Oh so you're a comedian now? What happened to your gig as a special advisor to the CDC?
Pat Chun accused of verbal assault...by a Pullman councilman.
- Thread starter CougPatrol
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So your contention is that CRT and the writings/views of people like Ibraim Kendi and Derek Bell are not used in K through 12?
Edit: and more specifically not used in school districts in the State of Washington. Let's be fair to keep it in the neighborhood.
I've stayed out of the fray for much of these non-football discussions, but I can't help but respond to your post, Willie. I lived in the Portland area for more than 60 years before relocating to the Midwest (to be closer to grandkids) but I still have family & friends in Portland, and still follow the news in PDX very closely. Here are excepts from an NBC news story written this summer. Please note, this is not a FOX news story, it's NBC which, arguably tends to skew left a bit on its coverage:
"Tensions within the Portland Police Bureau boiled over earlier this year when 115 officers resigned or retired, leaving Oregon’s largest city with roughly 800 officers. The mass exodus was the largest seen in recent memory, according to the Oregonian, which first reported the story in April. In 31 exit interviews obtained by the newspaper, police officers said they were “overworked, overwhelmed and burned out” following budget cuts and anti-police sentiment from some community members and activists who continue to gather in downtown Portland.
In the months since last summer’s chaos, city leaders cut $27 million from the police budget, vowing to instead fund community programs dedicated to curbing escalating gun violence. Last year's police budget of $229 million was about $10 million less than that of the previous year."
Maybe it's semantics, but I would equate slashing police budgets with "defunding". At the very least, cutting the funding for police has corresponded with an increase in crime in Portland. That shouldn't be up for debate.
Glad Cougar
Those aren't CRT. Why are you so scared about kids learning those values though?
It would be interesting to see the follow up...have those "community programs" been funded? If so, has the escalation in gun violence been curbed?
The numbers that PPD reports indicate that all crime is up. The news focuses on violent and gun crimes.
When people say "Get CRT out of our schools." they don't mean the literal CRT. They mean the ideas concomitant with CRT are in the schools. Those saying "CRT isn't taught to kids" know this is what people mean. But instead they belittle folk. Nobody talks to each other.
I recently listed to a couple of excellent talks on this point. For your edification (if you want to take the time):
www.acton.org
lawliberty.org
I recently listed to a couple of excellent talks on this point. For your edification (if you want to take the time):
Is a parent-driven revolution brewing in public education?
In this episode, Eric, Sam, and Dylan discuss the potential for upheavals in public education. Will fights over the curriculum and the cumulative impact of the COVID-19 pandemic (and the behavior of the teachers union during it) open up the possibility of wholesale changes in public schools...
Provoking an Educational Renaissance – Law & Liberty - James Hankins
James Hankins outlines a path forward on an education that prepares students for a life of dignified freedom and citizenship.
lawliberty.org
What is your definition of CRT? You haven't actually said. Why are you so afraid of saying?
96 just wants to scream racist.When people say "Get CRT out of our schools." they don't mean the literal CRT. They mean the ideas concomitant with CRT are in the schools. Those saying "CRT isn't taught to kids" know this is what people mean. But instead they belittle folk. Nobody talks to each other.
I recently listed to a couple of excellent talks on this point. For your edification (if you want to take the time):
Is a parent-driven revolution brewing in public education?
In this episode, Eric, Sam, and Dylan discuss the potential for upheavals in public education. Will fights over the curriculum and the cumulative impact of the COVID-19 pandemic (and the behavior of the teachers union during it) open up the possibility of wholesale changes in public schools...
Provoking an Educational Renaissance – Law & Liberty - James Hankins
James Hankins outlines a path forward on an education that prepares students for a life of dignified freedom and citizenship.
I explained this already, but you are a coward and refuse to acknowledge it. CRT is taught in graduate level programs. That is not the same as teaching children, white children in particular, that race exists and that being racist is bad.
For some reason you seem to be in favor of hiding racism from kids, and there is really only one reason to be in favor of that.
So, do you agree that it matters how narrowly or broadly the term is defined?
And of course, keep making stuff up. It's your right as an American.
CRT IS NOT teaching history, that race exist, that racism exist.
If pure, factual history taught, or if teach that race exist, racism exist, in context, and how things truly are today in context: NOBODY HAS A PROBLEM WITH THAT.
The problem is that CRT, CRT like stuff is being taught to children, even if it were only taught by 1 teacher, school district, etc.
Again CRT, or CRT like; That ALL white people, kids, TODAY, are OPPRESSORS, MASTERS, and that ALL black people TODAY, are OPPRESSED, VICTIMS, SLAVES, have no opportunity, etc, IS IN FACT BEING TAUGHT BY AT LEAST, 1, a couple, few, some teacher(s), school districts.
Just because your supposed unnamed source says it's not, doesn't mean it's not taught somewhere.
Just because it's not taught in your kids school, school district, does not mean it is not taught somewhere to kids in school.
I guarantee you that it is being taught in at least 1 school, by at least 1 teacher.
And it is being taught in Virginia.
The parents are not lying. The parents would not be this pissed, if it was not being taught.
Also the kids also are not lying about it being taught.
And there is VIDEO PROOF of parents reading CRT like stuff on official curriculum papers. And Video of marked, highlighted CRT like material, on official curriculum papers.
And there has been multi generational black descendants of slaves, both parents, and kids, who have on video claimed that CRT like stuff was taught in school, that said that on video. THEY WERE NOT LYING.
But instead of either acknowledging or proving wrong with REAL PROOF, FACTS, etc.
You instead duck, dodge, deflect, dance around, not acknowledge, ignore, don't read, listen, understand, and don't define CRT and CRT like stuff, and wrongly say things like Oh your CRT is just history being taught, or oh they are just teaching that racism exist, or oh your just denying racism, and are racist yourself.
You continue to lie, exaggerate, misrepresent, ignore, deny, wrongly call people liars, that aren't lying, call names, FLAME, TROLL.
Also YOU STARTED THIS MESS.
You could have just made your point related to cougar football situation without bringing up politics to make your point.
Just STFU TROLL
If i said a major foundation of this nation was built, was embedded and based on white supremacy, what specifically would anyone here take issue with?
That white supremacy was a key tenet? Or that white supremacists existed and were more common at the founding?
But why limit the question to the US? What about the Malay with respect to the Chinese? Is the US uniquely guilty of racism?
Just as I stated...a major foundation. Hell, I guess I'd accept "major tenet". I think it's common knowledge that white supremacists existed and were "more common at the founding".
Anybody disagree with this?
White SUPREMACY was NEVER EVER a KEY TENET, major foundation of country.
The USA CONSTITUTION and the DECLARATION of independence, bill of rights, federalist papers, founding documents, that ALL PEOPLE ARE EQUAL, AND HAVE THE RIGHT TO THE PURSUIT OF LAND LIBERTY OPPORTUNITY HAPPINESS, is, was the FOUNDATION of the USA.
Was white SUPREMACY, RACISM common back then. YES. Was it EMBEDDED in the FOUNDATION, fabric of country? MOSTLY NO, but partly yes, BUT those parts were MOSTLY fixed, eradicated.
Was it SYSTEMIC? YES AND NO.
YES because it was systemic in the Confederate South pre civil war, during civil war, during reconstruction, during KKK, Jim Crow during 1940s, 60s; 70s.
BUT during the 90s, 2000s til even now, SYSTEMIC racism, white. Supremacy IS NOT embedded, not in foundation, not in system of this country
BUT white SUPREMACY, racism STILL exist. BUT it has been MARGINALIZED to the extremely small minority, and is NOT systemic.
THATs TRUTH, FACT.
Wrongfully saying, teaching that White SUPREMACY was a key tenet, and embedded in foundation of country, is WRONG, UNTRUE, UNFACTUAL, A LIE, etc, AND SHOULD NOT BE TAUGHT IN SCHOOL.
And therein lies the problem with the discussion. We shouldn't try to be better because China is racist too. "Whatabout" is the laziest form of argument.
The police officers didn’t quit because of defunding. They quit because of mismanagement and incompetence by police and city leadership. The lack of public police support and anti-police sentiment was a big factor. And oh yeah, there was that rioting thing which exposed it all and led to extreme burnout and not feeling appreciated.
All bureaus in Portland were hit by a 5.6% budgeting decrease due to an expected shortfall of 75M ( a miscalculation as we recently learned there is a 62M surplus). The actual budget “defunding” cut to PPB was 15M which was to placate the left wing lunatic fringe including Kooks Hardesty and Eudaly. Millions of this money was rerouted to fund non-police filling in for mental health roles that police were doing but really shouldn’t have been tasked to do in the first place. And these cuts were to programs that really weren’t much of a loss: Gun Violence reduction program - a waste of money, and transit and school policing.
A 15M budget cut certainly did not lead to police leaving - they were already quitting en masse before the budget cuts ever happened.
Crime has not gone up because of a 15M cut to the PPB budget. That’s beyond laughable.
“Do some research”. Question: Why are you using the language of conspiracy theorists, antivaxxers and Q-nuts? That is interesting.
The lack of police support and anti-police sentiment went beyond the public, it existed among the Portland City Council. Yes, Hardesty and Eudaly wanted a LOT more funding taken away if not outright abolishing the police force ala Minneapolis' recent efforts. But the bottom line is that city leaders were doing everything they could to crush the morale of the police department in the wake of George Floyd's murder, including being much more critical of the police than the rioters who showed up nightly downtown. Whether you think a mere $15 million shouldn't be considered at least a partial defunding of the police, it certainly sent a signal to the force that they weren't fully valued by the city council. The result is a lot of early retirements and resignations....as well as difficulty filling the vacancies. Meanwhile, crime is up in PDX.
Glad Cougar
Apparently the Portland council sees something they like in the way Seattle is spiraling around the drain. They’re heading in the same direction.
This isn’t whataboutism. It’s about definitions. What *makes* the US fundamentally racist?
BTW, my example wasn’t about Chinese racism.
Set CRT aside for a second. I’d argue mathematics is the most important subject in school. You need it to understand basic finance among other things. Here’s something I do take issue with, and if it were on a ballot would move the needle for me R or D - this base 10 crap they are doing now to cater to the kids who aren’t getting it. My kids are capable of advanced level math but have to slow down and add up marks because Jonny can’t do long division? THIS type of shit is bad for our future and I can confirm it’s been going on for several years. I say this still maintaining I’ve seen zero evidence of CRT with 17 years of my kids collective schooling I’ve observed in two different districts across the state from each other.
Have to disagree, Mic. The aspirational language of those documents was NOT backed up by law or action, culminating in a civil war over the very idea that one "race" of people could legally own another and do with them as they saw fit.
Slavery was baked into the system and without it, the United States would have dissolved before the turn of the 19th century. After the civil war reconstruction had to be imposed on the south to protect the basic human and civil rights of those very citizens those documents claimed were equal...all the way to stationing federal troops down there to keep them from being killed by white-supremacist southerners. Once the worst president in our history pulled them out, the KKK flourished and Jim Crow took hold. And that legacy lasted another 80 years.
Your other points are generally correct as to recent times, but that wasn't my question originally. And the fact that one has to go more than half way through the 20th century to begin seeing more systemic equity is indicative of the premise of CRT. So I have to completely disagree with your last sentence. Teaching the history of slavery and all its affects resulting from, in my mind, absolutely should be taught. That doesn't mean making or implying current people should feel any guilt or feel responsible. Taihtsat, for now
City leaders were doing everything they could to crush morale? That’s just plain silly: You are implying they did it intentionally when it was truly the result of incompetence. The police leadership shares the blame along with the idiot mayor and city council.
Is crime in general really going up significantly in Portland? Violent crime certainly has but it’s been going up all over. These things were trending long before 15M was trimmed in programs that showed limited value anyways and again, if police are quitting en masse it’s easy to trim your budget since you’re already not paying people anyways.
Sorry that doesn’t fit the narrative you and bleedcrimsonandgray are pushing but that narrative just doesn’t fit reality.
Again, i didnt say the uSA was fundamentally racist. I don't think that it is. I'm speaking of it being a major building block. As I explained to Mik, if the 3/5ths compromise had not been made, and the ban on importing slaves through 1808 hadn't been instituted (rather than a wholesale abolishment of the institution) the country wouldn't have formed as we know it today. Taihtsat
History is factual - teaching facts and context AT THE TIME is fine. Opining with authority that those events are the basis for everything in today's society is irresponsible and rife with bias.
Manipulating the emotions and feelings of kids based on something that happened hundreds of years before their birth, not acceptable. Go ahead and pull the same thing on kids of German descent for their part in the Holocaust - that's absurd.
The reason CRT is primarily discussed in law school is that legal scholars are being trained to think on both sides of an issue and frame arguments both for and against. Kids in K-12 take things their teachers say as gospel truth. Big difference.
This week's Bill Maher episode is worth watching with regards to the topic. Glenn Loury is one of the panelists.
And 96 still hasn't stipulated to the question asked here. And he won't because he knows the answer doesn't fit his contention.
My kids sh*t their pants when they were young. They don't do that any longer.
They grow, mature and learn from their past. Just as this country continues to do.
If your kid didn't learn to use the toilet, that's on you, not me. And my kids don't need 'special' training on how to wipe. Metaphorically speaking.
Well, the problem with this metaphor is that the country continued to either sh!+ it's pants well into its late adulthood (or certainly had little incontinence issues). I do generally see and agree with your observation - we are maturing and progressing in a positive direction. Taihtsat
I'm really not even advocating teaching CRT in k-12. And again, I would agree that context to the time is important. But so are the consequences of those times and the effects being felt for generations.
Germany still teaches about the holocaust to this day. We do not teach the plight of black Americans in depth as victims of a society and a system that continued well into the 60s in a sizable portion of this country.
I'm just advocating for teaching in depth on slavery, the civil war, reconstruction, Jim Crow, the KKK and the civil rights movement. Do you NOT want this taught?
I always do. I know Mahers thoughts on this and he agrees with what i just posted above
I never said or implied that the city council crushed morale intentionally. But it really doesn't matter what their intent was.....their actions and statements in the wake of George Floyd angered and disillusioned a large portion of the police force. If police were already quitting and crime was already increasing, the actions of city leaders only hastened and exaggerated those trends. Personally, I'm happy to no longer live there anymore.
Glad Cougar
