Actually you were the one who was saying how we had good D ends that should have stopped the dive play when Matt E was 15 yds down field on his back. That's moronic.
Offensive numbers...
- Thread starter Coug95man2
- Start date
I can see basic math isn't your specialty
1978 - 3-7-1
1979 - 3-8
1980 - 4-7
that's 10 -22 -1 .3125 win %
Leach
2012 - 3-9
2013 - 6-7
2014 - 3-9
12 - 25 - .324 % with a bowl game appearance.
So Leach was better than Walden's first 3 and took us to a bowl game.
You said DE's NEVER stop dive plays, which was ridiculous. Just own your stupidity, and go from there.
I said they aren't responsible for stopping dive plays. If you ever played a down of football, you would know that each position has a set of responsibilities. Doesn't mean it never happens..but that is not his responsibility
I suppose if you're not aware of what I said, why would you be aware of what you said?
Able to square your Walden sources with the NCAA's sources which don't agree yet?
Figured it out for you- the two forfeit wins he got in '79 were factored in by one stat house, but not another. Whatever- that's 25% of his wins in three years... that he actually lost, but OK.
Those records probably get a bit blurry after some Spinge drinking.
Spongeboob's source likely is Wikipedia, which fails to account for the fact Oregon was forced to forfeit its 31-7 win in '78, which magically transformed 3-7-1 to 4-6-1. And the 5-6 record he cites ignores that ASU and Oregon in 1979 had to forfeit wins over WSU that year, which changed 3-8 to 5-6.
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The source I had said we won the Oregon game in 78...didn't check the others.
In any case, let's use yours and Trons number. He said Walden was twice as bad..yet won 2 fewer games...with Leach having 3 more ganesbover the time period.
Then he talks about the Magical New Mexico season where we were .500.
I wonder what you 2 will say if we fail to win 8 games this yr like Walden did.
Well, you got me- I have no response to whatever the hell this typographical abortion is trying to say.
I don't know what I'll say if Leach doesn't win eight games this year. I'm not going to base my opinion on concerns of how other people will see it, though. A second bowl game in his first four years, I'd be happy with- has any other coach in our history done that?
So, when we talk about "Walden took over a team that hadn't been to a bowl in five decades!", then we're NOT supposed to consider bowl proliferation, and how that's not really accurate about Walden- but when WSU goes a decade without any bowl, in the "Greg Focker era" (and if you're gonna keep using it, spell it right! It was right in the title of one of the movies...) that's not an indication of, say, the struggles of the previous coaching staff- just means Leach got a few more juice boxes open.
The spelling Police to go along with the hall pass monitors around here.
The whole point is that many trash Walden...and Tron likes to trash Price while simultaneously building a shrine to Leach...but those two won 8 and 9 games respectively in yr 4...and Leach hasn't done crap.
We had a losing record in 2013. Hello!!
How many people trash Walden for his coaching? No, I think it's mostly his "Old Man Yells at Cloud" act that's drawn criticism.
The spelling police don't show up unless there's a spelling crime.
We also had losing records a lot of years before 2013- and those were all decided PRIOR to the bowl games we never got invited to- not even a "Meet the Fockers Bowl".
See, I see taking a team to its first bowl in a decade, with huge road wins, as "doing something", catastrophic last two minutes of a game we were the better team in notwithstanding. Not doing everything, but definitely it's something. As for coaches who hadn't done crap... that was the guy who crafted the beautiful sand foundation for last year's nose dive.
See, '79 UO and ASU lost their innocence, and stopped building it the right way.Those records probably get a bit blurry after some Spinge drinking.
Spongeboob's source likely is Wikipedia, which fails to account for the fact Oregon was forced to forfeit its 31-7 win in '78, which magically transformed 3-7-1 to 4-6-1. And the 5-6 record he cites ignores that ASU and Oregon in 1979 had to forfeit wins over WSU that year, which changed 3-8 to 5-6.
Wait a minute...so Leach gets put on a pedestal for the magical 6-7 campaign, but last yr, complete with enough follies to fill a 60 minute highlight reel set to circus music, was Wullf's fault?
That makes zero sense. I'm sure it will be Wulff's fault if we go 4-8 this yr, too.
As to the points about what happened in 79, I wasn't watching WSU football then...but apparently Nanookie was..so that would actually make him old enough to be the grandparent of the ladies in my pic he is so fond of commenting on.
Lord, you so desperately want to argue what you'd HOPED I said, but, again- no, I didn't claim Wulff was responsible for last year- I was contesting your "hadn't done crap" contention. Of our last two coaches, there's one who hadn't, wouldn't, couldn't, DIDN'T- ever do crap (and since, he's an embarrassing recruiter, he actually did do crap that one time at Waseem's) and it's not the coach we have now.
Even if you had used the proper spelling, it still wouldn't be funny.
Sponge means Focker. As in Ben Stiller's character in the Meet the Fockers movies.
The whole point of the history lesson is that we've had something similar happen on rebuilds/coaches in WSU history who are celebrated for their achievements... even though I personally don't think Walden was that good I do acknowledge Price's achievements, but I also actually remember the struggles he had in between the good seasons.
That's the whole point to show mentally challenged people like yourself that this pattern of some struggles early is actually pretty common, AND given the dumpster fire Leach was handed it's no surprise.
Number of wins in 3 years.
Price - 13 -----Breakout year - 4
Leach - 12 -----Breakout year - 4?5? who knows
Walden - 10 ----- Breakout year - Year 4
Price took over a 9-3 team, Walden a 6-5, and Leach a 4-7
So where is Leach in the whole process? Right where historically he should be.
He may actually be higher than where he should be given the following.
Number of wins over 4 years from predecessors:
Price - 19
Walden - 14
Leach - 9
So when you come in here and cry about Leach you kind of look like a damn fool Sponge.
From a historical perspective Leach in 3 years is just 1 game short of Price despite having half the wins from a 4 year recruiting cycle and was ahead of Walden who walked in to a situation where the program had 5 more wins.
What will YOU do if we win 8 games this year? I don't know how many we will win, but it won't surprise me if we do. Are you going to have a stroke or heart attack when your simple brain realizes you've been acting like an idiot this whole time and were wrong?
And if you are like "Oh we have a new QB blah blah blah"
Here's the numbers on new starting QBs walking into the Leach system
Rk Player Cmp Att Pct Yds Y/A AY/A TD Int Rate
2003 - B.J. Symons 470 719 65.4 5833 8.1 8.2 52 22 151.3 Record (8-5)
2004 - Sonny Cumbie 421 642 65.6 4742 7.4 7.1 32 18 138. Record (8-4) He's TCUs OC btw
2005 - Cody Hodges 353 531 66.5 4197 7.9 8.1 31 12 147.6 (9-3)
2006 - Graham Harrell 412 617 66.8 4555 7.4 7.8 38 11 145.5 (8-5)
Over a 4 year span Leach started a new QB every single year and won 8 games.
And of course for reference here's Halliday
2013 - Connor Halliday 449 714 62.9 4597 6.4 6.0 34 22 126.5
2014 - Connor Halliday 354 526 67.3 3873 7.4 7.6 32 11 145.0
Halliday was actually on track to do just as well if not better than some of Leach's QBs, but...special teams and defense were bad...those coaches are gone...and the offense won't suck this year...as it just kind of keeps rolling under Leach once he has his guys trained.
If our special teams / defense are just serviceable we will win 8 this year. That's the difference in 8 wins. special teams / defense.
Newsflash: Leach is not at Tech anymore.
He'd averaged 4 wins a season since arriving...and while my opinion may be the minority here as I'm not a Kool aid drinker, if you people actually step away from the computer and have some real life interactions with Cougar fans, they will say they that Leach has been a dissapoinment so far.
Only a fool can defend last yrs performance.
Almost doubling his predecessor.
SMU had the death penalty. Marshall had the plane crash. WSU had Paul Wulff.
and only a bigger fool can keep up the expectations angle EDnauseum, the results thus far have been disappointing, Leach has not been IMO because of the fact that he had to follow your icon and clean up his mess
Guess what? None of us are Kool Aid drinkers either. There are always people that are happy, neutral or disappointed. We all tend to hang out with people that are of the same mind as us. So, that the Cougar fans that you are around are disappointed in Leach is not a surprise.
Plus, with as adamant that you are in your convictions that Leach has been a disappointment, I am guessing that when you are with other Cougar fans that may disagree with you, they will shake their head yes to avoid any confrontation.
I've been saying this all along. Not news to me.
Never pegged you for a social engineer 1990
We've been told ad nauseum by people like you on this board that this is big time football and we need to put away the juice boxes and orange slices...so when we have higher expectations, the same people are jumping up and down when we expect more than 3 and 9 and film that will rival any football follies NFL films could produce.
So, your higher expectations are purely linked to other people's demands that you raise your expectations?
Criminy, I couldn't make this stuff up if I tried to imagine you coming up with the worst possible justification.
Well, just like a lot of people that are WSU graduates, I am well read and intelligent. I think you are intelligent as well. Wrong about things, but intelligent nonetheless.
News Flash average number of wins since arriving after 3 years
Price 4.3
Leach 4
Walden 3.3
It has nothing to do with being a kool aid drinker it has everything to do with you being an idiot, and reasonable people with a brain disagreeing with your stupidity.
Based on YOUR logic of wins early in a program without an actual reference for the previous 4 years of recruiting and YOUR claims.
Mike Price wasn't going to get it done.
Walden wasn't going to get it done.
Leach wasn't going to get it done
This is clear. You can't back out of this with your logic, and say no no I didn't think that about Price. Nope. YOUR logic is supporting a coach averaging 4 wins the first 3 years is drinking kool-aid. YOUR logic is Mike Price was a disappointment, Walden was a disappointment. That's YOUR logic.
I've taken a short sabbatical, refreshed the brain and back, not to fan any flames here but to point this out. Kinda long but had time to think, too.
1. But your brother, in this exact thread, has used Tech as an analogy, so why can't someone else? You even defended Ed on this point. Now using Tech isn't good? Come on, Sponge. I only bring this up because I'm going paragraph by paragraph.
2. I agree. Last year was a disappointment. But reality sometimes is. But that's where some (dare I say most) have stepped back, looked at numbers (and that does mean comparing the previous regime(s), like it or not), and are willing to see that this wasn't going to be instantaneous. The problem some have is, that's what they were saying on this board about Wulff, almost to a tee. Hence your "juice boxes and orange slices" reference. So it seems like a bunch of hypocrites defending CML when Wulff was getting sandbagged. Not taking sides on that one. Before my time on this board. But IMHO, if we could go back in time, I think Moos did the correct thing. Hiring CML was exactly what he should have done. So I'm happy. But make no mistake, for those of us that aren't invested in this 6 year fight, we all see that this is the cornerstone to this continual bitch fest.
3. No one is defending last year. Some (me included) might be trying to look at it from the "glass half full" perspective and because of point #2 above, you and others are instantly thinking we are all defending CML. We had a crap first year with CML. I'm OK with that. He was cleaning house, sort of speak. As I've said over and over, BYU was my eye opener. Second year, pretty good except the last 2 minutes of the bowl game. All mental, our achilles heal for decades. Last year, meh. Disappointment due to lack of improvement in the W column for a variety of reasons but can still see improvement in other areas. But I will also point out, I'm in agreement with you regarding Walden, that rabbit trail that got brought up earlier in this thread. And I'll also use that as an analogy, Sponge. Walden did quite a bit for WSU, you and I agree there. The W column didn't quite show it, though, did it? I'd suggest that might be the same with CML. So I'd suggest looking at it from a "Walden viewpoint". No one is putting CML on a pedestal or thinking he's a god. But many of us are giving him the benefit of the doubt. It seems like you and a couple others aren't because when Wulff was around, no one was giving him the same benefit of the doubt. Sometimes you say you're behind CML, but when numbers come out, you guys actually fight against giving CML the benefit of the doubt. So I don't know what you really think about CML. I think that's another branch of this, almost 6 year fight.
Ultimately, this year, WSU has to really show us something. Improvement is required, in some form. Otherwise I can see most of us sharpening our pitchforks. If 2015 hurts then in 2016, CML is against a wall. GOTTA show us something. Where do bowl appearances fit into this? No idea.
I guess I'm trying to put up a white flag, here Sponge. I get where all this angst is coming from. Isn't there a way to get past, what seems like ill-feelings about how others on this board treated CPW "back in the day"? If CPW is ever brought up, do we have to hijack every thread and bring up the same, exact fight? Do you or Ed (Fishie, I swear just likes to argue. As long as it's against Yaki or Biggs, he won't even think, just argue against them. Seems like pure emotion. So I won't lump him in with you guys) have to have the last word on CPW? Analogies between CML and CPW are useless. Number comparisons are used to see possible/potential improvement or decline. So to do this whole, "You gotta treat CML the same way you guys treated CPW." thing isn't accurate. And even if it is, how many years do we have to hold onto this?
Alright, done. Just tired of the exact same argument, month after month for the past 4-6 years. We gotta find a way past this BS. I'm tired of wondering, "If I post this, will it bring up that fight again?"
Can't say I have an issue with anything you posted. I didn't bring up Wulff, however. Wulffui did, although not by name when we were discussing last yrs crapfest...so I simply responded.
I also think Leach was the perfect hire. I think many, including myself thought Lubbock equals Pullman.
What many, including myself didn't take into consideration is the fact that taking leftovers in Texas is still pretty damn good talent.
We'll see on the field, especually on D if he was able to recruit any speed. That is where I am not optimistic.
Mike Price won 6 games his 1st yr, dumbass...and had an offense that wasn't so easy to defend..so no, I never said that about Price(or Walden for that matter)
I said that Leach wouldn't get it done because BYU showed how easy this offense is to defend. Drop 8 in coverage and call it a day.
And if we continue to throw the ball 60 plus times a game, we won't win more than 5 games.
Also, you could see that Price had some athletes on the field. I don't see anyone in the back 7 except White so I think your prediction of 8 wins jives with your kool aid drinking.
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