New offense

[etowncoug]

Dickert says the new offense will be multiple. Hard to think of a worse offensive plan than this. Unfortunately, it sounds like something an inexperienced HC would do. We give teams a lot to plan for which can drive coordinators nuts. But I don't see us being able to recruit a diverse and talented enough team to get production out of all these slots.

We currently are thin at QB, RB, WR, and OL. I don't see how we improve our standing by allocating a bunch of roster space to TE/H-Backs. Different type of athletes than the rest of the O. It's been more successful to take Cole Madison/Andre Dillard/Abraham Lucas types and make them OL from day 1 rather than trying to keep them at TE and grow them into TE's if that doesn't work out.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Why are people riding so hard for the run & shoot? Asking genuinely.

 

[etowncoug]

Why are people riding so hard for the run & shoot? Asking genuinely.

I'm not so much pining for the RNS (though the offense has been good and I don't see disrupting a successful offense as wise) but a version of 4 wide ace formation offense makes a lot of sense here. Allows us to recruit to fewer positions so we can get solid production rather than recruiting a bunch of specialized players for a multiple roles. Increases the chances of not having enough P5 lineman which causes the entire offense to sputter and stall out.

 

[CougPatrol]

Dickert says the new offense will be multiple. Hard to think of a worse offensive plan than this. Unfortunately, it sounds like something an inexperienced HC would do. We give teams a lot to plan for which can drive coordinators nuts. But I don't see us being able to recruit a diverse and talented enough team to get production out of all these slots.

We currently are thin at QB, RB, WR, and OL. I don't see how we improve our standing by allocating a bunch of roster space to TE/H-Backs. Different type of athletes than the rest of the O. It's been more successful to take Cole Madison/Andre Dillard/Abraham Lucas types and make them OL from day 1 rather than trying to keep them at TE and grow them into TE's if that doesn't work out.

Where do you get that we're thin at QB, RB, and OL? This is college football, and there is roster turnover every season.

• We have JDL, X Ward, and Gabalis returning next season along with a highly regarded incoming recruit. We might also add a portal transfer.
• We have Stribling, Ollie, Bell, Victor, Hobert, Nunnally, Pospisil, and Moore returning at WR
• I count at least 16 OL underclassmen scheduled to return, not counting a couple who might use their COVID year.

Like all programs, we have holes to fill, and of course we have to recruit via high school and the portal, but I don't see us as thin at those positions. Regarding the TE position, my guess is that we'll add one or two kids via the portal. In fact, I think that will be the long term strategy with regard to the TE position. Recruiting OL and turning them into TEs isn't something you're going to see as much of.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

I'm not so much pining for the RNS (though the offense has been good and I don't see disrupting a successful offense as wise) but a version of 4 wide ace formation offense makes a lot of sense here. Allows us to recruit to fewer positions so we can get solid production rather than recruiting a bunch of specialized players for a multiple roles. Increases the chances of not having enough P5 lineman which causes the entire offense to sputter and stall out.

Following you now, I can boogie with the ace formation sentiment.

 

[etowncoug]

Where do you get that we're thin at QB, RB, and OL? This is college football, and there is roster turnover every season.

• We have JDL, X Ward, and Gabalis returning next season along with a highly regarded incoming recruit. We might also add a portal transfer.
• We have Stribling, Ollie, Bell, Victor, Hobert, Nunnally, Pospisil, and Moore returning at WR
• I count at least 16 OL underclassmen scheduled to return, not counting a couple who might use their COVID year.

Like all programs, we have holes to fill, and of course we have to recruit via high school and the portal, but I don't see us as thin at those positions. Regarding the TE position, my guess is that we'll add one or two kids via the portal. In fact, I think that will be the long term strategy with regard to the TE position. Recruiting OL and turning them into TEs isn't something you're going to see as much of.

QB: If De Laura gets hurt we are screwed. Would be nice to get a transfer who can play in an emergency.
RB: Watson is the only guy with experience and he flopped when handed the reigns at Wisconsin. We need to get a lot better here.
WR: Best group of the bunch. Bell, Hobert, Ollie, Stribling, Victor, Moore are scholly guys who should be back. Nunnally probably usurps Quinn in the rotation. There are enough inside receivers in the program to fill in nicely. Probably shouldn't have said this group was thin, though we should recruit 3-4 WR's this year to replace what was lost.
OL: Kingston and Greene are returning starters. Fifita probably slides into a tackle slot. Gomness can fill in nicely at a starting spot. Beyond that we don't have anyone who factored into the mix returning. So we are breaking in a completely new starter next year. Not to mention depth guys in case someone gets hurt like Greene was this year.

 

[roses04]

WE can speculate all we want, Dickert has a plan, his job depends on it, so at this point I have no option but to trust the process and the coaches, it's what he is being paid to do. The Air Raid had limitations if the opposing defense had 3 quality defensive linemen. The Run N Shoot and Air Raid had trouble in the Red zone, Even against the UW we lined up for 5 Field goals, with 3 more TDs we would have put up 50 points. I know that many like these offenses for many good reasons, but they also both had their flaws. If Dickert and Morris have a hybrid that fixes the flaws I am more than willing to watch and see it happen.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Why are people riding so hard for the run & shoot? Asking genuinely.

AR/ RnS caters to what we can actually recruit. Get a good QB1 and some decent WRs and you're golden. Pass blockers are easier (I'm guessing) to get than steak eaters who can move the LoS. You know, more working with what you're given.

I still don't know why OCs are running AR pass route concepts with a healthy dose of RPO mixed in. Seems like the ideal way to keep defenses from dropping 8, and it seems like almost every QB1 can get 6 yards on his feet now.

 

[Coug-Vandal]

Too much of this conversation strikes me as an argument at a bar between music enthusiasts. Is it rock? No its country? No it sounds like the blues to me.....
The point is that hybrids can and do work. I enjoyed the Air Raid but like a lot of us on this list we came to realize that it had to adapt as defenses learned on to stop it. Leach's answer was always just execute better. While execution of any offense is important I think it is clear that Leach's unwillingness to try out hybrids has hurt him. I'm looking forward to seeing what Morris' version look like.

 

[chugspig]

We’re talking the difference of 3-4 spots. We’re going to use TEs who can probably be an H-Back as well. For all we know a couple are probably on the the roster. Hell it can be a second string guard or tackle or DE. These guys know what they are doing.

 

[spongeandshoot]

Too much of this conversation strikes me as an argument at a bar between music enthusiasts. Is it rock? No its country? No it sounds like the blues to me.....
The point is that hybrids can and do work. I enjoyed the Air Raid but like a lot of us on this list we came to realize that it had to adapt as defenses learned on to stop it. Leach's answer was always just execute better. While execution of any offense is important I think it is clear that Leach's unwillingness to try out hybrids has hurt him. I'm looking forward to seeing what Morris' version look like.

I mean if if Gangsta Grass can combine rap with blue grass, we can mix in a TE

 

[CougPatrol]

QB: If De Laura gets hurt we are screwed. Would be nice to get a transfer who can play in an emergency.
RB: Watson is the only guy with experience and he flopped when handed the reigns at Wisconsin. We need to get a lot better here.
WR: Best group of the bunch. Bell, Hobert, Ollie, Stribling, Victor, Moore are scholly guys who should be back. Nunnally probably usurps Quinn in the rotation. There are enough inside receivers in the program to fill in nicely. Probably shouldn't have said this group was thin, though we should recruit 3-4 WR's this year to replace what was lost.
OL: Kingston and Greene are returning starters. Fifita probably slides into a tackle slot. Gomness can fill in nicely at a starting spot. Beyond that we don't have anyone who factored into the mix returning. So we are breaking in a completely new starter next year. Not to mention depth guys in case someone gets hurt like Greene was this year.

I hear what you're saying, but at damn near every level of football, when your starting QB gets hurt, you're in trouble. Our backup Xavier Ward has a lot of buzz around him from within the program. If he's as advertised, we'll have 2 capable QBs. Beyond that, if it gets to a 3rd string kid, yea, we're screwed.

 

[dgibbons]

Dickert says the new offense will be multiple. Hard to think of a worse offensive plan than this. Unfortunately, it sounds like something an inexperienced HC would do. We give teams a lot to plan for which can drive coordinators nuts. But I don't see us being able to recruit a diverse and talented enough team to get production out of all these slots.

We currently are thin at QB, RB, WR, and OL. I don't see how we improve our standing by allocating a bunch of roster space to TE/H-Backs. Different type of athletes than the rest of the O. It's been more successful to take Cole Madison/Andre Dillard/Abraham Lucas types and make them OL from day 1 rather than trying to keep them at TE and grow them into TE's if that doesn't work out.

Oops. Plenty of time for him to rethink.

 

[dgibbons]

Why are people riding so hard for the run & shoot? Asking genuinely.

For me it's not that. "Multiple" offenses are a bad idea at WSU. Why recruit 3-4 TEs/H-backs or whatever that are only going to play 30-40 snaps a game, rather than more OLs, WRs or RBs. At least those guys are going to be on the field all the time.

 

[dgibbons]

WE can speculate all we want, Dickert has a plan, his job depends on it, so at this point I have no option but to trust the process and the coaches, it's what he is being paid to do. The Air Raid had limitations if the opposing defense had 3 quality defensive linemen. The Run N Shoot and Air Raid had trouble in the Red zone, Even against the UW we lined up for 5 Field goals, with 3 more TDs we would have put up 50 points. I know that many like these offenses for many good reasons, but they also both had their flaws. If Dickert and Morris have a hybrid that fixes the flaws I am more than willing to watch and see it happen.

If there were a "perfect" offensive scheme, everyone would run it. We're going to have limitations in any scheme we run because we're not going to have Parade All-Americans four deep at every position to out talent the opponent no matter what.

 

[dgibbons]

We’re talking the difference of 3-4 spots. We’re going to use TEs who can probably be an H-Back as well. For all we know a couple are probably on the the roster. Hell it can be a second string guard or tackle or DE. These guys know what they are doing.

Sure 3-4 spots. But would you rather have not had Madison or Dillard on the roster?

 

[425cougfan]

For me it's not that. "Multiple" offenses are a bad idea at WSU. Why recruit 3-4 TEs/H-backs or whatever that are only going to play 30-40 snaps a game, rather than more OLs, WRs or RBs. At least those guys are going to be on the field all the time.

Consistent with this, at WSU, you need time to develop players, need to play experienced players when possible, and have to accept it requiring more lottery tickets / diamonds in the rough to find those that pan out and can compete with the 4- and 5-star types, usually as upperclassmen. All that cuts in favor of fewer roles and more depth at each.

That's different from the game at USC, where they can go sign a couple 4- or 5-star players who can compete earlier whenever they need them, and they plan to play those guys earlier and lose them to the NFL more frequently.

I'm going to wait and see on this before passing judgment, but in principle, I agree with multiple offenses being a bad fit for WSU's situation relative to most other programs.

 

[CougEd]

I'm not so much pining for the RNS (though the offense has been good and I don't see disrupting a successful offense as wise) but a version of 4 wide ace formation offense makes a lot of sense here. Allows us to recruit to fewer positions so we can get solid production rather than recruiting a bunch of specialized players for a multiple roles. Increases the chances of not having enough P5 lineman which causes the entire offense to sputter and stall out.

The oline thing… how many did leach burn through . What made Leach successful on the oline is when he discovered he made a mistake he didn’t keep them on the roster and take up space for the next four years like Price and Doba did.

The true reason why leach had success on his oline as they stayed healthy and I do believe the sandpit was important .

 

[sellas]

I am old enough to remember all hand wringing over the Run n Shoot. Option routes? QBs and WRs have to be on the same page based on the leverage they see? this going to be a disaster.

going back to Air Raid won't be that big of a deal and making it a little more dynamic than the a pure Leach Air Raid? sign me up.

 

[130talon]

The oline thing… how many did leach burn through . What made Leach successful on the oline is when he discovered he made a mistake he didn’t keep them on the roster and take up space for the next four years like Price and Doba did.

The true reason why leach had success on his oline as they stayed healthy and I do believe the sandpit was important .

Leach Beach hoax is back…cmon! I don’t keep injury stats, but other than RB2 for a game, I can’t think of any lower body injuries this year. From what I perceive, Leach used the sandpit to punish more than train.

 

[mikalalas]

I am old enough to remember all hand wringing over the Run n Shoot. Option routes? QBs and WRs have to be on the same page based on the leverage they see? this going to be a disaster.

going back to Air Raid won't be that big of a deal and making it a little more dynamic than the a pure Leach Air Raid? sign me up.

1. What Dickert said is COACH SPEAK. He said the offense was going to be "Our version", and that we would "Make it out own Coug version, and that it would be a "Coug Raid".

Even tho Dickert said multiple offenses, etc, it's still going to be Morris's hybrid version, of the Air Raid, that's still the Air Raid, that still worked awesomely at IW.

You don't hire a OC, that's a good OC, or a Tedford level OC, pay them about 650k+, and then tell them, dictate that they don't run their offense, and instead run something different.

Morris was hired to run HIS Modified, hybrid, pass and run, run and pass, balanced,1 TE, 3 WR, 1 RB, semi AIR RAIDISH offense.

It's like if WSU would have hired Sonny Dykes to run his Hybrid, balanced Air Raid offense.

It's the Air Raid, that is about 59% to 73% Air Raid. It still has wide splits by OL. It still has 3,4 WR running typical Air Raid Routes. the only difference is that it has a TE, 3 WR's about 1/3, 1/2, 2/3,etc of the time depending on situation. And it runs the ball about 34% to 39.5% of the time, and especially when defense only rushes 2,3,4 drop 7,8, only has 3,4,5 in box.

It's what we wished Leach's Air Raid would do. But now that we are getting that.....

And the multiple offenses, options are CONTINGENCIES, OPTIONS, that are done about 9% to 17% to 33% of the time depending on situation.

So it's still the Air Raid, and I guarantee you that Morris is NOT being told that he is gona change, run his offense differently.

Morris is gona Run his offense, period. And Morris's offense is a hybrid, modified, semi balanced, 1 TE, 3 WR, Air RAIDISH offense, like a Sonny Dykes.

Also 4 OL per year, with 5 OL once every 3,4,5,6 years, 1.5 TE per year via HS or JC, grad transfer, transfer Portal, and 1 TE starter, 1 back up, 1 emergency via either a OL, WR, RB, DE, LB, Safety, etc, that buried elsewhere, etc, will probably work just fine and not be a big deal, as long as Dickert, staff can recruit, evaluate, develop.

If IW can do it, WSU can do it too.

Too much hand wringing, and too much oh woe is WSU, and too much Poor Ole Little Ole WSU, and too much "Since that's the way it's been in the past, That's the way it is now"

Also now that get 25, and 7 transfers, and what with the transfer Portal, and now that WSU is winning more, and has joined big boy football, and has better coaches, better recruiters, evaluators, developers, etc, WSU can do just fine getting 4 OL per year, 5 OL once every 3 to 6 years, 1.5 TE per every 1 to 1.5 year(s)

Stop living in the 1970's, 1980's, 1990, early 2000's, it's 17 to 33 years later, things are semi slightly semi different, new, etc, at WSU now.

Seriously we wished that Leach's Air Raid would adapt to rush 3, drop 8, run the ball more, have a little RPO, 3 to 5 to 7 QB runs, etc, and then when we get an Air Raid offense that gives us that, exactly what we wanted, etc, and complain complain, complain.