WSU clearly has transcended...

[YakiCoug]

the debacle that was the 6-40 Wulff era, but it also is at a critical juncture. What must this program do to take 9-4/8-5 to a higher level? We lack WRs who can take the top off a defense. We lack elite speed at LB. We are losing our top DB. We are dangerously thin at the d-tackle positions. We return a QB who has absolutely fallen apart in his last three games. We enter 2017 with a three-game losing streak and a trend of starting each season slowly aka as losing. And the current recruiting class does appear to provide immediate relief. Is WSU peering once again into the Wulffian abyss?

 

[Cougatron]

the debacle that was the 6-40 Wulff era, but it also is at a critical juncture. What must this program do to take 9-4/8-5 to a higher level? We lack WRs who can take the top off a defense. We lack elite speed at LB. We are losing our top DB. We are dangerously thin at the d-tackle positions. We return a QB who has absolutely fallen apart in his last three games. We enter 2017 with a three-game losing streak and a trend of starting each season slowly aka as losing. And the current recruiting class does appear to provide immediate relief. Is WSU peering once again into the Wulffian abyss?

Wulffian abyss? No way.

We are at the next stage in program development. Remember building a program is a process. As always I like to look at history to tell me what is really going on.

Now evaluating Leach from his days at Texas Tech we can see his first 8 years.

7-6
7-5
9-5
8-5
8-4
9-3
8-5
9-4
11-2

Here at WSU he has gone

3-9
6-7
3-9
9-4
8-5

Interesting to note in Leach's career...

at Texas Tech he went 9 wins his 3rd year and 8 wins his 4th.
at WSU he went 9 wins his 4th year and 8 wins his 5th

Obviously, players are different, opponents are different, as are all the nuances of each individual game, but looking at a body of work you can see the striking similarity.

The early part of Leach's tenure was getting us out of the Wulffian abyss, and now we are at the "above average" stage.

Now to get to the next level we have to keep building on the structure we have. Leach hit 11 wins his 8th year. We will be entering his 6th at WSU next year.

So there isn't anything to really get worried about. Mike Price hit 10 wins his 9th year, and honestly in terms of program building, we are right on schedule.

Although it sucks that we lost, and we all know there were numerous games I think we could have won if we brought our A game. Eastern, Boise, Colorado, and Minnesota we all know we could have beaten if we played our best. We unfortunately didn't, but that's why you play the games. Sometimes you aren't your best, sometimes you are. The key is to keep building so our ceiling keeps getting higher and higher. When 4 out 5 games were totally winable games and you STILL win 8 games... that's not bad place to be in.

Looking at the team I see a LOT of talented guys who can contribute next year, and whole bunch of young guys who can really step up their game.

We need to get the next QB ready to take the reins for the future, we need receivers to develop and get stronger and better, we need the lines to get steadily better and improve. That's how you build a program.

We went from the worst teams in all of college football, to winning the Sun Bowl, to a couple games shy of the Rose Bowl. That's how far we have come as a program, and while disappointment always is the feeling when expectations don't meet reality. LOOK AT WHERE OUR EXPECTATION ARE. That's pretty incredible. Now obviously we want to win every single game, but we aren't as developed a program as let's say Oregon, or a Stanford+Harbaugh.

We were the worst. And at the end of the Pac-12 season we were the 3rd best jockeying for 1st?

I know people are disappointed, and hey I am too, but we get a brand new season next year and it will be exciting too. We will get back to the Rose Bowl, and we will win plenty of games. We are an above average team, and you know what...I'm very happy with that. Now I could be a lot happier had we won, but I take things in perspective over the long run. Are we moving towards the right direction overall as a program? Back to back winning seasons? 1 bowl win 1 almost Pac-12 championship game appearance. Yeah, we are just fine.

 

[Coug90]

the debacle that was the 6-40 Wulff era, but it also is at a critical juncture. What must this program do to take 9-4/8-5 to a higher level? We lack WRs who can take the top off a defense. We lack elite speed at LB. We are losing our top DB. We are dangerously thin at the d-tackle positions. We return a QB who has absolutely fallen apart in his last three games. We enter 2017 with a three-game losing streak and a trend of starting each season slowly aka as losing. And the current recruiting class does appear to provide immediate relief. Is WSU peering once again into the Wulffian abyss?

Yeah, there's no way we dip back into that poop storm again. At the worst I think we knock off most of the bad teams in the conference and get to lower level bowls. Unfortunately I'm not seeing a ceiling that includes a PAC 12 title unless Leach has an absolute stud at QB. Someone else has mentioned this several times, but I really think a dual threat QB would do wonders for this offense. A true running QB almost is like having 12 guys in offense. Falk is do damn slow it's like having 10 on offense.

 

[SCglory]

the debacle that was the 6-40 Wulff era, but it also is at a critical juncture. What must this program do to take 9-4/8-5 to a higher level? We lack WRs who can take the top off a defense. We lack elite speed at LB. We are losing our top DB. We are dangerously thin at the d-tackle positions. We return a QB who has absolutely fallen apart in his last three games. We enter 2017 with a three-game losing streak and a trend of starting each season slowly aka as losing. And the current recruiting class does appear to provide immediate relief. Is WSU peering once again into the Wulffian abyss?

It is precisely as serious as you suggest. If last night's debacle had followed two great performances against Colorado and U-dub, then it would be tempting to explain last night as an anomaly, a freak. But it wasn't. It looks more to me that Leach is simply incapable of breaking through to the level of elite Pac-12 teams. It's now officially a pattern. When a team can rush 3, and overpower your FIVE, constantly pressuring or sacking your QB, that shows a O-line that are full of dregs and softies. When a team has supposedly an "elite" QB who apparently has not learned even how to throw the ball away....at this point, he is not getting it, and he also has reached his ceiling. I saw NO aspect of the cougars last night that could be classified as "good." They looked so bad, in fact, that if I were on ANY bowl selection committee for next year I would think twice about inviting them. You called the game "boring." It was. Who in his right mind--outside the two fan bases--would watch that game??? Leach's message is not getting through, and the guys did not play even decent for him. And, Luke Falk, once thought to be the strength of the team? He and the receivers could not even play decently against a secondary depleted to the bare bones. It was an embarrassing performance at ALL levels, and it looked to me that every position on the team (inc. coaches) should be open to discussion and replacement. Cougs should have won by 30 points, and they were dominated by a defense missing most of its stars. Worst performance on this stage I have seen in quite some while.

 

[CougPatrol]

Nope. We just weren't a good team this year. The Pac-12 wasn't a good conference this year. West Coast football wasn't strong this year. It happens. These trends are cyclical.

We need to completely overhaul the WR position, something that should be fixable. The defense isn't strong, and I'm still not sure about Grinch, but it was good enough to win yesterday.

Next season shapes up a lot like this season. Montana State, Nevada, and Boise State. A tougher conference schedule, but still a lot of winnable games. Gotta work on Falk's internal clock and pre-snap reads. If he does that, and I think he will, we'll be in the mix for another 7 or 8 win season.

 

[SCglory]

Wulffian abyss? No way.

We are at the next stage in program development. Remember building a program is a process. As always I like to look at history to tell me what is really going on.

Now evaluating Leach from his days at Texas Tech we can see his first 8 years.

7-6
7-5
9-5
8-5
8-4
9-3
8-5
9-4
11-2

Here at WSU he has gone

3-9
6-7
3-9
9-4
8-5

Interesting to note in Leach's career...

at Texas Tech he went 9 wins his 3rd year and 8 wins his 4th.
at WSU he went 9 wins his 4th year and 8 wins his 5th

Obviously, players are different, opponents are different, as are all the nuances of each individual game, but looking at a body of work you can see the striking similarity.

The early part of Leach's tenure was getting us out of the Wulffian abyss, and now we are at the "above average" stage.

Now to get to the next level we have to keep building on the structure we have. Leach hit 11 wins his 8th year. We will be entering his 6th at WSU next year.

So there isn't anything to really get worried about. Mike Price hit 10 wins his 9th year, and honestly in terms of program building, we are right on schedule.

Although it sucks that we lost, and we all know there were numerous games I think we could have won if we brought our A game. Eastern, Boise, Colorado, and Minnesota we all know we could have beaten if we played our best. We unfortunately didn't, but that's why you play the games. Sometimes you aren't your best, sometimes you are. The key is to keep building so our ceiling keeps getting higher and higher. When 4 out 5 games were totally winable games and you STILL win 8 games... that's not bad place to be in.

Looking at the team I see a LOT of talented guys who can contribute next year, and whole bunch of young guys who can really step up their game.

We need to get the next QB ready to take the reins for the future, we need receivers to develop and get stronger and better, we need the lines to get steadily better and improve. That's how you build a program.

We went from the worst teams in all of college football, to winning the Sun Bowl, to a couple games shy of the Rose Bowl. That's how far we have come as a program, and while disappointment always is the feeling when expectations don't meet reality. LOOK AT WHERE OUR EXPECTATION ARE. That's pretty incredible. Now obviously we want to win every single game, but we aren't as developed a program as let's say Oregon, or a Stanford+Harbaugh.

We were the worst. And at the end of the Pac-12 season we were the 3rd best jockeying for 1st?

I know people are disappointed, and hey I am too, but we get a brand new season next year and it will be exciting too. We will get back to the Rose Bowl, and we will win plenty of games. We are an above average team, and you know what...I'm very happy with that. Now I could be a lot happier had we won, but I take things in perspective over the long run. Are we moving towards the right direction overall as a program? Back to back winning seasons? 1 bowl win 1 almost Pac-12 championship game appearance. Yeah, we are just fine.

Sorry, you're spinning faster than a Irish washer-woman. Cougs are trending down, and they are doing so at precisely the time they should be trending UP. Falk should be at his prime, and he has clearly regressed. An O-line that is so slow, weak, fat, and stupid that 5 of them cannot block 3 of Minnesota's! (and that is even AFTER their star D-line guy went out). Receivers who can't get open (because gophers can let 3 guys take care of Falk and the entire cougar running game. A defense that allowed a QB whose 4th Q record was 1 completion and 5 picks....BEAT them!! Like I said, if the cougs had played well against CU or UW, this debacle could be argued as an anomaly. But it wasn't. The players just aren't getting it, and it is not clear watching Leach if he has any "it" worth getting. He was obviously pissed that the team's weak performance, who could blame him, but I no longer think he's a lock for the best coach possible for WSU. And who does the strength and conditioning for the cougs: Wendy's? Subway? Anyone who calls this team "just fine" is clueless when it comes to college football.

 

[CougPatrol]

When a team has supposedly an "elite" QB who apparently has not learned even how to throw the ball away....at this point, he is not getting it, and he also has reached his ceiling.

This was my biggest complaint about last nights game. Falk's (and Leach's) failure to recognize what type of game this was at halftime. Many of the sacks and pressures were Falk induced. He had ample time to check down, step up in the pocket, or unload the ball. Minnesota wasn't going to win the game on offense, so we could've altered our game plan by slamming the running plays, quick hitting passes, and challenging their depleted DB's with jump balls on verticals. We did none of that.

As far as the fan base panic following the loss, it goes with the territory. The Pac-12 sucked this season. WSU didn't beat anyone all season, and that includes Stanford. They stink too, especially at the time we played them.

The players and coaches deserve some rotten tomatoes for last nights performance, but another way of looking at this season is that we were very fortunate to win 7 conference games. This team had no business being in the P12 championship mix in mid-November, but somehow, we were there. Last nights game will motivate the team and coaches during the offseason. Leach as qualified for what? 13 bowl games in 15 seasons? I don't think it's logical to say, "that's it, we're going in the tank." We just didn't have it this season, and neither did 10 other Pac-12 teams. The Big-10, on the other hand, was very good. Not sure how elite their upper crust is, but the depth of the Big-10 this season was vastly superior to the Pac-12.

 

[avabob1]

Not defending Falk last night, but we have had more dropped passes since Craycraft got hurt than in the entire season and a half prior

 

[CougPatrol]

Anyone who calls this team "just fine" is clueless when it comes to college football.

Not disagreeing with you entirely, but what does the fact that WSU won 7 league games say about the Pac-12? WSU's defense didn't play well against Colorado, but that game was even all the way to the end. Hell, we should have been up 27-7 in the first half.

If last night was a real-time barometer for WSU, then we should fully expect the rest of the conference to suck eggs this bowl season. Utah faces Indiana tonight. USC plays Penn State in the Rose Bowl. Stanford plays UNC without McCafferey. UW faces Alabama.

WSU is not "just fine" by a long shot, but the entire Pac-12 conference less USC and UW have pretty big problems to solve as well.

 

[YakiCoug]

Yeah, there's no way we dip back into that poop storm again. At the worst I think we knock off most of the bad teams in the conference and get to lower level bowls. Unfortunately I'm not seeing a ceiling that includes a PAC 12 title unless Leach has an absolute stud at QB. Someone else has mentioned this several times, but I really think a dual threat QB would do wonders for this offense. A true running QB almost is like having 12 guys in offense. Falk is do damn slow it's like having 10 on offense.

Spot on. He's also a guy who physically weakens as the season goes on. I don't know if it can be attributed to his diet, but the guy looks like a twig just begging to be snapped.

 

[CougPatrol]

Spot on. He's also a guy who physically weakens as the season goes on. I don't know if it can be attributed to his diet, but the guy looks like a twig just begging to be snapped.

Yea, if Falk hopes to have any future at the next level (including the CFL), he needs to develop pocket presence. Tom Brady is the gold standard for a slug who's pocket instincts make up for it. I have zero QB skills, but I would fare better under pressure than Falk. Rolling out, unload the f#$king ball. Pressure up the middle? Step up in the pocket and dive for 4 yards if need be. If your initial 2 reads aren't there, again study Tom Brady. He goes against conventional coaching and takes his eyes off the WRs momentarily to assess the coverage, moves to space, and fires the ball down field. That was there last night for Luke, but he froze up.

I don't know if we need a true running QB, but yes, it would sure help if our next pocket passer had some mobility.

 

[dgibbons]

Sorry, you're spinning faster than a Irish washer-woman. Cougs are trending down, and they are doing so at precisely the time they should be trending UP. Falk should be at his prime, and he has clearly regressed. An O-line that is so slow, weak, fat, and stupid that 5 of them cannot block 3 of Minnesota's! (and that is even AFTER their star D-line guy went out). Receivers who can't get open (because gophers can let 3 guys take care of Falk and the entire cougar running game. A defense that allowed a QB whose 4th Q record was 1 completion and 5 picks....BEAT them!! Like I said, if the cougs had played well against CU or UW, this debacle could be argued as an anomaly. But it wasn't. The players just aren't getting it, and it is not clear watching Leach if he has any "it" worth getting. He was obviously pissed that the team's weak performance, who could blame him, but I no longer think he's a lock for the best coach possible for WSU. And who does the strength and conditioning for the cougs: Wendy's? Subway? Anyone who calls this team "just fine" is clueless when it comes to college football.

How exactly are back to back bowl games for the second time in school history a downward trend?

Last night's game was a steaming turd. There is no question about that.

 

[YakiCoug]

How exactly are back to back bowl games for the second time in school history a downward trend?

Last night's game was a steaming turd. There is no question about that.

It's not a trend, but we are at that juncture where the program needs to move on to a higher level. Recruiting slow, possession receivers isn't going to get us there. Playing weak-armed statues at QB isn't going to get us there. Running the same plays again and again against defenses squatting in the lanes and abandoning the reasons for success this season is mindless.

 

[dgibbons]

It's not a trend, but we are at that juncture where the program needs to move on to a higher level. Recruiting slow, possession receivers isn't going to get us there. Playing weak-armed statues at QB isn't going to get us there. Running the same plays again and again against defenses squatting in the lanes and abandoning the reasons for success this season is mindless.

Getting Priester back will be important. Hopefully this Winston guy has legit speed. We have the running backs we need and Falk is a good fit for this offense despite dropping a turd last night.

It's weird to say, but WR recruiting has been somewhat disappointing and RB recruiting has significantly exceeded expectations.

 

[MRICoug]

Getting Priester back will be important. Hopefully this Winston guy has legit speed. We have the running backs we need and Falk is a good fit for this offense despite dropping a turd last night.

It's weird to say, but WR recruiting has been somewhat disappointing and RB recruiting has significantly exceeded expectations.

That has surprised me as well. I mentioned to my wife that it is astounding we have 3 solid RB's and zero over the top WR's and only had 1 true possession WR. WTH?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

It's not a trend, but we are at that juncture where the program needs to move on to a higher level. Recruiting slow, possession receivers isn't going to get us there. Playing weak-armed statues at QB isn't going to get us there. Running the same plays again and again against defenses squatting in the lanes and abandoning the reasons for success this season is mindless.

I'd take a slow possession reciever who could catch the ball and possess it after contact over anything we saw last night.

 

[YakiCoug]

Getting Priester back will be important. Hopefully this Winston guy has legit speed. We have the running backs we need and Falk is a good fit for this offense despite dropping a turd last night.

It's weird to say, but WR recruiting has been somewhat disappointing and RB recruiting has significantly exceeded expectations.

Many dismissed Priester's 2015 contributions, but he did catch 33 balls for 241 yards that year. With Marks gone, his PT likely jumps, just as Martin's increased this season (his stats reflect that - 16/124 in '15 to 61/708 this season). I suspect that Dimry, if he gets a 6th year, also will see his numbers jump. My concern is how they, as well as Morrow, Williams, Lewis, and Johnson-Mack do against superior defenses. We can beat the mid- and lower-level Pac-12 teams, but we need to see accomplishments v. the top defenses (USC, UW, Utah).
The "iron laws" tell us that Winston won't show up the first half of the season, but those same laws say guys like Priester, Martin, Dimry, and Johnson-Mack will get better. I'd buy into that if Falk improves, but he has regressed.

 

[CougPatrol]

Another thing we have to consider since we're all piling on Falk for last nights dismal performance is whether or not his concussion(s) have affected his play.