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The case for and against an improved defense next season...

How_did_this_happen?

How_did_this_happen?

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Case for:
-Loss of a certain picked on corner back who shall not be singled out by name :D
-McDougal is a beast/a difference maker
-Returning starters (at LB and safety in particular)
-New CB recruits from JCs
-Claeys is back

Case against:
-Loss of Pelluer (big loss) and Tago (another big loss)
-Loss of Harper, Comfort, and Dale

What do you all think? What did I miss?

Overall, I think we should be better. How much? Not sure, but incrementally better (not necessarily a step function better) is really all we need.

https://wsucougars.com/roster.aspx?roster=1158&path=football
 
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If you cant stop the inside run, itll be a long day.

If you cant stop the deep ball, itll be a quick day.

WSU gets better inside and adds 4 JC DBs. Im optimistic there will be no long or quick days.
 
Our DL should be bigger and stronger next year....I'm expecting Rodgers and Harris to be dominant this next year. Hopefully Nnamdi can put on some more weight. In the secondary, I think strong and thompson can be an all conference type players. Curious where Deion Singleton will line up this spring. Will they move him to Nickel, or will they move him to corner possibly.
Little worried about the lb position.
 
DL: Potential to be a big step up vs last year with McDougle anchoring the line, plus tons of returning players, and big youthful players a year bigger and stronger working into the rotation. Zero reasons for taking any steps back, really no reason for anything less than major improvements. This area was my #1 concern last year, but probably my least area of concern this year.

LB: Either a step back, or about the same performance. We still seem a bit small, not very deep, + not a lot of speed. My only hope is that someone surprises the heck out of us. My biggest area of concern, because if we are still lacking in the athleticsm/speed department, then our field general/leadership strengths of Pelluer are gone too. So who replaces that?

DB and Safety: No reason to see us taking any steps back. Either just as good at safety, or a bit better. CB, no worse, or a pretty good possibility that some of the youth or JC's step up and improve our CB play vs last year. I feel pretty good at both positions. Remember, we would have been much better over the course of last year had Harper not gone down with an injury.

Overall: I think a bigger/stronger and improved DL makes life easier for our LBs and Secondary, resulting in a defense that is overall a little better than last year.
 
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ShockandAweWSU said:
Our DL should be bigger and stronger next year....I'm expecting Rodgers and Harris to be dominant this next year. Hopefully Nnamdi can put on some more weight. In the secondary, I think strong and thompson can be an all conference type players. Curious where Deion Singleton will line up this spring. Will they move him to Nickel, or will they move him to corner possibly.
Little worried about the lb position.
Click to expand...

I like Singleton at Nickel
 
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Our DL should be pretty deep. McDougle, Rodgers, and Oguayo are a solid first wave with Zeus, Misi Pei, Block, Hobbes, Crowder and Brennan Jackson backing them up. I also hear RJ Stone is a beast.

Rush is fine with Willie Taylor and Dom Silvels.

I don't understand the concern over the linebacker position. Jahad Woods is a beast. Dillon Sherman and Justus Rogers have both seen a lot of snaps and are redshirt juniors. Fa'avae Fa'avae, Patrick Nunn, Kedron Williams, and Halid Djibril are all possibilities for depth and we have three talented true freshman pushing for playing time as well.

We have plenty of talent at safety with Thompson and Thomas. Beekman, Singleton and Ross provide good depth. The excess safety and LB depth should fit in nicely at nickle.

Marcus Strong impressed me down the stretch. If he takes another leap forward, he might be a pretty good corner when all is said and done. George Hicks is progressing nicely. Add in all the JC corners and we should be good here as well.

I expect the DL to be much more disruptive which will lead to a lot more interceptions.
 
I think we will be just fine, the thing I am watching most next year is our cornerback play.

We struggled all year in man press. That gets fixed and I think it will be as good if not better.

The two things that are important to see develop are

QB replacement
CB play

those are the real question marks next year.
 
kougkurt said:
I like Singleton at Nickel
Click to expand...

Ross and Djibril look like the real deal, assuming they're both at nickel. It's going to be interesting to see where Ronald Nunn lines up. At 6-4, I guess he's pretty athletic.
But the success of the back seven is forever tied to the boys up front, and McDougle is no boy. The guy is a force. From what Nick Sheetz said about his visit, all the d-linemen are tearing it up in the weight room, so McDougle will appear to have a lot of help.
 
Just some defensive musing since you brought up this topic...

Adding McDougal over the center means that the MLB does not have to be quite as physically large, I suspect. Pelleur had to stand up to some O linemen with good momentum pretty regularly; probably more often than would have been necessary if he had a big DT in front of him. If that is true, a somewhat quicker guy at MLB this year has some benefit, both against run and pass. Looking at it that way, against the run the addition of McDougal on the line is in some ways a trade for Pelleur at MLB, while against the pass we will probably have a slightly quicker MLB this year. On the balance, I like that trade. McDougal showed at WV that he was an asset in the pass rush. Add some edge speed and our rush should be as good as last year, and I expect that we will be better against the run.

I never picked on specific D backs last season because they all had several pretty good games. I think it was fair to point out that some were more inconsistent than others, and in a 40 yard dash there were definitely some who would be faster than others. The slower ones seemed to do the most that they could with good footwork, and that helped. Sometimes it looked like it helped a lot; other times we are back to discussing inconsistency. This year we have some returning guys who turned in at least some good performances, and a pile of new guys who are all there for spring ball. On balance, it is hard to see our D backs playing at a lower level than last year, and if one or two of the transfers turns out to be ready to play, we might be better. Even if we are a push, that is still pretty good.

I think we also have to look at the PAC as a whole. SC is moving to Air Raid, apparently; Chip will have UCLA moving toward his old Oregon offense if he can find suitable QB's; and Oregon is trying to resuscitate their version of a spread. Cal is making changes on offense, though I'm not sure how that is going to look. Other than Utah and Stanford, wide open and fast seems to be the thrust over big and smash mouth. UW may have to try to make big and smash mouth work, as well, if the QB shuffle doesn't lend itself well to a spread...that remains to be seen, one way or the other. Long story short, looking at our league games on balance we will probably benefit from having a quicker MLB and an injection of new DB's, so long as we don't lose anything in the pass rush department.

All the above assumes McDougal does for us what he did for WV and assumes that we have at least 5 and preferably 6 DB's who are PAC worthy and available when Claeys decides to drop a nickel or dime. At this point those look like reasonable assumptions. Spring ball will tell more.

Final thought: if our D is better than last year overall, our goal should be the Rose Bowl.
 
Oregon is trying to resuscitate their version of a spread.

I thought they were going to more of a smash-mouth running game?
 
I agree with a lot of the above, but will add a couple points -

I still don't see that we have a DB who is going to match up well with a tall, big, and/or physical receiver. Shenault from Colorado, MItchell at UO, and Hodgin at OSU are some that concern me...plus the big TE at UCLA. We haven't covered TEs well in several years. We can't count on all of the JC transfers panning out, and even if 1-2 of them do, I see depth concerns in the secondary.

Some of that will be alleviated by improvements on the DL. If McDougal and the others can get some pressure on the QB, it'll take pressure off of the secondary.

I'm not too concerned about LB, we've got a lot of bodies there who have snaps under their belt. Woods filled in well after Pelleur went down in 2017, so I think he steps into that role. Maybe not quite the leader Pelleur was, but not many get 6 years to develop. Silvels and Taylor looked solid off the bench, so we just need them to deliver on more snaps.

Offense still should move the ball, we have an insanely deep WR corps. OL shouldn't lose much ground...although I really hope they get better at run blocking. The loss of Williams in the backfield is a concern, and we really need another body in the backfield to take load off of Borghi, unless we're just going to go 5 wide for half the season (which wouldn't surprise me much, with Leach on the sideline). But, I think we can move a body from somewhere else - maybe one of the reserve WRs - that can be a serviceable backup RB.

I don't think our secondary was particularly good last season. They definitely had weaknesses and some significant lapses. A few games should have been blowouts (Oregon, Oregon State), a couple shouldn't have been as close as they were (Cal, Stanford, Iowa State), and they had a hand in both losses (more USC than UW). But we still won 11 games with them. A relatively small improvement in the secondary means at least 1 more win. Improvements in the secondary and the DL mean 2 more, if the O can stay even.

I wouldn't call our schedule tough exactly, but I don't really like the way it stacks up. I see a fair chance of starting 5-0, but we fairly frequently fall flat in Tempe. And I'm not comfortable putting any of our last 5 (@Oregon, @Cal, Stanford, OSU, @UW) in the "likely victory" category.
 
etowncoug said:
I don't understand the concern over the linebacker position. Jahad Woods is a beast. Dillon Sherman and Justus Rogers have both seen a lot of snaps and are redshirt juniors. Fa'avae Fa'avae, Patrick Nunn, Kedron Williams, and Halid Djibril are all possibilities for depth and we have three talented true freshman pushing for playing time as well.
Click to expand...

Well I base it on this....

Woods was solid last year. "Beast" would be an all conference player IMO. Can he perform at an all conference level his junior year? He's solid, but still under sized. Sherman was a walk on, Rogers hasn't done much. Fa'avae had some nice plays last year in his limited time, he's one of the guys I'm hoping surprises us. The rest you mentioned are all DB's. Can Rocky surprise us as a frosh, he's got the size at 6'2 245? Dubots supposedly has been moved from LB to RB.

I think we will be serviceable at LB, and as I said, having a better DL will help them and the secondary overall. We have been thin at LB for quite a few years now, especially LB's on scholarship. We were lucky to have Pelluer last year among that thin group.
 
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froropmkr72 said:
what happened to Christian Mejia and Hendry?
Click to expand...

Both DL, Rush ends on the roster.

Meija was recruited to play that position, and Hendry came in as a very large MLB...Check that, Hendry came in as a DE.

We have a ton of rush ends/rush lb, but very few true LB's.
 
95coug said:
I agree with a lot of the above, but will add a couple points -

I still don't see that we have a DB who is going to match up well with a tall, big, and/or physical receiver. Shenault from Colorado, MItchell at UO, and Hodgin at OSU are some that concern me...plus the big TE at UCLA. We haven't covered TEs well in several years. We can't count on all of the JC transfers panning out, and even if 1-2 of them do, I see depth concerns in the secondary.

Some of that will be alleviated by improvements on the DL. If McDougal and the others can get some pressure on the QB, it'll take pressure off of the secondary.

I'm not too concerned about LB, we've got a lot of bodies there who have snaps under their belt. Woods filled in well after Pelleur went down in 2017, so I think he steps into that role. Maybe not quite the leader Pelleur was, but not many get 6 years to develop. Silvels and Taylor looked solid off the bench, so we just need them to deliver on more snaps.

Offense still should move the ball, we have an insanely deep WR corps. OL shouldn't lose much ground...although I really hope they get better at run blocking. The loss of Williams in the backfield is a concern, and we really need another body in the backfield to take load off of Borghi, unless we're just going to go 5 wide for half the season (which wouldn't surprise me much, with Leach on the sideline). But, I think we can move a body from somewhere else - maybe one of the reserve WRs - that can be a serviceable backup RB.

I don't think our secondary was particularly good last season. They definitely had weaknesses and some significant lapses. A few games should have been blowouts (Oregon, Oregon State), a couple shouldn't have been as close as they were (Cal, Stanford, Iowa State), and they had a hand in both losses (more USC than UW). But we still won 11 games with them. A relatively small improvement in the secondary means at least 1 more win. Improvements in the secondary and the DL mean 2 more, if the O can stay even.

I wouldn't call our schedule tough exactly, but I don't really like the way it stacks up. I see a fair chance of starting 5-0, but we fairly frequently fall flat in Tempe. And I'm not comfortable putting any of our last 5 (@Oregon, @Cal, Stanford, OSU, @UW) in the "likely victory" category.
Click to expand...

Langford is the CB you’re lookinf for.
 
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Here's the early spring enrollees with their updated measurements and photos. The rest of the roster has not had their height/weight updated yet.
 
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Woods Bio on the WSU site:

RS-SOPHOMORE (2018): Named All-Pac-12 Conference honorable mention...started all 13 games at WIL linebacker...second on team with 82 tackles...led team with four forced fumbles...recorded 4.5 tackles-for-loss including three sacks...recovered two fumbles and picked off one pass...made six tackles including one sack against San Jose State...made five tackles, shared a sack and picked off a pass against Eastern Washington...recorded egith tackles and shared a sack against Utah...made nine tackles including one for loss at Oregon State...recorded a sack against Oregon...had six tackles a forced fumble at Stanford...made eight tackles against California...made five tackles, forced two fumbles and recovered one at Colorado...named Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Week after making career high 11 tackles wiht one forced fumble and one fumble recovery against Arizona...made five tackles against Washington...made tackles in win over Iowa State at Alamo Bowl.

Sorry if this doesn't meet your definition of beast.
 
acgcoug said:
Well I base it on this....

Woods was solid last year. "Beast" would be an all conference player IMO. Can he perform at an all conference level his junior year? He's solid, but still under sized. Sherman was a walk on, Rogers hasn't done much. Fa'avae had some nice plays last year in his limited time, he's one of the guys I'm hoping surprises us. The rest you mentioned are all DB's. Can Rocky surprise us as a frosh, he's got the size at 6'2 245? Dubots supposedly has been moved from LB to RB.

I think we will be serviceable at LB, and as I said, having a better DL will help them and the secondary overall. We have been thin at LB for quite a few years now, especially LB's on scholarship. We were lucky to have Pelluer last year among that thin group.
Click to expand...
Yes, Woods was serviceable, but definitely not a standout...I was optimistic about him after his freshman year, but he was stagnant last year. Honestly, we haven't had a standout linebacker since probably Will Derting...Mattingly had one good year, and Long also had a good year his one year playing LB. I would argue we haven't had a guy that can get after guys sideline to sideline since then, and that bums me out--I really enjoyed watching our LBs run guys down: McClanahan, Childs, Fields, Raonall, Derting, Gleason, Darling, Chris Hayes...all those guys ran like deer and hit like trucks. I just haven't seen an LB of their quality on our roster for years.
 
acgcoug said:
Well I base it on this....

Woods was solid last year. "Beast" would be an all conference player IMO. Can he perform at an all conference level his junior year? He's solid, but still under sized. Sherman was a walk on, Rogers hasn't done much. Fa'avae had some nice plays last year in his limited time, he's one of the guys I'm hoping surprises us. The rest you mentioned are all DB's. Can Rocky surprise us as a frosh, he's got the size at 6'2 245? Dubots supposedly has been moved from LB to RB.

I think we will be serviceable at LB, and as I said, having a better DL will help them and the secondary overall. We have been thin at LB for quite a few years now, especially LB's on scholarship. We were lucky to have Pelluer last year among that thin group.
Click to expand...
Rogers had 47 tackles with 6.5 for loss, including three sacks as a rs freshman. He certainly has done more than Fa'avae with his six tackles with 2.5 sacks as a rs freshman.

Sure, Rogers didn't have quite the same numbers last year because he was behind Pelleur. I think he will be fine this year, plus he is bigger than Fa'avae.
 
Coug1990 said:
Rogers had 47 tackles with 6.5 for loss, including three sacks as a rs freshman. He certainly has done more than Fa'avae with his six tackles with 2.5 sacks as a rs freshman.

Sure, Rogers didn't have quite the same numbers last year because he was behind Pelleur. I think he will be fine this year, plus he is bigger than Fa'avae.
Click to expand...
Fa'avae was behind Pelluer last year as well though so not as many rep opportunities as Rogers his rFr year. It seemed Fa'avae might have pulled past Rogers last year but hard to tell.
 
How_did_this_happen? said:
Case for:
-Loss of a certain picked on corner back who shall not be singled out by name :D
-McDougal is a beast/a difference maker
-Returning starters (at LB and safety in particular)
-New CB recruits from JCs
-Claeys is back

Case against:
-Loss of Pelluer (big loss) and Tago (another big loss)
-Loss of Harper, Comfort, and Dale

What do you all think? What did I miss?

Overall, I think we should be better. How much? Not sure, but incrementally better (not necessarily a step function better) is really all we need.

https://wsucougars.com/roster.aspx?roster=1158&path=football
Click to expand...
You're leaving out the further maturation of Rogers, Pei, Crowder, and Hobbs. I think that will make us stouter up front, plus Claeys might get more aggressive with his safeties if he can find 2 or 3 corners that can play man worth a damn. Pelluer, Tago, Dale, Harper, and Comfort are all players I'd love to have back, and if they were all returning we'd be talking about a level of D we haven't seen in 15 years. But we will be stouter, and that alone should improve a D that was already pretty good. The replacements for Pelluer and Dale will determine how good we can be.
 
etowncoug said:
Woods Bio on the WSU site:

RS-SOPHOMORE (2018): Named All-Pac-12 Conference honorable mention...started all 13 games at WIL linebacker...second on team with 82 tackles...led team with four forced fumbles...recorded 4.5 tackles-for-loss including three sacks...recovered two fumbles and picked off one pass...made six tackles including one sack against San Jose State...made five tackles, shared a sack and picked off a pass against Eastern Washington...recorded egith tackles and shared a sack against Utah...made nine tackles including one for loss at Oregon State...recorded a sack against Oregon...had six tackles a forced fumble at Stanford...made eight tackles against California...made five tackles, forced two fumbles and recovered one at Colorado...named Pac-12 Defensive Player of the Week after making career high 11 tackles wiht one forced fumble and one fumble recovery against Arizona...made five tackles against Washington...made tackles in win over Iowa State at Alamo Bowl.

Sorry if this doesn't meet your definition of beast.
Click to expand...

Bump posting this again, as some are either not seeing it, not reading it, ignoring it, not understanding, comprehending it, not getting it, and thus keep on saying that supposedly Woods was not a BEAST when he was.

That or they are DUG in, STUBBORN.

Also Woods, if Woods hadnt had to plau with, compete with Pelleur taking some of his thunder, stats, these already BEASTLY stats, would have been even more BEASTLY.

Woods without Pelleur, will put up a MONSTER BEASTLY season. He will be the new Pelleur, leader, producer, etc, leader in every way of the defense.

The Defense belongs to Woods now.

Or it will belong to Woods.
 
mikalalas said:
Bump posting this again, as some are either not seeing it, not reading it, ignoring it, not understanding, comprehending it, not getting it, and thus keep on saying that supposedly Woods was not a BEAST when he was.

That or they are DUG in, STUBBORN.

Also Woods, if Woods hadnt had to plau with, compete with Pelleur taking some of his thunder, stats, these already BEASTLY stats, would have been even more BEASTLY.

Woods without Pelleur, will put up a MONSTER BEASTLY season. He will be the new Pelleur, leader, producer, etc, leader in every way of the defense.

The Defense belongs to Woods now.

Or it will belong to Woods.
Click to expand...
You are the guy who said Harrington was going to keep James Williams on the bench, so your football acumen was questionable, and now there are no doubts.

You want beastly stats? Derting was putting up Woods season Sacks and INT totals in INDIVIDUAL GAMES.

https://wsucougars.com/news/2013/4/18/208261049.aspx
 
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fingerdisco said:
You are the guy who said Harrington was going to keep James Williams on the bench, so your football acumen was questionable, and now there are no doubts.

You want beastly stats? Derting was putting up Woods season Sacks and INT totals in INDIVIDUAL GAMES.

https://wsucougars.com/news/2013/4/18/208261049.aspx
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Derting was a sledgehammer as an OLB. One of our best. With his move to MLB, and the accumulation of injuries, he faded a bit as a junior & senior. He was still solid, and still deserves a mention in the conversation about best Coug LBs, but he’s top 10, not top 5.
 
95coug said:
Derting was a sledgehammer as an OLB. One of our best. With his move to MLB, and the accumulation of injuries, he faded a bit as a junior & senior. He was still solid, and still deserves a mention in the conversation about best Coug LBs, but he’s top 10, not top 5.
Click to expand...
I haven't really thought about it much, but now that you mention it, who would you put above him in your top 5? Without a doubt Mark Fields goes number 1, I'd put Raonall Smith 2, then 3 through 5 gets a bit foggy--guys that would be in the mix are who I mentioned above (with the glaring omission of Lewis Bush): Gleason, Darling, Childs, Derting are fighting for one of those top 3, and I think Derting deserves to be in there when you look at what he did in the amount of time he had given his injury situation.
 
mikalalas said:
Bump posting this again, as some are either not seeing it, not reading it, ignoring it, not understanding, comprehending it, not getting it, and thus keep on saying that supposedly Woods was not a BEAST when he was.

That or they are DUG in, STUBBORN.

Also Woods, if Woods hadnt had to plau with, compete with Pelleur taking some of his thunder, stats, these already BEASTLY stats, would have been even more BEASTLY.

Woods without Pelleur, will put up a MONSTER BEASTLY season. He will be the new Pelleur, leader, producer, etc, leader in every way of the defense.

The Defense belongs to Woods now.

Or it will belong to Woods.
Click to expand...
I could easily see Woods putting up Derting's best numbers. Woods had 11 tfl before assuming a slightly different role under a new system. 90 tackles, 11 tfl, 3 sacks, 4 ff, 3 qbh's. There's a reason he was so close to Pelluer and Minshew...he's the successor on defense and a model of how to be coachable. Don't know how many times I said "damn he's good" throughout the season.
 
fingerdisco said:
I haven't really thought about it much, but now that you mention it, who would you put above him in your top 5? Without a doubt Mark Fields goes number 1, I'd put Raonall Smith 2, then 3 through 5 gets a bit foggy--guys that would be in the mix are who I mentioned above (with the glaring omission of Lewis Bush): Gleason, Darling, Childs, Derting are fighting for one of those top 3, and I think Derting deserves to be in there when you look at what he did in the amount of time he had given his injury situation.
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Fields, no doubt. Followed by, in a debatable order: Blakeney, McClanahan, Childs, Bush, Smith, Darling.

In my mind, Derting comes all by himself behind that group. Kind of in a “what could have been” position. There’s a bunch more guys behind him that were either on crap teams (Greg Trent), only had 1-2 good seasons (Dan Grayson, Mawuli Davis), or were good but overshadowed by someone next to them (Scott Davis, Steve Gleason).

I’ve seen lots of rankings that put Derting in our top 3 all time, based on what he showed his first two seasons. Looking at his whole career though, I put a few more guys ahead of him.
 
95coug said:
Fields, no doubt. Followed by, in a debatable order: Blakeney, McClanahan, Childs, Bush, Smith, Darling.

In my mind, Derting comes all by himself behind that group. Kind of in a “what could have been” position. There’s a bunch more guys behind him that were either on crap teams (Greg Trent), only had 1-2 good seasons (Dan Grayson, Mawuli Davis), or were good but overshadowed by someone next to them (Scott Davis, Steve Gleason).

I’ve seen lots of rankings that put Derting in our top 3 all time, based on what he showed his first two seasons. Looking at his whole career though, I put a few more guys ahead of him.
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Zeus in top 5 eh? I guess that's really pushing the limits of my memory--loved the guy, loved his enthusiasm (shooting imaginary ducks after a big play is something I'll always remember him for)--I might be completely wrong here--but I remember him being really streaky, a big game followed by a ho-hum game? Blakeney is before my time of following the team closely, so can't comment there. I consisered Lewis Bush, but he played DL for 3-4 out of 4 seasons, didn't he? I guess I just don't remember him much for his LB play. As for Derting, in spite of his injury issue, he was just an animal when healthy and took over games (funnest game I've every watched was the Holiday Bowl when he--along with some stellar DE play--basically ran Vince Young off the field). Outside of that, our list is pretty similar.
 
95coug said:
Derting was a sledgehammer as an OLB. One of our best. With his move to MLB, and the accumulation of injuries, he faded a bit as a junior & senior. He was still solid, and still deserves a mention in the conversation about best Coug LBs, but he’s top 10, not top 5.
Click to expand...

The graduation of Williams, Tupai, Brown and Acholonu had something to do with it too.
 
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fingerdisco said:
Zeus in top 5 eh? I guess that's really pushing the limits of my memory--loved the guy, loved his enthusiasm (shooting imaginary ducks after a big play is something I'll always remember him for)--I might be completely wrong here--but I remember him being really streaky, a big game followed by a ho-hum game? Blakeney is before my time of following the team closely, so can't comment there. I consisered Lewis Bush, but he played DL for 3-4 out of 4 seasons, didn't he? I guess I just don't remember him much for his LB play. As for Derting, in spite of his injury issue, he was just an animal when healthy and took over games (funnest game I've every watched was the Holiday Bowl when he--along with some stellar DE play--basically ran Vince Young off the field). Outside of that, our list is pretty similar.
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Completely separate note, f.d.. Found the gif you got your avatar from... That's some creepy $h!t, right there.
EDIT: AND oddly, found it on my iPhone searching "ugly girls" gifs... and THAT popped up. lol.
 
Coug95man2 said:
Completely separate note, f.d.. Found the gif you got your avatar from... That's some creepy $h!t, right there.
EDIT: AND oddly, found it on my iPhone searching "ugly girls" gifs... and THAT popped up. lol.
Click to expand...
Creepy is good--thought maybe it would scare Sponge away...I think it worked.
 
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95coug said:
Fields, no doubt. Followed by, in a debatable order: Blakeney, McClanahan, Childs, Bush, Smith, Darling.

In my mind, Derting comes all by himself behind that group. Kind of in a “what could have been” position. There’s a bunch more guys behind him that were either on crap teams (Greg Trent), only had 1-2 good seasons (Dan Grayson, Mawuli Davis), or were good but overshadowed by someone next to them (Scott Davis, Steve Gleason).

I’ve seen lots of rankings that put Derting in our top 3 all time, based on what he showed his first two seasons. Looking at his whole career though, I put a few more guys ahead of him.
Click to expand...
Brian Forde’s in there somewhere.
 
SaveFerris said:
Brian Forde’s in there somewhere.
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How did I forget Forde?

I’m a little torn on where to put him. He kind of fits with Greg Trent in that his teams weren’t very good. If he’d had 3-4 seasons I don’t think there’s any question he’d be top 5.
 
fingerdisco said:
Zeus in top 5 eh? I guess that's really pushing the limits of my memory--loved the guy, loved his enthusiasm (shooting imaginary ducks after a big play is something I'll always remember him for)--I might be completely wrong here--but I remember him being really streaky, a big game followed by a ho-hum game? Blakeney is before my time of following the team closely, so can't comment there. I consisered Lewis Bush, but he played DL for 3-4 out of 4 seasons, didn't he? I guess I just don't remember him much for his LB play. As for Derting, in spite of his injury issue, he was just an animal when healthy and took over games (funnest game I've every watched was the Holiday Bowl when he--along with some stellar DE play--basically ran Vince Young off the field). Outside of that, our list is pretty similar.
Click to expand...
Holiday bowl was great, but the first half at Notre Dame was probably the most dominating performance I’ve ever seen from a Coug D. Too bad Doba & Co squandered it by taking their foot off the gas in the 2nd half.
 
I started paying attention to WSU football in 1968 and didn't get serious about it until 1970, so I don't include anyone prior to that. Some of these guys played more than one position during their careers. Some played for one year, some for several. Some were the bell cow on teams that were not blessed with a lot of other great D players, others were part of groups that made everyone look good. And my numbers 3-7 are so close that you could reorder those 5 guys in almost any order you chose. That said, here is my LB top 11 (I could come up with 11 worth mentioning), in order:

1.) Fields
small drop to
2.) Blakeney
smaller drop to
3.) Darling
4.) Childs
5.) Forde
6.) Bush
7.) McLanahan
small drop to
8.) Smith
And then 3 guys who for me are pretty much a coin toss; different eras but similar contributions:
9.) Derting
10.) Gary Larsen
11.) Scott Pelluer

I would suggest that any of the group noted above could contend for a starting position today.
 
cr8zyncalif said:
I started paying attention to WSU football in 1968 and didn't get serious about it until 1970, so I don't include anyone prior to that. Some of these guys played more than one position during their careers. Some played for one year, some for several. Some were the bell cow on teams that were not blessed with a lot of other great D players, others were part of groups that made everyone look good. And my numbers 3-7 are so close that you could reorder those 5 guys in almost any order you chose. That said, here is my LB top 11 (I could come up with 11 worth mentioning), in order:

1.) Fields
small drop to
2.) Blakeney
smaller drop to
3.) Darling
4.) Childs
5.) Forde
6.) Bush
7.) McLanahan
small drop to
8.) Smith
And then 3 guys who for me are pretty much a coin toss; different eras but similar contributions:
9.) Derting
10.) Gary Larsen
11.) Scott Pelluer

I would suggest that any of the group noted above could contend for a starting position today.
Click to expand...
No Gleason?
 
cr8zyncalif said:
I started paying attention to WSU football in 1968 and didn't get serious about it until 1970, so I don't include anyone prior to that. Some of these guys played more than one position during their careers. Some played for one year, some for several. Some were the bell cow on teams that were not blessed with a lot of other great D players, others were part of groups that made everyone look good. And my numbers 3-7 are so close that you could reorder those 5 guys in almost any order you chose. That said, here is my LB top 11 (I could come up with 11 worth mentioning), in order:

1.) Fields
small drop to
2.) Blakeney
smaller drop to
3.) Darling
4.) Childs
5.) Forde
6.) Bush
7.) McLanahan
small drop to
8.) Smith
And then 3 guys who for me are pretty much a coin toss; different eras but similar contributions:
9.) Derting
10.) Gary Larsen
11.) Scott Pelluer

I would suggest that any of the group noted above could contend for a starting position today.
Click to expand...
I can't argue with any of your list, and I think the top 2 are pretty solid. We've got pretty much the same names 3-8, and I won't even try to sort them. I'd probably change the order every time I looked. And I think the whole list - and a couple others - would be day 1 starters today.

I think Jahad Woods has the potential to get his name into the mix, but he's not there yet. One thing might keep him off: most of the names on the list played with at least one of the others. Most also had at least one very talented DL in front of them. So far, Woods doesn't have either.
 
95coug said:
I can't argue with any of your list, and I think the top 2 are pretty solid. We've got pretty much the same names 3-8, and I won't even try to sort them. I'd probably change the order every time I looked. And I think the whole list - and a couple others - would be day 1 starters today.

I think Jahad Woods has the potential to get his name into the mix, but he's not there yet. One thing might keep him off: most of the names on the list played with at least one of the others. Most also had at least one very talented DL in front of them. So far, Woods doesn't have either.
Click to expand...

Agree, good list. If not for injuries, IMO Derting is in the top 5.

COUGinNCW said:
No Gleason?
Click to expand...

I wouldn't put him in that list, but just outside of it. In fact, I think Woods has the potential to become on the same level as Gleason, or possibly a bit better. Similar size, speed, and tons of heart/effort.
 
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