Pac-12, Mountain West ‘too far apart’ as negotiations over 2025 scheduling partnership break down

[M-I-Coug]

Pac-12, Mountain West ‘too far apart’ as negotiations over 2025 scheduling partnership break down​

Jon Wilner
Sep. 1, 2024 at 9:25 pm
The Sunday deadline for the Pac-12 and Mountain West to extend their football scheduling partnership came and went without a deal.

Don’t expect them to revisit talks at a later date, either.

An agreement for the 2025 season “isn’t happening at all,” according to a source familiar with the discussions. The sides are simply “too far apart.”

Instead, Washington State and Oregon State are exploring other options to complete their 2025 schedules.

However, the source cautioned that the lack of a deal with the Mountain West did not indicate a partnership with the ACC or Big 12 — or any other league, for that matter — was imminent.

Nor does the breakdown in talks rule out the possibility of a longer-term merger, in some form, between the Pac-12 and the Mountain West.

“Don’t rule out something for 2026 and beyond,” the source added.

Washington State and Oregon State are operating as a two-team conference for the 2024-25 seasons, based on the NCAA’s two-year grace period for conferences depleted by realignment. By the summer of 2026, the Cougars and Beavers must join another conference or rebuild the Pac-12 to at least eight schools.

The scheduling partnership with the Mountain West provides both WSU and OSU with six games (three home, three away) for the 2024 season.

In exchange for the competition, the Pac-12 schools will pay the Mountain West approximately $15 million, which includes an administrative fee, participation fee and scheduling fee (for each game in Pullman and Corvallis).

The contract does not include a fee structure for the 2025 season. The payments would have been negotiated all over again, the source said.

But the financial piece wasn’t the only hurdle. Extending the agreement into 2025 didn’t fit smoothly within the Pac-12’s long-haul strategic plan, which leans heavily into remaining as flexible as possible — in case of additional realignment — and preserving the cash to act on any opportunities.

As part of their settlement with the 10 departed schools, Washington State and Oregon State are withholding a total of $65 million in campus distributions. That cash could be used to pay all, or a portion of the poaching penalty.

Additionally, the Cougars and Beavers have more than $150 million in assets at their disposal (over the course of several years) from the Pac-12’s postseason football and basketball contracts.

“There will be some of those funds set aside that, as different scenarios emerge, we do have some resources available to us for our strategic priorities moving forward and whatever we might need to do to support our conference affiliation strategy,” Pac-12 commissioner Teresa Gould said recently on ‘Canzano and Wilner: The Podcast.’

For next season, the Cougars and Beavers are exploring a plethora of options and need a total of 12 games (combined) to fill out their schedules.

At this point, WSU has six opponents lined up for next season: North Texas, San Diego State, Idaho, Washington, Virginia and Oregon State.

The Beavers also have six under contract: Cal, Fresno State, Houston, Texas Tech and Oregon, plus Washington State.

Jon Wilner: jwilner@bayareanewsgroup.com

 

[WASH ST A&M FAN]

The join The Mountain West Club needs to read this.

Spells it out pretty clearly. In order to keep the Pac12 $$$ long term, they need to display the behavior of exploring all opportunities. Or the money will disappear. Not sure how that continues to be lost on some.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The join The Mountain West Club needs to read this.

Spells it out pretty clearly. In order to keep the Pac12 $$$ long term, they need to display the behavior of exploring all opportunities. Or the money will disappear. Not sure how that continues to be lost on some.

Your post makes zero sense. "Or the money will disappear"? Gawd we've been through this a dozen times. I'm not wasting my time explaining it yet again.

We have no opportunities. We are f-ing stupid.

 

[Cougini5591]

I'm a little more optimistic.

There's no way Washington and Oregon markets get ignored.

I don't blame them, but I think the Mountain West is trying to protect their dead weight.

Here it comes...

Wazzu
OSU
Boise
Fresno
San Diego
UNLV
Utah State
CSU

Stanford and Cal will be a coin flip to want back in.

 

[BiggsCoug]

I'm a little more optimistic.

There's no way Washington and Oregon markets get ignored.

I don't blame them, but I think the Mountain West is trying to protect their dead weight.

Here it comes...

Wazzu
OSU
Boise
Fresno
San Diego
UNLV
Utah State
CSU

Stanford and Cal will be a coin flip to want back in.

Cal & Stanford will go indy before they join the league you have proposed.

 

[UberCougars]

I'm a little more optimistic.

There's no way Washington and Oregon markets get ignored.

I don't blame them, but I think the Mountain West is trying to protect their dead weight.

Here it comes...

Wazzu
OSU
Boise
Fresno
San Diego
UNLV
Utah State
CSU

Stanford and Cal will be a coin flip to want back in.

Name one network willing to pay for this.

 

[CougPatrol]

I'm a little more optimistic.

There's no way Washington and Oregon markets get ignored.

I don't blame them, but I think the Mountain West is trying to protect their dead weight.

Here it comes...

Wazzu
OSU
Boise
Fresno
San Diego
UNLV
Utah State
CSU

Stanford and Cal will be a coin flip to want back in.

Wouldn’t be surprised to see a couple of wildcard programs get invites if we go this route. North Dakota St. South Dakota State. Wyoming deserves a look as well.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Name one network willing to pay for this.

Uber, CW put their toe in the water this year to see how much of the sports programming will "stick" with their other shows. If they like the results, they will go further into sports programming. A rebuilt PAC would be a gift for them at this point. There is no way they will pay what the other P4 are getting, but there is a very good chance it would be worth a lot more than we are getting at present. This season's ratings, as well as "sticky" impact on attracting eyeballs to their other programming, will tell the tail.

 

[Cougini5591]

Cal & Stanford will go indy before they join the league you have proposed.

Probably. But the measurement on the money and attention aren't empty

 

[Cougini5591]

Name one network willing to pay for this.

Uhh...

Pac-12 Network?

 

[mikalalas]

I'm a little more optimistic.

There's no way Washington and Oregon markets get ignored.

I don't blame them, but I think the Mountain West is trying to protect their dead weight.

Here it comes...

Wazzu
OSU
Boise
Fresno
San Diego
UNLV
Utah State
CSU

Stanford and Cal will be a coin flip to want back in.

The PAC 2 will try to get BSU. SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane. If any of those don't join PAC 8, then UTSA, North Texas, NDSU, CSU, Utah St, as pool of possible subs, replacements, this is according to Scott Barnes, according to what Canzano, Wilner, Jim Williams, MHver3, Greg Swaime, Locked On Network, Twitter, unnamed sources, insiders, etc, all combined together have reported.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Probably. But the measurement on the money and attention aren't empty

They may be better off creating their own league, signing a modest tv deal, having a streaming option for every school where they keep what they kill on subs…. manufacture interest with new rivalries….. call it heroes vs heels like Vince McMahon would do…. invest in your league and make everyone good…. have your own rules around NIL…. go forward. Fck everyone else.

 

[95coug]

This could be a problem for us in 2025…it’s going to be tough to get teams to come to Pullman P4/5 teams have never wanted to anyway, and with our conference status up in the air making home-and-home deals is potentially difficult. Might be looking at being road warriors.

 

[BiggsCoug]

This could be a problem for us in 2025…it’s going to be tough to get teams to come to Pullman P4/5 teams have never wanted to anyway, and with our conference status up in the air making home-and-home deals is potentially difficult. Might be looking at being road warriors.

The non con schedules are made years in advance. If conference are adding a league game on top of their non con skeds…. WSU and OSU could struggle to find games. Being dealt in to the Mtn West was a stroke of luck for 2024. Looks like now the Mtn West is willing to pull the rug out.

ADs better get on the phone and literally call everyone. If it means signing some deals you wouldn’t normally sign… well…. shit.

Also, if the Mtn West is so willing to let you go without any games in 2025…. I wouldnt give 2 damn shits about raiding their league for teams when their deals expire. Fck us? Oh no. Fck you.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

This could be a problem for us in 2025…it’s going to be tough to get teams to come to Pullman P4/5 teams have never wanted to anyway, and with our conference status up in the air making home-and-home deals is potentially difficult. Might be looking at being road warriors.

I read an article that suggested that Oregon State already has enough games lined up for next year that including the MWC was going to take an effort on their part. The same article hinted that there are talks for Cal & Stanford to play both WSU & OSU. We already have six games shown on next years schedule according to fbschedules.com. If we get those two, we only have to get four more games. Furthering on, the article is suggesting that we might land a couple Big 12 teams too.

8/30: Idaho
9/6: SDSU
9/13: @ North Texas
9/27: @ Virginia
TBD: UW
TBD: OSU

We have a lot of people in panic mode but our 2024 deal with the MWC was a sh!t deal that we took just to get this season in place and there was no reason to repeat it if we feel like we can get something better.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I read an article that suggested that Oregon State already has enough games lined up for next year that including the MWC was going to take an effort on their part. The same article hinted that there are talks for Cal & Stanford to play both WSU & OSU. We already have six games shown on next years schedule according to fbschedules.com. If we get those two, we only have to get four more games. Furthering on, the article is suggesting that we might land a couple Big 12 teams too.

8/30: Idaho
9/6: SDSU
9/13: @ North Texas
9/27: @ Virginia
TBD: UW
TBD: OSU

We have a lot of people in panic mode but our 2024 deal with the MWC was a sh!t deal that we took just to get this season in place and there was no reason to repeat it if we feel like we can get something better.

Hey Mik I mean Flat - how about you link this article for us?

That said, I love this fbsschedules.com site. I see that Cal already has Oregon State in 2025, and one open slot. Stanford has 2 open slots. Of course, it goes without saying that they are the 2 worst attended and watched of the traitorous 10.

2025 California Football Schedule | FBSchedules.com

View the 2025 California Football Schedule at FBSchedules.com. The Cal Golden Bears football schedule includes opponents, date, time, and TV.

fbschedules.com

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Don't forget that WSU Baseball and Women's Swim team are affiliate members of the MWC as of last April. As some of you are suggesting you can get something better then go for it. I don't think the MWC is forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do. As affiliate members you can compete for conference championships as well as national championships. A lot better deal than you are getting with the WCC.

 

[roses04]

Cal has one open date in 2025 and they already have the Beavers on the Schedule, Stanford has 2 open dates in 2025. I am sure both teams would love to find a West Coast opponent for obvious reasons. The pac 12 is scheduled to get about 105 million this year and 105 Million in 2025, in order to get the money in 2025 the pac 12 (2) still has to exist. Due to all the realignment, many teams have an open date, not easy to match the dates, but I would like to think the WSU staff is working on it. The MWC has been very protective of their conference, and for the amount of money we are spending to play in their league this year, 15 million, that money could be used next year to lure other teams to Pullman, and Corvallis. Not sure the ACC will fall apart, at this point after 2 losses in which they were favored, FSU may not find a home if they find a way out. There is a lot of uncertainty, and it's not a great position for WSU to be in, to say the least, and having 15,000, maybe, show up for your opener wasn't great, and I doubt the TV ratings were much better. I'd like to think the Texas Tech game will draw fans and viewers; both are critical this year to the future of the program. Not playing with the MWC next year can be overcome by plugging in 3-4 power 4 teams. Virgina, UW, and OSU are on the schedule, plug in Cal or Stanford, a couple of big 12 teams and you have a decent schedule. The AD had mentioned they had talks with the ACC and Big 12, most thought it was about joining their league, it probably has more to do with scheduling at this point.

 

[ttowncoug]

If we don't renew this deal, does that mean if we "steal" any of their teams, do the buy-out terms still apply?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

If we don't renew this deal, does that mean if we "steal" any of their teams, do the buy-out terms still apply?

The 1st year scheduling agreement won't expire until August 1, 2025. Therefore any scheduling agreement "poaching / stealing" of teams fees still apply to that date.

 

[COUGinNCW]

Don't forget that WSU Baseball and Women's Swim team are affiliate members of the MWC as of last April. As some of you are suggesting you can get something better then go for it. I don't think the MWC is forcing anyone to do something they don't want to do. As affiliate members you can compete for conference championships as well as national championships. A lot better deal than you are getting with the WCC.

Not true. WSU and OSU are eligible to win conference titles in the WCC.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Not true. WSU and OSU are eligible to win conference titles in the WCC.

I stand corrected. Thanks.

 

[COUGinNCW]

I stand corrected. Thanks.

I’m not sure why WSU didn’t play in the WCC for baseball but I’m sure Mtn West will be fine and about the same amount of travel.

 

[mikalalas]

The 1st year scheduling agreement won't expire until August 1, 2025. Therefore any scheduling agreement "poaching / stealing" of teams fees still apply to that date.

That's sure cutting things close. PAC 2, WSU, OSU have to give sufficient notice to avoid the 35 mil per team fee, and then they can't even try to poach until Aug 1st, 2025 or face the increased scheduling contract poaching, fees, that leaves just barely enough time to then announce, give notice, avoid the 35 mil fee, and just barely enough time to make the summer of 2026 CFP deadline to have the PAC 8 in place. So some very tight timing, to make it all work, no room for timing error, timing mistake, negotiating mistake.

Gloria, MWC, are try to screw, fck BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, over, and WSU, OSU has little, almost no, negotiating wiggle room with BSU, SDSU, Fresno St, UNLV, to work something that fair, good, right, etc, for all, because if they say no, then unless 1 of the possible replacements say yes, WSU, OSU, is FCKED. So no room for any mistake error, as even 1 slight error, mistake, could FCK, WSU, OSU, PAC 2. And recent WSU, OSU, PAC 2 leadership doesn't have a good track record of not making critical, key mistakes, errors, etc.

I guess we're in for a extremely bumpy, hard ride, and gotta hope that Leadership succeeds in getting BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, or about 1,2,3,4 of the good replacements, etc, and don't FCK everything, including the timing up, etc.

I'm still in favor of doing it this way, of poaching, etc, but I would also support a top 9 MWC, leave bottom 3 behind, reverse merge into PAC, that would be easier timing, no fee wise, no cost, because the top 9 could vote to dissolve the MWC, leave Hawai, New Mexico, Nevada or SJSU or somebody else behind as the consistent bottom dwellers, etc, and then flip the bird at Gloria, and join the PAC.

Even a top 9 MWC, reverse merge into a PAC 11, then add either Memphis, or Tulane, or UTSA, etc, to a PAC 12, would still be a very good conference, without the dead weight of the bottom of the MWC, and could then either merge, join ACC or Big 12, form a MEGA SUPER CONFERENCE, or add ACC left overs, or do scheduling, media deal alliances, with ACC, Big 12, AAC, etc.

I just hope that PAC leadership gets something positive done as long as not reverse merge whole entire MWC into PAC, or as long as not get caught holding the bag for nothing again, a 2nd time.

If those 2 things happen, then the leadership including the board of trustees deserve to have their heads roll, to be fired, replaced, etc, as they should be able to get something better then either reverse merge whole entire MWC, or get caught holding the bag for a 2nd time again, for almost nothing, almost lose everything, etc.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

That's sure cutting things close. PAC 2, WSU, OSU have to give sufficient notice to avoid the 35 mil per team fee, and then they can't even try to poach until Aug 1st, 2025 or face the increased scheduling contract poaching, fees, that leaves just barely enough time to then announce, give notice, avoid the 35 mil fee, and just barely enough time to make the summer of 2026 CFP deadline to have the PAC 8 in place. So some very tight timing, to make it all work, no room for timing error, timing mistake, negotiating mistake.

Gloria, MWC, are try to screw, fck BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, over, and WSU, OSU has little, almost no, negotiating wiggle room with BSU, SDSU, Fresno St, UNLV, to work something that fair, good, right, etc, for all, because if they say no, then unless 1 of the possible replacements say yes, WSU, OSU, is FCKED. So no room for any mistake error, as even 1 slight error, mistake, could FCK, WSU, OSU, PAC 2. And recent WSU, OSU, PAC 2 leadership doesn't have a good track record of not making critical, key mistakes, errors, etc.

I guess we're in for a extremely bumpy, hard ride, and gotta hope that Leadership succeeds in getting BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, or about 1,2,3,4 of the good replacements, etc, and don't FCK everything, including the timing up, etc.

I'm still in favor of doing it this way, of poaching, etc, but I would also support a top 9 MWC, leave bottom 3 behind, reverse merge into PAC, that would be easier timing, no fee wise, no cost, because the top 9 could vote to dissolve the MWC, leave Hawai, New Mexico, Nevada or SJSU or somebody else behind as the consistent bottom dwellers, etc, and then flip the bird at Gloria, and join the PAC.

Even a top 9 MWC, reverse merge into a PAC 11, then add either Memphis, or Tulane, or UTSA, etc, to a PAC 12, would still be a very good conference, without the dead weight of the bottom of the MWC, and could then either merge, join ACC or Big 12, form a MEGA SUPER CONFERENCE, or add ACC left overs, or do scheduling, media deal alliances, with ACC, Big 12, AAC, etc.

I just hope that PAC leadership gets something positive done as long as not reverse merge whole entire MWC into PAC, or as long as not get caught holding the bag for nothing again, a 2nd time.

If those 2 things happen, then the leadership including the board of trustees deserve to have their heads roll, to be fired, replaced, etc, as they should be able to get something better then either reverse merge whole entire MWC, or get caught holding the bag for a 2nd time again, for almost nothing, almost lose everything, etc.

If I'm a MWC school then I would sit back and wait to see what our next media rights contract looks like. Hopefully, we have something ironed out by next summer. If it looks good enough then why risk jumping to another conference with no media contract and basically a conference that is mostly unstable. It's unstable because everyone knows OSU and WSU will constantly be looking to get back to where they once were. No one would blame you if you jump back to a P4 conference but, that is the point that makes the P12 unstable. We would end up right where we are now. It doesn't make sense especially if our media rights money is acceptable.

 

[mikalalas]

If I'm a MWC school then I would sit back and wait to see what our next media rights contract looks like. Hopefully, we have something ironed out by next summer. If it looks good enough then why risk jumping to another conference with no media contract and basically a conference that is mostly unstable. It's unstable because everyone knows OSU and WSU will constantly be looking to get back to where they once were. No one would blame you if you jump back to a P4 conference but, that is the point that makes the P12 unstable. We would end up right where we are now. It doesn't make sense especially if our media rights money is acceptable.

Because MWC is 5 mil per team per year now. And the projected new media deal numbers has been reported by credible sources at 7,8, 7.5 mil to 10,11 mil per year.

THE MWC IS NOT GOING TO GET BETTER THEN THAT, 12.5 MIL PER TEAM PER YEAR AT EXTREME BEST FOR MWC NEW MEDIA DEAL

IF BSU, SDSU, FRESNO, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane join PAC 8, they will get 16 mil to 22 mil per team per year. THE MWC WILL NOT GET ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT.

Also those teams would get about 4 to 6 to 8 to 10 mil per year from CFP, THATS BETTER THEN WHAT THE MWC GETS AT 1.8 MIL PER YEAR FROM MWC, WHICH NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THAT SPECIFIC PAC 8 WOULD GET.

Also a 12-0, 11-1 AAC, MAAC champ could get to CFP over a 12-0, 11-1, MWC champ.

IN THE PAC THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN AS LONG AS THAT SPECIFIC PAC 8 CHAMP WENT AT LEAST 9-3, 10-2. THATS SOMETHING MWC DOES NOT HAVE.

ALSO THAT SPECIFIC PAC 8 WOULD NOT HAVE TO GOTO IDAHO POTATOE HEAD BOWL, AND LA BOWL, AND WOULD GET BETTER BOWLS LIKE THE ALAMO BOWL, HOLIDAY BOWL, VEGAS BOWL, WHICH BETTER, MORE MONEY THEN IDAHO BOWL, LA BOWL.

IF BSU, FRESNO, SDSU, UNLV DO NOT JOIN PAC 8, THEY GET WAY LESS MONEY, LESS CFP ACCESS, WORSE BOWLS, AND WOULD BE FCKING, SCREWING THEMSELVES OVER.

THATS WHY BSU, FRESNO, SDSU, UNLV, OR TOP 9 MWC, SHOULD JOIN PAC.

AS long as the MWC are SMART ENOUGH TO ALL THOSE TARGETS TO JOIN PAC 8, THEN ITS NOT RISKY OF THEM TO DO THAT, JOIN PAC 8.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Just to throw another article out there. Here is one from the Deseret News via MSN with a perspective towards Utah State.

MSN

 

[95coug]

Because MWC is 5 mil per team per year now. And the projected new media deal numbers has been reported by credible sources at 7,8, 7.5 mil to 10,11 mil per year.

THE MWC IS NOT GOING TO GET BETTER THEN THAT, 12.5 MIL PER TEAM PER YEAR AT EXTREME BEST FOR MWC NEW MEDIA DEAL

IF BSU, SDSU, FRESNO, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane join PAC 8, they will get 16 mil to 22 mil per team per year. THE MWC WILL NOT GET ANYTHING CLOSE TO THAT.

Also those teams would get about 4 to 6 to 8 to 10 mil per year from CFP, THATS BETTER THEN WHAT THE MWC GETS AT 1.8 MIL PER YEAR FROM MWC, WHICH NOWHERE NEAR WHAT THAT SPECIFIC PAC 8 WOULD GET.

Also a 12-0, 11-1 AAC, MAAC champ could get to CFP over a 12-0, 11-1, MWC champ.

IN THE PAC THAT WOULD NOT HAPPEN AS LONG AS THAT SPECIFIC PAC 8 CHAMP WENT AT LEAST 9-3, 10-2. THATS SOMETHING MWC DOES NOT HAVE.

ALSO THAT SPECIFIC PAC 8 WOULD NOT HAVE TO GOTO IDAHO POTATOE HEAD BOWL, AND LA BOWL, AND WOULD GET BETTER BOWLS LIKE THE ALAMO BOWL, HOLIDAY BOWL, VEGAS BOWL, WHICH BETTER, MORE MONEY THEN IDAHO BOWL, LA BOWL.

IF BSU, FRESNO, SDSU, UNLV DO NOT JOIN PAC 8, THEY GET WAY LESS MONEY, LESS CFP ACCESS, WORSE BOWLS, AND WOULD BE FCKING, SCREWING THEMSELVES OVER.

THATS WHY BSU, FRESNO, SDSU, UNLV, OR TOP 9 MWC, SHOULD JOIN PAC.

AS long as the MWC are SMART ENOUGH TO ALL THOSE TARGETS TO JOIN PAC 8, THEN ITS NOT RISKY OF THEM TO DO THAT, JOIN PAC 8.

Do these credible sources exist outside of your head? Because I haven't seen anyone report anything like "7,8, 7.5 mil to 10,11 mil per year" or "4 to 6 to 8 to 10 mil" from CFP. Honestly, ranges like that just scream "not credible."

Also haven't seen anyone (except you) say that a rebuilt Pac-X would get 16-22M. Seems unlikely, since we were only going to get 23 when we still had 7 of the 10 traitors. The numbers I've seen estimated a high end of 16, with some variability based on who was included.

Also haven't seen anyone (except you) mention adding Memphis and Tulane to the Pac. I really don't understand what your fixation with them is. You don't need to explain though, I don't care enough to read another nonsensical rant. By the way, just in case you haven't noticed, your caps lock key has been stuck for about a decade.

Right now, I don't see a ton of motivation for most of the MWC. They have a path to the playoff without WSU and OSU. The networks have shown that they don't see us having a ton of value, so it's not clear that we bring much to the table financially (except the short-term pile of cash we're sitting on). Their biggest incentive might be that maybe if us and OSU join, we back a plan for equal revenue sharing and BSU loses their bigger piece of the pie. But, I suspect we'd go the other way and say we should get a bigger piece too. 11 MWC members have had to put up with Boise State looking down on the rest of the conference and demanding more money for years, why do they want two more schools who think they're better than everyone else?

Reality sucks for WSU, because the fact is that we need a conference - any conference - more than any of them need us.

 

[Coug90]

Do these credible sources exist outside of your head? Because I haven't seen anyone report anything like "7,8, 7.5 mil to 10,11 mil per year" or "4 to 6 to 8 to 10 mil" from CFP. Honestly, ranges like that just scream "not credible."

Also haven't seen anyone (except you) say that a rebuilt Pac-X would get 16-22M. Seems unlikely, since we were only going to get 23 when we still had 7 of the 10 traitors. The numbers I've seen estimated a high end of 16, with some variability based on who was included.

Also haven't seen anyone (except you) mention adding Memphis and Tulane to the Pac. I really don't understand what your fixation with them is. You don't need to explain though, I don't care enough to read another nonsensical rant. By the way, just in case you haven't noticed, your caps lock key has been stuck for about a decade.

Right now, I don't see a ton of motivation for most of the MWC. They have a path to the playoff without WSU and OSU. The networks have shown that they don't see us having a ton of value, so it's not clear that we bring much to the table financially (except the short-term pile of cash we're sitting on). Their biggest incentive might be that maybe if us and OSU join, we back a plan for equal revenue sharing and BSU loses their bigger piece of the pie. But, I suspect we'd go the other way and say we should get a bigger piece too. 11 MWC members have had to put up with Boise State looking down on the rest of the conference and demanding more money for years, why do they want two more schools who think they're better than everyone else?

Reality sucks for WSU, because the fact is that we need a conference - any conference - more than any of them need us.

I’m not sure “need” is the optimal word. As for the conferences, does it make sense to add a market that’s better than half the schools produce currently in your conference? That’s the business question for the B12 because that’s what WSU would bring, at least for football. So yeah, WSU ups the value of that conference with inclusion, the numbers bear that out. Why our administration wasn’t able to sit down over a whiskey with their commish and sell that relatively easily to him is a F’n mystery to me and the massive failure in all of this.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I’m not sure “need” is the optimal word. As for the conferences, does it make sense to add a market that’s better than half the schools produce currently in your conference? That’s the business question for the B12 because that’s what WSU would bring, at least for football. So yeah, WSU ups the value of that conference with inclusion, the numbers bear that out. Why our administration wasn’t able to sit down over a whiskey with their commish and sell that relatively easily to him is a F’n mystery to me and the massive failure in all of this.

That would be difficult since the MWC Commissioner is a woman. Aside from that, sentiment shared.

 

[mikalalas]

Do these credible sources exist outside of your head? Because I haven't seen anyone report anything like "7,8, 7.5 mil to 10,11 mil per year" or "4 to 6 to 8 to 10 mil" from CFP. Honestly, ranges like that just scream "not credible."

Also haven't seen anyone (except you) say that a rebuilt Pac-X would get 16-22M. Seems unlikely, since we were only going to get 23 when we still had 7 of the 10 traitors. The numbers I've seen estimated a high end of 16, with some variability based on who was included.

Also haven't seen anyone (except you) mention adding Memphis and Tulane to the Pac. I really don't understand what your fixation with them is. You don't need to explain though, I don't care enough to read another nonsensical rant. By the way, just in case you haven't noticed, your caps lock key has been stuck for about a decade.

Right now, I don't see a ton of motivation for most of the MWC. They have a path to the playoff without WSU and OSU. The networks have shown that they don't see us having a ton of value, so it's not clear that we bring much to the table financially (except the short-term pile of cash we're sitting on). Their biggest incentive might be that maybe if us and OSU join, we back a plan for equal revenue sharing and BSU loses their bigger piece of the pie. But, I suspect we'd go the other way and say we should get a bigger piece too. 11 MWC members have had to put up with Boise State looking down on the rest of the conference and demanding more money for years, why do they want two more schools who think they're better than everyone else?

Reality sucks for WSU, because the fact is that we need a conference - any conference - more than any of them need us.

I did NOT say EVERY, ANY OLE rebuilt PAC would get 16 to 22 mil percteam per year.

The ONLY way the PAC 8 gets that kind of money is to SPECIFICALLY get BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane. Could replace 1 of those with Airforce, UTSA, and still get that kind of money.

If Rebuilt PAC 8 was Utah St, CSU, Wyoming, North Texas, Stephen F Austin, Sacramento St, that kind of Rebuilt PAC 8 would NOT get 16 to 22 mil.

What the PAC 12 got offered before the 10 left? It was NOT 23 ORIGINALLY. It was 30 mil per team per year from ESPN. The PAC leadership said NO to that, AND THEN because of that screw up, blunder, PAC 12 got a last ditch 23 mil per team per year offer from Apple, not because they weren't worth 30, but because Apple could offer them only 15 if wanted because Apple knew that if PAC 12 didn't take whatever crumbs offered PAC 12 was SCREWED.

So the real what the PAC number is worth with the 10 that left is 30 mil per team per year, not 23. And it's even higher because PAC could have gotten 34,35,36,37 mil per team, per year if made a reasonable counter off to ESPN instead of demanding at least 50+ mil per team per year.

Based on that, and the credible sources that said, reported 16 to 22 mil for the kind of PAC rebuild I talked about, 16 to 22 mil is quite logical, reasonable for the specific PAC rebuild I mentioned, as 16 mil is about half of the 30 that PAC offered by ESPN, and 22 is about 3/5 of the 37 PAC 12 probably would have gotten if reasonable counter offer made to ESPN.

Also BSU, Fresno St, SDSU, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, WSU, as PAC 8 is competition wise almost as good as Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Stanford, CAL, Utah, UW, Oregon, WSU, OSU, and TV, value, etc, wise about 1/2 the value, etc, as the PAC 12, so BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, WSU, OSU getting 16 to 22 mil team per year is pretty reasonable, logical, does make sense, is what has been reported etc.

 

[Coug90]

That would be difficult since the MWC Commissioner is a woman. Aside from that, sentiment shared.

Was talking about the Big12 my man…even said it in my post. Yormark isnt an Algerian boxer that I’m aware of.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Was talking about the Big12 my man…even said it in my post. Yormark isnt an Algerian boxer that I’m aware of.

Oops! Missed that.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I did NOT say EVERY, ANY OLE rebuilt PAC would get 16 to 22 mil percteam per year.

The ONLY way the PAC 8 gets that kind of money is to SPECIFICALLY get BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane. Could replace 1 of those with Airforce, UTSA, and still get that kind of money.

If Rebuilt PAC 8 was Utah St, CSU, Wyoming, North Texas, Stephen F Austin, Sacramento St, that kind of Rebuilt PAC 8 would NOT get 16 to 22 mil.

What the PAC 12 got offered before the 10 left? It was NOT 23 ORIGINALLY. It was 30 mil per team per year from ESPN. The PAC leadership said NO to that, AND THEN because of that screw up, blunder, PAC 12 got a last ditch 23 mil per team per year offer from Apple, not because they weren't worth 30, but because Apple could offer them only 15 if wanted because Apple knew that if PAC 12 didn't take whatever crumbs offered PAC 12 was SCREWED.

So the real what the PAC number is worth with the 10 that left is 30 mil per team per year, not 23. And it's even higher because PAC could have gotten 34,35,36,37 mil per team, per year if made a reasonable counter off to ESPN instead of demanding at least 50+ mil per team per year.

Based on that, and the credible sources that said, reported 16 to 22 mil for the kind of PAC rebuild I talked about, 16 to 22 mil is quite logical, reasonable for the specific PAC rebuild I mentioned, as 16 mil is about half of the 30 that PAC offered by ESPN, and 22 is about 3/5 of the 37 PAC 12 probably would have gotten if reasonable counter offer made to ESPN.

Also BSU, Fresno St, SDSU, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, WSU, as PAC 8 is competition wise almost as good as Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Stanford, CAL, Utah, UW, Oregon, WSU, OSU, and TV, value, etc, wise about 1/2 the value, etc, as the PAC 12, so BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, WSU, OSU getting 16 to 22 mil team per year is pretty reasonable, logical, does make sense, is what has been reported etc.

Just because you keeeeep onnn repeating your $16-22M media rights number doesn't make it anything other than a figment of your imagination. And yes your fixation with Memphis and Tulane, neither of which has uttered one word about coming out West, is pure fantasy.

And why do you throw Sacramento State and Stephen F. Austin into the discussion? They are middling FCS schools.

 

[mikalalas]

Just because you keeeeep onnn repeating your $16-22M media rights number doesn't make it anything other than a figment of your imagination. And yes your fixation with Memphis and Tulane, neither of which has uttered one word about coming out West, is pure fantasy.

And why do you throw Sacramento State and Stephen F. Austin into the discussion? They are middling FCS schools.

Not saying that Sac St, Stephen Austin are possibilities. I was making the point that if PAC 8 had SHET like Stephen Austin, making up the PAC 8, that then the PAC wouldn't be worth 16 to22 mil per team per year.

Both you, and 95 regularly misread things.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Not saying that Sac St, Stephen Austin are possibilities. I was making the point that if PAC had SHET Stephen Austin, that then the PAC wouldn't be worth 16 to22 mil per team per year.

Both you, and 95 regularly misread things.

We read just fine. You just pick random names out of the air. Yes if we had a Pac-8 composed of Big Sky teams, our media package would be small. And the sun would rise in the east.

 

[95coug]

I did NOT say EVERY, ANY OLE rebuilt PAC would get 16 to 22 mil percteam per year.

The ONLY way the PAC 8 gets that kind of money is to SPECIFICALLY get BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane. Could replace 1 of those with Airforce, UTSA, and still get that kind of money.

If Rebuilt PAC 8 was Utah St, CSU, Wyoming, North Texas, Stephen F Austin, Sacramento St, that kind of Rebuilt PAC 8 would NOT get 16 to 22 mil.

What the PAC 12 got offered before the 10 left? It was NOT 23 ORIGINALLY. It was 30 mil per team per year from ESPN. The PAC leadership said NO to that, AND THEN because of that screw up, blunder, PAC 12 got a last ditch 23 mil per team per year offer from Apple, not because they weren't worth 30, but because Apple could offer them only 15 if wanted because Apple knew that if PAC 12 didn't take whatever crumbs offered PAC 12 was SCREWED.

So the real what the PAC number is worth with the 10 that left is 30 mil per team per year, not 23. And it's even higher because PAC could have gotten 34,35,36,37 mil per team, per year if made a reasonable counter off to ESPN instead of demanding at least 50+ mil per team per year.

Based on that, and the credible sources that said, reported 16 to 22 mil for the kind of PAC rebuild I talked about, 16 to 22 mil is quite logical, reasonable for the specific PAC rebuild I mentioned, as 16 mil is about half of the 30 that PAC offered by ESPN, and 22 is about 3/5 of the 37 PAC 12 probably would have gotten if reasonable counter offer made to ESPN.

Also BSU, Fresno St, SDSU, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, WSU, as PAC 8 is competition wise almost as good as Arizona, ASU, Colorado, Stanford, CAL, Utah, UW, Oregon, WSU, OSU, and TV, value, etc, wise about 1/2 the value, etc, as the PAC 12, so BSU, SDSU, Fresno, UNLV, Memphis, Tulane, WSU, OSU getting 16 to 22 mil team per year is pretty reasonable, logical, does make sense, is what has been reported etc.

Nothing you post is ever logical or reasonable. Most of it is fantasy or just outright bullshit.

You make the claim that a PAC-X with Memphis and Tulane is worth up to $22M -even though nobody is talking about those teams joining. Your insane math figures this because we were offered $30M with USC & UCLA, and $23M with UW/UO. Apparently you see Memphis and Tulane bringing roughly the same value as UW/UO….even though no conference wants either of them and they have shit media deals now. Oh, but it’s because the networks lowballed us with UW/UO….but they’re going to give us top dollar with Memphis and Tulane. Apparently even though not a single one of the teams has a deal worth even $12M, somehow you think that together they’re worth $22M. I’m not sure how you can even convince yourself of this shit.

Nobody’s misreading what you write. It’s just that none of it makes sense.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

I just thought some of you might be interested in this article. I learned a few things on what Gloria is thinking about in terms of the MWC I found interesting. Even so far as saying this about MWC schools: "Nevarez also said they have been “modeling” ways to create minimum budget levels to elevate the bottom levels of the conference with the threat of expulsion if they don’t meet them." Now that is some bold talk right there and I think it's about time. Talks about the Pac12 and other realignment options.

There is no paywall here but, you need to give them an email address to read the article. This is something new the San Diego Tribune started. But, they usually have some good articles and good information.

Does San Diego State, Mountain West fit into Pac-2’s plans?

‘There are so many different scenarios’ swirling in college athletics, SDSU athletic director says

www.sandiegouniontribune.com

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I just thought some of you might be interested in this article.

Thanks but c'mon bud - just copy and paste the article here. We won't tell.

Edit = aw screw it - I did it myself. Sue me for copyright infringement. Great article. Hope the Pac-2 reads it. As asides, SDSU AD JD Wicker was at WSU for many years (great guy) and it is well known here that I have a major crush on Gloria.

Oregon State played at San Diego State in football Saturday night as part of a one-year scheduling agreement with the Mountain West.

The question hanging in the hot, humid air at Snapdragon Stadium: When will they play again?

The short answer is 2026, for a nonconference game that was scheduled years ago. But when or if they might regularly meet as members of the same league is more complicated, especially after a Sept. 1 deadline passed without an agreement to extend the scheduling pact with the Mountain West through 2025.

“There are so many different scenarios,” SDSU athletic director John David Wicker said.

“What do I think is going to happen?” Mountain West commissioner Gloria Nevarez said. “That question is so difficult in this environment. … If I knew, I would not be working here. I would be playing the lottery.”

Oregon State and Washington State were the two schools left on the helipad when Pac-12 broke apart two summers ago and everyone scrambled onto the last choppers out of Saigon. An NCAA rule gives the Pac-2 a two-year waiver before it must have eight members to be considered a recognized conference, and the Beavers and Cougars quickly signed a $14 million deal to complete their 2024 football schedules with six games each against Mountain West opponents.

The contract set Sept. 1, 2024, as the deadline to extend it for 2025, and that came and went, multiple sources said, after OSU and WSU presented the Mountain West with an offer well under $14 million for another 12 games.

They technically could still negotiate an agreement for 2025. Nevarez didn’t sound optimistic.





“I think we have to move on,” the commissioner said Saturday before Oregon State’s 21-0 win at Snapdragon. “The Sept.1 date was picked because this is the outer edge of the time when we can be making decisions about next year’s football schedule. There’s a lot that goes into it. Our schools need certainty so they can plan their nonconference schedules.”

Oregon State and Washington State, the sources said, consulted with college football matchmaker Dave Brown to build an alternate 2025 schedule as independents that would cost less than $14 million.

It remains to be seen, though, who exactly might be on that schedule in the back half of the season, when the rest of the nation is playing conference games and nonconference dates are booked years, sometimes decades, in advance. Or if Mountain West schools are willing to bail them out on an individual basis. (Nevarez said there is no conference-wide embargo on scheduling the Beavers or Cougars.)

The larger question is what happens after 2025, when the Pac-2 must be at least a Pac-8 to remain in NCAA compliance. And if that involves adding members of other conferences given sometimes steep exit fees, plans need to crystalize by spring.

“If there are opportunities that come our way, we’re going to be ready to take advantage of them,” Nevarez said. “But it’s probably a better question for other programs.”

The Union-Tribune requested by email and in person to speak with Oregon State athletic director Scott Barnes at Saturday’s game, but he was not made available (even though he did appear in the press box before kickoff).

Several sources inside and outside the Mountain West walked through the options for Oregon State and Washington State, in order of preference:

1. Big 12: The two have lobbied hard for an invite, but there has been little appetite from the 16-team conference for more mouths to feed from Corvallis, Ore., and Pullman, Wash. One source said they were recently given “a hard no.”

2. ACC chaos: In this scenario, Florida State and Clemson succeed in their legal challenges to the seemingly ironclad grant of rights binding ACC members to their long-term media rights contract. That might spit out recent additions Stanford, Cal and SMU to join OSU and WSU in a west-centric conference with the top of the Mountain West. But there’s no guarantee the ACC will implode, or when, and the clock is ticking for the Pac-2.

3. Pac-8: OSU and WSU would add six Group of Five schools by 2026-27 to reach eight under the Pac-12 banner, leaving room for any disgruntled former Pac-12 members to return in the future. All six additions could be from the Mountain West – most likely SDSU, Boise State, UNLV, Colorado State, Air Force and Fresno State – or they could be split between the Mountain West and other conferences.

4. Reverse merger: Instead of joining the Mountain West, OSU and WSU would convince the Mountain West to dissolve and take everyone but the bottom feeders. Dissolution requires nine votes, so presumably all nine would have guarantees of joining. (Translation: San Jose State, Utah State, Nevada and Hawaii likely would be fighting for the final spot.)

5. Independent: This would follow the BYU model (and many of OSU and WSU’s other sports are already playing in the WCC this year). The problem is without a conference affiliation, access to the 12-team College Football Playoff gets substantially harder since you’d be fighting the SEC, Big Ten and other power conferences for an at-large berth with an inferior strength of schedule.

6. Mountain West: This gives them a better shot at the CFP, because the conference champ in most years will have an inside track for an automatic berth. But it also constitutes an admission of no longer being a power conference school, which neither appears ready or willing to make.

There is also the matter of the fine print of the Mountain West scheduling agreement, which includes, for lack of a better term, “poaching penalties” should OSU and WSU invite any of the current members to the Pac-12. It’s $10 million for the first school, $20.5 million for two, $31.5 million for three, $43 million for four, and so on.

The even finer print: The penalties extend for two years after the agreement ends, or Aug. 1, 2027.

It was a non-negotiable part of the deal for the Mountain West. OSU and WSU, desperate for a 2024 football schedule, swallowed and signed it.

“That was a very important piece for us,” Nevarez said. “At that point, there was so much unknown, so we just tried to protect ourselves against what we knew could potentially break us apart.”

And that’s separate from what Mountain West defectors would owe in exit fees, which will approach $20 million with more than a year’s notice and $40 million inside that. The Mountain West’s current TV deal expires after 2025-26, but the exit fees remain in perpetuity unless university presidents vote to change them.

Reports emerged earlier this summer that OSU and WSU were setting aside $65 million of the Pac-12 treasure chest they inherited to help attract new members should they fail to secure a power conference invite. That presumably could be used to pry free Mountain West schools like SDSU and Boise State.

But then they’d each have to fork over $20 million in exit fees, and for what? To join a league with schools in Corvallis (population 61,000) and Pullman (population 34,000)?

Say you could get $3 million more in TV revenue compared to staying in the Mountain West? It would take nearly seven years to pay off the $20 million exit fee.

“With anything you look at, you have to do the financial calculus of does it make sense?” said Wicker, SDSU’s athletic director. “It’s like with the Big 12. The Big 12 wanted us to come in at basically a half-share with no opportunity to make any money in the new TV deal that they just started. Why would we do that? We would have been sitting at the bottom of the league looking up, with no opportunity to do anything.

“We have a great opportunity in the Mountain West to make the College Football Playoff. We’ve already shown we can play in the national title game (in men’s basketball) and we were one win away from the (softball) College World Series. So yeah, financially it has to work.”

The cheaper option for OSU and WSU is a reverse merger with the Mountain West if they can get nine votes for dissolution.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Thanks but c'mon bud - just copy and paste the article here. We won't tell.

Edit = aw screw it - I did it myself. Sue me for copyright infringement. Great article. Hope the Pac-2 reads it. As asides, SDSU AD JD Wicker was at WSU for many years (great guy) and it is well known here that I have a major crush on Gloria.

Had to break the article into 2 parts to fit.

Could they?

“Today, no,” Nevarez said. “I talk with all of our schools regularly and I don’t think there’s a desire to dissolve the league. I think we have a strong core that really believes what we have is a recognized league (with a path) into the (football) playoff. That’s really important for our coaches and athletes. We have that chance now.”

And it doesn’t sound like Nevarez is content waiting to see if the top of her league gets poached. She has been actively working behind the scenes to change the conference’s revenue distribution system to appease the upper half that would coincide with a new media rights contact starting in 2026-27.

That is believed to include unequal distribution for NCAA basketball tournament units and CFP or bowl appearances, incentivizing programs to spend more with a greater return on investment. Nevarez also said they have been “modeling” ways to create minimum budget levels to elevate the bottom levels of the conference with the threat of expulsion if they don’t meet them.

“Just like we’ve always done, we will continue to work on what is the best place for San Diego State to be most competitive,” Wicker said. “We’ve made the investments. Our goal is for everybody in our league to be making investments to play at the top level, to be as close as possible to the Big 12 and the ACC.”

Where do the Beavers and Cougars fit into all this?

It’s an increasing unknown, as the two leagues suddenly seem further apart than they were a year ago. Alliance became adversarial.

“Oregon State and Washington State are going to find a home, whether it’s West Coast based or nationally based, I don’t know what it is,” Wicker said. “I’d love to have them in the Mountain West because they’re quality programs, they’re great brands, and they would walk in the door and have a bigger national brand than any of the people in our league probably.

“I certainly hope it works out, at some point, in some way, that benefits us all.”