pick in three years starting every game while Pippins had 6 picks in spot duty. Btw, this isn't about GPA and honor role this is about a punk ass coach that mistreated one of his best starter. Luani is a baller. However, it's apples to oranges comparing him under Grinch to Pippins under Grinch. Sir in all respect, you saying Grinch didn't hold Pippins back is like saying Donald J. Trump isn't an idiot. That said, I ask you how many times did Grinch rotate Luani every other series with a back up player???? I'm waiting............

I agree with you on Trump. Luani played a different position. I would ask if Mouton was rotated. As far as Grinch holding Pippins back, you cannot control how other people treat you. you can only control how you respond to it. I had a brother that was mistreated in business. It was over a small bonus. He let it bother him to the point it cost him job, after job, his wife, his kids, his health and his life. If you care anything about Pippins, tell him to not let one person ruin his life. Maybe Pippins will listen to you better than my little brother did. I truly want Pippins to have a happy successful life. It will depend on how he responds to things that happen to him in life. He needs to set his own path and not let other dictate his path.

 

[Tx64]

First of all, your post was very insightful as a Wazzu fan and as a coach. I'm not here to hurt Wazzu's recruiting as I said earlier in this thread I have no ill will towards the football program now that Grinch is gone. That said, I totally agree with your take on why head coaches usually agree with their assistant coaches decision in regards to player personnel. Even though I didn't say anything about Leach in Ed's post I agree with his take on this. In my opinion, I believe Leach should have said allow all the seniors to start on senior day. He didn't have to over throw or demean Grinch if he made it an order for all coaches on his staff. Grinch could have started Pippins and pulled him the next play. Sad as it may have been that may have protected him from some of the scrutiny he's getting now. I coached T.E.'s in high school from 2006-2008 as well. How do you toughen up your TE's when they're kinda soft and scared of contact in the passing game. What drills do you do?

I haven't coached football in last 30 years. I was offered a college job as defensive coordinator for far less money than I was making as a head coach and athletic director at a small Texas HS. I went into administration to take care of my family. With what coaches are making today, I do not know it I made the right decision. No looking back. Football was so different back then. I think we were far better at technique than what we see today. Today it is more strategy.

To answer your question we hit them as they were catching the ball. Off course it as with pads. In all drills I exaggerated the look in. They had to up their nose on the ball. That said,I had TE jump up to catch the ball and have their legs taken out from under them in a game. They looked it in as they were flipped on the heads out of habit. All my receivers were taught it was their ball, if they could not catch it they better make sure the other team did not catch it. It was different time. Kids where a lot tougher and more focused.

I am retired coaching my grandson's soccer team. Learning as I go. These kids are nothing like kids where when I was raising my kids. Their attention span is far shorter, they are usually inside on video games instead of outside playing ball or riding their bikes. I get half way through soccer season every season and think I would never do it again. Then I ask myself who else would do it?

Your job today is far tougher. Bless you.

 

[Tx64]

Sorry to hear that about your brother my friend. In regards to Pippins he's his own man now and he's doing him. I've known him for quite some time and he's always been a great caring kid and now young man. That's why I have a problem with Grinch. He messed over a very good human being. He brings life to the party. He's the kid that will say we can't leave that homeless man dying on the curb. He'll take his favorite shirt off his back and give it to a stranger if they didn't have a shirt at all. He's the young man that will lay low when he's being mistreated and shrug it off. That said, Grinch's mistreatment of him has opened his eyes sorta speak. Being mistreated will change your outlook on a coach quick, fast and in a hurry. It's fair to say he's never had a coach mistreat him prior to Alex Grinch.

Pippins sounds like the kid I have cheered for from afar. I usually have to watch the games on the computer well into the night. He may have his head on straighter than you. Do not let him hear you talk like this. You do not want to give him excuses to fail. He can only control his reaction to want happens in his like. From what little I know about him I would be very proud of whatever he accomplishes and I am sure it will be much.

I have a daughter competing in a tough mans world and she has been very successful, focusing on what she can control and let what she cannot control roll off her back. She is better at that than I am. Like everyone I have had my ups and downs.

Let Pippins know there are many WSU fans all over the country and maybe all over the world that appreciate his accomplishments and wish him well.

 

[Fab5Coug]

First of all, your post was very insightful as a Wazzu fan and as a coach. I'm not here to hurt Wazzu's recruiting as I said earlier in this thread I have no ill will towards the football program now that Grinch is gone. That said, I totally agree with your take on why head coaches usually agree with their assistant coaches decision in regards to player personnel. Even though I didn't say anything about Leach in Ed's post I agree with his take on this. In my opinion, I believe Leach should have said allow all the seniors to start on senior day. He didn't have to over throw or demean Grinch if he made it an order for all coaches on his staff. Grinch could have started Pippins and pulled him the next play. Sad as it may have been that may have protected him from some of the scrutiny he's getting now. I coached T.E.'s in high school from 2006-2008 as well. How do you toughen up your TE's when they're kinda soft and scared of contact in the passing game. What drills do you do?

He's not getting any scrutiny, other than this Pippins vs Grinch battle you've created in your head.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Sorry to hear that about your brother my friend. In regards to Pippins he's his own man now and he's doing him. I've known him for quite some time and he's always been a great caring kid and now young man. That's why I have a problem with Grinch. He messed over a very good human being. He brings life to the party. He's the kid that will say we can't leave that homeless man dying on the curb. He'll take his favorite shirt off his back and give it to a stranger if they didn't have a shirt at all. He's the young man that will lay low when he's being mistreated and shrug it off. That said, Grinch's mistreatment of him has opened his eyes sorta speak. Being mistreated will change your outlook on a coach quick, fast and in a hurry. It's fair to say he's never had a coach mistreat him prior to Alex Grinch.

He's also the kid, nay senior, who is supposed to be a leader on the team and received no less than two taunting penalties for standing over the top of a player on the ground and saying something that warranted a 15 yard penalty. No doubt Grinch put the refs up to it, but the point stands that his immaturity may have contributed to him not starting 100% of the time, and possibly the senior bowl.

Don't get me wrong; by all accounts he seems like a great kid, but his actions on the field at times left something to be desired.

 

[CrimsonDisciple]

I agree with TX. I really like Pippens, love that smile, the dancing, his ability to keep others loose. You being a relative/friend is reflecting badly on him. There is no argument to win here. I think we are all glad that we have Coach Claeys now. What ever beef MP had with Grinch should be between him and Grinch. Why would you want to put him in a situation where he’ll need to answer questions about his attitude towards his coaching staff? Stay off social media until his Professional playing days are over, do him a favor..... you’re not helping him.

 

[Coug90]

Just to prove my point in regards to the disrespect by Grinch in practice here's a practice video that shows he doesn't respect Pippins at all. Even when Pippins makes a great play. Check out this video and you tell me who Grinch is more excited for. #4 makes a good play on an under thrown fade ball to the WR. Grinch goes bat shit crazy when addressing his approval of the play by #4. Marcellus Pippins makes a GREAT interception that only the great ones make on a ball he took away from a WR and Grinch says, "dat a baby Pip" in a soft tone. #19 makes a good play on a late thrown ball and Grinch once again gives the player his approval at the highest pitch of his voice. Take a @1:23:

View embedded media

I actually have always liked Pippins whinch I’ve said several times in these posts. And maybe there is something that happened that got him in Grinch’s doghouse...who knows. But two things about your position and comments above. 1. The talent around Pippins has increased dramatically since he arrived at WSU. Pippins was the only corner that could play when he got there, and now the Cougs are two deep with quality PAC 12 corners. Sometimes when you have enough talent it comes down to matchups...and it made sense to start the bigger corners against Furd because the had huge receivers. 2. You are reaching big time with the video “evidence” above. College coaches don’t have time to think about the type of kuddos they give to each player on each play in practice. You saw snippets of a few plays and jumped to some conclusion that wasn’t there.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Just saw where Harper had the lowest passer rating against in the conference. Strong was 4th. Per pro football focus.

So...yea.

 

[Tx64]

Just saw where Harper had the lowest passer rating against in the conference. Strong was 4th. Per pro football focus.

So...yea.

Where was Pippins?

 

[425cougfan]

Where was Pippins?

Pippins was first in PFF's rating for most emphatic demonstration of the "incomplete" signal after his man was open by 5 yards but dropped the ball. He also came in second in the category of best taunting after making a tackle following a 15-yard play. PFF doesn't award a first place in that category, with it perpetually reserved for Daquawn Brown.

 

[kougkurt]

Pippins was first in PFF's rating for most emphatic demonstration of the "incomplete" signal after his man was open by 5 yards but dropped the ball. He also came in second in the category of best taunting after making a tackle following a 15-yard play. PFF doesn't award a first place in that category, with it perpetually reserved for Daquawn Brown.

Now why did you want to go and say that

 

[425cougfan]

Haha, just messing around regarding some of the fun aspects of Pippins' time for the Cougs. I've actually been one of Pippins' biggest proponents on here over time. I think he was a good player and a playmaker.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The thread wasnt supposed to be about Grinch? You mentioned him 4 times in your initial post.

In any case, have fun. I'm sure your homophobic post earlier will get this thread obliterated soon enough.

I don't get the homophobic comment. I think he was referring to Flat as a girl.
No one has a phobia about people of any group...strictly speaking.

 

[CougEd]

I don't get the homophobic comment. I think he was referring to Flat as a girl.
No one has a phobia about people of any group...strictly speaking.

You are being cynical in your explanation of what he was referring to when he used the f got term, right?

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

You are being cynical in your explanation of what he was referring to when he used the f got term, right?

What ?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

What ?

Troll call him a "bundle of sticks".

 

[CougEd]

What ?

Ummm...when Trips used the term F-ggot....he wasnt calling flat a girl.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Where was Pippins?

They only tweeted out the top 10.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Also, since you're throwing out stats give us the stats on P.I's.

I don't know that anyone compiles that.

By all means, if you're aware of how many PI penalties Sean Harper & Marcus Strong committed, please share.

 

[Coug90]

Pippins wasn't on this list because this is a list for returning players. Washington had the most players on this list at 3. And the list consisted of the top 8 players not 10. But it was a nice try at taking a Grinch like shot at Pippins.

Where would Pippins have landed on this list...had it included Srs? I have no clue BTW, but here’s your shot to prove all the haters wrong.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Pippins wasn't on this list because this is a list for returning players. Washington had the most players on this list at 3. And the list consisted of the top 8 players not 10. But it was a nice try at taking a Grinch like shot at Pippins.

Where does it say on there or in their tweet that it is only returning players?

What was Pippins passer rating when targeted?

And it wasn't meant to be a slam on Pippins actually. It was meant to point out that both Harper & Strong played quite well.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I did a search (but I'm not willing to pay to see what PFF says about Pippins) and the only thing that I found was that PFF's passer rating against him in 2016 was 52.1. That would have put him #4 in the list above just ahead of Marcus Strong IF he repeated it, which we don't have information on.

Pippins is a strange beast and his exuberant nature makes him a bit polarizing. For me, being an old man that yells at kids to get off his lawn, running around signaling an incomplete pass after a receiver dropped a wide open pass is childish......but then again, Jason David, a beloved member of the 2003 Holiday Bowl team, would look at Pippin's trash talk and antics and shake his head at their lack of quantity and volume. That guy never stopped talking. Of course, the biggest difference between David and Pippins is that David had 6 interceptions, 2 pick sixes and a forced fumble as a senior in 2003. Pippins had zero picks and two forced fumbles. Now, David was on the field a lot more than Pippins........but still, Pippins didn't get a single interception.

All of the talk about favoritism, talent, potential or anything else aside, Pippins wasn't making the big plays and generating turnovers in a defense that was geared specifically with that intent. Even if Grinch favored other players over Pippins, it could be more about the fact that 9 guys had more picks than Pippins and that Strong and Harper were just better defenders in 2017. FWIW, both of them were credited with 6 passes deflected to only 1 by Pippins. Again, playing time might have been a factor, but Pippins didn't make the most of his playing time this year and that's too bad. Sometimes, a football player's struggles spiral out of control and if they can't find a way to end the spiral, they find themselves on the bench when they don't think that they belong there. Coaches can be complicit by not trying hard enough to push buttons to encourage improvement, but often, it's because they want the players to show that they have the work ethic and drive to earn it. FWIW, my son quit football after his sophomore season in high school because the coaches basically treated him the way that Pippins has been treated according to our Trojan friend. The thing is, I watched practice a few times and it was the little things that my son slipped on that caused them to leave him behind. Most of the time, it was BS little things: not keeping his helmet on for 30 minutes straight on the sideline while the upperclassmen run drills in 95° heat or kneeling on the sideline for a moment during the same practice. When a coach starts looking for excuses to bag on a player, it's up to the player to up their game or be special if they want to change that opinion. It isn't fair.....but it's football.

I hope that Pippins finds success in the NFL. I hope that he is happy in his life. He'll have the opportunity for a clean start in the next few months where Grinch isn't a factor. Hope he does great.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

We all see what you are saying and there's no doubt that Pippins didn't play as much as he could have. I have no explanation about Molton because he was not good in 2016 and still stayed on the field a lot. I still stand by my previous post. You blame Grinch and say that he had a vendetta, but there could have been reasons (petty, legit or serious) that kept Pippins from playing more. Stuff like not pursuing the play when it's on the other side of the field, taking plays off altogether, being disruptive in practice, half-assing drills during practice. I'm not saying that Pippins did any of those in particular, but I'll say that his production when he was on the field was not good enough to get a coach to overlook other issues that may, or may not, have been there. Having better statistics than Molton isn't the highest bar to clear. Leach made it clear that he appreciated the fun and energy that Pippins brought to practice.......That doesn't mean that was doing a good job in the eyes of his position coach.

Again, if you look back at all of the discussions of Pippins, we all want him to do well. We just aren't sold that he was a Charles Woodson clone that got screwed over by a coach with a vendetta.

 

[Fab5Coug]

Thanks for making my case!!! And let's not act like Pippins doesn't have more career interceptions than Molton, Harper and Strong put together. Molton has 35 career starts to Pippins 31 career starts. Molton has 1 career INT while Pippins has 6.

How do you square these divergent numbers between the two players??? I'm not going to get into the other important stats in regards to their position but I will tell you that Pippins numbers are far better as well as his playmaking ability. Can you explain to us your theory to why he would start over a more productive Pippins since you have a story to tell???

The stats regarding "passer rating against" is misleading. Especially if one player is being targeted more than another. And Pippins was the least targeted Cougar for a reason. He doesn't have a chronic P.I. problem as well as a giving up TD problem.

I envy any starting CB that gets pulled every other series in which impedes his rhythm and flow for the game. Anyone that's played or coached the position knows it's ludicrous to rotate a CB every other series. What type of coach does that??? I'll answer that, "a coach that treats a real game scenario as practice for those that he favors". And we all know Pippins was not one of Grinch's favored.

Even though Pippins was a big part of Grinch's so-called turnover machine in which he produced more than anyone in his position. Pippins was the poster child for doing more with less under Grinch's tutelage as well as his whipping boy. The tactic by Grinch was nothing more than bullying.

Once again, this is why I got into coaching in the first place. I wanted to put a stop to the Grinch's of the world. This unfair treatment of players is why I've released a few coaches from my staff. Imho, these so-called coaches that want their guy to shine even when another player is better hurts the integrity of the game. Once again, thanks for making my case. A real coach.

No, we don't all know that. That's a narrative YOU have brought to the board.

 

[Fab5Coug]

You're on the late train. They've already been proven wrong. The numbers in this debate are on my side not theirs. I ask you the same question I posed to Flat. Pippins has more career interceptions than Molton, Harper and Strong put together. Molton has 35 career starts to Pippins 31 career starts. Molton has 1 career INT while Pippins has 6. While Pippins is being rotated in and out of games every series, Molton isn't subjected to this mistreatment.

How do you square these divergent numbers between the two players??? I'm not going to get into the other important stats in regards to their position but I will tell you that Pippins numbers are far better as well as his playmaking ability. Can you explain to us your theory to why he would start over a more productive Pippins since you have a story to tell us??? And as a coach could you justify your stance to why you start Molton over Pippins??? Thank you much......

It's ironic you feel passer rating against is a flawed statistic because it doesn't factor in how often a player is targeted. Career interceptions though...

 

[Fab5Coug]

And I'm still curious where you're getting the information that the PFF graphic was for returning players only. It does not say that anywhere. If you have the complete rankings, which includes seniors & Pippins, I would be interested to see it.

 

[425cougfan]

I've made my case so since you have a story to tell why don't you tell us the reason Grinch started a less productive Molten over Pippins??? And pull up the stats on this one to support your case. Thank you.

I think we've all seen politics getting in the mix in playing time decisions. I experienced it myself, and I even see it on my kid's 8U baseball team. That said, those are different circumstances ... the coaches aren't in a highly competitive situation where results matter above all else. Nobody really cares too much if 8-year olds lose a baseball game, but the coach does care if he pissed off his good friend or one of the assistant coaches whose kid is on the team. Similar issues with the stuff I went through in my own "glory days," from youth up through high school sports.

In Pac-12 football, though, and especially with a guy who seems pretty calculating (and, at minimum, openly ambitious) like Grinch was, why do you think he would have some kind of unjust vendetta against Pippins if he was the demonstrably superior player? What would he have to gain by playing worse players, especially in a situation where his squad usually was on the wrong side of the talent gap every week and didn't have any room to screw around with that kind of thing?

I might buy an argument that in the very long run, he would stand to benefit by playing "his guy" to help with recruiting. Presumably if Molton played over Pippins and went on to do great (or mediocre, really) things, he'd be a huge advocate of Grinch and could tell future recruits that Grinch did right by him after recruiting him. I don't really buy that, though. Wouldn't he stand to benefit just about as much, if not more, by having "coached up" a guy he didn't even recruit to get on the field and perform at a high level, especially when Pippins had less eligibility remaining, enabling both guys to have "their time" as the starter? (I'm not saying he actually would or could coach Pippins up, but instead talking about what Grinch might see as the end game if he was trying to think about who to favor in PT decisions.) I could also see Grinch wanting to tout Molton getting the chance to play early and staying there, but again, I don't see what he'd really have to gain by playing an inferior player over Pippins after Molton already got to play so much as a true freshman. Further, I think all of these kinds of considerations have to be heavily outweighed by Grinch's desire to put the best defense on the field that he can, not just to "do a good job" but, frankly, to put up better numbers in order to make more money, get promoted, get a better job, and so on.

In particular, with one of Pippins' best skills--relative to the competition--being his ability to get picks (with Grinch constantly talking about the importance of turnovers and touting WSU's capabilities in that regard), I just don't see why he would go out of his way to sit a guy if he's demonstrably better than someone else.

To be clear, none of this is to say that Grinch didn't have a vendetta against Pippins, nor to claim that he was a great coach or anything else. As I said, I always was one of Pippins' biggest fans at WSU. At times, he looked like the only DB capable of getting a pick or making a play. I'm just trying to get you to articulate why you think Grinch would have some kind of vendetta against him. I could see him just not seeing that Pippins was better, for whatever reason, but I don't get why he would go out of his way to limit his PT and hurt his own interests by doing so.

 

[CougEd]

And if we're going to drop names Wazzu's best ever DB Lamont Thompson endorsed Marcellus Pippins and was his High School position coach. Lamont Thompson a beloved member of the 1997 Rose Bowl team doesn't have a problem in the way Pippins plays the game and loves his playmaking ability. And coach Leach didn't have a problem with him either dancing and all. As a matter of fact, Leach did an exclusive interview where he said he welcomes Pippins style and viewed it as a strength of the program. So if the Head coach sees Pippins approach to the game as an asset who cares what Jason David would have to say. This is 2018 not 2003 my friend. Get with the program in regards to how top notch CB's prepare for a game. Have you seen Leach talk about any of the other CB's in this fashion??? If so please provide a link.

Trips...now I have to take exception....Lamont was outstanding but to put him ahead of several Cougs including Trufant might have gone past the train station a bit.

Lamont's greatest strength was his anticipation and closing skills across the middle. And he had great hands. His weakness was run support and his willingness to lay down the hammer. Trufant took away players.

The OC could take away Lamont's greatest strength by locking him up in man and taking him from center field (which he was the best at covering ground in center field) or making him handle the run game in run support.

I gotta go with Marcus on that one. Two other names that need to be mentioned---if not more. Ken Greene was a first round draft pick back in the late 70's and played safety for the Cardinals. I would guess his NFL career was about as long as Lamont's. Another kid was Ricky Reynolds in the mid 80's. He was Trufant before Trufant was Trufant. Then there was Torey Hunter who if he had a lick of size he would have been in the NFL for a long time.

 

[fingerdisco]

Trips...now I have to take exception....Lamont was outstanding but to put him ahead of several Cougs including Trufant might have gone past the train station a bit.

Lamont's greatest strength was his anticipation and closing skills across the middle. And he had great hands. His weakness was run support and his willingness to lay down the hammer. Trufant took away players.

The OC could take away Lamont's greatest strength by locking him up in man and taking him from center field (which he was the best at covering ground in center field) or making him handle the run game in run support.

I gotta go with Marcus on that one. Two other names that need to be mentioned---if not more. Ken Greene was a first round draft pick back in the late 70's and played safety for the Cardinals. I would guess his NFL career was about as long as Lamont's. Another kid was Ricky Reynolds in the mid 80's. He was Trufant before Trufant was Trufant. Then there was Torey Hunter who if he had a lick of size he would have been in the NFL for a long time.

2-time pro bowler James Hasty

 

[Fab5Coug]

I've made my case so since you have a story to tell why don't you tell us the reason Grinch started a less productive Molten over Pippins??? And pull up the stats on this one to support your case. Thank you.

I haven't said a single thing about Molten.

I provided stats to show that Harper & Strong played very well this year. You claimed those stats were incomplete because they did not include seniors. Are you able to prove that? Should be easy enough, since you seem to know that Pippins would have been included otherwise. So, it's very simple, what was Pippin's passer rating when targeted? I honestly don't know what it was, because I can't find it anywhere. You must know though, so please share.

Or, did you just make up the part about seniors not being included?

 

[Fab5Coug]

Trips...now I have to take exception....Lamont was outstanding but to put him ahead of several Cougs including Trufant might have gone past the train station a bit.

Lamont's greatest strength was his anticipation and closing skills across the middle. And he had great hands. His weakness was run support and his willingness to lay down the hammer. Trufant took away players.

The OC could take away Lamont's greatest strength by locking him up in man and taking him from center field (which he was the best at covering ground in center field) or making him handle the run game in run support.

I gotta go with Marcus on that one. Two other names that need to be mentioned---if not more. Ken Greene was a first round draft pick back in the late 70's and played safety for the Cardinals. I would guess his NFL career was about as long as Lamont's. Another kid was Ricky Reynolds in the mid 80's. He was Trufant before Trufant was Trufant. Then there was Torey Hunter who if he had a lick of size he would have been in the NFL for a long time.

"But.....interceptions." - TripsSluggo/CaliTrojan/FootballJunkie probably.

 

[Fab5Coug]

2-time pro bowler James Hasty

All American and first round draft pick Deone Buccanon.

 

[fingerdisco]

All American and first round draft pick Deone Buccanon.

Another good one, but can’t be as good as Lamont because Sluggo didn’t know those guys