Wow… Art Briles
- Thread starter Coug95man2
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The football coaches and football admins conducted their own investigations over sexual assault complaints against players, even going so far as to interview the alleged victims. Then didn't even bother to tell school officials???
Holy cow. How stupid can you be?
Remember that this is the school that had a basketball player murder another player on the team several years ago. Honestly, Baylor should get out of big time athletics if they can't keep their house in order. Talk about destroying their university's brand.
On field, yes. but the part that keeps escaping you due to cookie butter overload, is that I said back then I would rather have Leach...and again, I would just like to run the ball more.
I know, the wanting to run the ball more ruffles a lot of feathers around here...but that was the genesis of that whole argument.
you also said leach would not get it done at WSU, after one half of football.
give up on the revisionist history
Well, darn. It's a shame that, as I stated plainly months ago, a coach can't be the way he was OFF THE FIELD. You know- part of coaching. Oh well, the better coach- still employed.
And no, he's not better on field either.
This is surprising on first glance but in retrospect not so much. Yesterday Baylor's BOR removed the president, Ken Starr, offering him a post in their law school if I recall correctly. (Yes, the same Ken Starr who was the Lewinsky/Clinton prosecutor.) Sounds to me that the BOR is cleaning house down there. Their problems would be embarrassing to a secular university and must be doubly so to a religiously affiliated one. Southern Baptist, I believe. About time.
Who is their AD and is he next? And what happens to the staff? The BOR is not happy.
Maybe not the right time to bring this up but I wonder what the effect this will have on their recruiting. Certainly deleterious but to what extent? And who will be Briles' replacement? Considering the BOR's actions I doubt that he will be in-house. I expect a shuffling of a few more seats in the FBS in the near future.
Who is their AD and is he next? And what happens to the staff? The BOR is not happy.
Maybe not the right time to bring this up but I wonder what the effect this will have on their recruiting. Certainly deleterious but to what extent? And who will be Briles' replacement? Considering the BOR's actions I doubt that he will be in-house. I expect a shuffling of a few more seats in the FBS in the near future.
they probably expected more when they made that moral icon Ken Starr president of the university
I would "like" this post but that seems somewhat improper under the circumstances. So I will just say that I agree completely. How many religious parents are going to send their child to a university where rape and murder and God-knows-what-else are swept under the rug?
Wow. Pretty sad and pathetic, another football program moves to minimize illegal behavior by their football stars. Baylor can do the right thing by getting rid of those who allow it to happen. Look at Penn State and no further.... now Baylor with covering up rape behavior of their players..... When will people just figure it out that this type of behavior is horrible and ANYONE needs to be held responsible for their behavior to the fullest extent of the law. Stop protecting these criminals!!! I love that Mike Leach has strict rules of behavior for WSU team members and I fully support holding every member of the Cougs accountable for their behavior. WSU and the 'rule of law' are WAY more important than only football ! Having said that........ now..... GO COUGS !!!
Not sure where I read it (Sports Illustrated maybe?), but there was an article written a few years back that talked about Baylor's new-found emphasis on dumping money into their athletics, taking on a win-at-all-cost attitude similar to what Oregon has been doing. And now the chickens are coming home to roost.
Baylor is definitely a "good" example of the danger of putting athletics first. It's sad when Oregon is highly ethical compared to someone without a doubt.
Adding to my previous post I see that the Baylor AD has been "sanctioned and placed on probation", whatever that means. Wouldn't be surprised to see them keep him around long enough for Briles' replacement and then let him go too.
On brand x the names of Dykes, Graham, RichRod and even Leach have been named as potential choices for Baylor's next HC. Dykes and Graham have ties to Texas and make sense. RichRod, I don't know. Cannot see Leach taking the job although would not be shocked if they approached him. Seriously doubt that he would want to leave after years of building the program to the verge of great success in Pullman only to jump into that miserable scenario in a state where he got screwed. As I said in my previous post, there will be some shuffling of jobs and it is possible that they may appear in our own conference. Would not mind seeing one of the other mentioned candidates leave as this would open up some possible recruiting flips.
Finger is right about Baylor's athletic finances. They just built a new stadium down there and may be looking at a mediocre/sub-par football team playing in it.
I am wondering about the NCAA's response to all this. The law firm they hired to examine the situation responded with a paper that cited a systemic culture of irresponsibility toward off-field issues and even concealment of the problems. Along with active discouragement of victims reporting the assaults and punitive action taken against at least one of those who did. Certainly sounds like systemic lack of control to me and a clear violation of Title IX.
This has not ended yet by a long shot. More shoes will drop in the coming months.
On brand x the names of Dykes, Graham, RichRod and even Leach have been named as potential choices for Baylor's next HC. Dykes and Graham have ties to Texas and make sense. RichRod, I don't know. Cannot see Leach taking the job although would not be shocked if they approached him. Seriously doubt that he would want to leave after years of building the program to the verge of great success in Pullman only to jump into that miserable scenario in a state where he got screwed. As I said in my previous post, there will be some shuffling of jobs and it is possible that they may appear in our own conference. Would not mind seeing one of the other mentioned candidates leave as this would open up some possible recruiting flips.
Finger is right about Baylor's athletic finances. They just built a new stadium down there and may be looking at a mediocre/sub-par football team playing in it.
I am wondering about the NCAA's response to all this. The law firm they hired to examine the situation responded with a paper that cited a systemic culture of irresponsibility toward off-field issues and even concealment of the problems. Along with active discouragement of victims reporting the assaults and punitive action taken against at least one of those who did. Certainly sounds like systemic lack of control to me and a clear violation of Title IX.
This has not ended yet by a long shot. More shoes will drop in the coming months.
Maybe they're looking to follow in the footsteps of that other Texas christian school--SMU--to get the dreaded death penalty?
SMU came to my mind too. I seriously doubt whether the NCAA will come down that hard if at all. SMU's illicit behavior involved football not off-field problems. And let's face it, the NCAA is more concerned with football than other aspects of campus life. This is to me unfortunate but true. And they don't deal with great force with football cheating unless required by public disgust. Also Baylor- to their credit- is actively and forcefully cleaning up their mess while SMU did nothing. The NCAA had to do it for them.
Unless a coaches seat is getting warm I don't know who would sign on for that s-show. No President, AD probably follows out the door, culture in shambles, media mess.
Some possible candidates to replace Briles as per the Rivals Baylor board:
David Bailiff (58) Rice HC Good but not great record at Rice which is not bad considering Rice's place in the football world. Voted "Houston's Best Sports Role Model" in 2013 which might be attractive to Baylor's BOR.
Dino Babers (54) Syracuse HC Four years at Baylor under Briles 2008-2011.
Phillip Montgomery (44) Tulsa HC Fifteen years under Briles in high school and college ranks.
Larry Fedora (53) North Carolina HC On Baylor staff from 1991-1996. Born and raised in Texas.
Sonny Dykes A good fit and was looking to get out of Berkeley a few months ago.
Sterlin Gilbert (37) U. of Texas OC Served with Briles at University of Houston.
Tom Herman (40) University of Houston HC
Chad Morris (47) SMU HC Former successful OC at Clemson. One year at SMU with 2-10 record.
Sonny Cumbie (34) and Doug Meacham (51) co-OCs at TCU
Anyway those are the thoughts from closer to Waco than we are.
A few thoughts that have come to mind: Larry Fedora? You're kidding! With the lack of academic integrity at UNC and under NCAA investigation- no chance. Chad Morris with a 2-10 record in his first year as HC- doubtful. Sonny Cumbie is still too young and inexperienced. Not yet an OC but a co-OC. Needs more seasoning.
Prior association with Briles is a mixed blessing. Good in the sense that one would be familiar with the offense and fairly quickly could put the team back on track. Bad in the sense that association with Briles obviously raises character questions. Whoever they pick will have to demonstrate good moral judgment and behavior especially those with a background under Briles.
David Bailiff (58) Rice HC Good but not great record at Rice which is not bad considering Rice's place in the football world. Voted "Houston's Best Sports Role Model" in 2013 which might be attractive to Baylor's BOR.
Dino Babers (54) Syracuse HC Four years at Baylor under Briles 2008-2011.
Phillip Montgomery (44) Tulsa HC Fifteen years under Briles in high school and college ranks.
Larry Fedora (53) North Carolina HC On Baylor staff from 1991-1996. Born and raised in Texas.
Sonny Dykes A good fit and was looking to get out of Berkeley a few months ago.
Sterlin Gilbert (37) U. of Texas OC Served with Briles at University of Houston.
Tom Herman (40) University of Houston HC
Chad Morris (47) SMU HC Former successful OC at Clemson. One year at SMU with 2-10 record.
Sonny Cumbie (34) and Doug Meacham (51) co-OCs at TCU
Anyway those are the thoughts from closer to Waco than we are.
A few thoughts that have come to mind: Larry Fedora? You're kidding! With the lack of academic integrity at UNC and under NCAA investigation- no chance. Chad Morris with a 2-10 record in his first year as HC- doubtful. Sonny Cumbie is still too young and inexperienced. Not yet an OC but a co-OC. Needs more seasoning.
Prior association with Briles is a mixed blessing. Good in the sense that one would be familiar with the offense and fairly quickly could put the team back on track. Bad in the sense that association with Briles obviously raises character questions. Whoever they pick will have to demonstrate good moral judgment and behavior especially those with a background under Briles.
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Your second sentence is accurate and to the point. As far as who would take the job? Well, obviously someone will. Briles was pulling down $6,000,000 per year so they certainly have the ability to throw money at the candidates. And with the "s-show", as you put it, that they are dealing with they damn well have to. Don't underestimate the egos of some of these guys. Somebody- and probably a lot of somebodies- will think "Dang, I can fix that and for six mill a year? Where do I sign?". You are undoubtedly correct that many coaches won't touch the job with the proverbial ten foot pole but somebody will. Somebody brimming with self confidence and itching for that big paycheck.
I read 6 but for all I know you might be right. Maybe the 6 included a lot of incentive bonuses.
He was at 3.1 in 2014, and appeared to get a raise shortly after that:
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefoo...81/baylor-extends-art-briles-contract-to-2023
The adults finally made their presence known at Baylor. Let's recognize when comparing the Baylor situation to the SMU situation that the adults never did assert themselves at SMU; they aided and abetted, which is why they ended up with the death penalty. You could argue that at Baylor it was too little, too late, but at least they finally made an effort to clean house.
O.K., I finally found where I read the six million annually figure. It was an article on ESPN stating that since Baylor was a private school they did not have to release salary figures but that it was believed he made almost six million and was generally believed to be the highest paid coach in the Big12. So neither of us know for sure. The ESPN estimate would be consistent with your figure, somewhere in the mid fours, and with another one million or so in bonus money. Let's hope Leach does not hear about this. We're only paying him about half what Briles was making. I wish some of those who whined about his income would consider this. From my angle Leach looks like a bargain.
Crapload of money for recruiting and playing thug criminals, any way you slice it. On the bright side for Art, he now has the resume to coach at UW.
I wonder how long it will take him to land on his feet as HC or OC in the SEC.
No question, someone will take it on. I just doubt that someone is from a reasonably establishes and/or P5 conference. If there is some kind of connection maybe but what a mess to step into. As you say though, someone will sign up for it especially if they back up the truck.
People also said a lot of stuff after the PSU game as well that they were wrong about. And what Art Briles did on the field was nothing short of amazing.
Why wouldn't his name come up? He is revered in Texas, has a wide open defense, and probably the most important trait for Baylor right now is he has a firm rule on violence against woman. And on top of that, I can think of six million reasons why someone like Leach would be attracted to the job. The current staff will pick up the pieces, get through the next nine months and the next full time coach will see if the NCAA will lay down the hammer.
W Bruce, I agree with you. Starr should be gone. Not reassigned but gone. My guess is there will be enough pressure to get rid of him from his teaching position.
I do think it is a great lesson that even though a kid is supremely talented, some kids you just stay away from. As Biggs pointed out with the lineman from Michigan, why recruit a kid who was booted from Michigan for his behavior with a coed? Under the best case scenario he used poor judgment by taping activities unknown to his partner. Does it compare to the Baylor case, of course not, the woman said the sex was consensual.
Of course this kid should be given a second chance. But why bring in that potential problem?
Ed, I also think that Leach would be a brilliant selection for Baylor. But I don't see Leach regarding Baylor as a brilliant move for him. Honestly, I would be flabbergasted and confused if this occurred. My appraisal- no way.
Baylor's case is more complex than I realized. An article in SI brought some new points to my attention. A synopsis of the factors that I found pertinent and interesting are below.
Firstly, the NCAA will not step in. Their attempt to further penalize Penn State for the Sandusky scandal resulted in a legal failure. Their field of influence is limited to strictly athletic matters and, frankly, I suspect they are fine with this. Why dive into a cesspool like this unless required? They will most likely piddle around the edge and present a phony misgiving and then do nothing.
Impact on the school in brief: The student population is approximately 17,000, 58% of whom are female. Cost of attendance is around 58 thousand per year with 42 thousand of that being tuition and other fees. A 25% reduction in next year's freshman class- described in the article as conservative- would cost the school around 38 million in lost revenue.
Possible legal penalties: This behavior is a clear violation of the federal Clery Act. Their problems are therefore now transferred from the NCAA to the federal government. There exists a possibility that they could be barred from federal aid. Effectively a "death sentence" not only on the football program but the entire school. We are now in the midst of an election year so there may be some posing and hypocritical chest pounding by some candidates for various offices, national and state, urging the Justice Department to deal forcefully with this. Unless, of course, they find the donations from Texas oil, cattle and other concerns to be of greater importance.
Baylor's football staff: Briles has informed those concerned that he would be the only member of the staff to be dismissed. Yet the report from the investigators mentioned coaches- plural- involved in the cover-up. Surely when dealing with a player's infraction not only Briles but also his position coach would have been involved. And possibly the OC or DC of said player. So at least one and most likely more of the retained staff were involved yet are, as of now, still retained. I expect other heads to fall in the future.
Pepper Hamilton: This Philadelphia legal firm hired by Baylor to perform the investigation has experience in these matters. They also have a reputation for being easy on their clients in their findings. Even they were appalled by what they found and submitted their damning document. Is there more behind this than what has been publicly announced?
In summation, there is more here than just a football program with a moral culture problem that needs to be straightened out. It now appears that it affects more than that. The Justice Department, politics, money, the NCAA, football, morality, a conflict between the two religions- Christianity and football, and even the future existence of the school itself. Not at all straightforward. Lots of swirling currents and back eddies complicate this subject.
Firstly, the NCAA will not step in. Their attempt to further penalize Penn State for the Sandusky scandal resulted in a legal failure. Their field of influence is limited to strictly athletic matters and, frankly, I suspect they are fine with this. Why dive into a cesspool like this unless required? They will most likely piddle around the edge and present a phony misgiving and then do nothing.
Impact on the school in brief: The student population is approximately 17,000, 58% of whom are female. Cost of attendance is around 58 thousand per year with 42 thousand of that being tuition and other fees. A 25% reduction in next year's freshman class- described in the article as conservative- would cost the school around 38 million in lost revenue.
Possible legal penalties: This behavior is a clear violation of the federal Clery Act. Their problems are therefore now transferred from the NCAA to the federal government. There exists a possibility that they could be barred from federal aid. Effectively a "death sentence" not only on the football program but the entire school. We are now in the midst of an election year so there may be some posing and hypocritical chest pounding by some candidates for various offices, national and state, urging the Justice Department to deal forcefully with this. Unless, of course, they find the donations from Texas oil, cattle and other concerns to be of greater importance.
Baylor's football staff: Briles has informed those concerned that he would be the only member of the staff to be dismissed. Yet the report from the investigators mentioned coaches- plural- involved in the cover-up. Surely when dealing with a player's infraction not only Briles but also his position coach would have been involved. And possibly the OC or DC of said player. So at least one and most likely more of the retained staff were involved yet are, as of now, still retained. I expect other heads to fall in the future.
Pepper Hamilton: This Philadelphia legal firm hired by Baylor to perform the investigation has experience in these matters. They also have a reputation for being easy on their clients in their findings. Even they were appalled by what they found and submitted their damning document. Is there more behind this than what has been publicly announced?
In summation, there is more here than just a football program with a moral culture problem that needs to be straightened out. It now appears that it affects more than that. The Justice Department, politics, money, the NCAA, football, morality, a conflict between the two religions- Christianity and football, and even the future existence of the school itself. Not at all straightforward. Lots of swirling currents and back eddies complicate this subject.
When you look at the big picture at Washington State, academics is still most important. We mortgage ourselves a little bit, but there is still some grounding. When you look at donations, WSU athletics brings in less the $10 million per year, which we all agree isn't good. When you look at WSU's university wide funding campaign that ended last year, the school raised over $1 billion in a 10 year period.....or just over $100 million per year. So, while athletics are important, WSU and it's fans knows that academics are more important.
Who is the highest paid employee at WSU? Rank the top five employees by salary. That gives you some insight.
One can chew gum and walk at the same time. Doing one doesn't preclude the other. There may be a school in the Pac12 that puts so much into their athletics that their academics suffers but I cannot think of one immediately. Stanford, Cal, UCLA, Duke, Notre Dame and others are examples of universities with high achievements in both areas. Mike Leach- now that I think of it- is another good example. He took Texas Tech to football heights while also attaining the highest scholastic achievement of any public university in the country. It can be done.
There are, obviously, those average at both, sub-par at both, those who place little significance on sports, e.g. the ivy league, and, yes, some who emphasize athletics- often football- at the expense of a university's primary goal, education. I can recall years ago while stationed in Fort Benning, Georgia and one morning reading the newspaper proudly proclaiming that Alabama was building a fancy new dorm exclusively for the football team. A letter to the editor from one of the faculty complained because the faculty was without telephones. The U. of A. didn't want to pay their phone bills. It comes down to priorities and capabilities.
I believe that Wazzu is doing fine in that regard. Increased spending on athletic facilities has brought expanded recognition to the university and what it offers to prospective students and faculty. I am unaware of any deterioration of academic quality that has occurred as a result of the athletic expansion. The interplay between the athletic department and other departments in Pullman appear to me to be well balanced. If, hypothetically, the school ran off the tracks in this matter and leaned toward a monetary split similar to that Bear Bryant enjoyed or if ethics was disregarded as we currently can view in Waco, Texas then I have no doubt whatever that the alumni base would be outraged and administrative heads would be on sticks in no time.
An improper imbalance in this matter depends on an alumni willing to support it. We won't and won't stand for it.
Your observation about salaries is a good point. However, can we agree that some of these senior executive salaries found in the U.S. today are absurd and ridiculously out of whack? Sports is no exception. Does Mike Leach really need two million plus per annum to live a comfortable life? Of course not. These preposterous and unwarranted incomes are a result of a dick measuring contest spurred on by the Lake Wobegon Effect. But it is a fact of life that we deal with today. And not dealing with it has consequences. When Leach requested/demanded that Texas Tech compensate him on an equal basis with other accomplished HCs in the Southwest, Texas Tech refused and then acquiesced and then screwed him. They have been struggling ever since to regain the status and success that he had raised them to. Leach makes more than he needs but, unlike many other highly compensated executives, he's worth it. I am unaware of any negative effect on WSU's academics.
If one looks on WSU's individual salaries through the lens of a dick measuring contest then, yes, we are paying too much attention to sports. I don't. We are paying what the market, rightly or wrongly, has determined proper. I find the balance at WSU satisfactory along with the balances of most other universities. We and most other colleges are walking and chewing gum just fine.
