NSD Over Early For Cougs - Both Expected Signings Are Complete
- Thread starter ScottHood
- Start date
After 11-2, this is what we get? Not to be too Debbie Downer, but man. I would have hoped that we would have picked up some 4 star kids and finished middle of the PAC. We really have lost our best recruiters.... hopefully with continued success, we can finally turn the corner with recruiting.
Scott, as it stands now with 2 scholies left to give, where do we stand on total scholarships? 83? 82? 81?
This was predictable. We just don't have the margin for error to lose half the staff (Manning and Mastro in particular), and pull ahead in recruiting. Keeping this staff together through the 2020 recruiting cycle will be important.
It's fax.
There are actually quite a few industries that won't accept email/PDFs. Only faxes. I was the POA in an insurance case and dealt with dozens of doctors, insurance companies and, eventually, sorting out collections while insurance companies haggled over who was going to pay. Most of those would only take faxes.
Legislation hasn't caught up with technology.
4 star kids go to 4 star schools. Until WSU builds facilities comparable to schools that get 4 star kids, we will just have to make do with 3 star kids that go 11-2.
Yes, Im aware that WSU has new facilities. Clearly it isnt enough to get 4 star kids to campus.
Oregon has laid out the blueprint on how to get 4 star talent to small town NW schools. Show me the facilites they have that are “just enough?” They dont. Its all glitz, glamor, over the top.
If you want 4 star kids to come to WSU its gonna take more than recruiters and 11 win seasons.
Agree. On top of this, you have our Pullman geography to deal with. 4-star kids get 4-star offers. WSU is now a 4-star program, but we're still new to the party. It'll take time to build that reputation long term. I remember a Big-10 coach, can't remember who it was, that said when you're in a Northern climate, you have to RECRUIT and convince players to come to your school. When you're in the South at a winning program, kids choose you.
WSU has never blueshirted a kid, and probably never will. The rules for blueshirting put WSU at a distinct disadvantage.
Thought it happened with Hunter Mayginnes. Went on scholarship. "one blueshirt in OL Hunter Mayginnes"
HUNTER MAYGINNES
That's the guy I was thinking of.
It seems like there is some luck involved in blue shirting. You need to luck into not recruiting a guy, then luck into having him become available, and have him be worthy of a last second scholarship.
Truth. Then again it’s tough to keep up in the arms race when you’re last in alumni donor $$. Give what you can and tell your other Coug buddies who have the means and aren’t doing their part to shit or get off the pot.
I agree with you, but normally Leach is getting a couple 4 star kids. Kids that want his style of play, or get the small town vibe. We didn’t get any this year.
You cant spend 100 years not giving two shitz about your football program and then all of a sudden decide you wanna play ball and demand your alums donate. The alums commitment reflects the university’s commitment.
WSU has 4 or 5 captive years to create a culture of giving. What are they doing to farm their next alums???
Want more donors???? Get more students. Grow the school to 40,000 kids or more.
Oh brother. Add 10,000 students so that some of them will like football and give big bucks. Good plan.
WSU has been bucking the national trend of enrollment declines by increasing enrollment. How? By lowering academic standards. The numbers back this up. So let's lower standards even more, and get more marginally qualified students, who are inclined to not even graduate, let alone be real successful and become big donors.
And even if these lower quality students graduate and get jobs, it will be 20 years before they have enough money to be able to give substantially. Kind of puts us outside of your 4-5 year window.
Oh and we will have to spend big bucks to accommodate this massive influx of students. Details, details......
Oregon, Stanford, UW have impressive classes. We’re not even in the top 50. In the last couple years we had a bunch of guys with a ton of power 5 offers......not this year. Yeah, I’m a bit concerned. Hopefully Leach pulls something off with the final 3 spots.
Our class is just fine. A long list of 3 star players. Shit take a look at our recent 4 star players. How many are still here? Or have thrived? Our one 4 star receiver left and is where now? Community college?
I'll take our high quality young men over the other guys any day of the week.
You do an amazing job of making up things posters didnt say.
Who cares what the students were or werent in high school? Kids with good grades flunk out of every school in the country. Kids you describe as marginal get all A’s. Im not advocating lowering graduation standards. Sink or swim LC. If they can do the work, great. If not, thanks for coming.
It isnt just donors. Its a packed stadium. Its an economic impact on Pullman. More money means more building all over town. More jobs, more services, more of everything. More opportunity to farm your students into donors for everything on campus.
So yes, grow the size of your enrollment.
WSU doesnt need you LC. You want to hold WSU back. Think of ways to keep it down. Move on to another university.
I would guess that most of those with the means that aren’t doing their part are already off the pot. How do we get them on it?
I'm going to ignore your insults and try to educate you. With facts and links.
First off, you don't just open the door and in they will come. Here are recent admission statistics:
https://ir.wsu.edu/documents/2017/12/new-freshman-applicants-admission-since-fall-2012.xls/
From 2012 to 2017, total freshman applications increased by 8,604. Admitted students increased by 4,844. Students who actually enrolled increased by 516.
BTW, the stats make is appear that WSU is getting more selective, (73% admitted vs 83%), but that is a misleading stat. The academic quality of students who enrolled has declined by pretty much every measure. Oh and out of state enrollment as a % of total has almost doubled. Stats:
https://ir.wsu.edu/documents/2018/04/new-freshmen-profile-pullman-fall-2018.pdf/
The 6 year graduation rate (the most common comparative stat in Higher Ed) has fallen from a high of 69.2% for 2003 freshmen to 58.9% for 2012 freshmen. Back in 2003 we were spending big money trying to improve the academic profile of our incoming students. More recently, not so much. Stats:
https://ir.wsu.edu/documents/2019/0...-graduation-all-pullman-honors-fall-2018.pdf/
So what have we learned? There aren't THAT many more students that even want to come to WSU, even among those who we accept (28% of those we admit, down from 35% in 2012). Our ongoing enrollment increases have also resulted in lower caliber students coming in, and a decreasing % graduating.
So no, Biggs, you don't just wave your crimson wand and get another 10,000 students to show up. And stay. But thanks for allowing me to show you that I know what the F I'm talking about. And can back it up with facts, not blowhardiness. Good day.
I used to feel the same way. But a four year winning team that ends the season as a top ten team and then proceeds to scramble for low three star recruits simply does not compute. There is a point of diminishing returns. I am admittedly disappointed in this class.
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I'm going to ignore your insults and try to educate you. With facts and links.
First off, you don't just open the door and in they will come. Here are recent admission statistics:
https://ir.wsu.edu/documents/2017/12/new-freshman-applicants-admission-since-fall-2012.xls/
From 2012 to 2017, total freshman applications increased by 8,604. Admitted students increased by 4,844. Students who actually enrolled increased by 516.
BTW, the stats make is appear that WSU is getting more selective, (73% admitted vs 83%), but that is a misleading stat. The academic quality of students who enrolled has declined by pretty much every measure. Oh and out of state enrollment as a % of total has almost doubled. Stats:
https://ir.wsu.edu/documents/2018/04/new-freshmen-profile-pullman-fall-2018.pdf/
The 6 year graduation rate (the most common comparative stat in Higher Ed) has fallen from a high of 69.2% for 2003 freshmen to 58.9% for 2012 freshmen. Back in 2003 we were spending big money trying to improve the academic profile of our incoming students. More recently, not so much. Stats:
https://ir.wsu.edu/documents/2019/0...-graduation-all-pullman-honors-fall-2018.pdf/
So what have we learned? There aren't THAT many more students that even want to come to WSU, even among those who we accept (28% of those we admit, down from 35% in 2012). Our ongoing enrollment increases have also resulted in lower caliber students coming in, and a decreasing % graduating.
So no, Biggs, you don't just wave your crimson wand and get another 10,000 students to show up. And stay. But thanks for allowing me to show you that I know what the F I'm talking about. And can back it up with facts, not blowhardiness. Good day.
You still dont know shit. You read my post and made up things I didnt say to reapond to. Youre a dope. Always have been, always will be. WSU is better off without you. Your wife agrees.
Frustration is the best adjective I can think of. As a long time follower of WSU football, it's like what more do you want from us? Four bowls in a row for the first time in school history, culminating in an 11 win season, and you've got to believe that a fifth bowl game is all but guaranteed. We've got a coach with a national reputation. We've got top notch facilities. Guys graduate and largely stay out of trouble. WTF?
A few random thoughts:
1. I've come to the realization that some of this just can't be overcome. For whatever reason recruits will make the inexplicable decision to commit to a school like Cal, and maybe have one Cheez It bowl appearance in their career. There must be 250+ college football players that go to sleep at night regretting turning down WSU.
2. WSU lost its way in the Price to Doba transition by going after the blue chip guys (like Marshawn Lynch), losing out, and not having adequate recruits as fall back options. I do think that Leach has been incrementally improving WSU's recruiting.
3. WSU only took two receivers in this class. Going balls to the wall for 4-5 WRs might have landed a four star or some rivals 5.7 guys that would have us feeling better even if they bolt for JC after less than a semester on campus.
4. We still have very little margin for error. Things like half the staff leaving set us back.
It isnt enough to win. Kids still make decisions based on facilities. Oregon had a great class with a bad team. What they are selling trumps 11 wins.
I'm convinced that if a bunch of high school football recruits went to Las Vegas, the supply of kidneys available on the black market would spike.
You will bucking the trend. With the college expense, lack of kids that can fix crap like cars and other trades, online classes you will see in the next 10/15 years that universities will get smaller, not bigger.
Harvard lowered their standards because they couldn't fill their class because kids are looking at other options.
Now you want to fund raise. Good friend of mine is a Michigan alumni and very affluen. He just told me Michigan just raised 6.2 billion for their endowment fund. Now that is fundraising.
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Regarding points 1 and 4, I think when it comes down to it, kids don't care about winning as much as they care about many other things, such as getting to the NFL (most important), what their friends and parents think, academic reputation and post-graduation network, perceived availability of things to do, and so on. They'd never say that, but it seems quite clear from their collective decisionmaking. As for WSU winning, it's necessary but not sufficient, consistent with your point about a low margin for error. Winning 11 games this year helped in recruiting, even though it doesn't look like it from the results. If WSU was Oregon State-level bad and had the kind of coaching turnover that it did, a borderline disaster class was probably in the cards.
On the NFL point, other schools have been able to convince recruits that they have a better shot at helping them get to the NFL, pointing to their superior numbers in that regard. This is a chicken-and-egg issue, though, with WSU's primary problem not that it can't help develop players in a way that will get them to the NFL, but that it's not bringing (much) NFL talent in the door in the first place. Kids see, accurately, that they can go to Cal or UCLA and that even if the team sucks -- which, I can assure you, is always pitched as temporary, with WSU being characterized as a flash in the plan that will come back to earth -- those schools are still placing more players in the NFL. Hopefully this will change over time, but it's not going to be easy. It's going to take a lot of Dillards. We've seen that some one-off examples like Deone haven't really moved the needle.
I don't mean to be too defeatist ... I think it's possible to change the reputation of WSU into something closer to a Kansas State or Oklahoma State (a rural land-grant school that has some bigger schools in its conference, or even its state, but that has some ongoing national-level success and a solid program), but I think it would take at least another few years of seasons like we've seen in the past four to even start that to be the pitch. Right now WSU is instead characterized as an underprivileged program that has temporarily punched above its weight class due to a quirky coach running a "gimmick" offense, with that liable to change quickly and for it to become closer to the current version of Oregon State if Leach leaves or if his "luck" at QB runs out. That's not even close to a proper explanation, but I'm sure that's the narrative.
