OT: At the heart of Gold (Larry Nassar/ USAG doc)

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Guys... can I just say holy sh!t.

I loosely followed this story and had no idea how complicit Mich St was in the abuse that these girls were subjected to. They are basically the equivalent of Penn St except for girls gymnastics, in my opinion. As early as 1997 an accusation was made and then ignored. Later accusations were covered up, and then later staff at MSU lied to authorities about their knowledge.

I mean, after the months and months and months of coverage on Sandusky and PSU, I feel like this was just a blip in the national media comparatively. "This dude did this thing and now hes in trouble. Next up, Lebron James to Los Angeles?" Maybe it got lost in the cacophony of #metoo and whatnot, but I'm just feeling like MSU came out of this squeaky clean and got to throw a couple of bad actors and USAG under the bus.

Was I just living under a rock?

 

[Coug1990]

Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State. Not a good look on the Big 10. Throw in Baylor of the Big 12 and conference's with "Big" in the name...

 

[Coug95man2]

Hate to say it but yea, you've been living under a rock man.

That story is an icky, icky one. The amount of time it was happening is staggering.

 

[dgibbons]

Guys... can I just say holy sh!t.

I loosely followed this story and had no idea how complicit Mich St was in the abuse that these girls were subjected to. They are basically the equivalent of Penn St except for girls gymnastics, in my opinion. As early as 1997 an accusation was made and then ignored. Later accusation were covered up, and later staff at MSU lied to authorities about their knowledge.

I mean, after the months and months and months of coverage on Sandusky and PSU, I feel like this was just a blip in the national media comparatively. "This dude did this thing and now hes in trouble. Next up, Lebron James to Los Angeles?" Maybe it got lost in the cacophony of #metoo and whatnot, but I'm just feeling like MSU came out of this squeaky clean and got to throw a couple of bad actors and USAG under the bus.

Was I just living under a rock?

I'm not sure how voluntary Dantonio's retirement, resignation, or whatever was. He had some bad dudes on campus.

My daughter is in gymnastics, so I've heard a lot of about this. USAG has gone through a bunch of presidents, interim presidents, etc. I think the whole board resigned a year or two ago too. Basically no one wanted the job, and ones that said OK quit almost immediately. I think it's stabilized now.

 

[FnuLnu]

Michigan State, Ohio State, Penn State. Not a good look on the Big 10. Throw in Baylor of the Big 12 and conference's with "Big" in the name...

Throw in Gonzaga and giving retired pedophile priests (do priests ever retire from pedophilia?) court side seats and retirement homes (when they aren' t the actual president of the university).

And UW - giving convicted pedophiles politicians who played for UW football a funeral at the school, allowing Venoy Overton to pimp underage girls a degree and a weekend off from the Pac12 tourney, giving the pedophile state senator a no show job and a platform that he could run for Mayor as Seattle from, letting Gary Little infamous pedophile judge teach there.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

As an aside on this whole thing... how is it that over 30 year of giving vaginal shoulder adjustments not a single parent stood up and said "what the literal fck are you doing?" I mean, the "well, he's a doctor" thing... could their parents' ambition make them that blind? It appears so.

 

[dgibbons]

As an aside on this whole thing... how is it that over 30 year of giving vaginal shoulder adjustments not a single parent stood up and said "what the literal fck are you doing?" I mean, the "well, he's a doctor" thing... could their parents' ambition make them that blind? It appears so.

The pedophiles figure out how to get away with it. It's part of the "grooming." They kinda go step by step to see how much they can get away with, pat on the back, progresses to pat on the thigh, then to however far it goes. Often mom (and dad if there is a dad around) are poor, have their own problems like addiction, and sometimes don't really give a f*ck about their kids. On top of that, doctors and priests are supposed to be people you can trust. So, if loser, strung out parent complains about a supposedly trustworthy person doing something they shouldn't do, you already have a built in bias against the loser, strung out parent. The pedophiles are also pretty good at intimidating kids into keeping silent. Keep in mind that five girls make the Olympic team. You probably don't want a "helicopter parent" or "complainer" label attached to you.

The Karolyis seem to have gotten through this fairly unscathed, or with strict confidentiality in their settlements.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The pedophiles figure out how to get away with it. It's part of the "grooming." They kinda go step by step to see how much they can get away with, pat on the back, progresses to pat on the thigh, then to however far it goes. Often mom (and dad if there is a dad around) are poor, have their own problems like addiction, and sometimes don't really give a f*ck about their kids. On top of that, doctors and priests are supposed to be people you can trust. So, if loser, strung out parent complains about a supposedly trustworthy person doing something they shouldn't do, you already have a built in bias against the loser, strung out parent. The pedophiles are also pretty good at intimidating kids into keeping silent. Keep in mind that five girls make the Olympic team. You probably don't want a "helicopter parent" or "complainer" label attached to you.

The Karolyis seem to have gotten through this fairly unscathed, or with strict confidentiality in their settlements.

The ranch closed, but yeah pretty much unscathed.

 

[moondawgie]

allowing Venoy Overton to pimp underage girls

She was 18.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

It is not just PSU, OSU, MSU, UW, gymnastics, youth sports, boy scouts or the church. Way too many organizations had a first impulse to cover up rather than burn the perps. Had any of these groups flipped the narrative and gone after the bad folks with pitchforks, they would have been in a much better position afterward with a lot of positive press. Each one had specific bad actors for which the evidence was overwhelming; this wasn't a case of shades of gray and erring on the side of avoiding unjust accusations. But that kind of decisiveness in leadership is not human nature. Every one of these groups does far more good than bad; that is not the issue; the issue is the tendency to try to cover up the blemishes. Make-up doesn't get rid of the pimple. If you look close enough, it doesn't even hide the pimple. Far better to use cleanser instead of make-up and expose everything to sunlight. In virtually every case that ends better for the organization. We all play a role in making sure that leaders in all walks of life hear that.

 

[79COUG]

She was 18.

Oh well shoot...that changes everything!
Thanks for the clarification, President Clinton.

 

[Coug1990]

The pedophiles figure out how to get away with it. It's part of the "grooming." They kinda go step by step to see how much they can get away with, pat on the back, progresses to pat on the thigh, then to however far it goes. Often mom (and dad if there is a dad around) are poor, have their own problems like addiction, and sometimes don't really give a f*ck about their kids. On top of that, doctors and priests are supposed to be people you can trust. So, if loser, strung out parent complains about a supposedly trustworthy person doing something they shouldn't do, you already have a built in bias against the loser, strung out parent. The pedophiles are also pretty good at intimidating kids into keeping silent. Keep in mind that five girls make the Olympic team. You probably don't want a "helicopter parent" or "complainer" label attached to you.

The Karolyis seem to have gotten through this fairly unscathed, or with strict confidentiality in their settlements.

What did the Karolyis do to belong on your discussion of pedophiles? I do not remember them ever being caught up in a sex scandal. Bela was criticized for his harsh training methods/mental abuse. But, he also had a lot of gymnasts that were defenders.

 

[dgibbons]

What did the Karolyis do to belong on your discussion of pedophiles? I do not remember them ever being caught up in a sex scandal. Bela was criticized for his harsh training methods/mental abuse. But, he also had a lot of gymnasts that were defenders.

Karolyi Ranch was the USA Gymnastics training center where lots of girls were abused.

 

[Coug1990]

Karolyi Ranch was the USA Gymnastics training center where lots of girls were abused.

Nassar was hired by USA gymnastics, not the Karolyi's. It did happen at their ranch, as well as other training centers. They did not get by unscathed, as USA gymnastics cut their ties to the Karoly's. It was a failure all the way around for sure.

Should they have known? Hard to know. It is known that the Karolyi's fostered a culture where you shut up and do not complain about anything.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Indeed. The Eastern European "perform at any cost" mentality had no leeway for reporting abuse, sexual or otherwise. Imagine being in boot camp from a very young age until your teens, when you were performing. It ground through people and did get medal results, but it was not geared for preparing a kid for their later life. Or even life in general.

 

[Coug1990]

Indeed. The Eastern European "perform at any cost" mentality had no leeway for reporting abuse, sexual or otherwise. Imagine being in boot camp from a very young age until your teens, when you were performing. It ground through people and did get medal results, but it was not geared for preparing a kid for their later life. Or even life in general.

Thanks for putting what I was trying to say better than I had.