"WSU is screwed is we drop to the MWC." Why?

[CougPatrol]

First of all, I'm not talking about WSU's viability as an athletic program with this question. I'm talking about the University, academics, enrollment, etc.

Like everyone affiliated with WSU, I'm very concerned about the state of the university given what's recently transpired. On the other hand, I've started to pose questions about why some people are suggesting this is a potential death blow for the University. That seems like a total cop out. Yes, the finances are going to require a massive adjustment, but the University is still far and away the 2nd biggest and public school in the State (2x the size of WWU and 3x bigger than EWU and CWU). A tier 1 research school. A medical school.

Having been closely connected to WSU since the mid-1980s, I sometimes wonder if not having the P10/P12 umbrella to shelter under will force the school to expand their vision and become a different WSU that's more academically and student focused. The vast majority of the WSU student body are from Western WA, where rah-rah spectator fandom isn't a priority in most kids lives. Certainly not compared to other regions. Perhaps this will serve as a pivot-point for our University? The perfect time to thin our fat-cat administrators and work on rebranding the school.

 

[Stretch 74]

First of all, I'm not talking about WSU's viability as an athletic program with this question. I'm talking about the University, academics, enrollment, etc.

Like everyone affiliated with WSU, I'm very concerned about the state of the university given what's recently transpired. On the other hand, I've started to pose questions about why some people are suggesting this is a potential death blow for the University. That seems like a total cop out. Yes, the finances are going to require a massive adjustment, but the University is still far and away the 2nd biggest and public school in the State (2x the size of WWU and 3x bigger than EWU and CWU). A tier 1 research school. A medical school.

Having been closely connected to WSU since the mid-1980s, I sometimes wonder if not having the P10/P12 umbrella to shelter under will force the school to expand their vision and become a different WSU that's more academically and student focused. The vast majority of the WSU student body are from Western WA, where rah-rah spectator fandom isn't a priority in most kids lives. Certainly not compared to other regions. Perhaps this will serve as a pivot-point for our University? The perfect time to thin our fat-cat administrators and work on rebranding the school.

When listing positives about WSU, never forget to also mention the vet school, top rated Construction Mgmt program, excellent engineering school (better engineers than the uw ones I worked with), and the Communications Department. Maybe a couple others I am missing here, but those are all superior assets.

 

[M-I-Coug]

When listing positives about WSU, never forget to also mention the vet school, top rated Construction Mgmt program, excellent engineering school (better engineers than the uw ones I worked with), and the Communications Department. Maybe a couple others I am missing here, but those are all superior assets.

The Ag school, the wine program, and the pharmacy. What's missing is the dental school and law, (wish we had).

We're not going to the Mountain West. No, I'm not in denial.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

When listing positives about WSU, never forget to also mention the vet school, top rated Construction Mgmt program, excellent engineering school (better engineers than the uw ones I worked with), and the Communications Department. Maybe a couple others I am missing here, but those are all superior assets.

Murrow College of Commnications. Not department. Of course when I went to WSU, the then Comm department was where the Business College dropouts went.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The Ag and wine program, the medical, and pharmacy. What's missing is the dental school and legal, but that doesn't matter.

We're not going to the Mountain West. No, I'm not in denial.

We've got a good whine program, too. 😉

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

First of all, I'm not talking about WSU's viability as an athletic program with this question. I'm talking about the University, academics, enrollment, etc.

Like everyone affiliated with WSU, I'm very concerned about the state of the university given what's recently transpired. On the other hand, I've started to pose questions about why some people are suggesting this is a potential death blow for the University. That seems like a total cop out. Yes, the finances are going to require a massive adjustment, but the University is still far and away the 2nd biggest and public school in the State (2x the size of WWU and 3x bigger than EWU and CWU). A tier 1 research school. A medical school.

Having been closely connected to WSU since the mid-1980s, I sometimes wonder if not having the P10/P12 umbrella to shelter under will force the school to expand their vision and become a different WSU that's more academically and student focused. The vast majority of the WSU student body are from Western WA, where rah-rah spectator fandom isn't a priority in most kids lives. Certainly not compared to other regions. Perhaps this will serve as a pivot-point for our University? The perfect time to thin our fat-cat administrators and work on rebranding the school.

It would be nice. Do we have the visionaries to elevate our university? I'm not convinced. WSU operates in the context of a political ideology that is not particularly interested in cleaning up the course offerings and focusing only on those degrees that add value instead of focusing on grievances and wrongs that lead to a distruction of culture, not a building up of the culture.

 

[CougPatrol]

It would be nice. Do we have the visionaries to elevate our university? I'm not convinced. WSU operates in the context of a political ideology that is not particularly interested in cleaning up the course offerings and focusing only on those degrees that add value instead of focusing on grievances and wrongs that lead to a destruction of culture, not a building up of the culture.

That's kind of my point. For the 40 years that I've been connected to WSU, the academic prestige of the school hasn't changed a bit. Maybe the athletic downsizing will lead to changes within the institutional think tank. Recruiting high school kids is different today than it was 20 years ago.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

The Ag school, the wine program, and the pharmacy. What's missing is the dental school and law, (wish we had).

We're not going to the Mountain West. No, I'm not in denial.

How do you figure that?

 

[Stretch 74]

The Ag school, the wine program, and the pharmacy. What's missing is the dental school and law, (wish we had).

We're not going to the Mountain West. No, I'm not in denial.

Good adds. Thought about Ag after posting but hadn't gone back to throw that into the mix yet. Wouldn't have remembered the other two at all.

 

[M-I-Coug]

How do you figure that?

My gut feeling.
The powers at be will do whatever they can to keep us out of the Mountain West. That would undeniably destroy the school as we know it today. Okay, destroy is a big word. It won't destroy, but it would severely damage.

Would we survive? Sure. But we're not going there, and they won't let it happen.

Again, just a gut feeling.

 

[mikalalas]

The Ag school, the wine program, and the pharmacy. What's missing is the dental school and law, (wish we had).

We're not going to the Mountain West. No, I'm not in denial.

Jason Scheer, Wildcat Authority are reporting that Big 12 authoritative sources are saying otherwise by saying Big 12 in explorative preliminary talks to add Ore St, SDSU, leaving the door open for Stanford, Cal to do their own thing, and for the PAC to become the PAC 1, WSU, and for the PAC 1, WSU to join the MWC, instead of rebuilding the PAC 1, and for the PAC to DIE.

You MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN DENIAL.

 

[M-I-Coug]

Jason Scheer, Wildcat Authority are reporting that Big 12 authoritative sources are saying otherwise by saying Big 12 in explorative preliminary talks to add Ore St, SDSU, leaving the door open for Stanford, Cal to do their own thing, and for the PAC to become the PAC 1, WSU, and for the PAC 1, WSU to join the MWC, instead of rebuilding the PAC 1, and for the PAC to DIE.

You MAY OR MAY NOT BE IN DENIAL.

There are wars and there are rumors of wars.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

Murrow College of Commnications. Not department. Of course when I went to WSU, the then Comm department was where the Business College dropouts went.

The founding Dean tanked our College of Comm.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

First of all, I'm not talking about WSU's viability as an athletic program with this question. I'm talking about the University, academics, enrollment, etc.

Like everyone affiliated with WSU, I'm very concerned about the state of the university given what's recently transpired. On the other hand, I've started to pose questions about why some people are suggesting this is a potential death blow for the University. That seems like a total cop out. Yes, the finances are going to require a massive adjustment, but the University is still far and away the 2nd biggest and public school in the State (2x the size of WWU and 3x bigger than EWU and CWU). A tier 1 research school. A medical school.

Having been closely connected to WSU since the mid-1980s, I sometimes wonder if not having the P10/P12 umbrella to shelter under will force the school to expand their vision and become a different WSU that's more academically and student focused. The vast majority of the WSU student body are from Western WA, where rah-rah spectator fandom isn't a priority in most kids lives. Certainly not compared to other regions. Perhaps this will serve as a pivot-point for our University? The perfect time to thin our fat-cat administrators and work on rebranding the school.

The current admin has tanked WSU's academic standing from 140 in 2018 to 212 in 2023. Embarrassing.

I've asked the question to people if WSU was no longer in P10/P12 if they would consider other options if they were choosing colleges now and most said yes. People that are going to play school, that may not change their decision, but those who want school a bigger athletic culture included too have to weigh their options.

 

[dgibbons]

First of all, I'm not talking about WSU's viability as an athletic program with this question. I'm talking about the University, academics, enrollment, etc.

Like everyone affiliated with WSU, I'm very concerned about the state of the university given what's recently transpired. On the other hand, I've started to pose questions about why some people are suggesting this is a potential death blow for the University. That seems like a total cop out. Yes, the finances are going to require a massive adjustment, but the University is still far and away the 2nd biggest and public school in the State (2x the size of WWU and 3x bigger than EWU and CWU). A tier 1 research school. A medical school.

Having been closely connected to WSU since the mid-1980s, I sometimes wonder if not having the P10/P12 umbrella to shelter under will force the school to expand their vision and become a different WSU that's more academically and student focused. The vast majority of the WSU student body are from Western WA, where rah-rah spectator fandom isn't a priority in most kids lives. Certainly not compared to other regions. Perhaps this will serve as a pivot-point for our University? The perfect time to thin our fat-cat administrators and work on rebranding the school.

Death blow the Athletic Department? I'm afraid it will be, or damn close to it. Athletics in general and football in particular are why we're on this board.

Death blow for the University? I don't see that. I'm not sure what if anything Pac-12 and Power 5 affiliation would have for grants, Tier 1 research status, etc. Houston and Colorado State are Tier 1 research universities. I'm sure there are others, but those are a current and a very recently former Group of 5 schools.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Jason Scheer, Wildcat Authority are reporting that Big 12 authoritative sources are saying otherwise by saying Big 12 in explorative preliminary talks to add Ore St, SDSU, leaving the door open for Stanford, Cal to do their own thing, and for the PAC to become the PAC 1, WSU, and for the PAC 1, WSU to join the MWC, instead of rebuilding the PAC 1, and for the PAC to DIE

Mik, I know relaying what sources say, but why on earth would the Big 12 take Oregon State over WSU? Washington is a more populous state and the Cougs have a much better football history than the Bears.

Just imho, but a strategic move could be adding WSU, OSU, San Diego State and Connecticut for a 20-team conference.

 

[95coug]

The current admin has tanked WSU's academic standing from 140 in 2018 to 212 in 2023. Embarrassing.

I've asked the question to people if WSU was no longer in P10/P12 if they would consider other options if they were choosing colleges now and most said yes. People that are going to play school, that may not change their decision, but those who want school a bigger athletic culture included too have to weigh their options.

Part of that is research funding issues. WSU has historically gotten a ton of research funding from NSF and USDA. A bunch of formerly reliable funding suddenly dried up between 2016-2020 - redirected to other federal priorities, apparently - and hasn’t recovered. They’ve had to shift gears and move more toward DoD and DoE projects. It took some time to learn the new agencies’ processes, people, and politics, and in that time things took a dip. Should start bouncing back in the next couple years.

Part of it is also graduation rates. WSU took a big hit from Covid in kids who got sent home, finished a semester or two online…got a job and have not returned. That blew both year-to-year retention rates and 5-year graduation rates - and blew WSU’s more than most urban schools’. It should cycle out in a few years.

At least, that’s what I’ve heard. If it’s true, WSU should bounce in the ratings in the next 3-4 years…although the height of bounce will likely be impacted by the current conference fiasco.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Death blow the Athletic Department? I'm afraid it will be, or damn close to it. Athletics in general and football in particular are why we're on this board.

Death blow for the University? I don't see that. I'm not sure what if anything Pac-12 and Power 5 affiliation would have for grants, Tier 1 research status, etc. Houston and Colorado State are Tier 1 research universities. I'm sure there are others, but those are a current and a very recently former Group of 5 schools.

There are 5 Tier 1 research universities in the MWC. UNLV, Utah State, New Mexico, Colorado State and UNR. All five are in the Group of 5.

 

[M-I-Coug]

There are 5 Tier 1 research universities in the MWC. UNLV, Utah State, New Mexico, Colorado State and UNR. All five are in the Group of 5.

I've always understood that Boise is not a very good school, academically. Is that true, and confirming....they are not a Tier 1 research university, correct?

 

[Meister_Rebel]

I've always understood that Boise is not a very good school, academically. Is that true, and confirming....they are not a Tier 1 research university, correct?

Correct. Boise St is in the "R2" status which is basically Tier 2.

 

[chugspig]

Correct. Boise St is in the "R2" status which is basically Tier 2.

Unfortunately w/ Stan and Cal in the mix they will consider things like R1 status and endowment. Boise States endowment is like 150 mil. WSUs for perspective is 1.3 billion, and I believe now 1.4 billion. I don’t think that should be held against their program, but unfortunately w/ academic considerations, it is.

 

[Meister_Rebel]

Unfortunately w/ Stan and Cal in the mix they will consider things like R1 status and endowment. Boise States endowment is like 150 mil. WSUs for perspective is 1.3 billion, and I believe now 1.4 billion. I don’t think that should be held against their program, but unfortunately w/ academic considerations, it is.

Spot on. UNLV's endowment probably isn't that great. I don't know what it is I haven't checked. The thing is in terms of age of most Pac12 schools we are just a baby. 65 years old. But the school growth is incredible. We opened our Medical School in 2017 same as WSU. Last year our medical school campus was built at a cost of near $150 million. It's 100% paid for by local private donors. Our football complex opened 3 years ago at a cost near $40 million. Again paid for by private donations. There are so many good things going on at the school what with the top rated Hospitality program, Dental School, Law School, Architectural school, our School of Public Health (only 75 of those in the world). But, no matter what we are doing if we don't start winning in basketball and football our future in the sports world isn't going anywhere. Things should start turning around this year. Our basketball team with the talent assembled had better see the NCAA tourney. Our football team had better see a bowl game this year where we should be a lot better defensively. Anyway, I would love to be in the same conference with you guys. Since the Pirate was at WSU I've been a fan.

 

[95coug]

Correct. Boise St is in the "R2" status which is basically Tier 2.

And they’re just barely R2, they just got that high a couple years ago. They are nowhere near R1.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

The current admin has tanked WSU's academic standing from 140 in 2018 to 212 in 2023. Embarrassing.

I've asked the question to people if WSU was no longer in P10/P12 if they would consider other options if they were choosing colleges now and most said yes. People that are going to play school, that may not change their decision, but those who want school a bigger athletic culture included too have to weigh their options.

How did they do it specifically?

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Part of that is research funding issues. WSU has historically gotten a ton of research funding from NSF and USDA. A bunch of formerly reliable funding suddenly dried up between 2016-2020 - redirected to other federal priorities, apparently - and hasn’t recovered. They’ve had to shift gears and move more toward DoD and DoE projects. It took some time to learn the new agencies’ processes, people, and politics, and in that time things took a dip. Should start bouncing back in the next couple years.

Part of it is also graduation rates. WSU took a big hit from Covid in kids who got sent home, finished a semester or two online…got a job and have not returned. That blew both year-to-year retention rates and 5-year graduation rates - and blew WSU’s more than most urban schools’. It should cycle out in a few years.

At least, that’s what I’ve heard. If it’s true, WSU should bounce in the ratings in the next 3-4 years…although the height of bounce will likely be impacted by the current conference fiasco.

"A bunch of formerly reliable funding suddenly dried up between 2016-2020 - redirected to other federal priorities"

Orange Man's fault? 😀

 

[VandallHuskerJulie]

I know from first hand experience how wonderful the Wazzu College of Veterinary Medicine is - I don't think it gets enough praise. It may sound trivial if you're not a cat/pet lover, but because of the quality of care and equipment at their disposal they were able to diagnose and treat the heart failure in my cat. He died a year ago, but enjoyed 7 additional years because of the care he received at Wazzu. I'll always be grateful to everyone at the college.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Unfortunately w/ Stan and Cal in the mix they will consider things like R1 status and endowment. Boise States endowment is like 150 mil. WSUs for perspective is 1.3 billion, and I believe now 1.4 billion. I don’t think that should be held against their program, but unfortunately w/ academic considerations, it is.

What's the point of these humongous endowments? Funding notable or special professor salaries?

 

[CougSinceBirth]

How did they do it specifically?

Considering they presided over the major drop, they're at fault. 95Coug did provide some additional insight that I was unfamiliar with though.

 

[chugspig]

Spot on. UNLV's endowment probably isn't that great. I don't know what it is I haven't checked. The thing is in terms of age of most Pac12 schools we are just a baby. 65 years old. But the school growth is incredible. We opened our Medical School in 2017 same as WSU. Last year our medical school campus was built at a cost of near $150 million. It's 100% paid for by local private donors. Our football complex opened 3 years ago at a cost near $40 million. Again paid for by private donations. There are so many good things going on at the school what with the top rated Hospitality program, Dental School, Law School, Architectural school, our School of Public Health (only 75 of those in the world). But, no matter what we are doing if we don't start winning in basketball and football our future in the sports world isn't going anywhere. Things should start turning around this year. Our basketball team with the talent assembled had better see the NCAA tourney. Our football team had better see a bowl game this year where we should be a lot better defensively. Anyway, I would love to be in the same conference with you guys. Since the Pirate was at WSU I've been a fan.

UNLV is about 370million$

 

[Coug90]

I know from first hand experience how wonderful the Wazzu College of Veterinary Medicine is - I don't think it gets enough praise. It may sound trivial if you're not a cat/pet lover, but because of the quality of care and equipment at their disposal they were able to diagnose and treat the heart failure in my cat. He died a year ago, but enjoyed 7 additional years because of the care he received at Wazzu. I'll always be grateful to everyone at the college.

Bravo. One of the things that irks me about the UW attitude of letting WSU burn to the ground…guess what asshole, the vet you entrust the family yorkidoodle’s health to is a WSU vet grad.

 

[95coug]

Bravo. One of the things that irks me about the UW attitude of letting WSU burn to the ground…guess what asshole, the vet you entrust the family yorkidoodle’s health to is a WSU vet grad.

Last I knew, oregon state was right there with us too.

 

[Suudy]

Last I knew, oregon state was right there with us too.

With respect to the vet school? Yeah.

I remember there were some shenanigans w/ the OSU students as part of the WSU/OSU vet school partnership, sometime around '02. Some of the staff at the vet school I knew recognized it as a pretense to break off the partnership.

 

[CougPatrol]

Raise your hand if you marched and protested in defense of the University of Idaho when their Athletic Department was left in the dust.