You wanna know why WSU is struggling???

[Coug95man2]

You can't pick apart a thing with regards to recruiting. It is now history and it is played out. And yes, I will defend Wulff when people continue to trash him.

You know how many threads I have started about Wulff in the time he has been gone? Maybe one. You know how many threads I started about Doba since he has been gone? None.

The proof in terms of recruiting is in the pudding. Feel free to go line by line, player by player.

Proof is in the pudding, huh. While what I'm going to write isn't exactly in response to what you've written above, it is an indicator as to the level of player we've had for quite a while.

Who can guess the number of players WSU has in the NFL? 12. NOT including those that have been picked up other means other than "drafting" this year. Now guess how many WAKE FOREST has… More than us, 15. How about Wyoming? 8. While not beating us, Wyoming shows that even THEY can recruit and develop NFL players. I point these out as comparison.

Can I point out that out of the 12, CML has had a hand in developing 7 (not including MW), Mayle being ALL CML. I'd also say Buccannon is among those that can be seen as all CML. No way Wulff would have developed him the same way. Regardless, can the Wulff people point to this as he was "doing it the right way"? Probably but it's pretty limp on delivery. Can the Leach people point to this as CML came in and developed them, yep. And I steer by boat in that direction. I don't even know if Long would have been the same player, until CML came in. JMHO. He was good, real good. But man he was awesome his last year.

But I can also say, the number of players beyond those seven is sparse. I challenge anyone to look at the list of current players in the NFL and show the "proof in the pudding" that Wulff made an impact on any player enough to be in the NFL. Either they were seniors when he came in, or someone else had to develop his players for the NFL. And for CML to have a hand in developing 7 out of 12 players so that they can enter the NFL, is a pretty decent percentage. Link below is ESPN's list of current players in the NFL. CML has had an impact on the number of players in the NFL, and that's something to take into consideration. Now look at the current roster and we can see a few that we all know will go, as well.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/w

 

[95coug]

Why did he replace the kids he "purged" with WORSE behavioral offenders?

That's a bad purge, there.

Unfortunately, half of his recruits self-purged...before they ever even came to campus.

 

[spongebob11]

Proof is in the pudding, huh. While what I'm going to write isn't exactly in response to what you've written above, it is an indicator as to the level of player we've had for quite a while.

Who can guess the number of players WSU has in the NFL? 12. NOT including those that have been picked up other means other than "drafting" this year. Now guess how many WAKE FOREST has… More than us, 15. How about Wyoming? 8. While not beating us, Wyoming shows that even THEY can recruit and develop NFL players. I point these out as comparison.

Can I point out that out of the 12, CML has had a hand in developing 7 (not including MW), Mayle being ALL CML. I'd also say Buccannon is among those that can be seen as all CML. No way Wulff would have developed him the same way. Regardless, can the Wulff people point to this as he was "doing it the right way"? Probably but it's pretty limp on delivery. Can the Leach people point to this as CML came in and developed them, yep. And I steer by boat in that direction. I don't even know if Long would have been the same player, until CML came in. JMHO. He was good, real good. But man he was awesome his last year.

But I can also say, the number of players beyond those seven is sparse. I challenge anyone to look at the list of current players in the NFL and show the "proof in the pudding" that Wulff made an impact on any player enough to be in the NFL. Either they were seniors when he came in, or someone else had to develop his players for the NFL. And for CML to have a hand in developing 7 out of 12 players so that they can enter the NFL, is a pretty decent percentage. Link below is ESPN's list of current players in the NFL. CML has had an impact on the number of players in the NFL, and that's something to take into consideration. Now look at the current roster and we can see a few that we all know will go, as well.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/w

I quit reading when you said Buchanon was all on Leach.

Buchanon was an impact player since the day he stepped on the field. Even my UW buddy said his frosh yr he would go to the league if he added some size.

Further, you do realize that Leach doesn't coach the dB's, right?

And that the guy who supposedly developed Deonne just got fired, right?

 

[Coug95man2]

I quit reading when you said Buchanon was all on Leach.

Buchanon was an impact player since the day he stepped on the field. Even my UW buddy said his frosh yr he would go to the league if he added some size.

Further, you do realize that Leach doesn't coach the dB's, right?

And that the guy who supposedly developed Deonne just got fired, right?

So because CML is the head coach, he isn't responsible for any other portion of the team? Lets start with the "hiring/firing aspect, first. Regarding the DB coach, CML hired him. Yeah, he fired him, too. So… ? Leach also didn't hire the guy the guy that was the strength and conditioning coach? Buch didn't completely re-define himself his last year?! Have you looked at his body development?! Whatever, Sponge.

 

[dgibbons]

I quit reading when you said Buchanon was all on Leach.

Buchanon was an impact player since the day he stepped on the field. Even my UW buddy said his frosh yr he would go to the league if he added some size.

Further, you do realize that Leach doesn't coach the dB's, right?

And that the guy who supposedly developed Deonne just got fired, right?

The guy that coached the DBs before Breske got fired too. The only WSU football coach I can think of that had never been fired before his loss of innocence was Wulff.

If you recruit 100 guys, chances are you'll find some guys that can play. So will Nevada, Utah State, SDSU, and every other school. Looking at draft picks only is a nonsensical comparison. Wulff's empty locker stalls can't make it to the league, or make it onto the field in Pullman.

 

[dgibbons]

So because CML is the head coach, he isn't responsible for any other portion of the team? Lets start with the "hiring/firing aspect, first. Regarding the DB coach, CML hired him. Yeah, he fired him, too. So… ? Leach also didn't hire the guy the guy that was the strength and conditioning coach? Buch didn't completely re-define himself his last year?! Have you looked at his body development?! Whatever, Sponge.

The strength and conditioning program is as different as night and day from the previous regime.

 

[Coug95man2]

The guy that coached the DBs before Breske got fired too. The only WSU football coach I can think of that had never been fired before his loss of innocence was Wulff.

If you recruit 100 guys, chances are you'll find some guys that can play. So will Nevada, Utah State, SDSU, and every other school. Looking at draft picks only is a nonsensical comparison. Wulff's empty locker stalls can't make it to the league, or make it onto the field in Pullman.

Your point to "any squirrel can find a nut every once in a while" is the complete reason I brought up Wyoming.

 

[spongebob11]

So because CML is the head coach, he isn't responsible for any other portion of the team? Lets start with the "hiring/firing aspect, first. Regarding the DB coach, CML hired him. Yeah, he fired him, too. So… ? Leach also didn't hire the guy the guy that was the strength and conditioning coach? Buch didn't completely re-define himself his last year?! Have you looked at his body development?! Whatever, Sponge.

I'm just pointing out your statement that Deone's success was all Leach is absolutely ridiculous when he was one of the best players on D his 1st two years..if not the best

 

[spongebob11]

The guy that coached the DBs before Breske got fired too. The only WSU football coach I can think of that had never been fired before his loss of innocence was Wulff.

If you recruit 100 guys, chances are you'll find some guys that can play. So will Nevada, Utah State, SDSU, and every other school. Looking at draft picks only is a nonsensical comparison. Wulff's empty locker stalls can't make it to the league, or make it onto the field in Pullman.

So Ball was fired by his head coach at WSU at the end of a season,huh?

Interesting

 

[dgibbons]

So Ball was fired by his head coach at WSU at the end of a season,huh?

Interesting

No. Do you bother reading before you reply?

 

[95coug]

Proof is in the pudding, huh. While what I'm going to write isn't exactly in response to what you've written above, it is an indicator as to the level of player we've had for quite a while.

Who can guess the number of players WSU has in the NFL? 12. NOT including those that have been picked up other means other than "drafting" this year. Now guess how many WAKE FOREST has… More than us, 15. How about Wyoming? 8. While not beating us, Wyoming shows that even THEY can recruit and develop NFL players. I point these out as comparison.

Can I point out that out of the 12, CML has had a hand in developing 7 (not including MW), Mayle being ALL CML. I'd also say Buccannon is among those that can be seen as all CML. No way Wulff would have developed him the same way. Regardless, can the Wulff people point to this as he was "doing it the right way"? Probably but it's pretty limp on delivery. Can the Leach people point to this as CML came in and developed them, yep. And I steer by boat in that direction. I don't even know if Long would have been the same player, until CML came in. JMHO. He was good, real good. But man he was awesome his last year.

But I can also say, the number of players beyond those seven is sparse. I challenge anyone to look at the list of current players in the NFL and show the "proof in the pudding" that Wulff made an impact on any player enough to be in the NFL. Either they were seniors when he came in, or someone else had to develop his players for the NFL. And for CML to have a hand in developing 7 out of 12 players so that they can enter the NFL, is a pretty decent percentage. Link below is ESPN's list of current players in the NFL. CML has had an impact on the number of players in the NFL, and that's something to take into consideration. Now look at the current roster and we can see a few that we all know will go, as well.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/w

Looking a bit closer at those 12 players:

Abdullah, Pitoitua, and Collins finished in 2007 under Doba. They never played a down for Wulff.

Gibson probably would have been drafted higher if he left as a junior, never playing for Wulff. He's a Doba product too.

Bucannon and FUllington made their major improvements under Leach. Doesn't matter who recruited them, Leach made them NFL players.

Cooper never played a down for Wulff. He redshirted in 2011.

Mayle is all Leach

Tuel and Long had only their senior seasons under Leach. I'd argue that they had their best seasons under Leach too, but that can be debated - especially in Tuel's case.

Furney doesn't count toward anyone. His career was split between them, but really, as a kicker you've either got the leg or you don't....it's tough to give credit to an HC.

Final count:
Doba - 4
Wulff - 3 (Although really, I think Wilsson is the only one you can't argue for Leach...and honestly, I don't think Wulff did much either - Wilsson had talent, so Wulff resorted to the "throw it up " offense
Leach - 4
Nobody - 1

 

[spongebob11]

So Ball was fired by his head coach at WSU at the end of a season,huh?

Interesting

Yes. You were equating Ball to getting fired(as part of a whole staff that got fired) to Breske getting fired. Not the same thing no matter how much spin you put on it.

 

[Coug95man2]

Looking a bit closer at those 12 players:

Abdullah, Pitoitua, and Collins finished in 2007 under Doba. They never played a down for Wulff.

Gibson probably would have been drafted higher if he left as a junior, never playing for Wulff. He's a Doba product too.

Bucannon and FUllington made their major improvements under Leach. Doesn't matter who recruited them, Leach made them NFL players.

Cooper never played a down for Wulff. He redshirted in 2011.

Mayle is all Leach

Tuel and Long had only their senior seasons under Leach. I'd argue that they had their best seasons under Leach too, but that can be debated - especially in Tuel's case.

Furney doesn't count toward anyone. His career was split between them, but really, as a kicker you've either got the leg or you don't....it's tough to give credit to an HC.

Final count:
Doba - 4
Wulff - 3 (Although really, I think Wilsson is the only one you can't argue for Leach...and honestly, I don't think Wulff did much either - Wilsson had talent, so Wulff resorted to the "throw it up " offense
Leach - 4
Nobody - 1

I think your more accurate point, was my general point. Parse them out however you want, Leach has produced more NFL products with his development. I also believe there are NFL products on the roster, right now. That's worth pointing out. He's raising the bar, IMHO

 

[BiggsCoug]

You can't pick apart a thing with regards to recruiting. It is now history and it is played out. And yes, I will defend Wulff when people continue to trash him.

You know how many threads I have started about Wulff in the time he has been gone? Maybe one. You know how many threads I started about Doba since he has been gone? None.

The proof in terms of recruiting is in the pudding. Feel free to go line by line, player by player.

Do you know how many threads you've hijacked and redirected about Coach D and Coach T? All of them. You are a burden on WW. Time to move on to something else that few will agree with you on.

 

[Coug1990]

I think your more accurate point, was my general point. Parse them out however you want, Leach has produced more NFL products with his development. I also believe there are NFL products on the roster, right now. That's worth pointing out. He's raising the bar, IMHO

This goes back to a point I have been making. Doba's time looks worse because a disastrous Wulff took over for him. We all know that both offensive and defensive players played much, much worse in 2008 than they did in 2007.

Leach's teams, whether it was as an assistant or head coach, always played better the next season, except at WSU. Yet, people still want to blame Leach. What is more likely, both Doba and Leach have underwhelmed, or just Wulff underwhelmed?

 

[CougEd]

Maybe not a direct statement but I would assume most high school coaches would give some sort of indication if they believed there were off field issues or a potential risk. Having a grow operation as the first indicator of off field issues seems a little far fetched.

Well Save...well you would think Mike Price would have been a little more forthright in selling Ryan Leaf. Beathard went on ESPN and said if he knew what he was getting he would have never drafted Ryan Leaf and that "his college coach was not forthcoming". Again, do I think Bellevue's coaches told Wulff or anyone else who recruited him that JA was a bad seed? Nope, I don't believe that in a minute.

 

[wulffui]

They were probably only growing because their minister told them it was the only way to save the youth rec center from becoming a strip mall.

 

[CougEd]

Proof is in the pudding, huh. While what I'm going to write isn't exactly in response to what you've written above, it is an indicator as to the level of player we've had for quite a while.

Who can guess the number of players WSU has in the NFL? 12. NOT including those that have been picked up other means other than "drafting" this year. Now guess how many WAKE FOREST has… More than us, 15. How about Wyoming? 8. While not beating us, Wyoming shows that even THEY can recruit and develop NFL players. I point these out as comparison.

Can I point out that out of the 12, CML has had a hand in developing 7 (not including MW), Mayle being ALL CML. I'd also say Buccannon is among those that can be seen as all CML. No way Wulff would have developed him the same way. Regardless, can the Wulff people point to this as he was "doing it the right way"? Probably but it's pretty limp on delivery. Can the Leach people point to this as CML came in and developed them, yep. And I steer by boat in that direction. I don't even know if Long would have been the same player, until CML came in. JMHO. He was good, real good. But man he was awesome his last year.

But I can also say, the number of players beyond those seven is sparse. I challenge anyone to look at the list of current players in the NFL and show the "proof in the pudding" that Wulff made an impact on any player enough to be in the NFL. Either they were seniors when he came in, or someone else had to develop his players for the NFL. And for CML to have a hand in developing 7 out of 12 players so that they can enter the NFL, is a pretty decent percentage. Link below is ESPN's list of current players in the NFL. CML has had an impact on the number of players in the NFL, and that's something to take into consideration. Now look at the current roster and we can see a few that we all know will go, as well.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/college/_/letter/w

Cougman...you do get "leach" does not coach DB's. You also get that Leach wanted the guy who "didn't develop" Leach and was fired in Ball. Ball has more guys in the NFL than the guy who you are crediting in Breske, his position coach. And you saw the "development" of young DB's in 2014 that gave up worse numbers than they did in 2009.

As for who gets credit, you can develop a kid all you want, if he does not have talent enough to make it in the NFL. Why wasn't Bluhm, Hamel, Evans, and other not developed into NFL talent.

Yes, I fully believe if Ball chose to stay on the staff Buchanon would have developed just the same.

As Biggs loves to say you cant make chickens salad out of chicken sh^t. If Cooper, Long, Fullington, and the like clearly had some NFL potential. You think McGuire is a better line coach that Steve Morton. I would put Morton's ability to get players to the NFL with the top end line coaches in the country

 

[CougEd]

This goes back to a point I have been making. Doba's time looks worse because a disastrous Wulff took over for him. We all know that both offensive and defensive players played much, much worse in 2008 than they did in 2007.

Leach's teams, whether it was as an assistant or head coach, always played better the next season, except at WSU. Yet, people still want to blame Leach. What is more likely, both Doba and Leach have underwhelmed, or just Wulff underwhelmed?

Except at WSU where Leach himself had a worse record than the guy before him.

 

[CougEd]

They were probably only growing because their minister told them it was the only way to save the youth rec center from becoming a strip mall.

Again, point me to any article, any source, a teacher, a coach, a counselor at the school who knew and told potential suitors he was a problem kid. Start with King County...tell me if they have a record of him getting in trouble as a youth.

 

[CougEd]

Do you know how many threads you've hijacked and redirected about Coach D and Coach T? All of them. You are a burden on WW. Time to move on to something else that few will agree with you on.

Right....you mean the one about Leach being over paid where someone else brought up Wulff. That person hijacked it. Not me. Just adding my two cents. You know...take your own advice and don't read it. There's an ignore button. Yaki and Dgibs have been following me around like a dog in heat. I made a commitment not to respond to any direct interaction with them for 6 months. When they jump my posts I ignore it. May I suggest the same with you?

 

[wulffui]

Again, point me to any article, any source, a teacher, a coach, a counselor at the school who knew and told potential suitors he was a problem kid. Start with King County...tell me if they have a record of him getting in trouble as a youth.

That's not my job. It's the job of the person who researched them and decided they'd fit the team, and chose to offer them a scholarship, when no other Pac 10 program was doing so. Also, requesting I try to find juvenile records for two kids who, DEFINITELY, wound up doing something bad, seems redundant at best. But googling Atofau is amusing, and sad.

 

[CougEd]

Looking a bit closer at those 12 players:

Abdullah, Pitoitua, and Collins finished in 2007 under Doba. They never played a down for Wulff.

Gibson probably would have been drafted higher if he left as a junior, never playing for Wulff. He's a Doba product too.

Bucannon and FUllington made their major improvements under Leach. Doesn't matter who recruited them, Leach made them NFL players.

Cooper never played a down for Wulff. He redshirted in 2011.

Mayle is all Leach

Tuel and Long had only their senior seasons under Leach. I'd argue that they had their best seasons under Leach too, but that can be debated - especially in Tuel's case.

Furney doesn't count toward anyone. His career was split between them, but really, as a kicker you've either got the leg or you don't....it's tough to give credit to an HC.

Final count:
Doba - 4
Wulff - 3 (Although really, I think Wilsson is the only one you can't argue for Leach...and honestly, I don't think Wulff did much either - Wilsson had talent, so Wulff resorted to the "throw it up " offense
Leach - 4
Nobody - 1

You do understand that if you don't sign them, and you sign players with less upside they don't develop into NFL hopefulls. And we don't know if Ball could have worked the same magic Breske, who was fired could with Buchanon. I would seem to think so because of Balls history at every stop getting kids drafted.

Also, who did McGuire even coach let develop before he worked at WSU along the offensive line? He never coached the position before. Steve Morton coached at WSU, ISU, UW, Stanford, and USC. I would be willing to guess he "developed" probably 15-20 lineman in the NFL. But as talented as he was at developing them, if they didn't have the talent no matter how much he developed them they weren't going to make an NFL roster.

 

[Coug1990]

That's not my job. It's the job of the person who researched them and decided they'd fit the team, and chose to offer them a scholarship, when no other Pac 10 program was doing so. Also, requesting I try to find juvenile records for two kids who, DEFINITELY, wound up doing something bad, seems redundant at best. But googling Atofau is amusing, and sad.

Like Calvin Schmidtke?

 

[Coug1990]

You do understand that if you don't sign them, and you sign players with less upside they don't develop into NFL hopefulls. And we don't know if Ball could have worked the same magic Breske, who was fired could with Buchanon. I would seem to think so because of Balls history at every stop getting kids drafted.

Also, who did McGuire even coach let develop before he worked at WSU along the offensive line? He never coached the position before. Steve Morton coached at WSU, ISU, UW, Stanford, and USC. I would be willing to guess he "developed" probably 15-20 lineman in the NFL. But as talented as he was at developing them, if they didn't have the talent no matter how much he developed them they weren't going to make an NFL roster.

Do you think Dennis Erickson is still the same coach now, as he was when he was winning NC's or top 5 in the Polls? What about that he was good enough to get two NFL head coaching gigs?

Morton's time had passed him by and it did not help that he could not walk. Hurt recruiting and showing technique. What surprised me was Ball. He was good his first go round at WSU. Maybe it was because he was spread too thin with the DC duties or he needed another defensive coach over him like he has at ASU. Either way or something else, his time under Wulff was decidedly underwhelming.

 

[SaveFerris]

Well Save...well you would think Mike Price would have been a little more forthright in selling Ryan Leaf. Beathard went on ESPN and said if he knew what he was getting he would have never drafted Ryan Leaf and that "his college coach was not forthcoming". Again, do I think Bellevue's coaches told Wulff or anyone else who recruited him that JA was a bad seed? Nope, I don't believe that in a minute.

Price was quoted many times saying he indicated to anyone who asked that Leaf was not ready for the NFL.

 

[CougEd]

Do you think Dennis Erickson is still the same coach now, as he was when he was winning NC's or top 5 in the Polls? What about that he was good enough to get two NFL head coaching gigs?

Morton's time had passed him by and it did not help that he could not walk. Hurt recruiting and showing technique. What surprised me was Ball. He was good his first go round at WSU. Maybe it was because he was spread too thin with the DC duties or he needed another defensive coach over him like he has at ASU. Either way or something else, his time under Wulff was decidedly underwhelming.

If you don't have talent that is why it is "underwhelming". You and I have no idea what they brought to the table other than their resume. People don't forget how to coach. They screw up in recruiting. Morton was effective for the talent he had. Same for Ball. And Leach and ASU thought enough of his "underwhelming" work that they both offered him a position.

 

[dgibbons]

Except at WSU where Leach himself had a worse record than the guy before him.

What?

 

[wulffui]

If you don't have talent that is why it is "underwhelming". You and I have no idea what they brought to the table other than their resume. People don't forget how to coach. They screw up in recruiting. Morton was effective for the talent he had. Same for Ball. And Leach and ASU thought enough of his "underwhelming" work that they both offered him a position.

Didn't all of Doba's guys get Etheredge, and Morton wasn't there till it was CPW guys?

Just sayin'...

 

[CougEd]

Price was quoted many times saying he indicated to anyone who asked that Leaf was not ready for the NFL.

I am sure Mike and Mike have a Podcast of it. It certainly wasn't the information that Beathard was given in direct talks with his college coach.

 

[dgibbons]

You do understand that if you don't sign them, and you sign players with less upside they don't develop into NFL hopefulls. And we don't know if Ball could have worked the same magic Breske, who was fired could with Buchanon. I would seem to think so because of Balls history at every stop getting kids drafted.

Also, who did McGuire even coach let develop before he worked at WSU along the offensive line? He never coached the position before. Steve Morton coached at WSU, ISU, UW, Stanford, and USC. I would be willing to guess he "developed" probably 15-20 lineman in the NFL. But as talented as he was at developing them, if they didn't have the talent no matter how much he developed them they weren't going to make an NFL roster.

S this kind of like not signing Asante Cleveland or Brian Baucham, but you still crediting Wulff for his magic eye for talent?

 

[CougEd]

Didn'

Didn't all of Doba's guys get Etheredge, and Morton wasn't there till it was CPW guys?

Just sayin'...

t all of Wulff's guys get Breske until ....

Didn't all of Doba's guys get Etheredge, and Morton wasn't there till it was CPW guys?

Just sayin'...

Yeah and all of Wulff's guys got Breske, Volero and Russell...and BTW, Ayers, Lesuma, Rowland, Frietag all had injires, three had career ending injuries and one played in how many games in 2008 where his back was bothering him. So if your argument is that the two that were left, Alfred and Hannam didn't develop, I would argue that Alfred was steady Eddie and Hannam regressed.

 

[SaveFerris]

I am sure Mike and Mike have a Podcast of it. It certainly wasn't the information that Beathard was given in direct talks with his college coach.

C'mon, how would either one of us really know that information? As originally posted, coaches might not directly answer the question because it's their player but typically I would think they indicate in some way if a player had off field stuff. Leaf's off field stuff would have been easy to track down anyway. Ask a few people, ask a couple of frat houses, talk to local police in Pullman and Montana. For Beathard to blame anyone other than the Chargers is ridiculous.

 

[Coug1990]

If you don't have talent that is why it is "underwhelming". You and I have no idea what they brought to the table other than their resume. People don't forget how to coach. They screw up in recruiting. Morton was effective for the talent he had. Same for Ball. And Leach and ASU thought enough of his "underwhelming" work that they both offered him a position.

Leach was trying to put together a staff from scratch. Graham hired him, but he does not even completely coach the DB's, Graham is highly involved.

Coaches do not forget, but sometimes their message does not resonate anymore. Or, they just do not try as hard as they once did. Could be a number of reasons. What most of us do know, not including you, was that Wulff was a complete disaster. His regime has tarnished both Doba and Leach.

 

[Coug1990]

Didn'

t all of Wulff's guys get Breske until ....

Yeah and all of Wulff's guys got Breske, Volero and Russell...and BTW, Ayers, Lesuma, Rowland, Frietag all had injires, three had career ending injuries and one played in how many games in 2008 where his back was bothering him. So if your argument is that the two that were left, Alfred and Hannam didn't develop, I would argue that Alfred was steady Eddie and Hannam regressed.

Vaughn Lesuma started 11 games his senior season in 2008. Andrew Roxas was another lineman who played a lot in 2007 and started the majority of games in 2008. Add in Hannam, Alfred, Reed Lesuma., etc and Wulff inherited a much better line than Leach did. But, why let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

 

[Coug1990]

C'mon, how would either one of us really know that information? As originally posted, coaches might not directly answer the question because it's their player but typically I would think they indicate in some way if a player had off field stuff. Leaf's off field stuff would have been easy to track down anyway. Ask a few people, ask a couple of frat houses, talk to local police in Pullman and Montana. For Beathard to blame anyone other than the Chargers is ridiculous.

Ah the blame game. NFL coaches and executives always want to take credit and shift blame.

 

[CougEd]

Leach was trying to put together a staff from scratch. Graham hired him, but he does not even completely coach the DB's, Graham is highly involved.

Coaches do not forget, but sometimes their message does not resonate anymore. Or, they just do not try as hard as they once did. Could be a number of reasons. What most of us do know, not including you, was that Wulff was a complete disaster. His regime has tarnished both Doba and Leach.

Well diminish what you think of Balls work, but the fact Leach wanted him, and that is a fact, tells me one of two things. Our coach doesn't know what he is doing and didn't consult you, or you may not be correct in your opinion. I will go with the latter. Doba tarnished his own legacy by deviating what worked at WSU and how they went about recruiting. As he had said several times, we got too big for our britches. The fact he didn't recruit well meant the next guy whoever it was was going to really suffer. You don't win Pac 10 games with JT Levy at QB. Or Cole Morgan. Great kids, perfect for another level, but not quality QB's. Halliday and Tuel, shown to at least have some upside.

 

[Coug1990]

Well diminish what you think of Balls work, but the fact Leach wanted him, and that is a fact, tells me one of two things. Our coach doesn't know what he is doing and didn't consult you, or you may not be correct in your opinion. I will go with the latter. Doba tarnished his own legacy by deviating what worked at WSU and how they went about recruiting. As he had said several times, we got too big for our britches. The fact he didn't recruit well meant the next guy whoever it was was going to really suffer. You don't win Pac 10 games with JT Levy at QB. Or Cole Morgan. Great kids, perfect for another level, but not quality QB's. Halliday and Tuel, shown to at least have some upside.

Leach also hired and fired Volero and Russell. What does that tell you? Do you think that Pete Carroll is a good coach? He fired his first offensive coordinator at Seattle after one year. Tom Cable is his third offensive line coach. You make hires, sometimes you are wrong. No, Doba only deviated from what Price did in your mind. Same offense, but play calling was different.

 

[spongebob11]

Leach also hired and fired Volero and Russell. What does that tell you? Do you think that Pete Carroll is a good coach? He fired his first offensive coordinator at Seattle after one year. Tom Cable is his third offensive line coach. You make hires, sometimes you are wrong. No, Doba only deviated from what Price did in your mind. Same offense, but play calling was different.

No, their recruiting strategy was totally different.

 

[CougEd]

Vaughn Lesuma started 11 games his senior season in 2008. Andrew Roxas was another lineman who played a lot in 2007 and started the majority of games in 2008. Add in Hannam, Alfred, Reed Lesuma., etc and Wulff inherited a much better line than Leach did. But, why let the facts get in the way of your narrative.

Wow...how many gamnes did

Leach also hired and fired Volero and Russell. What does that tell you? Do you think that Pete Carroll is a good coach? He fired his first offensive coordinator at Seattle after one year. Tom Cable is his third offensive line coach. You make hires, sometimes you are wrong. No, Doba only deviated from what Price did in your mind. Same offense, but play calling was different.

Funny...read an article in the Seattle Times dated 12/13 2013. You can google doba and too big for your britches as well and you will see that he things he change his recruiting. And by changing the play calling and taking out the big play, and thus forcing the team to go 80 yards on 8 plays, that is changing the offense.

Yes, I agree with what you are saying about Pete Carroll and Mike Leach getting rid of coaches that werent a good fit. What is funny, you don't have that same "understanding" when Wulff changed out Etheridge for Morton, or Nikekamp for Tormey, or Roberson for the UCLA Dline coach. Sounds like Wulff did exactly what Leach and Carroll did. Evaluated then after they had appropriate amount of time with the player.

Lesuma missed I believe all of fall camp with a back injury and missed his first game. Reed Lesuma had how much playing experience? I am not changing the narrative, You said they had four returning starteers. They had three. One had a back problem and played in 11 games. When you miss fall ball and the first game you aren't 100%. Never said Roxas didn't have experience. But why was the walkon from Colfax playing. Why did they start Pencer and the freshman? If your complaint is Reed Lesuma, then you and i will never be on the same page. They had a ton of injuries on the line. I have said IF Rowlands stuck around, if Lesuma was healthy, then in 2008 that line was certainly above what Leach inherited for that year. The problem is they weren't healthy. And teh problem is they didn't have any young kids coming up.