Two Cougars players to sit during national anthem

[CougPatrol]

I'm mixed on the anthem issue. I absolutely agree that the magnitude of the issue in terms of the coverage it receives is absurd. I don't personally care whether people stand or sit, but I do think it's important to be quiet and respectful.

My other take on this has to do with how and why the tradition of standing and removing your caps during the anthem came to be. For me, and this is what I tell my boys, the American flag and National Anthem is something that bonds every American citizen. Whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheist's, Men, and Women have all died fighting for our America.

The Anthem is a 1-2 minute song where we can all come together as a family and recognize how far we've come as a Nation. To acknowledge that we still have a long way to go, but that we can't ever forget the millions of people who have died to provide us with the chance to continually improve things. I think most every minority group (apart from Native Americans, maybe) would agree that the we've made incredible progress over the past 250, 150, 100, 50, even 20 years. We've had an African American President, Gay and Lesbian rights continue to be expanded, Women's rights have exploded over the past 50 years. America isn't perfect, but top to bottom, we're still the greatest Nation in the world. So everyone....stand up, put down your protesting for a minute or two, and salute the progress we've made and will continue to make. That's my .02c.

 

[CougEd]

First, I never said that was the best option. I actually said there are many options. You refused to look beyond the simplistic so I offered the immediate options that came to mind. BUT... You don't think holding a sign (STILL... not saying that's the best option) wouldn't get a little TV time? Pulease.

Especially if he frames his discontent with, "I have nothing against how others express themselves but I thought this would be a great way for people to be able to come up to me, have conversation, debate and learn first hand how I feel and why I'm doing this. Others have decided to take a knee or sit during the anthem and I respect all of them. I felt this way is still a way to get the message out there and in my personal view, be respectful." TV would EAT. THAT. UP. ESPN would be all over it. Local/regional would be scheduling interviews, etc. A millionaire and lineman from the Seahawks, picketing a Mariners game would be a hell of a story.

PR 101. Bennett has said as much himself. He wishes others would come out. But they don't want the backlash. WELL... do something that won't create backlash and still get the message out. Not rocket science. IMHO, part of this issue is everyone in our world is looking for "shock value". Well, there's downside to that. This is a good example.

My bad, when you said hold a sign you meant inside a game with the cameras on. I misread what that meant.

I am 95% sure that is in the collective bargaining agreement preventing holding a sign of any type. I am pretty sure he would be penalized for conducting such an act.

 

[CougEd]

I'm mixed on the anthem issue. I absolutely agree that the magnitude of the issue in terms of the coverage it receives is absurd. I don't personally care whether people stand or sit, but I do think it's important to be quiet and respectful.

My other take on this has to do with how and why the tradition of standing and removing your caps during the anthem came to be. For me, and this is what I tell my boys, the American flag and National Anthem is something that bonds every American citizen. Whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheist's, Men, and Women have all died fighting for our America.

The Anthem is a 1-2 minute song where we can all come together as a family and recognize how far we've come as a Nation. To acknowledge that we still have a long way to go, but that we can't ever forget the millions of people who have died to provide us with the chance to continually improve things. I think most every minority group (apart from Native Americans, maybe) would agree that the we've made incredible progress over the past 250, 150, 100, 50, even 20 years. We've had an African American President, Gay and Lesbian rights continue to be expanded, Women's rights have exploded over the past 50 years. America isn't perfect, but top to bottom, we're still the greatest Nation in the world. So everyone....stand up, put down your protesting for a minute or two, and salute the progress we've made and will continue to make. That's my .02c.

Patrol...you hit it right on the head as to why Bennett doesn't stand during the anthem. He is saying the symbol in which you feel bonds us together in his world it does not. As one would pledge allegiance to the flag...'one nation, under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all." That is what the flag should represent for people. Bennett doesn't stand because he doesn't see that now represented in the flag.

My guess is Russell Wilson and others probably as you do. That we h come a long way, hat we have made progress. Bennett and Kapernick probably seeing it slipping away.

 

[Wasichus]

America hater!

That's 'Murica hater...ya commie......

 

[CougPatrol]

My guess is Russell Wilson and others probably as you do. That we h come a long way, hat we have made progress. Bennett and Kapernick probably seeing it slipping away.

I don't agree with anything Bennett, Kap, Baldwin, and most of the mainstream media have to say. Trump has sent knee-jerk panic reverberating throughout our Nation, and the media is capitalizing on it. They have the right to their opinions, but I don't share them.

Historical progress is measured over decades. Neo-nazi's, KKK'ers....really? Does anyone really think THAT movement is going take hold? Good God, let them march. Look at them. Listen to them.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

This guy may have been the most rational fan in the Clink if it was at the game that I am thinking of. We were getting our asses kicked in a driving rain. A game without any redeeming value. Get hammered and eat popcorn was one of the few remaining options. He made a statement that any true Coug would understand and support.

I hate the idea of "Popcorn guy." There, I said it. Sorry not sorry. I don't see the humor in it.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Way to oversell your idea. ESPN would NOT eat that up. If anything, it might make the front page of the Times for like a day. Sitting for the anthem is a lead story for months.

ESPN has been serving up s*** on a platter in terms of programming for years. They'd eat up anything "controversial." It's TMZ Sports for the most part. Gone are the days of actual, legit SportsCenter (though SVP is trying, which I 100% appreciate. Stan and Neil run a good show, too). It's all about ratings now.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

I don't agree with anything Bennett, Kap, Baldwin, and most of the mainstream media have to say. Trump has sent knee-jerk panic reverberating throughout our Nation, and the media is capitalizing on it. They have the right to their opinions, but I don't share them.

Historical progress is measured over decades. Neo-nazi's, KKK'ers....really? Does anyone really think THAT movement is going take hold? Good God, let them march. Look at them. Listen to them.

Look, just admit that this country is a gigantic sh!t hole filled with racists, fascists, and right-wing hate groups. If you can't admit that, you are obviously one of them and support their cause.

 

[CougPatrol]

Look, just admit that this country is a gigantic sh!t hole filled with racists, fascists, and right-wing hate groups. If you can't admit that, you are obviously one of them and support their cause.

Agree that there are way too many racist pigs here, but I don't think this country is a shit hole. Sorry you do.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Agree that there are way too many racist pigs here, but I don't think this country is a shit hole. Sorry you do.

whoosh

 

[dgibbons]

Look, just admit that this country is a gigantic sh!t hole filled with racists, fascists, and right-wing hate groups. If you can't admit that, you are obviously one of them and support their cause.

The solution is to give straight As to any college student protesting about anything.

See how easy that was.

 

[SaveFerris]

I'm mixed on the anthem issue. I absolutely agree that the magnitude of the issue in terms of the coverage it receives is absurd. I don't personally care whether people stand or sit, but I do think it's important to be quiet and respectful.

My other take on this has to do with how and why the tradition of standing and removing your caps during the anthem came to be. For me, and this is what I tell my boys, the American flag and National Anthem is something that bonds every American citizen. Whites, blacks, Asians, Hispanics, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Atheist's, Men, and Women have all died fighting for our America.

The Anthem is a 1-2 minute song where we can all come together as a family and recognize how far we've come as a Nation. To acknowledge that we still have a long way to go, but that we can't ever forget the millions of people who have died to provide us with the chance to continually improve things. I think most every minority group (apart from Native Americans, maybe) would agree that the we've made incredible progress over the past 250, 150, 100, 50, even 20 years. We've had an African American President, Gay and Lesbian rights continue to be expanded, Women's rights have exploded over the past 50 years. America isn't perfect, but top to bottom, we're still the greatest Nation in the world. So everyone....stand up, put down your protesting for a minute or two, and salute the progress we've made and will continue to make. That's my .02c.

Just my opinion but there is nothing wrong with a silent and peaceful protest during the National Anthem. In fact in at least an indirect way it honors the men and women who fought and died to protect our rights. The fact is "your and my America" is likely vastly different than it is for many others who have their rights stripped away from them on a daily basis. I'm not sure how that can possibly honor those who fought and died "fighting for our America".

 

[longtimecoug]

I don't agree with anything Bennett, Kap, Baldwin, and most of the mainstream media have to say. Trump has sent knee-jerk panic reverberating throughout our Nation, and the media is capitalizing on it. They have the right to their opinions, but I don't share them.

Historical progress is measured over decades. Neo-nazi's, KKK'ers....really? Does anyone really think THAT movement is going take hold? Good God, let them march. Look at them. Listen to them.

"that" movement has taken hold before, vigilance is required to keep it from doing so again

 

[Coug1990]

I respect everyone's right to speech/protest. However, we also have to show respect to our service men/women who have fought for these rights. When you sit for the anthem to me that is disrespectful to those who have lost their lives and those that are still fighting for our freedom. When Malcom Jenkins of Phil Eagles, stood and raised his arm, I can abide by his actions as he stood for the anthem and he also made his statement.

Sports is not a 12 month ordeal. If a sports personality person feels outraged by what has happened during their off season they should get organized and start dialogue within the communities. Do not tweet and do nothing. What ever happened to communicating with each other in this country? Twitter, text, etc
has taken over our values of common core debate.

I personally have thought that the flag represents so much more than just the military aspect. The flag represents all of us and our county. Those who have served, served so people can protest.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I don't agree with anything Bennett, Kap, Baldwin, and most of the mainstream media have to say. Trump has sent knee-jerk panic reverberating throughout our Nation, and the media is capitalizing on it. They have the right to their opinions, but I don't share them.

Historical progress is measured over decades. Neo-nazi's, KKK'ers....really? Does anyone really think THAT movement is going take hold? Good God, let them march. Look at them. Listen to them.

The problem with letting the alt-right march without resistance is that too many disenfranchised people are willing to listen. There are millions of white people who aren't living the "American Dream". The alt-right groups are a tempting choice for those people to embrace. According to the alt-right, it's not their fault that they aren't wealthy. It's not the massive companies that are embracing automation and putting people out of work to maximize profits. It's not the rich white dudes moving jobs to other countries that are part of the problem. According to the propaganda, if fags, black people, jews, mexicans and muslims weren't destroying our country and its values.....they'd be rich! All of us know that people don't want to take personal accountability so finding a villain is always a popular choice.

There are a lot of reasons that people are struggling in our country and there is plenty of blame to go around, but that doesn't mean that we should ever pretend that letting Nazi sympathizers and white supremacists deserve anything but contempt, humiliation and punishment. Subjugating and murdering people because of their skin color or personal lifestyle is a despicable way to go through life. Anyone marching in Charlottesville with the Nazi supporters has some 'splaining to do.

 

[dgibbons]

The problem with letting the alt-right march without resistance is that too many disenfranchised people are willing to listen. There are millions of white people who aren't living the "American Dream". The alt-right groups are a tempting choice for those people to embrace. According to the alt-right, it's not their fault that they aren't wealthy. It's not the massive companies that are embracing automation and putting people out of work to maximize profits. It's not the rich white dudes moving jobs to other countries that are part of the problem. According to the propaganda, if fags, black people, jews, mexicans and muslims weren't destroying our country and its values.....they'd be rich! All of us know that people don't want to take personal accountability so finding a villain is always a popular choice.

There are a lot of reasons that people are struggling in our country and there is plenty of blame to go around, but that doesn't mean that we should ever pretend that letting Nazi sympathizers and white supremacists deserve anything but contempt, humiliation and punishment. Subjugating and murdering people because of their skin color or personal lifestyle is a despicable way to go through life. Anyone marching in Charlottesville with the Nazi supporters has some 'splaining to do.

I disagree. Let them have their freedom of speech. Let them march down streets that are empty. Tell the media that you won't watch/read their coverage and won't buy their advertisers' products if they do. Let google and godaddy terminate their internet access. Take away what they need and want-attention.

I don't really want hear any explanations for way anyone was marching in Charlottesville.

 

[kayak15]

Let them march. Let them exercise their freedom of speech. Just don't ignore them. Confront them but do so intellectually. We're not talking about a bunch of whiz kids here. The mistake that the intifa group makes is that they get suckered into playing the white loonies at their own game, violence. These guys are a band of intellectually limited or mentally lazy losers. Shine a spotlight on them and expose them for what they are. Ridicule will work against them much more successfully than physicality or screaming.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I'll go one further, I bet anyone watching the game on DVR fast forwards right through the anthem. I know I usually do. Is that disrespectful?

The whole NFL "I am going to sit during the anthem to get media attention" is absurd.

We can pick out numerous hypocrisies in life (and let's be honest, the list is long), but that one ranks near the top.

Ideally, every 18 year old goes to live in another country for 6 months (suggesting Somalia, Guatemala, Nigeria, Cuba, ....) and would come back to the US kissing the ground on arrival. They have no perspective.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The problem with letting the alt-right march without resistance is that too many disenfranchised people are willing to listen. There are millions of white people who aren't living the "American Dream". The alt-right groups are a tempting choice for those people to embrace. According to the alt-right, it's not their fault that they aren't wealthy. It's not the massive companies that are embracing automation and putting people out of work to maximize profits. It's not the rich white dudes moving jobs to other countries that are part of the problem. According to the propaganda, if fags, black people, jews, mexicans and muslims weren't destroying our country and its values.....they'd be rich! All of us know that people don't want to take personal accountability so finding a villain is always a popular choice.

There are a lot of reasons that people are struggling in our country and there is plenty of blame to go around, but that doesn't mean that we should ever pretend that letting Nazi sympathizers and white supremacists deserve anything but contempt, humiliation and punishment. Subjugating and murdering people because of their skin color or personal lifestyle is a despicable way to go through life. Anyone marching in Charlottesville with the Nazi supporters has some 'splaining to do.

I don't recall you going off on the violent leftist groups violently shutting down free speech in numerous cities around the country...

Did i miss something, or is this a case of selective outrage? By the way, I'm not excusing the "alt-right" (of which there may be a few hundred in the entire country) jerks either.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I don't agree with anything Bennett, Kap, Baldwin, and most of the mainstream media have to say. Trump has sent knee-jerk panic reverberating throughout our Nation, and the media is capitalizing on it. They have the right to their opinions, but I don't share them.

Historical progress is measured over decades. Neo-nazi's, KKK'ers....really? Does anyone really think THAT movement is going take hold? Good God, let them march. Look at them. Listen to them.

The media loves to incite a good riot and divisiveness. It's good for ratings.

No mention of antifa Patrol? They are violent leftist jerks who somehow get minimized as a force for hate and anti-free speech.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I don't recall you going off on the violent leftist groups violently shutting down free speech in numerous cities around the country...

Did i miss something, or is this a case of selective outrage? By the way, I'm not excusing the "alt-right" (of which there may be a few hundred in the entire country) jerks either.

I don't know that there has been a discussion on here about the violent left. In my opinion, your political leanings don't matter if your actions are detrimental to others. I've seen numerous left-leaning people that deserve to get arrested and I hope they do. When they assault people, intrude into rooms and spit on people, shout down peaceful discussion and vandalize things, they deserve to get in trouble and many should go to jail. Of course, as with anything, there are shades of gray to any discussion and there is ample reason to disagree with someone on specifics.

I think the quickest answer is that I believe that people should be allowed to do most anything that they want to do, as long as they are respectful of the rights of others to go through their lives peacefully. When people choose to not "live and let live", I think you have to start examining what they are doing and deciding if you should take action.

The alt-right in particular needs to be kept at bay because they, more than any other group, seek to harm others. Don't live in the delusion that there are only a few hundred alt-right supporters in our country. There are hundreds of groups and thousands of followers. On top of that, there are the closet sympathizers that don't have the guts to come out too publicly and don't join groups, but when you talk with them, you see their true character sneaking through the cracks. I work with one guy in particular who goes to church every Sunday, preaches gun rights, is strongly anti-abortion, wants limited government and is your prototype far right person. Anytime a black guy gets killed, his first assumption is, "that N%##$r shouldn't have brought it on himself." Every........single..........time. Anything related to gays, Muslims, or other races is always responded to with a stereotypical response from him. The dude is a racist, misogynistic a-hole who better hope that what he hears about on Sunday isn't going to happen because he has some serious judgement coming. And there are a lot of people like him.

 

[Coug1990]

The media loves to incite a good riot and divisiveness. It's good for ratings.

No mention of antifa Patrol? They are violent leftist jerks who somehow get minimized as a force for hate and anti-free speech.

The marginalization of the media is too easy and frankly a dangerous argument. It is historically what evil regimes have done to exert further control of the population in fascist power grabs.

White supremacists and related hate groups have historically killed people in their violence and hate everyone not white.

Antifa has historically not believed in harming people, but damaging property. They hate fascism. Not a fan of them, but the the two groups are not equivalent.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The problem with letting the alt-right march without resistance is that too many disenfranchised people are willing to listen. There are millions of white people who aren't living the "American Dream". The alt-right groups are a tempting choice for those people to embrace. According to the alt-right, it's not their fault that they aren't wealthy. It's not the massive companies that are embracing automation and putting people out of work to maximize profits. It's not the rich white dudes moving jobs to other countries that are part of the problem. According to the propaganda, if fags, black people, jews, mexicans and muslims weren't destroying our country and its values.....they'd be rich! All of us know that people don't want to take personal accountability so finding a villain is always a popular choice.

There are a lot of reasons that people are struggling in our country and there is plenty of blame to go around, but that doesn't mean that we should ever pretend that letting Nazi sympathizers and white supremacists deserve anything but contempt, humiliation and punishment. Subjugating and murdering people because of their skin color or personal lifestyle is a despicable way to go through life. Anyone marching in Charlottesville with the Nazi supporters has some 'splaining to do.

There aren't enough disenfranchised people with a brain who would join or support these idiots to make a difference.

The disenfranchised voted for Trump - that was their revolt. Between 8 years of being forgotten by the "party of the people/ laborers", lack of housing choices, stagnant wages, etc they voted for "anything other than what we've had", which is what DT billed himself as.

You keep using the royal "they" - do you know any of "them" that are so disenfranchised that they joined the skinheads or neo-nazis? We're talking about a thousand or so people, who've traveled from all over, to join that protest. You've been suckered in by the media into thinking this is a scourge on our nation and its a 5 alarm fire that needs to be addressed, as it threatens our very way of life for all 300 million (probably more now, thanks to immigrations and open borders... ) people in this country.

Its not. Its less than a handful of idiots - dangerous idiots that should be dealt with accordingly (label them a terrorist group, idgaf - but the same goes for ANTIFA and their brethren).

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The marginalization of the media is too easy and frankly a dangerous argument. It is historically what evil regimes have done to exert further control of the population in fascist power grabs.

White supremacists and related hate groups have historically killed people in their violence and hate everyone not white.

Antifa has historically not believed in harming people, but damaging property. They hate fascism. Not a fan of them, but the the two groups are not equivalent.

When the media cannot be trusted to provide unbiased, unslanted news it is deserving of being marginalized. Sensationalism used to be the work space of the NY Post and other such rags; now its the mainstay for all news sources in this country - gotta keep those eyeballs locked on the tv. How do you do that? Propagate fear - its the best seller there is. I was going to list a bunch of stuff, but it's literally endless - just watch the local news and they'll tell you what you need to be afraid of/ what is going to kill you next, and its something new everyweek. Fortunately for them, this incredibly small faction of people are giving them all the material they'll need for the next 6 months at least.

As far as differentiating between Nazis and ANTIFA - anyone in my vicinity that threatens my personal space or my family, whether it be violence against a person or a building - is a terrorist in my book.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

When the media cannot be trusted to provide unbiased, unslanted news it is deserving of being marginalized. Sensationalism used to be the work space of the NY Post and other such rags; now its the mainstay for all news sources in this country - gotta keep those eyeballs locked on the tv. How do you do that? Propagate fear - its the best seller there is. I was going to list a bunch of stuff, but it's literally endless - just watch the local news and they'll tell you what you need to be afraid of/ what is going to kill you next, and its something new everyweek. Fortunately for them, this incredibly small faction of people are giving them all the material they'll need for the next 6 months at least.

As far as differentiating between Nazis and ANTIFA - anyone in my vicinity that threatens my personal space or my family, whether it be violence against a person or a building - is a terrorist in my book.

The "mainstream media" has definitely swung to the left a little further than I'd like. Unfortunately, if you watch Fox News and sites like them, you realize that even if the mainstream media is slanted, it's a paragon of accuracy compared to the drivel on those sites. Therein lies the quandary. Who do you trust? The left leaning mainstream media with an agenda or the right leaning sites that completely abandon any semblance of truth at times?

I had to laugh this weekend when a friend of mine was complaining that the media bashes Trump on everything and that they take any small issue, repeat it ad nauseum and try to inflate everything into a major issue. Of course, he's the same person who wanted to see Obama's birth certificate, bitched incessantly about Clinton's emails and thinks that the Secretary of State is the only person that holds responsibility for the security of embassies. I'm not clearing Clinton of blame, but the hypocrisy of complaining about current media coverage after years of promoting marginal facts is pretty funny.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

The "mainstream media" has definitely swung to the left a little further than I'd like. Unfortunately, if you watch Fox News and sites like them, you realize that even if the mainstream media is slanted, it's a paragon of accuracy compared to the drivel on those sites. Therein lies the quandary. Who do you trust? BBC news, honestly. The brits have no issue making us look like the twats we are, but the past 10 years have shown the UK to have their fair share of scandal, as well as the apathy that goes with it, so the reporting has (imho) gotten softer toward the US. The left leaning mainstream media with an agenda or the right leaning sites that completely abandon any semblance of truth at times?

I had to laugh this weekend when a friend of mine was complaining that the media bashes Trump on everything and that they take any small issue, repeat it ad nauseum and try to inflate everything into a major issue. Of course, he's the same person who wanted to see Obama's birth certificate, bitched incessantly about Clinton's emails and thinks that the Secretary of State is the only person that holds responsibility for the security of embassies. I'm not clearing Clinton of blame, but the hypocrisy of complaining about current media coverage after years of promoting marginal facts is pretty funny.

Who do you trust? BBC news, honestly. The brits have no issue making us look like the twats we are, but the past 10 years have shown the UK to have their fair share of scandal, as well as the apathy that goes with it, so the reporting has (imho) gotten softer toward the US.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The marginalization of the media is too easy and frankly a dangerous argument. It is historically what evil regimes have done to exert further control of the population in fascist power grabs.

White supremacists and related hate groups have historically killed people in their violence and hate everyone not white.

Antifa has historically not believed in harming people, but damaging property. They hate fascism. Not a fan of them, but the the two groups are not equivalent.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

The media has marginalized itself. It needs no help from others. It does this with its lies and its superficiality. I was watching CNN a few weeks ago and they were talking for several minutes about Trump's handshake with Macron for god's sake. This is just one small example of their triviality. The USSR co-opted the media and Pravda et al acted as their official mouthpiece. This is what we have seen with big media and the left. They are one in the same in their messaging. They love the violence and divisions to exploit for more watchers/readers.

White supremacists have murdered in this country, as have leftist and Islamic terrorist groups. BLM has also encouraged the murder of cops (at least 11 dead and 9 more wounded by BLM protestors, activists, and/or supporters).

Antifa is certainly violent against both property and people. They have no problem intimidating those with whom they agree with violence. Given this, I consider them even more dangerous because the media doesn't tell the truth about their nefarious actions.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

I don't know that there has been a discussion on here about the violent left. In my opinion, your political leanings don't matter if your actions are detrimental to others. I've seen numerous left-leaning people that deserve to get arrested and I hope they do. When they assault people, intrude into rooms and spit on people, shout down peaceful discussion and vandalize things, they deserve to get in trouble and many should go to jail. Of course, as with anything, there are shades of gray to any discussion and there is ample reason to disagree with someone on specifics.

I think the quickest answer is that I believe that people should be allowed to do most anything that they want to do, as long as they are respectful of the rights of others to go through their lives peacefully. When people choose to not "live and let live", I think you have to start examining what they are doing and deciding if you should take action.

The alt-right in particular needs to be kept at bay because they, more than any other group, (really?) seek to harm others. Don't live in the delusion that there are only a few hundred alt-right supporters in our country. There are hundreds of groups and thousands of followers. On top of that, there are the closet sympathizers that don't have the guts to come out too publicly and don't join groups, but when you talk with them, you see their true character sneaking through the cracks. I work with one guy in particular who goes to church every Sunday, preaches gun rights, is strongly anti-abortion, wants limited government and is your prototype far right person. Anytime a black guy gets killed, his first assumption is, "that N%##$r shouldn't have brought it on himself." Every........single..........time. Anything related to gays, Muslims, or other races is always responded to with a stereotypical response from him. The dude is a racist, misogynistic a-hole who better hope that what he hears about on Sunday isn't going to happen because he has some serious judgement coming. And there are a lot of people like him.

You need to study the list of the terrorist incidents in the US to gain some perspective. Particularly in the past, say, 30 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

 

[Flatlandcoug]

You need to study the list of the terrorist incidents in the US to gain some perspective. Particularly in the past, say, 30 years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_United_States

I'm not sure if I get your point. According to that page, the vast majority of violence in the past 30 years has been perpetrated by white supremacists, anti-Semites, right wing extremists, anti-abortionists, and Islamic extremists (all groups that tend to be from the right side of the political spectrum). There were only two domestic terrorist attacks in the past 30 years listed for left-wing extremists. Again, I've seen plenty of videos of left-wing loonies that were acting in a manner that deserved a night behind bars, so I'm not pretending that they are blameless when they act that way but your link makes it clear that white supremacists and right wing groups are far more likely to actually harm people.

So again......I'm missing the point.

 

[Coug1990]

We'll have to agree to disagree.

The media has marginalized itself. It needs no help from others. It does this with its lies and its superficiality. I was watching CNN a few weeks ago and they were talking for several minutes about Trump's handshake with Macron for god's sake. This is just one small example of their triviality. The USSR co-opted the media and Pravda et al acted as their official mouthpiece. This is what we have seen with big media and the left. They are one in the same in their messaging. They love the violence and divisions to exploit for more watchers/readers.

White supremacists have murdered in this country, as have leftist and Islamic terrorist groups. BLM has also encouraged the murder of cops (at least 11 dead and 9 more wounded by BLM protestors, activists, and/or supporters).

Antifa is certainly violent against both property and people. They have no problem intimidating those with whom they agree with violence. Given this, I consider them even more dangerous because the media doesn't tell the truth about their nefarious actions.

We will definitely disagree. The media is not perfect, as they tend to be more concerned with access and making money. But, they do a much better job than you believe they do.

BLM has not encouraged violence against cops. Are there fringe members that do encourage violence, sure and those people are thugs. But, that is not what BLM stands for. There is also a reason why BLM arose. There have been many more people of color than 11 and 9 that have been killed and injured.

No, Antifa and the Alt-right are not the same. It is not even close. White supremacists are infinitely more violent against people than Antifa has ever been.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

We will definitely disagree. The media is not perfect, as they tend to be more concerned with access and making money. But, they do a much better job than you believe they do.

BLM has not encouraged violence against cops. Are there fringe members that do encourage violence, sure and those people are thugs. But, that is not what BLM stands for. There is also a reason why BLM arose. There have been many more people of color than 11 and 9 that have been killed and injured.

No, Antifa and the Alt-right are not the same. It is not even close. White supremacists are infinitely more violent against people than Antifa has ever been.

this just in: property damage is a victimless crime, as long as its perpetrated against those evil capitalists/ whities/ anyone who doesn't share their views...

Hope that clears it up, HDTH.

 

[GrayOnGray]

Anyone else see it? No, not an nfl game. No, not the eclipse itself, but did you see and read and hear people from all backgrounds, all political persuasions, all religious and non-religious camps, all coming together yesterday to be civil and engaging and friendly and congenial? All under a sign in the heavens.

 

[Coug95man2]

We will definitely disagree. The media is not perfect, as they tend to be more concerned with access and making money. But, they do a much better job than you believe they do.

BLM has not encouraged violence against cops. Are there fringe members that do encourage violence, sure and those people are thugs. But, that is not what BLM stands for. There is also a reason why BLM arose. There have been many more people of color than 11 and 9 that have been killed and injured.

No, Antifa and the Alt-right are not the same. It is not even close. White supremacists are infinitely more violent against people than Antifa has ever been.

Here's an example, I think each side zigs and zags. I don't know if anyone is saying Antifa is MORE violent against people than skin-heads, per se. That isn't the argument, is it? But one side is looking at the MOTIVATION (hate towards minorities) for the anger, for the destruction while saying the reason for Antifa's hate is "sorta" better because they are raging against the machine (don't think the motivation is as bad) ... The other side is strictly looking at the anger and destruction and pointing towards the fact that hate towards ANYONE is the real problem, regardless of the motivation.

It becomes semantics. Hate is hate, IMHO. Antifa hates certain people. Skin-heads hate certain people. I don't care WHY. IMHO, they are equal because they are using hate, destruction and fear to manipulate. Let them both have a small island and let them fight until no one is left. I'd be OK with that.

EDIT: an employee of mine read what I posted and started laughing. Said the island should be called The Island of Hateful Corpses. He's kinda dark...

 

[CougEd]

Here's an example, I think each side zigs and zags. I don't know if anyone is saying Antifa is MORE violent against people than skin-heads, per se. That isn't the argument, is it? But one side is looking at the MOTIVATION (hate towards minorities) for the anger, for the destruction while saying the reason for Antifa's hate is "sorta" better because they are raging against the machine (don't think the motivation is as bad) ... The other side is strictly looking at the anger and destruction and pointing towards the fact that hate towards ANYONE is the real problem, regardless of the motivation.

It becomes semantics. Hate is hate, IMHO. Antifa hates certain people. Skin-heads hate certain people. I don't care WHY. IMHO, they are equal because they are using hate, destruction and fear to manipulate. Let them both have a small island and let them fight until no one is left. I'd be OK with that.

EDIT: an employee of mine read what I posted and started laughing. Said the island should be called The Island of Hateful Corpses. He's kinda dark...

Well....there is a huge distinction. You can hate and rise

When the media cannot be trusted to provide unbiased, unslanted news it is deserving of being marginalized. Sensationalism used to be the work space of the NY Post and other such rags; now its the mainstay for all news sources in this country - gotta keep those eyeballs locked on the tv. How do you do that? Propagate fear - its the best seller there is. I was going to list a bunch of stuff, but it's literally endless - just watch the local news and they'll tell you what you need to be afraid of/ what is going to kill you next, and its something new everyweek. Fortunately for them, this incredibly small faction of people are giving them all the material they'll need for the next 6 months at least.

As far as differentiating between Nazis and ANTIFA - anyone in my vicinity that threatens my personal space or my family, whether it be violence against a person or a building - is a terrorist in my book.

Your building can be replaced. The people the KKK, the Neo Nazis have killed cant be. Antifa while methods and even ideology may differ from mine, for them to be in the same sentence from those who want to dehumanize or restrict the rights of others because of skin color or ethnicity is simply misguided in my opinion. Hell the "jew" that these folks want to eradicate may be the person who finds a cure to non-Hodgskins lymphoma, or an African American surgeon who saves their life in an emergency room.

The problem is David Duke and others saw the Presidents announcement as an approval. And it goes back to the code..."Let's make American great again." It wasn't just a slogan.

 

[Coug95man2]

Well....there is a huge distinction. You can hate and rise

Your building can be replaced. The people the KKK, the Neo Nazis have killed cant be. Antifa while methods and even ideology may differ from mine, for them to be in the same sentence from those who want to dehumanize or restrict the rights of others because of skin color or ethnicity is simply misguided in my opinion. Hell the "jew" that these folks want to eradicate may be the person who finds a cure to non-Hodgskins lymphoma, or an African American surgeon who saves their life in an emergency room.

The problem is David Duke and others saw the Presidents announcement as an approval. And it goes back to the code..."Let's make American great again." It wasn't just a slogan.

Again, I think you're missing the point. I agree that the President's comments were wrong and bad and horrid and despicable and whatever other adjective you want to place on them. And I don't think anyone disagrees with the concept that any given person has value. I guess I could be missing the point, if others think that isn't a given... please elaborate if everything you say above isn't a given.

But the cornerstone of that very concept is NOT hate. In any form. MLK and others have paved that path. We should never accept the concept that hate is OK if it's for the right reasons. That's like saying lying is OK for the right reasons. I'm a firm believer that telling the truth is always better. Always. I always believe that hate is wrong. In all forms. That becomes a sliding scale, and downward spiral. And I think a part of the debate here is what is being attributed to Antifa. Hate has spewed from that organization for years. And IMHO it is despicable. And just because they haven't killed anyone doesn't mean they aren't on the exact same path. They are a sliver away from it. Hate is hate, in all forms. They aren't just anti-NeoNazi but anti government and anti capitalism. EDIT: They are anarchists.
http://www.cnn.com/2017/08/18/us/unmasking-antifa-anti-fascists-hard-left/index.html