Question for the 4 wins crowd

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

You've planted your flag and made your case, so how do you feel about it?

I'm wondering because I thought we (cz posters) came to a pretty wide consensus that 6 wins SHOULD be the low water mark for this program going forward, ESPECIALLY after a full 4 years to get his guys in place.

4 wins to me is unacceptable. We have a great coach in place, who has recruited increasingly better talent every year to the point that while it may not be plug and play to 8+ wins, it should be plug and play to 6 wins, especially given that we have gone the cupcake route OOC.

4 wins to me would signal systemic failure and a need to either flood the roster to JC talent or reassess the coaching hires, with the latter being the most likely course of action.

So what say you, 4 win crowd? Would the season be a failure or "eh, that's Cougar football..."?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I don't consider myself part of the 4 wins crowd but I'll give my take. If we finish 4-8 this year, it would, without a doubt, be a failure on the part of Leach. But........most teams experience a losing season every now and again and even if it's a failure, you don't make any rash decisions or changes based on one season. Two losing seasons in a row? That would start to be more of a concern. Most of us realize that a losing season every now and again isn't the end of the world as long as we win most years and win big as often as we struggle.

 

[Loyal Coug]

I don't consider myself part of the 4 wins crowd but I'll give my take. If we finish 4-8 this year, it would, without a doubt, be a failure on the part of Leach. But........most teams experience a losing season every now and again and even if it's a failure, you don't make any rash decisions or changes based on one season. Two losing seasons in a row? That would start to be more of a concern. Most of us realize that a losing season every now and again isn't the end of the world as long as we win most years and win big as often as we struggle.

Ditto here. With our non-con schedule, no way should or will we only win 4 games. or ever - as long as CML is our coach.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I don't consider myself part of the 4 wins crowd but I'll give my take. If we finish 4-8 this year, it would, without a doubt, be a failure on the part of Leach. But........most teams experience a losing season every now and again and even if it's a failure, you don't make any rash decisions or changes based on one season. Two losing seasons in a row? That would start to be more of a concern. Most of us realize that a losing season every now and again isn't the end of the world as long as we win most years and win big as often as we struggle.

Doesn't accepting sub .500 football defeat the purpose of bringing in a big name/ big $$$ coach like Leach? Isn't the whole point so that we aren't the doormat anymore? At least under his regime?

Yes, after he leaves I fully expect football at the levels not seen since 2008 to return, as I don't think the current administration is fully invested in the success of the program, but we'll see.

 

[Cougatron]

I really could really only see 4 wins if there is some serious roster holes / injuries / tough year junk.

With 4 wins being the basically floor.

Sometimes you just have a bad year or a down year occasionally. The key word is occasionally...as in fluke...as in out of the ordinary.

It happens. What is hilarious is that somehow 4 wins for some is the ceiling...bahahaha hahahaha

 

[fingerdisco]

You've planted your flag and made your case, so how do you feel about it?

I'm wondering because I thought we (cz posters) came to a pretty wide consensus that 6 wins SHOULD be the low water mark for this program going forward, ESPECIALLY after a full 4 years to get his guys in place.

4 wins to me is unacceptable. We have a great coach in place, who has recruited increasingly better talent every year to the point that while it may not be plug and play to 8+ wins, it should be plug and play to 6 wins, especially given that we have gone the cupcake route OOC.

4 wins to me would signal systemic failure and a need to either flood the roster to JC talent or reassess the coaching hires, with the latter being the most likely course of action.

So what say you, 4 win crowd? Would the season be a failure or "eh, that's Cougar football..."?

I'd give him a pass if it happens this year. Losing your most experienced QB in the way this team did is something that nobody could have anticipated or planned for, but will certainly be difficult to overcome.

 

[PeteTheChop]

What is hilarious is that somehow 4 wins for some is the ceiling...bahahaha hahahaha

If Jeff Tuel doesn’t go down ...

 

[PeteTheChop]

1. QB situation will work itself out. Always does under CML.

2. Cougs will find just enough playmakers at WR to have an edge on most opposing secondaries.

3. D-Line will be adequate if the JuCo transfer develops quickly and the injury bug does not bite.

4. The O-Line? I’ll admit this may be a work in progress all season.

Over/Under: 7.5 wins

As of mid-April? I’ll take the over.

 

[Cougatron]

If Jeff Tuel doesn’t go down ...

He wasn't down the year before...

 

[425cougfan]

Doesn't accepting sub .500 football defeat the purpose of bringing in a big name/ big $$$ coach like Leach? Isn't the whole point so that we aren't the doormat anymore? At least under his regime?

Yes, after he leaves I fully expect football at the levels not seen since 2008 to return, as I don't think the current administration is fully invested in the success of the program, but we'll see.

Other than isolated, abormal events (maybe you get an up-and-comer who has lightning strike for a couple years), I think it's necessary, not sufficient, to have a highly capable head coach (paid somewhere around the 50th to 75th percentile in the conference and probably in the top 25 coaches in the country) to win football games at WSU.

I never cease to be amazed by those who think that WSU hiring a "big name / big $$$" coach who is compensated at a median level in the conference, or having "big-time" football facilities that are like everyone else in the conference, guarantee that we'll never have a losing season and consistently be able to beat opponents in more talent-rich areas with more money and resources.

 

[dgibbons]

He wasn't down the year before...

Three out of his four seasons he missed a significant number of games with injury. The year he didn’t was a two win season.

 

[95coug]

You've planted your flag and made your case, so how do you feel about it?

I'm wondering because I thought we (cz posters) came to a pretty wide consensus that 6 wins SHOULD be the low water mark for this program going forward, ESPECIALLY after a full 4 years to get his guys in place.

4 wins to me is unacceptable. We have a great coach in place, who has recruited increasingly better talent every year to the point that while it may not be plug and play to 8+ wins, it should be plug and play to 6 wins, especially given that we have gone the cupcake route OOC.

4 wins to me would signal systemic failure and a need to either flood the roster to JC talent or reassess the coaching hires, with the latter being the most likely course of action.

So what say you, 4 win crowd? Would the season be a failure or "eh, that's Cougar football..."?

Considering everything we lost and the number of question marks, I don’t think 4 is out of the question. Trying to look objectively, if you tell me a team has lost their top 2 QBs and will likely start someone who’s never thrown a pass in college, lost 2 of their 3 RBs, top 2 receivers, 3 OL, most of the DL, and turned over most of the coaching staff...yeah, I’m going to say that team isn’t going to win much.

But...I think we get more than 4. Our non-conference schedule is favorable - I think we should get all 3. EWU might be the toughest one, but they’re in a similar position to us. OSU, CU, and Cal seem vulnerable, and a couple others could be beatable. I think I can see anywhere from 4 to 8 as reasonable, but 4 would take some bad bounces

 

[YakiCoug]

Lolohea isn’t the only JC transfer. Misiona Aiolupotea-Pea, a 6-3 260-pounder who is very explosive, arrives this summer. And if Ngalu Tapa returns and is in shape; our depth improves dramatically. Ahmir Crowder also could see PT.

1. QB situation will work itself out. Always does under CML.

2. Cougs will find just enough playmakers at WR to have an edge on most opposing secondaries.

3. D-Line will be adequate if the JuCo transfer develops quickly and the injury bug does not bite.

4. The O-Line? I’ll admit this may be a work in progress all season.

Over/Under: 7.5 wins

As of mid-April? I’ll take the over.

 

[Cougzz]

I predicted four wins twenty years ago and the Cougs went to the Rose Bowl. So don’t ask me.

 

[79COUG]

4 wins and I would consider it a failure...big time. I will be pleased with 7. I'll be "wait till next year" with 6. But 4? Nope, I'll be pissed.

 

[Coug95man2]

4 wins just seems extreme to me.

I get it. We lost 2 QB's, a massive portion of our coaching staff has had turnaround, etc. etc. But 4 wins?! Maybe I'm splitting a hair but we should be competitive in 8-9 games and win minimum of 6.

Here's my eval of our team, our coach, our program. We've grown up. We are past the "making excuses" stage. I give a 5 win season this year as an option ONLY because no one could ever have imagined us losing a QB the way we did. Psychologically, and logistically, that hurt and will for a good chunk of time. So this year, I'll give 5 wins as a possibility. But in any given year, if we don't go to a 6 win season, orange slices and rainbows bowl game MINIMUM, I won't be happy. Even a 6 win season, I'm disappointed but we got the bowl. So for me, we should be living between 7 wins and 9 wins, every year. Period. 10 wins will happen and they'll be the holy grail. 6 wins will happen and I'll be disappointed. But we LIVE between 7-9, IMHO.

We play Big Boy football now. Slowly, every year, I expect a bit more until we have a tradition of 7 wins, minimum. We are there. But I'm not going to allow my expectations to slide back for no reason and turn-over is not a reason. The QB situation is a reason hence even talking about 5 wins.

 

[CougEd]

Doesn't accepting sub .500 football defeat the purpose of bringing in a big name/ big $$$ coach like Leach? Isn't the whole point so that we aren't the doormat anymore? At least under his regime?

Yes, after he leaves I fully expect football at the levels not seen since 2008 to return, as I don't think the current administration is fully invested in the success of the program, but we'll see.

No it doesn't defeat the purpose

 

[CougEd]

Ditto here. With our non-con schedule, no way should or will we only win 4 games. or ever - as long as CML is our coach.

Didn't we lose to Rutgers, Portland State, Eastern Washington? The best advice we ever got was from a Tech fan. Came in before Leach ever coached a practice and said Leach will lose a game that there is no way he should, and he will win a game he has no business winning. So going 3-0 in non conference is not a lock. I watched when a Mailk Roberson led defense shut down the Cougs while at PSU...and he has since been fired. So while I would like to believe they will be 3-0 in non conference but it certainly is not a given.

 

[fingerdisco]

4 wins just seems extreme to me.

I get it. We lost 2 QB's, a massive portion of our coaching staff has had turnaround, etc. etc. But 4 wins?! Maybe I'm splitting a hair but we should be competitive in 8-9 games and win minimum of 6.

Here's my eval of our team, our coach, our program. We've grown up. We are past the "making excuses" stage. I give a 5 win season this year as an option ONLY because no one could ever have imagined us losing a QB the way we did. Psychologically, and logistically, that hurt and will for a good chunk of time. So this year, I'll give 5 wins as a possibility. But in any given year, if we don't go to a 6 win season, orange slices and rainbows bowl game MINIMUM, I won't be happy. Even a 6 win season, I'm disappointed but we got the bowl. So for me, we should be living between 7 wins and 9 wins, every year. Period. 10 wins will happen and they'll be the holy grail. 6 wins will happen and I'll be disappointed. But we LIVE between 7-9, IMHO.

We play Big Boy football now. Slowly, every year, I expect a bit more until we have a tradition of 7 wins, minimum. We are there. But I'm not going to allow my expectations to slide back for no reason and turn-over is not a reason. The QB situation is a reason hence even talking about 5 wins.

I get the expectations, but if Jimbo Fisher can go 5-6 like he did last season with the recruiting classes they've been pulling in at FSU, I don't know why Leach can't be allowed a stinker every once in a while.

 

[Coug95man2]

I get the expectations, but if Jimbo Fisher can go 5-6 like he did last season with the recruiting classes they've been pulling in at FSU, I don't know why Leach can't be allowed a stinker every once in a while.

Well I guess this goes to what I mean or what others mean. I wouldn't call for CML's head or anything. But for lack of a better term, I'll use someone else's phrase, "I'll be pissed".

In a normal season, if we had 4 or 5 wins, I'd expect a coaching rotation. Our CB's couldn't stick to the WR's, as an example? OK, fire the CB coach. I just don't see 4 or 5 wins being OK. Not now. I'm not going to be a guy that will continually expect 9 or 10 wins and if we don't I'll call for CML's head or anything. But I don't think 6 wins is that much to ask, honestly.

So in short, I get a "stinker" every once in a while but that doesn't mean it's acceptable. And to me a stinker requires an "affect". Cause and affect. You win 4 or 5 games, something should happen, like a coaching change among the assistants.

Also to clarify, I'm not so rigid as to recognize if there are extenuating circumstances, that we should all give a mulligan. But we are talking in a generic sense. I won't play the "what if" game. Everyone can come up with circumstances to make a 4 win season "acceptable".

 

[CougEd]

You've planted your flag and made your case, so how do you feel about it?

I'm wondering because I thought we (cz posters) came to a pretty wide consensus that 6 wins SHOULD be the low water mark for this program going forward, ESPECIALLY after a full 4 years to get his guys in place.

4 wins to me is unacceptable. We have a great coach in place, who has recruited increasingly better talent every year to the point that while it may not be plug and play to 8+ wins, it should be plug and play to 6 wins, especially given that we have gone the cupcake route OOC.

4 wins to me would signal systemic failure and a need to either flood the roster to JC talent or reassess the coaching hires, with the latter being the most likely course of action.

So what say you, 4 win crowd? Would the season be a failure or "eh, that's Cougar football..."?

I mentioned four wins. If the flag was planted it was planted in very loose dirt. We had a very good QB that had four years of experience leave. We had another kid very talented and experienced and we know about his unfortunate tragedy.

We enter the season with no experience at QB, 3/5's of our line needing to be replaced. Our defensive line has zero experience. They may be good, but then again they may be good but inexperienced and under sized. Hercules at times was one of the top 5 dlineman in the country, and yet we couldn't stop Arizona and UW at all. I know people say the inexperienced linebackers who had their eyes in the wrong spot was the cause. Now we have inexperienced Dlineman so I could see growing pains there.

Cal beat us the way the UW beat us...coverage. Why will that be different? Oregon will be favored, as will Stanford, USC, Arizona and Washington. I think Utah is a toss up in Vegas and OSU we should be favored.

In terms of recruiting, why do you say it is better? There could be a legitimate argument recruiting has gone backwards. Have you seen a Destiny, Barber, Tapa, Eukale, Hercules on the field? We use to have probably 5 quality and experienced dlineman during a season. We have zero idea what we really have this year.

Maybe Gordon or Tinsley are the next Luke Falk. Cooper is suppose to be the real deal. But my guess is he will need a year before he is comfortable.

And along the oline we have had attrition. Do we really know what type of talent we have on the oline?

The point is after looking at each position, it is hard to argue recruiting has been better even if the star ranking says something different. I just don't see Gabe Marks or a river Cracraft out there among the receivers. I see a team with enough holes to take a pretty big step back.

And the question is am I ok with it? Yeah I am. I believe like Price Leach knows what he is doing and he would make the correct changes to get us back to 9 wins.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I mentioned four wins. If the flag was planted it was planted in very loose dirt. We had a very good QB that had four years of experience leave. We had another kid very talented and experienced and we know about his unfortunate tragedy.

We enter the season with no experience at QB, 3/5's of our line needing to be replaced. Our defensive line has zero experience. They may be good, but then again they may be good but inexperienced and under sized. Hercules at times was one of the top 5 dlineman in the country, and yet we couldn't stop Arizona and UW at all. I know people say the inexperienced linebackers who had their eyes in the wrong spot was the cause. Now we have inexperienced Dlineman so I could see growing pains there.

Cal beat us the way the UW beat us...coverage. Why will that be different? Oregon will be favored, as will Stanford, USC, Arizona and Washington. I think Utah is a toss up in Vegas and OSU we should be favored.

In terms of recruiting, why do you say it is better? There could be a legitimate argument recruiting has gone backwards. Have you seen a Destiny, Barber, Tapa, Eukale, Hercules on the field? We use to have probably 5 quality and experienced dlineman during a season. We have zero idea what we really have this year.

Maybe Gordon or Tinsley are the next Luke Falk. Cooper is suppose to be the real deal. But my guess is he will need a year before he is comfortable.

And along the oline we have had attrition. Do we really know what type of talent we have on the oline?

The point is after looking at each position, it is hard to argue recruiting has been better even if the star ranking says something different. I just don't see Gabe Marks or a river Cracraft out there among the receivers. I see a team with enough holes to take a pretty big step back.

And the question is am I ok with it? Yeah I am. I believe like Price Leach knows what he is doing and he would make the correct changes to get us back to 9 wins.

Since 2008, rivals recruiting rankings:
87 92 90 72 56 53 69 55 52 51 46

Don't think I need to tell you when we took a 40 position jump. Regardless of what position recruiting is, our overall recruiting has improved, meaning depth and quality of depth is improved. This is football 101, Ed. Even trying to imply that recruiting has gone backwards since Leach has arrived is moronic.

 

[CougEd]

Since 2008, rivals recruiting rankings:
87 92 90 72 56 53 69 55 52 51 46

Don't think I need to tell you when we took a 40 position jump. Regardless of what position recruiting is, our overall recruiting has improved, meaning depth and quality of depth is improved. This is football 101, Ed. Even trying to imply that recruiting has gone backwards since Leach has arrived is moronic.

Why are you going back to 2008?

 

[Cougatron]

Why are you going back to 2008?

BECAUSE ED THAT'S WHEN THE PROGRAM WENT TO SH*T AND EVERYBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN KNOWS IT.

 

[CougEd]

BECAUSE ED THAT'S WHEN THE PROGRAM WENT TO SH*T AND EVERYBODY WITH HALF A BRAIN KNOWS IT.

Again, what does that have to do with today? Let me give you a snippet of what I am talking about. In Leach's first class this here is a list of names....Allison, Barber, destiny, Gata, Taylor T, Palacio, Marks, West and Middleton. His second class Sorenson, Eukale, White, Dotson, Mayle, Lemora, Morrow, Wicks, Madison, McLennan, Cracraft, O'Connell, Begg.

Now take a peak at 2014 which should be our senior class- Hercules-gone. Dillard(very good), Fernandez(played very limited minutes his first fours years in the program) Luvu (gone) and Singleton. Then look at the kids who didn't make it- Canty, Ware, Porter, Tapa, Bender, Evers, Griffin, Zaire, Hoyd.

When people talk about recruiting being better, it may be better from year to year under Leach in terms of ranking, but it could be argued we are inexperienced at key positions because they had a couple classes wash out. And I am not sure 2015 was any better than 14. It certainly wasn't the quality of 12 and 13.

 

[CougEd]

I get the expectations, but if Jimbo Fisher can go 5-6 like he did last season with the recruiting classes they've been pulling in at FSU, I don't know why Leach can't be allowed a stinker every once in a while.

Didn't he just get a huge raise to go elsewhere?

 

[fingerdisco]

Didn't he just get a huge raise to go elsewhere?

That falls in line with my point—good coaches have down years from time to time. Texas A&M didn’t seem too concerned about his 2017 record based on the amount of money they lured him away with.

 

[CougEd]

That falls in line with my point—good coaches have down years from time to time. Texas A&M didn’t seem too concerned about his 2017 record based on the amount of money they lured him away with.

Agree

 

[425cougfan]

Again, what does that have to do with today? Let me give you a snippet of what I am talking about. In Leach's first class this here is a list of names....Allison, Barber, destiny, Gata, Taylor T, Palacio, Marks, West and Middleton. His second class Sorenson, Eukale, White, Dotson, Mayle, Lemora, Morrow, Wicks, Madison, McLennan, Cracraft, O'Connell, Begg.

Now take a peak at 2014 which should be our senior class- Hercules-gone. Dillard(very good), Fernandez(played very limited minutes his first fours years in the program) Luvu (gone) and Singleton. Then look at the kids who didn't make it- Canty, Ware, Porter, Tapa, Bender, Evers, Griffin, Zaire, Hoyd.

When people talk about recruiting being better, it may be better from year to year under Leach in terms of ranking, but it could be argued we are inexperienced at key positions because they had a couple classes wash out. And I am not sure 2015 was any better than 14. It certainly wasn't the quality of 12 and 13.

The 2014 class was brutal, without doubt. That's been discussed in a lot of fora. The 2015 class had some whiffs and attrition for sure, but also had a lot of good players and contributors (Luani, Tavares Martin (for a while), Dale, Hilinski, Molton, Williams, Sweet, Myers, Parker, Tago, Oguayo, Harper). Still not outstanding but not like that 2014 stinker.

 

[PeteTheChop]

I see a team with enough holes to take a pretty big step back.

CML has had one bad season in 16 years as a head coach.

One.

Sandwiched between the New Mexico Bowl in 2013 and the 2015 Sun Bowl, the Cougs went 3-9.

That included the crazy loss to Rutgers in the Seattle Game, the 7-point defeat at Martin when WSU went toe-to-toe with No. 2 Oregon and the heartbreaking collapse in Pullman against Cal.

That team very well could've been 6-6 and headed to another bowl game with a little good fortune.

 

[425cougfan]

CML has had one bad season in 16 years as a head coach.

One.

Sandwiched between the New Mexico Bowl in 2013 and the 2015 Sun Bowl, the Cougs went 3-9.

That included the crazy loss to Rutgers in the Seattle Game, the 7-point defeat at Martin when WSU went toe-to-toe with No. 2 Oregon and the heartbreaking collapse in Pullman against Cal.

That team very well could've been 6-6 and headed to another bowl game with a little good fortune.

2012 was pretty awful, even though I think he should get some leeway for obvious reasons.

 

[FnuLnu]

CML has had one bad season in 16 years as a head coach.

One.

Sandwiched between the New Mexico Bowl in 2013 and the 2015 Sun Bowl, the Cougs went 3-9.

That included the crazy loss to Rutgers in the Seattle Game, the 7-point defeat at Martin when WSU went toe-to-toe with No. 2 Oregon and the heartbreaking collapse in Pullman against Cal.

That team very well could've been 6-6 and headed to another bowl game with a little good fortune.

Too bad Jeff Tuel got hurt?

 

[Cougatron]

Again, what does that have to do with today?

He was showing how recruiting has improved to today.

Then you come in (as usual) and try to play down the players we have gotten and that somehow despite all these classes produced one of the best 3 year spans in our HISTORY.

Seriously Ed go back and look at our history and find me 3 winning seasons in a row of 8-9 wins.

How many times has that happened in the HISTORY of WSU? Yet “all these classes that were a wash”

Gabe Marks - all time reviving leader for school and one of the tops in pac 12 history.
Vince Mayle - NFL player with barely any football experience. River Cracraft on The broncos
Shalom Luani - Soccer player turned NFL draftee
Multiple all American lineman. O’connell, and Madison
RBs like Jamal Morrow who are at the tops of all purpose yards.
LBs like Luvu, Tago, Peuller, Woods, Allison
DBs like freshmen all American Milton and who could forget “the greatest cb ever alive pippins”, Sean Harper, Hunter Dale, Jalen Thompson
Mata’afa, Barber, Destiny Vaeo (who now has a super bowl ring)

And somehow somehow through the magic of only your own idiocy and warped view you fail to see the OVERALL recruiting progress?

We just beat out Stanford for a RB scored one the best QBs in Utah an Army All American receiver, multiple big bodies that are incredibly athletic...and yet somehow... there is nobody or whatever bs you spew on here.

You are the epitome of why I want WSU to raise its admission standards, we deserve people with an IQ higher than potato.

 

[Loyal Coug]

He was showing how recruiting has improved to today.

Then you come in (as usual) and try to play down the players we have gotten and that somehow despite all these classes produced one of the best 3 year spans in our HISTORY.

Seriously Ed go back and look at our history and find me 3 winning seasons in a row of 8-9 wins.

How many times has that happened in the HISTORY of WSU? Yet “all these classes that were a wash”

Gabe Marks - all time reviving leader for school and one of the tops in pac 12 history.
Vince Mayle - NFL player with barely any football experience. River Cracraft on The broncos
Shalom Luani - Soccer player turned NFL draftee
Multiple all American lineman. O’connell, and Madison
RBs like Jamal Morrow who are at the tops of all purpose yards.
LBs like Luvu, Tago, Peuller, Woods, Allison
DBs like freshmen all American Milton and who could forget “the greatest cb ever alive pippins”, Sean Harper, Hunter Dale, Jalen Thompson
Mata’afa, Barber, Destiny Vaeo (who now has a super bowl ring)

And somehow somehow through the magic of only your own idiocy and warped view you fail to see the OVERALL recruiting progress?

We just beat out Stanford for a RB scored one the best QBs in Utah an Army All American receiver, multiple big bodies that are incredibly athletic...and yet somehow... there is nobody or whatever bs you spew on here.

You are the epitome of why I want WSU to raise its admission standards, we deserve people with an IQ higher than potato.

You kind of had me agreeing with you - then we got to the IQ of a potato sentence, then your idiotic pictures. Kinda think ya should not talk about people's IQ's while you cling onto those like Linus to his blanket. Just pointing out the obvious........

 

[Cougatron]

You kind of had me agreeing with you - then we got to the IQ of a potato sentence, then your idiotic pictures. Kinda think ya should not talk about people's IQ's while you cling onto those like Linus to his blanket. Just pointing out the obvious........

Here's some obvious things for you Loyal.

I don't want any praise or excuses for a coach who had a .184 winning percentage and won a grand total of 4 conference games in 4 years. no winning seasons, and 3 seasons of 2 wins or less. NO EXCUSES FOR HIM, NO PRAISE FOR HIM EVER. PERIOD.

I also don't think WSU as a program shouldn't take cues from a guy who went WINLESS in his last season coaching Division I football. Period. Does Notre Dame call up ole Tyrone Willingham and have him tell them who to hire and what to do and let him ramble on about his BS. NO. You know why? Because only fools would do such a thing. We are fools no longer.

I also want a team that recruits lineman, and no 2-3 is not enough for us. We need 4-5 every year. Everyone should know that, every fan should understand that. It's important for our success.

Now that all SHOULD BE common sense to people, but apparently it is hard for people to get it in their head. So the pictures stay.

And I stick by my IQ greater than potato comment because we need smart fans. Not dumb ones. Dumb ones got us .184 winning percentage excuses and winless coaches telling us who to hire and what to do. NO MORE OF THAT.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Here's some obvious things for you Loyal.

I don't want any praise or excuses for a coach who had a .184 winning percentage and won a grand total of 4 conference games in 4 years. no winning seasons, and 3 seasons of 2 wins or less. NO EXCUSES FOR HIM, NO PRAISE FOR HIM EVER. PERIOD.

I also don't think WSU as a program shouldn't take cues from a guy who went WINLESS in his last season coaching Division I football. Period. Does Notre Dame call up ole Tyrone Willingham and have him tell them who to hire and what to do and let him ramble on about his BS. NO. You know why? Because only fools would do such a thing. We are fools no longer.

I also want a team that recruits lineman, and no 2-3 is not enough for us. We need 4-5 every year. Everyone should know that, every fan should understand that. It's important for our success.

Now that all SHOULD BE common sense to people, but apparently it is hard for people to get it in their head. So the pictures stay.

And I stick by my IQ greater than potato comment because we need smart fans. Not dumb ones. Dumb ones got us .184 winning percentage excuses and winless coaches telling us who to hire and what to do. NO MORE OF THAT.

Dang, I had no idea that you felt this way about any former coaches. Guess you have been keeping it bottled up inside.

You and good 'ol Ed have one thing in common. You both spend a lot of time in the past.........

 

[kayak15]

I get the expectations, but if Jimbo Fisher can go 5-6 like he did last season with the recruiting classes they've been pulling in at FSU, I don't know why Leach can't be allowed a stinker every once in a while.

I still do not understand that. How can one have a losing season at FSU and then be snapped up by Texas A&M? Weird. We've spent our lives in the wrong professions.

 

[Coug90]

I'd give him a pass if it happens this year. Losing your most experienced QB in the way this team did is something that nobody could have anticipated or planned for, but will certainly be difficult to overcome.

Bingo, I don’t necessarily think we will only win 4, but considering what has transpired at QB1 and basically resetting at that position unexpectedly it wouldn’t shock me if we only had 4-5 wins. PAC is pretty tough top to bottom as conferences go and sometimes the margin is pretty thin between 4-8 and 8-4.

 

[CougPatrol]

I think we'll win more than 4 games, but I do think we're particularly vulnerable to injuries at key positions this season, namely QB, DL, OL. Yes, injuries at key position can erode any roster, but last year we had more quality backups at those positions.

 

[chipdouglas]

You've planted your flag and made your case, so how do you feel about it?

I'm wondering because I thought we (cz posters) came to a pretty wide consensus that 6 wins SHOULD be the low water mark for this program going forward, ESPECIALLY after a full 4 years to get his guys in place.

4 wins to me is unacceptable. We have a great coach in place, who has recruited increasingly better talent every year to the point that while it may not be plug and play to 8+ wins, it should be plug and play to 6 wins, especially given that we have gone the cupcake route OOC.

4 wins to me would signal systemic failure and a need to either flood the roster to JC talent or reassess the coaching hires, with the latter being the most likely course of action.

So what say you, 4 win crowd? Would the season be a failure or "eh, that's Cougar football..."?

• 0-3 wins: everyone freaks, season is regarded as Strike 2 for CML (having skipped Strike 1), unofficial ultimatums issued for 2019, CML would be fired after 2-3 years of this.
• 4-6 wins: half the fans freak, season is regarded as a rebuilding year, CML loses a couple fans but could continue on this trajectory for 4+ more years.
• 7 wins: frustrated fans feel like we're taking a step back, other fans step in to remind that we're still over 0.500 and ask if cynics want to return to our abysmal win/bowl history, CML could do this for 5+ more years
• 8-9 wins: season is generally regarded as a competitive one, but some fans start to get impatient that we can't take things to the next level. CML could last 10-15 years here.
• 10+ wins: fanbase gets progressively higher expectations, but CML would die on the field before he gets fired racking up this many wins.