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Question for the 4 wins crowd

chipdouglas said:
  • 0-3 wins: everyone freaks, season is regarded as Strike 2 for CML (having skipped Strike 1), unofficial ultimatums issued for 2019, CML would be fired after 2-3 years of this.
  • 4-6 wins: half the fans freak, season is regarded as a rebuilding year, CML loses a couple fans but could continue on this trajectory for 4+ more years.
  • 7 wins: frustrated fans feel like we're taking a step back, other fans step in to remind that we're still over 0.500 and ask if cynics want to return to our abysmal win/bowl history, CML could do this for 5+ more years
  • 8-9 wins: season is generally regarded as a competitive one, but some fans start to get impatient that we can't take things to the next level. CML could last 10-15 years here.
  • 10+ wins: fanbase gets progressively higher expectations, but CML would die on the field before he gets fired racking up this many wins.
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At 0-3, I agree that we'd all be upset. Not sure I'd call it strike 2. I think 2 seasons here would create significant rumblings, and 3 years may end in the bread line.

I'd edit your 2nd category and make it 4-5 wins. Without being able to point at a series of key injuries, I think this leads to the bread line in the 4 years you reference.

6-7 wins: Your description is probably accurate, this wouldn't feel very satisfying to many. But 6-7 wins every year means a bowl every year, I think he could survive at that level. If we're 6-6 and in minor bowls for 5 years, I don't think the seat gets hot, but the natives are restless, he doesn't get raises/extensions, and as long as there's a decent coach available at the end of 5, nobody is that upset if he's replaced. But I don't think he gets canned.

8-9 wins: Those who are complaining about the next step are seriously outnumbered by those who remember when an 8 win season was outstanding. With 8-9 wins per year, Leach retires from WSU.

10+ wins: A statue of Leach gets built outside the stadium, and fans burn ritual sacrifices in front of it. FOB becomes the Leach Center. Mascot gets renamed Mike. Every coach for the next 50 years is compared to him.
 
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Cougatron said:
Here's some obvious things for you Loyal.

I don't want any praise or excuses for a coach who had a .184 winning percentage and won a grand total of 4 conference games in 4 years. no winning seasons, and 3 seasons of 2 wins or less. NO EXCUSES FOR HIM, NO PRAISE FOR HIM EVER. PERIOD.

I also don't think WSU as a program shouldn't take cues from a guy who went WINLESS in his last season coaching Division I football. Period. Does Notre Dame call up ole Tyrone Willingham and have him tell them who to hire and what to do and let him ramble on about his BS. NO. You know why? Because only fools would do such a thing. We are fools no longer.

I also want a team that recruits lineman, and no 2-3 is not enough for us. We need 4-5 every year. Everyone should know that, every fan should understand that. It's important for our success.

Now that all SHOULD BE common sense to people, but apparently it is hard for people to get it in their head. So the pictures stay.

And I stick by my IQ greater than potato comment because we need smart fans. Not dumb ones. Dumb ones got us .184 winning percentage excuses and winless coaches telling us who to hire and what to do. NO MORE OF THAT.
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Tron...I am back from being eviscerated by MegaDouche. Funny, you really believe anything you say really bothers me? Ummm....who is downplaying what Leach has accomplished? He is fantastic. What does that have to do with this coming season? He lost a lot of key contributors, factor in the 2014 and 2015 classes and it is not unlikely we wont have growing pains and a 5-7 win season, and no it wouldn't surprise me if we only won four games.

But I digress. What does 2008 have anything to do with MY comment? Yes, I know we would love to believe 2008 was the finishing point or starting point of Cougar football. My comment was about recruiting under Leach. Just to get on with a discussion Wulff should burn in hell, he was the worse thing ever that happened to WSU, not just the football team, he sucked on every level and deserves everything bad that ever happened to him.

Now that we got past that, what does that have to do with commenting recruiting has been improving? 2014 by all accounts was a disaster. Is 2014 better than 2013 or 2012? No, especially on dline. We don't know how 2018 and 2017 will play out. 2014/2015 class they have one Dlineman returning and he played limited minutes. (Fernandez). And it has to be noted Hercules was a great pick up and left early so leaving a big hole which is made more problematic by the misses in recruiting. Or not getting enough lineman.

Let me ask you the following-why didn't we hire Leach in 2008 and 2010?
 
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PeteTheChop said:
1. QB situation will work itself out. Always does under CML.

2. Cougs will find just enough playmakers at WR to have an edge on most opposing secondaries.

3. D-Line will be adequate if the JuCo transfer develops quickly and the injury bug does not bite.

4. The O-Line? I’ll admit this may be a work in progress all season.

Over/Under: 7.5 wins

As of mid-April? I’ll take the over.
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Pete...only thing I would say is there a lot of "if's". If our dline jells, if our oline plays adequate, if we get good qb play, if our secondary can replace Pippins :) , if we find a playmaker for our new QB. That is why my over under would be at 5.5.
 
PeteTheChop said:
CML has had one bad season in 16 years as a head coach.

One.

Sandwiched between the New Mexico Bowl in 2013 and the 2015 Sun Bowl, the Cougs went 3-9.

That included the crazy loss to Rutgers in the Seattle Game, the 7-point defeat at Martin when WSU went toe-to-toe with No. 2 Oregon and the heartbreaking collapse in Pullman against Cal.

That team very well could've been 6-6 and headed to another bowl game with a little good fortune.
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Pete that does fly both ways. In 2013 we played for a bowl game against Utah. Utah was down to a walkon QB and threw two picks for TD's and yet almost pulled out that win. Falk was absolutely heroic, beat Rutgers on the last play in 2015, against Oregon and i believe one other team. My only point is it is razor thin between wins and losses.
 
BleedCrimsonandGray said:
Since 2008, rivals recruiting rankings:
87 92 90 72 56 53 69 55 52 51 46

Don't think I need to tell you when we took a 40 position jump. Regardless of what position recruiting is, our overall recruiting has improved, meaning depth and quality of depth is improved. This is football 101, Ed. Even trying to imply that recruiting has gone backwards since Leach has arrived is moronic.
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Well I guess I am moronic. Do you believe 2014 and 2015 classes are better or worse than 2012 and 2013? 2017 and 2018 are too early to evaluate. But if you want to use 2008 as your benchmark which it seems like you do, feel free.
 
CougEd said:
Well I guess I am moronic. Do you believe 2014 and 2015 classes are better or worse than 2012 and 2013? 2017 and 2018 are too early to evaluate. But if you want to use 2008 as your benchmark which it seems like you do, feel free.
Click to expand...

You were moronic enough to compare Wulff's first two recruiting classes to Price's 1998 and 1999 classes, so ...
 
CougEd said:
2014 by all accounts was a disaster.

Let me ask you the following-why didn't we hire Leach in 2008 and 2010?
Click to expand...

“2014 by all accounts was a disaster”

Keith Harrington our RB along with James Williams
Frankie Luvu 4 year contributor starter probably going to play in the NFL
Hercules Mata’afa - Polynesian Player of the year defensive player of the year going to be drafted
Dillard, Fernandez, Tapa (possibly) contributing this year.

That is 6 players out of 25. 2 going to the NFL and 4 contributing this year.

Some “disaster”.

The QB from the class is starting at Kansas because he was surplanted by the all time pac 12 passing leader.

Everyone from 2014 class should be a RS Senior or gone if they could play. So whatever you think the “disaster from 2014” it is totally irrelevant. Even though we still have some contributors.

The reason is if they were big impact players that could start their freshmen year...

2014 would be their freshmen year
2015 would be their soph
2016 would be their junior
2017 would be...their senior year

Eligibility for 2018? They wouldn’t have any

Only those that were redshirt candidates and that can play will still be around and yet we still have meaningful contributors

2015 is the first impact year for 2018. And going through that class you will see many guys contributing this upcoming season.

Dale
Molton
Oguayo
Mattox
Williams
Etc. etc.

2016 even more names all over who are contributors and to show you how 2015/2016 is important for 2018

2016 - freshmen
2017 - soph
2018 - Junior or RS Soph

2015/2016 are the bulk upperclassmen experienced players for 2018.

Whatever “disaster” you think 2014 was it should have killed us then last year and guess what. Nope. 9 wins... never lost a home game...

Every single class you try to get better players and more impact players than the last. That’s building. That’s improving Ed, and that’s exactly what we have been doing.

The 2018 team is made up of

2015
2016
2017
2018

Players Ed. If we are lucky we have a few from 2014.

44 players make up a 2 deep and that should be the best we can make from all those classes.

Some players don’t make the cut ed. This isn’t juice box and orange slice participation that you love so much.


We didn’t hire Leach in 2008 because he was winning 11 games and we were listening to idiots like Walden on who to hire instead of getting James Franklin whose wife is a WSU alum.
 
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I still think 4 wins is the floor this year, because there's too many variables in the 2 deep that will have to go our way, and there's a whole new collection of assistant coaches. I'd call that something of a rebuilding year, but depending on how the ball bounces and what we see from the personnel that emerge, we might end up being a division favorite next year, in my mind at least, after this new group gets itself together. The overall trend of the program is still steadily up as far as I can see, though the defensive line and kicking game worry me. One year of 4 wins followed by 8+ the next would not have me calling for anybody's head.
 
Nice counter to yet another ediotic post. Some of those 2014 class members transferred to get more PT (Bender, Canada, Porter, Leniu, Krepz) but contributed some while in Pullman. One was kicked off the team. One failed to qualify. One is still in school and might return this fall. One graduated (Hoyd). One had to quit football due to injuries. Stuff happens, and as you point out, the "disaster" should have wiped out last season.
This isn't to say WSU won't drop off a bit this fall. Hilinski's death was something no one saw coming, and he would have replaced a walk-on that Ed and other aPaulogists dismissed very early on, just as Ed dismissed Cody O'Connell from the beginning. His Ediocy has been dissing Leach's recruiting - and pissing and moaning - from the very start. It's not much of a surprise to see his repetitive drivel here once again.
As for the 2018 prospects, the WR positions very easily could be better than last season. Bell, Martin, and Calvin have a year of PT under their belts. Sweet is a savvy senior, Martin a rising star. Winston is turning heads this spring, as is the freshman speedster Rodrick Fisher (Ed's dismissal of his 10.4 100 meter time notwithstanding). Dru Jackson will certainly complement Dezmon Patmon.
It's no secret that many are in a wait-and-see mode on the interior d-line, but there was some concern going into last year as well.

Cougatron said:
“2014 by all accounts was a disaster”

Keith Harrington our RB along with James Williams
Frankie Luvu 4 year contributor starter probably going to play in the NFL
Hercules Mata’afa - Polynesian Player of the year defensive player of the year going to be drafted
Dillard, Fernandez, Tapa (possibly) contributing this year.

That is 6 players out of 25. 2 going to the NFL and 4 contributing this year.

Some “disaster”.

The QB from the class is starting at Kansas because he was surplanted by the all time pac 12 passing leader.

Everyone from 2014 class should be a RS Senior or gone if they could play. So whatever you think the “disaster from 2014” it is totally irrelevant. Even though we still have some contributors.

The reason is if they were big impact players that could start their freshmen year...

2014 would be their freshmen year
2015 would be their soph
2016 would be their junior
2017 would be...their senior year

Eligibility for 2018? They wouldn’t have any

Only those that were redshirt candidates and that can play will still be around and yet we still have meaningful contributors

2015 is the first impact year for 2018. And going through that class you will see many guys contributing this upcoming season.

Dale
Molton
Oguayo
Mattox
Williams
Etc. etc.

2016 even more names all over who are contributors and to show you how 2015/2016 is important for 2018

2016 - freshmen
2017 - soph
2018 - Junior or RS Soph

2015/2016 are the bulk upperclassmen experienced players for 2018.

Whatever “disaster” you think 2014 was it should have killed us then last year and guess what. Nope. 9 wins... never lost a home game...

Every single class you try to get better players and more impact players than the last. That’s building. That’s improving Ed, and that’s exactly what we have been doing.

The 2018 team is made up of

2015
2016
2017
2018

Players Ed. If we are lucky we have a few from 2014.

44 players make up a 2 deep and that should be the best we can make from all those classes.

Some players don’t make the cut ed. This isn’t juice box and orange slice participation that you love so much.


We didn’t hire Leach in 2008 because he was winning 11 games and we were listening to idiots like Walden on who to hire instead of getting James Franklin whose wife is a WSU alum.
Click to expand...
 
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Cougatron said:
“2014 by all accounts was a disaster”

Keith Harrington our RB along with James Williams
Frankie Luvu 4 year contributor starter probably going to play in the NFL
Hercules Mata’afa - Polynesian Player of the year defensive player of the year going to be drafted
Dillard, Fernandez, Tapa (possibly) contributing this year.

That is 6 players out of 25. 2 going to the NFL and 4 contributing this year.

Some “disaster”.

The QB from the class is starting at Kansas because he was surplanted by the all time pac 12 passing leader.

Everyone from 2014 class should be a RS Senior or gone if they could play. So whatever you think the “disaster from 2014” it is totally irrelevant. Even though we still have some contributors.

The reason is if they were big impact players that could start their freshmen year...

2014 would be their freshmen year
2015 would be their soph
2016 would be their junior
2017 would be...their senior year

Eligibility for 2018? They wouldn’t have any

Only those that were redshirt candidates and that can play will still be around and yet we still have meaningful contributors

2015 is the first impact year for 2018. And going through that class you will see many guys contributing this upcoming season.

Dale
Molton
Oguayo
Mattox
Williams
Etc. etc.

2016 even more names all over who are contributors and to show you how 2015/2016 is important for 2018

2016 - freshmen
2017 - soph
2018 - Junior or RS Soph

2015/2016 are the bulk upperclassmen experienced players for 2018.

Whatever “disaster” you think 2014 was it should have killed us then last year and guess what. Nope. 9 wins... never lost a home game...

Every single class you try to get better players and more impact players than the last. That’s building. That’s improving Ed, and that’s exactly what we have been doing.

The 2018 team is made up of

2015
2016
2017
2018

Players Ed. If we are lucky we have a few from 2014.

44 players make up a 2 deep and that should be the best we can make from all those classes.

Some players don’t make the cut ed. This isn’t juice box and orange slice participation that you love so much.


We didn’t hire Leach in 2008 because he was winning 11 games and we were listening to idiots like Walden on who to hire instead of getting James Franklin whose wife is a WSU alum.
Click to expand...
]

Well whoever was in charge and also on the committee (Floyd, Sterk and Moos) the buck stops with them. You give Walden waaayyy too much credit.

Thanks for listing NAMES that were recruited in 2014 and are still on the team. Do you believe 2014 and 2015 is better than than 2012 and 2013? If the answer is no then my comments are accurate in that it can be debated that our recruiting is getting better. Again, 2017 and 2018 might be dynamite classes. It is just too early to tell.

You listed a TOTAL of 6 players, two that are no longer with us. A back up running back with no time last year in Harrington, Fernandez who has played in extremely limited snaps, Dillard who is very good and two players who have left the program. That is six players.

You listed a bunch of contributors from the 2015 class. You know what you didn't list? Interior defensive lineman, and none with a great deal of experience. You went as far as listing Tapa as a potential contributor. Is he even on the spring roster?

Yes there were a couple of nice players from the 2014 class. As there were in the 1994 class for Mike Price. That may have been the highest ranking class WSU ever had and it was a bust. Just as 2011 was a bust.

Things happen in recruiting. There is no question that Leach if he does struggle this year he will get it fixed. But to say that 2014 and 15 is on par with 2012 and 2013, that recruiting is definitely getting better for Leach (a comparison to his own classes) is not correct, or at least is up for debate. And that the reason for a drop off if one occurs will be a result of a substandard Mike Leach class in comparison to HIS previous classes at WSU
 
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YakiCoug said:
Nice counter to yet another ediotic post. Some of those 2014 class members transferred to get more PT (Bender, Canada, Porter, Leniu, Krepz) but contributed some while in Pullman. One was kicked off the team. One failed to qualify. One is still in school and might return this fall. One graduated (Hoyd). One had to quit football due to injuries. Stuff happens, and as you point out, the "disaster" should have wiped out last season.
This isn't to say WSU won't drop off a bit this fall. Hilinski's death was something no one saw coming, and he would have replaced a walk-on that Ed and other aPaulogists dismissed very early on, just as Ed dismissed Cody O'Connell from the beginning. His Ediocy has been dissing Leach's recruiting - and pissing and moaning - from the very start. It's not much of a surprise to see his repetitive drivel here once again.
As for the 2018 prospects, the WR positions very easily could be better than last season. Bell, Martin, and Calvin have a year of PT under their belts. Sweet is a savvy senior, Martin a rising star. Winston is turning heads this spring, as is the freshman speedster Rodrick Fisher (Ed's dismissal of his 10.4 100 meter time notwithstanding). Dru Jackson will certainly complement Dezmon Patmon.
It's no secret that many are in a wait-and-see mode on the interior d-line, but there was some concern going into last year as well.
Click to expand...

Well if I was rooting for all the other teams that Bender, Canada, Leniu (I think is playing in the Cali Pen League) then I would agree that 2014 was a great class. By using the YAki Bell Curve 2011 was a dynamite class because Demetrius Cherry started at ASU, David Davis transferred and started for Cal, Jordan Simone was all conference and started for ASU, Daryl Paulo started for WSU. Oh can't forget Chester Sua who transferred as well.

The problem is attrition. It happens. It happened with the 94 class and that great class became a disaster as well. Am I concerned at all if Leach has a down year by his standards that it won't be fixed? Not at all. But I can't sit here and tell you we aren't lacking senior leadership and talent because because of a bad class in 2014.

And who did I diss again? Luke Falk? Actually it was Ty Bruggman. I always like Falk after what he did against OSU in his first start.

And what did I say about O'Connell?
 
CougEd said:
]

Well whoever was in charge and also on the committee (Floyd, Sterk and Moos) the buck stops with them. You give Walden waaayyy too much credit.

Thanks for listing NAMES that were recruited in 2014 and are still on the team. Do you believe 2014 and 2015 is better than than 2012 and 2013? If the answer is no then my comments are accurate in that it can be debated that our recruiting is getting better. Again, 2017 and 2018 might be dynamite classes. It is just too early to tell.

You listed a TOTAL of 6 players, two that are no longer with us. A back up running back with no time last year in Harrington, Fernandez who has played in extremely limited snaps, Dillard who is very good and two players who have left the program. That is six players.

You listed a bunch of contributors from the 2015 class. You know what you didn't list? Interior defensive lineman, and none with a great deal of experience. You went as far as listing Tapa as a potential contributor. Is he even on the spring roster?

Yes there were a couple of nice players from the 2014 class. As there were in the 1994 class for Mike Price. That may have been the highest ranking class WSU ever had and it was a bust. Just as 2011 was a bust.

Things happen in recruiting. There is no question that Leach if he does struggle this year he will get it fixed. But to say that 2014 and 15 is on par with 2012 and 2013, that recruiting is definitely getting better for Leach (a comparison to his own classes) is not correct, or at least is up for debate. And that the reason for a drop off if one occurs will be a result of a substandard Mike Leach class in comparison to HIS previous classes at WSU
Click to expand...


Ed you have this warped view of how recruiting works. A roster isn't comprised of 1 class. It is comprised of many classes some players rise up and take roster spots, some don't, some transfer. The overall caliber of player is increasing. That's confirmed by the recruiting rankings and the results on the field resulting in one of the best 3 year spans in the history of the program.

As I stated to you the 2014 class should be graduated by now except for those who RS. If you are getting better players later than the 2014 class. Wouldn't they be replaced by 2015, 2016, 2017 players... if those are better? Of course. Because if you are recruiting better and better players... the ones you got further back... Aren't as good... and then won't be playing down the line. Because they are better....improving recruiting...

2012,2013 players were what we had to start with so they get in....but in the depth battle...the more recent can and will supplant others. If in 2014 you take a mid grade player who is on the roster adding depth but not good enough to start yet...but then you get a really good player in 2015 who has a better upside. Do you just start the one you took in 2014 or do you put in the guy who gives you the greatest chance to win. You go with the best available. And if your recruiting is continuing to improve...guess what Ed. you are usually chasing those newer players who are supplanting the older ones.
 
CougEd said:
]

Well whoever was in charge and also on the committee (Floyd, Sterk and Moos) the buck stops with them. You give Walden waaayyy too much credit.

Thanks for listing NAMES that were recruited in 2014 and are still on the team. Do you believe 2014 and 2015 is better than than 2012 and 2013? If the answer is no then my comments are accurate in that it can be debated that our recruiting is getting better. Again, 2017 and 2018 might be dynamite classes. It is just too early to tell.

You listed a TOTAL of 6 players, two that are no longer with us. A back up running back with no time last year in Harrington, Fernandez who has played in extremely limited snaps, Dillard who is very good and two players who have left the program. That is six players.

You listed a bunch of contributors from the 2015 class. You know what you didn't list? Interior defensive lineman, and none with a great deal of experience. You went as far as listing Tapa as a potential contributor. Is he even on the spring roster?

Yes there were a couple of nice players from the 2014 class. As there were in the 1994 class for Mike Price. That may have been the highest ranking class WSU ever had and it was a bust. Just as 2011 was a bust.

Things happen in recruiting. There is no question that Leach if he does struggle this year he will get it fixed. But to say that 2014 and 15 is on par with 2012 and 2013, that recruiting is definitely getting better for Leach (a comparison to his own classes) is not correct, or at least is up for debate. And that the reason for a drop off if one occurs will be a result of a substandard Mike Leach class in comparison to HIS previous classes at WSU
Click to expand...
3, 6, 3, 9, 8, 9—that’s CML’s wins per season since he’s been here. That sure has the appearance of improved recruiting. That said, if you want to pick out a year here or there where MAYBE there was a dip in quality and hold it up as the single point that defines your downward trend, have fun with that.
 
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Cougatron said:
Ed you have this warped view of how recruiting works. A roster isn't comprised of 1 class. It is comprised of many classes some players rise up and take roster spots, some don't, some transfer. The overall caliber of player is increasing. That's confirmed by the recruiting rankings and the results on the field resulting in one of the best 3 year spans in the history of the program.

As I stated to you the 2014 class should be graduated by now except for those who RS. If you are getting better players later than the 2014 class. Wouldn't they be replaced by 2015, 2016, 2017 players... if those are better? Of course. Because if you are recruiting better and better players... the ones you got further back... Aren't as good... and then won't be playing down the line. Because they are better....improving recruiting...

2012,2013 players were what we had to start with so they get in....but in the depth battle...the more recent can and will supplant others. If in 2014 you take a mid grade player who is on the roster adding depth but not good enough to start yet...but then you get a really good player in 2015 who has a better upside. Do you just start the one you took in 2014 or do you put in the guy who gives you the greatest chance to win. You go with the best available. And if your recruiting is continuing to improve...guess what Ed. you are usually chasing those newer players who are supplanting the older ones.
Click to expand...

Tron, I know that you love messing around with ED (and others), but you are completely full of crap about that 2014 class. Nobody ever looks at a recruiting class that has only six guys with any kind of success and thinks, "Good job!". Worse yet, Tapa has been gone for years because he flopped out academically and Harrington, while not a flop, hasn't been a significant contributor to this point because there have been better players in front of him most of the time. Fernandez has been a role player with limited impact so far. You act like Peyton Bender was some steal for Kansas but the reality is that he was benched for most of the latter part of the season because he was ineffective. That 2014 class was embarrassingly bad and to pretend otherwise is just ignoring reality. In truth, only three guys from that class have played significant roles for our team. Harrington will have a chance this year to change his legacy here.

I think Ed's wrong about the 2015 class because at least when you look at that class, there are a number of guys that saw decent action (although a couple never lived up to their hype). Harper, Dimry, Oguayo, Sweet, Luani, Tago, Molton, Williams, Dale and Parker all made an impact to some degree at WSU. I wouldn't rate the 2015 class a flop, alhough JC guys were the big contributors to that classes relevance for us.
 
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Flatlandcoug said:
Tron, I know that you love messing around with ED (and others), but you are completely full of crap about that 2014 class. Nobody ever looks at a recruiting class that has only six guys with any kind of success and thinks, "Good job!". Worse yet, Tapa has been gone for years because he flopped out academically and Harrington, while not a flop, hasn't been a significant contributor to this point because there have been better players in front of him most of the time. Fernandez has been a role player with limited impact so far. You act like Peyton Bender was some steal for Kansas but the reality is that he was benched for most of the latter part of the season because he was ineffective. That 2014 class was embarrassingly bad and to pretend otherwise is just ignoring reality.
Click to expand...

Let’s go by each person in the 2014 class.

Squally Canada RB now at BYU. Wasn’t going to supplant Wicks, Morrow, Williams
https://saturdayblitz.com/2018/02/27/byu-football-squally-canada-lot-momentum-entering-2018/

Peyton Bender wasn’t going to supplant the all time PAC 12 passing leader in Luke Falk. Starting for Kanas
https://kuathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=13959

How embarrassingly bad! A QB and a RB both starting when they couldn’t start for us (because we had better options)

Calvin Green, Barry Ware, Zaire Andre
All gone because of grades and or couldn’t supplant the guys we had. They were given chances they didn’t hack it or screwed up.
https://www.cougcenter.com/2015/8/28/9218467/wsu-receiver-transfers-football-zaire-andre

Green hit and run arrests
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ested-for-hit-and-run-two-other-misdemeanors/

Zaire Andre is now at Incarnate Word playing for former WSU WSU coach turned HC Eric Morris
https://www.cardinalathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6762

Barry Ware had grades issues went to JUCO
http://www.sacdons.com/sports/fball/2016-17/bios/ware_barry_awo9

Suli Hameed started early but suffered injuries.
https://247sports.com/college/washi...fety-Suli-Hameed-hangs-up-the-cleats-74975481

Jalen Canty was a risk but was incredibly athletic.
Now playing basketball at UC Santa Barbara
http://www.ucsbgauchos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/bios/Canty-Jalen

Patrick Porter was very talented but got lost in the shuffle when Breske was out and other guys took hold to Grinch quicker so he left.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2015/oct/20/wsu-practice-notes-pat-porter-leaves-cougars/

Farrar went JUCO and then ended up at USF
http://gousfbulls.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=7960

Taylor comfort contributed on special teams still on team
http://wsucougars.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3649

Deion Singleton - deferred still on team has contributed

Kevin Griffin, contributed early but couldn’t hack it. Replaced by better players
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/dec/23/freshman-cornerback-kevin-griffin-leaves-wsu/

Sean Krepz - wanted to play early behind too many guys ended up playing for the guy who is our OL coach now at Nevada
https://nevadawolfpack.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=332

Malik Condiff - strange kid trying to walk on USC and Oregon when we would have given him a chance
https://oregon.rivals.com/news/condiff-to-walk-on-at-uo

Hoyd - never really cracked the starting roster but he was around and graduated.

Harrington, Luvu, Mata’afa, Dillard all people you know and made the limelight.

Fernandez/Tapa may contribute in their final year

But this class was no disaster tons play division I somewhere else but had to transfer because they weren’t good enough to supplant people.
 
No one is saying the 2014 class as a whole was a success. Reading comprehension isn’t a strength for you, I suppose. Tapa has been gone for years? He sat out last season (Hooperbole is alive!). Harrington was excellent on ST last year and made significant contributions at RB and receiving the year before (idiots here remember only the fumbles v. UO, however). And Krepz left because “Leach is taking too many linemen!” By all means continue your and E.D.’s circle jerk of pissing and moaning.


Flatlandcoug said:
Tron, I know that you love messing around with ED (and others), but you are completely full of crap about that 2014 class. Nobody ever looks at a recruiting class that has only six guys with any kind of success and thinks, "Good job!". Worse yet, Tapa has been gone for years because he flopped out academically and Harrington, while not a flop, hasn't been a significant contributor to this point because there have been better players in front of him most of the time. Fernandez has been a role player with limited impact so far. You act like Peyton Bender was some steal for Kansas but the reality is that he was benched for most of the latter part of the season because he was ineffective. That 2014 class was embarrassingly bad and to pretend otherwise is just ignoring reality. In truth, only three guys from that class have played significant roles for our team. Harrington will have a chance this year to change his legacy here.

I think Ed's wrong about the 2015 class because at least when you look at that class, there are a number of guys that saw decent action (although a couple never lived up to their hype). Harper, Dimry, Oguayo, Sweet, Luani, Tago, Molton, Williams, Dale and Parker all made an impact to some degree at WSU. I wouldn't rate the 2015 class a flop, alhough JC guys were the big contributors to that classes relevance for us.
Click to expand...
 
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fingerdisco said:
3, 6, 3, 9, 8, 9—that’s CML’s wins per season since he’s been here. That sure has the appearance of improved recruiting. That said, if you want to pick out a year here or there where MAYBE there was a dip in quality and hold it up as the single point that defines your downward trend, have fun with that.
Click to expand...
Ed has gone Aspergers over one recruiting class for years. It began in 2008 with his moronic comparison of Wulff’s first class with the 1999 class and how ‘99 was the sole reason for 2001-2003. Iron laws limit WSU/Leach to just one good class every four or five years, as you know...
 
Cougatron said:
Let’s go by each person in the 2014 class.

Squally Canada RB now at BYU. Wasn’t going to supplant Wicks, Morrow, Williams
https://saturdayblitz.com/2018/02/27/byu-football-squally-canada-lot-momentum-entering-2018/

Peyton Bender wasn’t going to supplant the all time PAC 12 passing leader in Luke Falk. Starting for Kanas
https://kuathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=13959

How embarrassingly bad! A QB and a RB both starting when they couldn’t start for us (because we had better options)

Calvin Green, Barry Ware, Zaire Andre
All gone because of grades and or couldn’t supplant the guys we had. They were given chances they didn’t hack it or screwed up.
https://www.cougcenter.com/2015/8/28/9218467/wsu-receiver-transfers-football-zaire-andre

Green hit and run arrests
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ested-for-hit-and-run-two-other-misdemeanors/

Zaire Andre is now at Incarnate Word playing for former WSU WSU coach turned HC Eric Morris
https://www.cardinalathletics.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=6762

Barry Ware had grades issues went to JUCO
http://www.sacdons.com/sports/fball/2016-17/bios/ware_barry_awo9

Suli Hameed started early but suffered injuries.
https://247sports.com/college/washi...fety-Suli-Hameed-hangs-up-the-cleats-74975481

Jalen Canty was a risk but was incredibly athletic.
Now playing basketball at UC Santa Barbara
http://www.ucsbgauchos.com/sports/m-baskbl/2017-18/bios/Canty-Jalen

Patrick Porter was very talented but got lost in the shuffle when Breske was out and other guys took hold to Grinch quicker so he left.
http://www.spokesman.com/blogs/sportslink/2015/oct/20/wsu-practice-notes-pat-porter-leaves-cougars/

Farrar went JUCO and then ended up at USF
http://gousfbulls.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=7960

Taylor comfort contributed on special teams still on team
http://wsucougars.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=3649

Deion Singleton - deferred still on team has contributed

Kevin Griffin, contributed early but couldn’t hack it. Replaced by better players
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/dec/23/freshman-cornerback-kevin-griffin-leaves-wsu/

Sean Krepz - wanted to play early behind too many guys ended up playing for the guy who is our OL coach now at Nevada
https://nevadawolfpack.com/roster.aspx?rp_id=332

Malik Condiff - strange kid trying to walk on USC and Oregon when we would have given him a chance
https://oregon.rivals.com/news/condiff-to-walk-on-at-uo

Hoyd - never really cracked the starting roster but he was around and graduated.

Harrington, Luvu, Mata’afa, Dillard all people you know and made the limelight.

Fernandez/Tapa may contribute in their final year

But this class was no disaster tons play division I somewhere else but had to transfer because they weren’t good enough to supplant people.
Click to expand...

You just spent a lot of effort proving my point.

Bad grades, transfers, guys who quit football completely, guys who went to Incarnate Word? Jesus Christ man! You're gonna pull a muscle reaching. That 2014 class was a disaster for WSU. Every time you suggest otherwise, you are damaging your credibility on any other subject.

I do hope that Harrington does well this year, but he's contributed a total of 62 yards of offense in the past two seasons combined. I also hope that Fernandez and Tapa finish strong. That still means that you are HOPING that 6 out of 19 work out but so far only 3 out of 19 proved to be multi-year starters. That's bad.....real bad. You don't build a successful football program when you are getting 3 good players, 3 guys who might only end up being good enough to start for one year and 68% were never relevant.

A good class of 19 would have been 5 or 6 multi-year starters plus another 4 or 5 guys that at least made the two deep. It's normal for 1/3rd to 1/2 of the players to not work out. It's not normal for 13 to 16 out of 19 to not make any real impact. That's where the 2014 class is right now.
 
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Flatlandcoug said:
You just spent a lot of effort proving my point.

Bad grades, transfers, guys who quit football completely, guys who went to Incarnate Word? Jesus Christ man! You're gonna pull a muscle reaching. That 2014 class was a disaster for WSU. Every time you suggest otherwise, you are damaging your credibility on any other subject.

I do hope that Harrington does well this year, but he's contributed a total of 62 yards of offense in the past two seasons combined. I also hope that Fernandez and Tapa finish strong. That still means that you are HOPING that 6 out of 19 work out but so far only 3 out of 19 proved to be multi-year starters. That's bad.....real bad. You don't build a successful football program when you are getting 3 good players, 3 guys who might only end up being good enough to start for one year and 68% were never relevant.

A good class of 19 would have been 5 or 6 multi-year starters plus another 4 or 5 guys that at least made the two deep. It's normal for 1/3rd to 1/2 of the players to not work out. It's not normal for 13 to 16 out of 19 to not make any real impact. That's where the 2014 class is right now.
Click to expand...

It's a disaster that didn't prevent WSU from winning most of its games the past three seasons, which is Tron's point.
 
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Classes build your program. Recruiting players to bolt for lower levels doesn't help the Cougs. And many of those players took off before they had much of an impact here. This was a class where we didn't recruit a single JC player and only 3 players are still on the roster. The failure of this group is a big reason we've been recruiting more JC's in recent years.

The true impact of the 2014 class won't be felt until this year, when you would expect, in any remotely decent class, to have 5-6 players contributing as fifth year seniors. These are the backbone of any team, guys who have been around, know the plays and can teach the younger guys what's expected. We don't have a lot of veteran leadership this year. The impact of this is uncertain.
 
etowncoug said:
Classes build your program. Recruiting players to bolt for lower levels doesn't help the Cougs. And many of those players took off before they had much of an impact here. This was a class where we didn't recruit a single JC player and only 3 players are still on the roster. The failure of this group is a big reason we've been recruiting more JC's in recent years

The true impact of the 2014 class won't be felt until this year, when you would expect, in any remotely decent class, to have 5-6 players contributing as fifth year seniors. These are the backbone of any team, guys who have been around, know the plays and can teach the younger guys what's expected. We don't have a lot of veteran leadership this year. The impact of this is uncertain.
Click to expand...


Wrong wrong wrong wrong. As I said earlier 2014 players have already graduated except for 5th year seniors.

I will tell you exactly how many 5th year RS every team in the PAC 12 has going into 2018.

Oregon - 7
UW - 0 (Omg disaster!!!!)
USC - 13 (wow couldn’t beat us in Pullman with all that senior leadership!)
UCLA - 7
Arizona - 9
Cal - 16 (no bowl game with that but wow so many RS seniors)
Utah - 12* (no idea how many are RS Sr but I counted all 12 seniors as RS seniors)
Stanford - 10
Oregon State - 0
Arizona State - 14

There you alllll go. That’s how many RS Sr. Are on each roster

How many do we have?

10.

Imagine that exactly about the medium.


This “2014 class was a disaster” is a myth made up in the heads of people who have no idea how roster management works.

There is no “magical team” that has 25 RS seniors from the 2014 class that are all starters. None. Not 1.

And the most any team has is 16 which could be considered only 60% of a class.

Honestly whatever little weirdo thoughts you all have in your head just stop and check and do a little research. Fortunately I am not a lazy poster and will do the work, but it would save you all the embarrassment of being shown that we have pretty much exactly the same number of RS seniors as other teams in the conference. And no team has 25 of them. Or 20 of them and most don’t have 15 of them.

And nobody is going to have a 2014 guy on their 2019 roster barring some exception like Pelleur got.

So whatever “2014 was a disaster” idea you all have dreamed up, it is a work of fiction only in the minds of people who don’t pay attention and can’t discern basic roster management concepts.
 
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Cougatron said:
Wrong wrong wrong wrong. As I said earlier 2014 players have already graduated except for 5th year seniors.

I will tell you exactly how many 5th year RS every team in the PAC 12 has going into 2018.

Oregon - 7
UW - 0 (Omg disaster!!!!)
USC - 13 (wow couldn’t beat us in Pullman with all that senior leadership!)
UCLA - 7
Arizona - 9
Cal - 16 (no bowl game with that but wow so many RS seniors)
Utah - 12* (no idea how many are RS Sr but I counted all 12 seniors as RS seniors)
Stanford - 10
Oregon State - 0
Arizona State - 14

There you alllll go. That’s how many RS Sr. Are on each roster

How many do we have?

10.

Imagine that exactly about the medium.


This “2014 class was a disaster” is a myth made up in the heads of people who have no idea how roster management works.

There is no “magical team” that has 25 RS seniors from the 2014 class that are all starters. None. Not 1.

And the most any team has is 16 which could be considered only 60% of a class.

Honestly whatever little weirdo thoughts you all have in your head just stop and check and do a little research. Fortunately I am not a lazy poster and will do the work, but it would save you all the embarrassment of being shown that we have pretty much exactly the same number of RS seniors as other teams in the conference. And no team has 25 of them. Or 20 of them and most don’t have 15 of them.

And nobody is going to have a 2014 guy on their 2019 roster barring some exception like Pelleur got.

So whatever “2014 was a disaster” idea you all have dreamed up, it is a work of fiction only in the minds of people who don’t pay attention and can’t discern basic roster management concepts.
Click to expand...

Quit being a jackass. This wasn't about how many guys are left on the roster. It's about guys contributing at all. I loved your USC comment....they go to a BCS bowl and play in the Pac-12 championship game, but that doesn't matter because we beat them? Way to piss on our victory, champ! Going back to the stupidity of your analysis, just looking at UW, they had the following guys who actually contributed from their 2014 class:

Brayden Lenius: played in 40 games, started 7
Budda Baker: Ummmmm.....yeah.....in the NFL
Kaleb McGary: started 31 games and played in every game that he could....NFL draft lock, Pac 12 first team
Jaylen Johnson: played in 36 games, started 1
Will Dissly: played in 40 games, started 17, Pac-12 Honorable Mention
Dante Pettis: you might have heard of him
Jomon Dotson: played in 31 games
Jesse Sosebee: played in 39 games, started in 10
Tristan Vizcaino: multi-year starter, Pac-12 honorable mention
Shane Bowman: played in 29 games
Greg Gaines: multi year starter, pac-12 2nd team
Drew Sample: multi-year starter, pac 12 honorable mention
Joseph Mcintosh: multi-year starter, pac-12 2nd team
Darren Gardenhire: played in 38 games, started in 10 of them
Matt James: played in 28 games, started in 2 of them
Brandon Lewis: played in 15 games

So, out of 23 commits, the mutts had 16 guys who played at their recruited position in double digit games (not just special teams), 10 guys who started in double digit number of games, 8 guys that had some sort of All Pac-12 honors. Yeah....their class was terrible. BTW, you're lazy in your research, because McIntosh, Gaines, McGary, Sosebee, Johnson, and Bowman are still on the UW roster. I'm not going to waste my time looking at Oregon State, but you are just a jacka$$ for continuing to pretend like you know what you are talking about. Let it go. Our 2014 class sucked balls and you know it. It doesn't mean that Leach sucks overall, it just means that we had a bad year.

EDIT: Which 10 guys from our 2014 class are still on the roster?
 
Last edited:
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Flatlandcoug said:
Quit being a jackass. This wasn't about how many guys are left on the roster. It's about guys contributing at all.
Click to expand...

The claims were as following:

"2014 by all accounts was a disaster." /

"When people talk about recruiting being better, it may be better from year to year under Leach in terms of ranking, but it could be argued we are inexperienced at key positions because they had a couple classes wash out. And I am not sure 2015 was any better than 14."

"But I can't sit here and tell you we aren't lacking senior leadership and talent because because of a bad class in 2014."

These are the claims.

So to sum this all up very quickly.

A class of 2014 recruit would go down the following path in their eligibility.

2014 - Fresh / RS
2015 - Soph / RS Fresh
2016 - Junior / RS Soph
2017 - Senior / RS Junior
2018 - RS Senior

Is this clear. This should be a basic clear understanding to people on how time / eligibility works.

What year is this season. 2018.

That means that the only thing we could have during this season is RS Seniors from 2014. Period. That's it. See how it is 2018. See how the class matures over time. The only thing from 2018 we could have is RS Senior.

Now Let's look at our record during that time.

3-9 - 2014 - Fresh / RS
9-4 - 2015 - Soph / RS Fresh
8-5 - 2016 - Junior / RS Soph
9-4 2017 - Senior / RS Junior
? 2018 - RS Senior

This is where the claims fall apart.

"When people talk about recruiting being better, it may be better from year to year under Leach in terms of ranking, but it could be argued we are inexperienced at key positions because they had a couple classes wash out. And I am not sure 2015 was any better than 14."

How did we improve and get better from 2015-2017 if the recruiting isn't getting better? If 2014 is what we are purely dependent on then it would be impossible to get the following results. UNLESS the recruiting is getting better and those players were replaced with players recruited later...

If the recruiting was not getting better, and 2014 is all we had then 2014 is the reason we had 3 winning seasons.

These contradict each other. You can't claim the recruiting isn't improving, but also say 2014 is a disaster AND improve and have 3 winning seasons one of the best runs in this history of the program. It is illogical, and honestly quite stupid.

Finally the 2018 - "Leadership we are missing" statement as I showed by looking up all RS Seniors on rosters in the Pac-12 shows we have just about as many RS Seniors as everybody else.

Here is the list.



Those are the RS Seniors. and just like the other teams in the Pac-12 some of their RS Seniors are big contributors, some are not, some are just depth. Just like all the other teams.

So whatever "2014 Disaster" you all have cooked up in your head it is wrong. The results on the field don't illustrate it. The current number of RS Seniors on the roster don't show it. It is all in your head.

This the final and last attempt of this "2014 disaster" class to effect the program. After this year no team will have 2014 players as all 5 possible years of eligibility are gone.

And on 1 final note. I REALLY encourage people to understand how to actually evaluate things. There isn't any magic to what I do. I just follow basic principles of logic. You guys are good at the guessing, but horrible on the testing when it comes to your delusional theories.

 
Man.....you're dumbass is showing in a big way. You..........need........to..........stop. You took the time to link to every player but didn't take the time to look at what the WSU webpage actually said. For your benefit, here is what I found:

Solomon Cooper is a class of 2016 juco transfer
Chima Onyeukwu is a class of 2016 juco transfer
Levi Hanson is a walk-on who joined the team in 2016
Anthony Castillo is a class of 2016 juco transfer
Taylor Comfort is a walk-on (but at least joined the team in 2014)
Kyle Celli is a walk-on who got in the team after trying out for long snapper in his sophomore year at WSU. He wasn't on the team in 2014.
Robert Valenica is a 2017 juco transfer
Marcus Wyke is a walk-on who joined the team in 2017
Nick Begg was a class of 2013 recruit who gray-shirted. I suppose you can count him.

Fernandez, Dillard, and Harrington were actually part of that 2014 recruiting class. You are trying to twist the conversation here to hide the fact that you are wrong. This wasn't a conversation about who is on any given team this year as a redshirt senior. It was a conversation about the utter failure of the 2014 class and the lack of contributions from most of the players recruited that year.
 
Flatlandcoug said:
Fernandez, Dillard, and Harrington were actually part of that 2014 recruiting class. You are trying to twist the conversation here to hide the fact that you are wrong. This wasn't a conversation about who is on any given team this year as a redshirt senior. It was a conversation about the utter failure of the 2014 class and the lack of contributions from most of the players recruited that year.
Click to expand...

Thanks Flatland.

I'll just add that I don't think the 2018 squad is doomed by a lack of talent from the 2014 class. But our success this year will be inspite of a disaster class.

Maybe a better question: if the 2014 class isn't a disaster, what would it take for a class to be considered one?
 
This illustrates the culture on this board perfectly. I'll probably piss off both sides, but here goes:

- The 2014 class was pretty awful. Sorry, this is almost inarguable. 2015 wasn't stellar but wasn't too bad, as I and others addressed above. It probably is meaningful that we won't have many redshirt senior, mature players from that 2014 class this year, although it's hard to quantify that effect, especially in advance.

- Leach's recruiting is not "trending down" and hasn't dropped off. Showing that one class in 2014 sucked, despite him being able to bring in some good recruits upon his hiring in 2012, doesn't demonstrate a trend. It shows one bad class with the benefit of hindsight.
 
425cougfan said:
This illustrates the culture on this board perfectly. I'll probably piss off both sides, but here goes:

- The 2014 class was pretty awful. Sorry, this is almost inarguable. 2015 wasn't stellar but wasn't too bad, as I and others addressed above. It probably is meaningful that we won't have many redshirt senior, mature players from that 2014 class this year, although it's hard to quantify that effect, especially in advance.

- Leach's recruiting is not "trending down" and hasn't dropped off. Showing that one class in 2014 sucked, despite him being able to bring in some good recruits upon his hiring in 2012, doesn't demonstrate a trend. It shows one bad class with the benefit of hindsight.
Click to expand...

This thread has me mesmerized. I hope there are another 2-300 posts debating the quality and quantity of the 2014 class. o_O
 
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[/QUOTE]
Ummm...thanks for listing a bunch of players who have never played. Guess what, the 1994 class that was a disaster that didn't show up right away. It was not until 1998 that the lack of quality EXPERIENCED players reared its ugly head. If you want to make the argument Leach recruited really good players in 2014 and they all transferred, flunked out, got burned out, got in legal trouble, or in two cases used up their eligibility, fine. But what is measured is the number of quality players left. That leaves what ...Dillard one of the few who have played and has experience.

And one class does not define the direction of the program. The question that led off the post was why some would think this MAYBE a 4 win team. The loss of Tyler, early departure of Hercules, lack of big bodies in 2014 and 2015 make a 4 win season a possibility.

Does that define Leach as a coach if he does go 4-8 or 5-7, or there is some systemic problem. Nope. It means young kids have to step up. From 2014 and 2015 he has two bodies on the Dline. Fernandez...played limited minutes and Mattox-moved to OG and now back on the dline.

From 2014/15 and 16 No Tapa, no Bender, no Toki, no Canty, no Feheko, no Bartly, no Mitchell. McBroom used up his eligibilty. From 2014 to 2016 here is who we have available on the dline...Fernandez (limited snaps in 3 years), Oguayo (240), Moore (240), Mattox(never took a snap). That means we are relying on no experience, very young players, and in some cases not a lot of size.

Does that match up with Destiny, Gauta, Barber and Eukale in two classes? Maybe that just set the bar way higher as they were big and good.
 
425cougfan said:
This illustrates the culture on this board perfectly. I'll probably piss off both sides, but here goes:

- The 2014 class was pretty awful. Sorry, this is almost inarguable. 2015 wasn't stellar but wasn't too bad, as I and others addressed above. It probably is meaningful that we won't have many redshirt senior, mature players from that 2014 class this year, although it's hard to quantify that effect, especially in advance.

- Leach's recruiting is not "trending down" and hasn't dropped off. Showing that one class in 2014 sucked, despite him being able to bring in some good recruits upon his hiring in 2012, doesn't demonstrate a trend. It shows one bad class with the benefit of hindsight.
Click to expand...

As I said earlier, one crappy class doesn't define Leach and if anything, recruiting is getting better, not worse. I just find it laughable to see the lengths that Tron is going to here to try to defend a bad position. There isn't a single person on this board who hasn't made a post that they realized was wrong and Tron just needs to realize it was his turn.
 
Our defensive line is still slow and undersized. We lose experience at corner. We will be starting either a true frosh QB or a guy who played at a mid major last year. We have a tough schedule conference schedule. Leach has only won 1 opener since he has been here, and this year its on the road.

2-1 OOC, 2-7 in conference is not out of the realm of possibility.

I expect we will get walloped by USC, Oregon, Arizona, and Washington. The other 8 games will be close, but young teams don't tend to win a lot of close games.
 
Flatlandcoug said:
As I said earlier, one crappy class doesn't define Leach and if anything, recruiting is getting better, not worse. I just find it laughable to see the lengths that Tron is going to here to try to defend a bad position. There isn't a single person on this board who hasn't made a post that they realized was wrong and Tron just needs to realize it was his turn.
Click to expand...

Uh wait - I've never posted anything wrong. Well maybe once.
fingerdisco said:
Then don't f'ing read it. It really is that simple.
Click to expand...

But I can't stay away. It's like a John Grisham or Harlan Coben book! And now my buddy Ed has brought up the 1994 recruiting class. Yay! That's good for another 500 posts AT LEAST! We are set for entertainment for the next 6 months. :)

Ed posted: Guess what, the 1994 class that was a disaster that didn't show up right away. It was not until 1998 that the lack of quality EXPERIENCED players reared its ugly head.
 
wazzucougs96 said:
Our defensive line is still slow and undersized. We lose experience at corner. We will be starting either a true frosh QB or a guy who played at a mid major last year. We have a tough schedule conference schedule. Leach has only won 1 opener since he has been here, and this year its on the road.

2-1 OOC, 2-7 in conference is not out of the realm of possibility.

I expect we will get walloped by USC, Oregon, Arizona, and Washington. The other 8 games will be close, but young teams don't tend to win a lot of close games.
Click to expand...
While our transfer may be in the mix, from everything I've heard, Tinsley and Gordon are the 2 in the front of the line, right now. Don't know where you got your info... Why do you think a true frosh (assuming Cooper) is the man?
 
Not saying I'm in the 4 win crowd but...

1) Breaking in a new QB with no game experience in Leach system. Also not sold on the transfer who put up okay number for a BAD team.

2) New D coordinator

3) WRs were a weakness last year and TBD if we've gotten better. Who's going to keep the DBs honest...? Who has the speed to beat people deep?

4) We lost our best defensive player

5) Replacing key guys on o-line.

For these and other reasons, I think it's reasonable to temper expectations. Somewhere between 4 and 7 wins is what I expect.
 
wazzucougs96 said:
Our defensive line is still slow and undersized. We lose experience at corner. We will be starting either a true frosh QB or a guy who played at a mid major last year. We have a tough schedule conference schedule. Leach has only won 1 opener since he has been here, and this year its on the road.

2-1 OOC, 2-7 in conference is not out of the realm of possibility.

I expect we will get walloped by USC, Oregon, Arizona, and Washington. The other 8 games will be close, but young teams don't tend to win a lot of close games.
Click to expand...

I don’t disagree entirely with your point, but there are a lot of counterpoints to be made.

First, regarding the QB position, it’s not accurate to refer to his ECU experience as being “mid-major.” They play the likes of UCF, South Florida, Houston, Cincinnati, Navy. Not murderes row by P5 standards, but certainly not worse than the MWC; teams that WSU and many P12 teams routinely struggle with. Also, our current QBs are kids with pedigree, who are being coached by one of the greatest passing minds in a generation. I’d wager that in at least 7 of our games, we’ll have the better QB under center regardless of who’s playing.

I’ll also be surprised if we lose a nonconfernce game this season. Why? Because this team is unproven and will be highly motivated. We might not be as talented as the past 2 seasons, but we won’t come out flat. Looking at our depth at RB, LB, QB, and DB, I can’t see how Wyoming, San Jose St, or EWU beat us. None of those clubs are expected to be much in their respective leagues this season.

The conference schedule will be challenging. It’s a tough league. The power teams will give us problems, because they always do. The barometer for a successful season will be how we do against the bottom 8 teams. Arizona in Pullman in November isn’t a gimme for them. Colorado and Cal aren’t world beaters. Oregon State and Oregon aren’t without problems.

We have a chance at a bowl game this season. As good a chance as 8 other teams in our league.
 
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East Carolina went 3-9 last year in the American.

Minshew played in 10 games for the Pirates last season and started in five of those. He threw for 2,140 yards, completing 57 percent of his passes while tossing 16 touchdowns to seven interceptions. The team finished 3-9.
 
wazzucougs96 said:
East Carolina went 3-9 last year in the American.

Minshew played in 10 games for the Pirates last season and started in five of those. He threw for 2,140 yards, completing 57 percent of his passes while tossing 16 touchdowns to seven interceptions. The team finished 3-9.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely taking a wait and see attitude about the guy
 
wazzucougs96 said:
East Carolina went 3-9 last year in the American.

Minshew played in 10 games for the Pirates last season and started in five of those. He threw for 2,140 yards, completing 57 percent of his passes while tossing 16 touchdowns to seven interceptions. The team finished 3-9.
Click to expand...

Not sure the point you're trying to make, but those stats are on 304 attempts, when the team also ran nearly 400 times.
 
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The Beasley Baseline
Flatlandcoug
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AC in the news...

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The Beasley Baseline
Loyal Coug1
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