Optimism about this football season....

[CougEd]

Yeah, the thing about the contract? I just posted on another thread… We have CML, AT LEAST, through 2017 possibly through 2018. His roll-over contract is through 2019. I can see us buying out a year, possibly 2 but that's all. We can all be pissed if we want if certain outcomes don't happen. Or we can enjoy the ride or whatever else in-between. But we aren't getting out of any contract any time soon.

My guess is what will happen if things don't look vastly improved they will have the dog and pony show and say his contract will be rolled over, but my guess is there will be a provision where the buyout is like 1/3 the value of the year that was extended. Much rather have the guy succeed, have ten great seasons and then ride off in the sunset.

 

[MRICoug]

My guess is what will happen if things don't look vastly improved they will have the dog and pony show and say his contract will be rolled over, but my guess is there will be a provision where the buyout is like 1/3 the value of the year that was extended. Much rather have the guy succeed, have ten great seasons and then ride off in the sunset.

I thought the buyout was reduced with each rollover applied. At least that was what I thought I had read.

 

[Cougatron]

I thought the buyout was reduced with each rollover applied. At least that was what I thought I had read.

No. the buyout is always reset.
Basically here's how it works. Every year on Jan 1st a rollover happens. Extending his contract.
No matter what we have to pay Leach 60% of his remaining contract to terminate. It never gets reduced.
Also the buyout for someone stealing Leach from us 2.25 Million is reset so if someone wants him they have to pay the full price.

Leach isn't going anywhere. It's in everyone's best interest to support him.

 

[Coug95man2]

My guess is what will happen if things don't look vastly improved they will have the dog and pony show and say his contract will be rolled over, but my guess is there will be a provision where the buyout is like 1/3 the value of the year that was extended. Much rather have the guy succeed, have ten great seasons and then ride off in the sunset.

Agreed, would much rather have him succeed!!!! But I don't know how the contract will be changed with such a provision. That wouldn't be in CML's best interest so I don't see him agreeing to such. Why would he make it easier for him to be fired? EDIT: Easier for him to be fired, AND less money to boot? That makes NO sense...

 

[CougEd]

Agreed, would much rather have him succeed!!!! But I don't know how the contract will be changed with such a provision. That wouldn't be in CML's best interest so I don't see him agreeing to such. Why would he make it easier for him to be fired? EDIT: Easier for him to be fired, AND less money to boot? That makes NO sense...

Cause if he struggles in 2015 he will not have a choice. He will not be in a position to bargain. He would do it for recruiting purposes and not appear to be a coach on the hot seat, a lame duck if you will.

The rollover just means the contract isn't a five year deal anymore. That is a one sided deal, at the discretion of the AD.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Cause if he struggles in 2015 he will not have a choice. He will not be in a position to bargain. He would do it for recruiting purposes and not appear to be a coach on the hot seat, a lame duck if you will.

The rollover just means the contract isn't a five year deal anymore. That is a one sided deal, at the discretion of the AD.

If anything, this was a one sided deal in Leach's favor. I know that it was structured this way to let Mike Leach know that Moos and Floyd had complete faith in him, but it was a moronic contract to agree to. Normally, you see these rolling contracts when a coach has proven that there really is no one else you'd rather have. Synder has a rolling contract at KSU for instance. They know the ride is over once he leaves. Not much point in getting worked up about it though.

 

[Coug95man2]

If anything, this was a one sided deal in Leach's favor. I know that it was structured this way to let Mike Leach know that Moos and Floyd had complete faith in him, but it was a moronic contract to agree to. Normally, you see these rolling contracts when a coach has proven that there really is no one else you'd rather have. Synder has a rolling contract at KSU for instance. They know the ride is over once he leaves. Not much point in getting worked up about it though.

Yeah, I'm with Flat on this one. Even if we have the worst case scenario and WSU has 1 win seasons the next 3 years straight… why would CML change the contract? Because Moos wants him to? He has zero incentive to sign anything. He'll do the best he can, he'll earn his dough and as soon as WSU can buy him out, they will. But the contract isn't changing, IMHO. I just don't see any reason it would. We have CML for, a minimum of 3 more years regardless of our W/L column. Settle in, get cozy, enjoy the ride.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Yeah, I'm with Flat on this one. Even if we have the worst case scenario and WSU has 1 win seasons the next 3 years straight… why would CML change the contract? Because Moos wants him to? He has zero incentive to sign anything. He'll do the best he can, he'll earn his dough and as soon as WSU can buy him out, they will. But the contract isn't changing, IMHO. I just don't see any reason it would. We have CML for, a minimum of 3 more years regardless of our W/L column. Settle in, get cozy, enjoy the ride.

The good news is that I honestly feel that things are going to get better quickly. As frustrating as last year was, we were a muffed punt against Rutgers, two missed field goals against Nevada, a missed field goal against Cal and a missed PI call against Oregon from being in the position to be 6-0 last year. One or two mistakes per game made the difference. That doesn't include the other opportunities that we missed that could have made those games easy victories. I believe that we would have beaten Stanford last year if our team had gone into the game with a 5-1 or 6-0 record and some confidence. I'm not going to pretend that we would have beaten Arizona or USC because they boatraced us, but I could see us beating ASU if we had been 7-3 as opposed to 3-7. Given the way that UW played against confident (and good) teams last year, I could see us not sleepwalking through the Apple Cup.

As frustrated as I have been at times with the way that our team has played with Leach as coach, you can see that even with all of our flaws, we are close to getting where we want to be. Of course, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, so getting there still needs to be done. I don't believe that we'll be stuck with Leach for three more years. I think we'll be happy to have him for 10 more years. (note: that doesn't mean I wouldn't fire his a$$ if we continue to finish 3-9 very often).

 

[Coug95man2]

The good news is that I honestly feel that things are going to get better quickly. As frustrating as last year was, we were a muffed punt against Rutgers, two missed field goals against Nevada, a missed field goal against Cal and a missed PI call against Oregon from being in the position to be 6-0 last year. One or two mistakes per game made the difference. That doesn't include the other opportunities that we missed that could have made those games easy victories. I believe that we would have beaten Stanford last year if our team had gone into the game with a 5-1 or 6-0 record and some confidence. I'm not going to pretend that we would have beaten Arizona or USC because they boatraced us, but I could see us beating ASU if we had been 7-3 as opposed to 3-7. Given the way that UW played against confident (and good) teams last year, I could see us not sleepwalking through the Apple Cup.

As frustrated as I have been at times with the way that our team has played with Leach as coach, you can see that even with all of our flaws, we are close to getting where we want to be. Of course, close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades, so getting there still needs to be done. I don't believe that we'll be stuck with Leach for three more years. I think we'll be happy to have him for 10 more years. (note: that doesn't mean I wouldn't fire his a$$ if we continue to finish 3-9 very often).

I think you've touched on something that has always been in the back of my mind, in this regard. If CML brings us back to a sort of relevancy. Might get a 3-9 every once in a while but we get a run at 7 to 9 wins too. Price redu kinda thing. I remember hearing for Prices head during those down years… Do we fire him because of the 3-9 season? I guess my question is… At what point are we happy? And at what point are we up'ing our expectations and we start approaching Texas and Mack style expectations. It seems equally prevalent that when fans expect more, that they are worse off than before. I'd submit that WSU has more tendency to slip that excel. So where does CML fail and we risk (yes I will say "risk" because of all the issues WSU has) a new hire? And the reason I ask this is… in my view we've improved in so many ways. And like you say, we're on the cusp, IMHO. But if we only get 6 wins and some crappy little bowl, will rumblings start up? With our history, that would be a sad state of affairs, IMO.

And as a followup to that, in a less than accurate way of asking it… if CML doesn't meet expectations, who would want to come to WSU that would be better?

And so in that light, for those that are concerned about CML's rollover contract, I don't think we have a real option, do we? I mean, we are "all in" with CML. Because if we can't succeed with CML, or if fans get too picky and start calling for his head when IMHO we've made huge strides, I believe we'll be in a worse pickle than we've ever been in.

 

[Cougatron]

Because if we can't succeed with CML, or if fans get too picky and start calling for his head when IMHO we've made huge strides, I believe we'll be in a worse pickle than we've ever been in.

I couldn't agree more with what you said Coug95 I feel the same way. People talk about expectations, and while Moos himself said we need to raise our expectations I think that was both a good, and a dangerous thing to say.

From where we were after Wulff it was clear everyone was unhappy with the constant losing. But the new expectation should have been to understand where we were as a program and what the stages are for success. You have to crawl before you can walk, and you have to walk before you run.

For us as a program the goal should have been fielding a Pac-12 competitive roster, getting to a bowl game, and being capable of beating Pac-12 opponents. THAT is the first raise in expectations.

Success is the small things that add up to the big things. Not just walking in and expecting big things.

So after those first few goals which I think Leach has accomplished for the most part. (Still would like to see a competitive defense and special teams) the next step is consistency.

Can we consistently go to the post season? Not talking rose bowl...just bowl games. So the next goal is 6 win seasons regularly. Can we do that? Leach has done it once. Good...now let's see if he can do it again. Start with every other year...then every year.

Okay from there the new expectation is compete for the Pac-12 North title. Can we compete to win that. Then from there it is win the Pac 12 and then Rose Bowl/BCS etc. etc.

That's the process. That should be the expectations. It doesn't take long to ruin progress, but it takes a long time to achieve it and as a fan base we need to mindful of that.

 

[GoldenCoug]

Always fun to play at this time before the season. I am not that optimistic, but I think we can bounce back if we get some defense, and special teams improvement. As far as Halliday vs Falk I understand the tendency to think that Luke will be an actual improvement however he does not have the arm talent that Connor had. He will be more restrained in what he can do with the out routes and he just does not have as much zip on the ball , but most others don't either. So while he does not have the arm strength one thing Luke does have is better mobility,and a inclination to use it. So I see him running when the defense rushes 3 and drops off, he will take those easy 7 yard runs. Falk does seem to be mentally built for this system, and will take what the defense gives him more than Connor in my opinion. That will mean and improved running game.

Special teams has to improve and as mentioned by others just an adequate FG kicker and we will be much improved there.

On D I see our D Line as slightly less than last season but still good. By the end of the season they could be better than last year but not to start. Linebackers are a strength in my view with Allison, Pelluer, and the new guys coming into play. Secondary is the key. If we have real improvement there,and create turnovers it will add greatly to the team. So here is my prediction at this point.

PSU W and it will be a blow out. Maybe 62 to 13
Rutgers W could be close, but it could also be one sided for the Cougs if we jump on top.
Wyoming W From what I have read they are really not close on talent. Good coach however.
Cal L I am not that impressed with Goff. I see him make bad decisions when pressured and yes he has big games but not impressed. Still good enough to win though.
Oregon L Vernon Adams is good, and Oregon has a lot of talent. We don't win in Autzen this year.
Oregon St W We are much more talented, jump on them early and win big
Arizona L May not be close. Arizona is not good defensively and they have a new O Line, but I don't think we win this one.
Stanford L I don't think they are as good with all the personnel they have lost.It however will be tough to get over the hump in this one and win.
ASU L I can't stand Todd Graham and ASU but until we beat them or come close I can't predict a win for the Cougs
UCLA L It will be closer than you would think however. We usually play well in the Rose Bowl.
CU W But this one will be close. CU is improving and Leach's record against CU is horrible (T Tech) Always found a way to lose to them.
UW L Could be way wrong here and I hope I am.

So 5 wins which sucks but it is hard to change those Red games to Black. We have a chance in Tuscon, and Berkley but they are on the Road. UW could be a win but what is our record winning in Husky stadium?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The last two comments are the bright side to the contract we've signed. It forces us to be sure that we have to change.

The University of Kansas is the most glaring current example of the problem with getting impatient and greedy. They "had" to fire Mangino because of his off-the-field and sideline issues. The man had serious anger management problems and they weren't acceptable when KU wasn't finishing 12-1. They hired Turner Gill (a potential WSU job candidate) and KU went from 5-7 in Mangino's last season to 5-19 under Turner Gill. Fired him and hired Weiss and went 1-11 before posting back to back 3-9 seasons. They are projected to win fewer than three games this year. The only game that they will be favored in will be against FCS South Dakota State and I will not be surprised if they lose that game and finish 0-12. The drive to get better has continued to bury the Jayhawks. While they were probably a slightly better team under Charlie Weiss than they were with Gill as coach, they were always irrelevant.

Iowa State is another example. Dan McCarney is an example of when being patient didn't provide long term success. It took six years and Seneca Wallace for Iowa State to finish 9-3. They bounced around the 7 win mark for a few years and McCarney got canned as soon as they didn't make a bowl game. Iowa State fans expected more. In the 8 years since McCarney got canned, Iowa State has only reached 7 wins one time. You can bet that they would be happy with a 7-5 finish this year.

So, while I do complain and worry about Leach, I absolutely want him to win because I know that the alternative could be a lot worse if we don't have him.

 

[702coug]

Re-watching some games from last year and realized how many tackles and saves Daquawn Brown had. A little concerning. Hope some of the new crew picks up where he left off. The secondary is the variable regarding this upcoming season. Looking forward to seeing how some of the new recruits and JC transfers fit in. I have faith the offense will put up numbers, and I like Falk's style-kid seems serious about his ball play and game prep. Also keeps his emotions in check (ahem...). Just a little improvement in special teams will go a long way this season. Love the new coaches and the attitudes. Can't wait for practices to start!

 

[MikeFingLeach]

David Lombardi from ESPN P12 blog called WSU the biggest threat in the P12 North outside of UO and Furd. Cited our offensive line and more balanced attack on offense. Obvious concerns are d and special teams, but it's nice to see someone is paying attention at ESPN.

 

[Cougatron]

David Lombardi from ESPN P12 blog called WSU the biggest threat in the P12 North outside of UO and Furd. Cited our offensive line and more balanced attack on offense. Obvious concerns are d and special teams, but it's nice to see someone is paying attention at ESPN.

I was just reading that.

He definitely has been paying attention.

 

[froropmkr72]

I was just reading that.

He definitely has been paying attention.

I won't believe the 25% under center prediction until I see it.

 

[Cougatron]

I won't believe the 25% under center prediction until I see it.

You can read the article about it here.

There was a lot of wondering about Mastro the architect of the Pistol combining with Leach the architect of the air raid. While the gun/pistol are not under center it makes sense that they were talking about how to blend things in innovative ways yet keep principles the same.

In the article leach says "“It lends itself to a couple plays, you can get the ball off quicker on some things,” Leach said. “It’s something that we’ve kind of wanted to do for quite some time."

and “I think these quarterbacks are more inclined in that direction,” Leach said. “Just one of the idiosyncrasies with Connor (Halliday), he’s more of a (shot)gun guy, and we’ll always be a gun team, anyway, so that’ll always be a bigger part of it."

So what it looks like was Leach in the early stages was just trying to play to the strengths of the personnel and let things develop, and since he has the right people in place to make the transition now is the time to do it. But from what it looks like this was being talked about behind the scenes for some time.