It will be interesting to see what the media deal will be worth and who the eighth member will be.

Loyal Coug1 said:

Wow. I call complete BS on this entire article. First, McCoy gives a complete blah blah statement. "will operationalize a budget structure for each of our programs" . WTF does that even mean? Operationalize? Is that even a word?

Then it goes to McCoy's January statement, that "WSU will allocate $4.5M for football revenue-sharing, McCoy said in January, indicating that number also includes scholarships."

OK, so how does that jive with the Athletics budget that I presented in the other thread? Scholarships are budgeted to go up $.7M. So in other words, the $4.5M number from January translates into basically $-0- for FY 25-26.

Thank Gawd the Omnipotent and Mighty Loyal One is also a Zeus-like accountant so that he can shower his knowledge and BS meter on the huddled masses here on WW.

Oh, also, as of today, we are 9 players above the 105 player limit? $5 sez the 9 will all be (Pre-CJR) Cougs. WTF. School starts in 2+ months.

"As of Saturday, the Cougars’ football team is slated to have 114 players for the upcoming season, nine over the roster limits of 105, which are part of the House settlement. That includes 75 players listed on the summer roster, 26 incoming freshmen and 13 transfer players"

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Exactly what I thought when I read that article. Along with programmatic autonomy. I hate it when people pull out a word from deep in the Oxford dictionary in order to try to make people think they are smart. We ain't falling for that shit! Listen up, folks-you don't need to write at a second grade level but you can be a more effective communicator using basic words in common usage, and not throwing in words that 99.99% of people have never heard before. All it does is make you look like you are trying too hard.

Kind of a funny story from Boeing days. Back before our buildings were on computers, they were on big gridded mylar sheets showing walls, stairs, furniture, etc at 1/8" scale. All organizations paid monthly Use and Occupancy fees (essentially rent) that we had to track and recalculate any time an organization grew, shrunk, or relocated. It was a pain in the butt to do and long ago somebody made an 8.5x11 gridded transparent sheet that you could overlay onto a building's master and use to immediately find out the square footage of a room. It was quite handy to use and the guy submitted his idea through the company Suggestion System to get rewarded for the time saved by all the project administrators doing their work. He called the sheet a Totalizer, since it quickly showed the total area of a room. Makes good sense, right? Nope! They turned the idea down, no award for him. So he waited a while and submitted the idea again, this time calling it a Totalizationizerator! I kid you not. And guess what? This time he did receive an award for the idea, as he should have.

I often think of this when I see one of those off the wall words or phrases being used, thinking the author is trying to come up with their own version of Totalizationizerator. It doesn't impress me when they do that.

95coug said:

They can't even agree on their own budget, how are they going to manage 100+ colleges?

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Congress needs another unrelated distraction to keep them from doing their jobs when they aren’t on vacation.

UberCougars said:

Why stop at Pro- Minor league football?

The US Congress should negotiate every professional contract of every college.

They could easily find the time by cutting down on a few vacation weeks

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They can't even agree on their own budget, how are they going to manage 100+ colleges?

One of my job duties involves coordinating with the local transit. Through that I've learned that most people won't walk more than 1/4 mile to a bus stop. Not very many will walk 1/3 of a mile, and practically nobody will walk 1/2 mile.

Based on that, I'd say walking distance is something less than 1/4 mile.

However, it's a question of motivation. When I was a student, I walked from Shermers to my house on Military hill. Also from Shermers to Dennys. And when I was in Pullman in September, I walked from Residence Inn to New Garden, via the Coug.

Why stop at Pro- Minor league football?

The US Congress should negotiate every professional contract of every college, in every sport, at every school.

And why stop there! The US Congress needs to negotiate every nil deal, media contract, advertisement rates, schedules, concession offerings at stadiums, and viewership of each game.

They could easily find the time by cutting down on a few vacation weeks.

BleedCrimsonandGray said:

RV park in Pullman is advertising "walking distance".

Its about 2 miles and due to terrain and roads, maps has it at 45 minutes to walk.

Is this "walking distance"?

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No.

When Sterk was organizing his RV-in-a-field concept before Golf Course Prez nixed it, he had a sponsored shuttle service lined up.

WSU has some very deep pocket, capable alums but Moos/Chun/McCoy couldn’t make the business case for those alums to write the check we would all like to see.

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So how tight are the "Grant of Rights" if the Big 12 (or even ACC) offers a membership slot to a WSU, OSU, Boise State or San Diego State?

Those schools can't leave the Pac-12 or must pay an arm or a leg to do so?

Can't imagine Ann McCoy or the new president would be that short-sighted

CougSinceBirth said:

There's a ton of other sh*t in this world to fix and college athletics takes Congress priority? F*cking stupid.

At this point, let college athletics burn to the ground and reap what they have sowed.

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Every Big-10 and SEC market who loves their football wants this regulated. This will pass very easily is my bet.

There's a ton of other sh*t in this world to fix and college athletics takes Congress priority? F*cking stupid.

At this point, let college athletics burn to the ground and reap what they have sowed.

PeteTheChop said:

@95coug ... But what does the recent past and current trajectory of WSU Football look like if Mr. Moos (with Dr. Floyd's blessing) doesn't max out the company credit card for that $165M-plus spending spree a decade ago?

WSU cracked the Top 20 in 7 of the past 10 seasons during that span. The majority of FBS schools would be proud to have that sort of gridiron legacy

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Well, we got left behind even with the facilities, so if we didn't have them...no change. For performance and recruiting...hard to say. The impact of landing Mike Leach probably had a more visible impact on both...but having the facilities certainly also helped close the deal with some recruits.

In the moment, it was probably the right move. But we got burned on it because of Larry Scott's incompetence.

ttowncoug said:

There is money on the west side, not tapped into.

This boat was parked in Gig Harbor, over the weekend, with a WSU flag and an Auburn flag. It's a 164 feet.

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https://www.superyachttimes.com/yachts/seanash/overview

I suspect the guy might be buddies with Beckel - who I think still has a house on the water - but the point is, we have cash over here, and if we have alums with cash to have Super Yachts coming over, with a WSU flag repping, we need to do more stuff closer to them.

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Need to go all Somali pirate and tell him who is the captain now until he writes a fat check to WSU.

Observer11 said:

That would be a great FCS conference.

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That would put them at 17, so they should pick up San Jose State too. Or Nevada. Either one fits with UC-Davis and Sac State.

95coug said:

I agree with the last point, and I'm never really on board with the idea of spending based on speculative revenue, so wasn't really comfortable with the moves at the time. But, Moos and Floyd really wanted to believe what Larry Scott was selling, so they did...even if it all seemed a little too good to be true, and was.

Total tangent, but the same thing is happening where I live. The city has started a large development project, funded by what they call "tax increment financing." Basically, they're building infrastructure for a development, with the theory that they'll pay back the money using increased property tax revenues that will be realized once the property is developed. So not only are they spending money they don't have, but they're committing future revenues for an unknown duration...whether the development actually happens or not. Nothing can go wrong there, right?

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All that was on Larry Scott and overpromising and underdelivering. WSU was so far behind back then in terms of facilities.

We will be, in about 2 weeks, so far behind so many schools from a revenue sharing, paying your football players perspective.

How many good players are going to pass over a free school plus say, $8k per month in a stipend to play football, to go to WSU and receive nothing in terms of cash compensation? The kid getting $8K, can also earn whatever they earn in additional NIL money. Now it has to be "legit" and pass through the clearinghouse.

Basic math, I'm suggesting WSU needs a min of $10M in football revenue sharing to even stay close. That would put around $100K on the table to around 100 players. Some get more, some get less.

I also put the basketball number at $4M. Let's say we want to rev share $1M to women's sports, so let's say we need $15M in new money to WSU for revenue sharing. That is the task: get $15M of new money into WSU. No excuses, figure it out.

Again, where is McCoy at?

Where is the rally call?

Where is the vision?

We are simply being complacent and saying, "she's a care taker, give her a break T-Town." That's BS.

She took the job, she knows the hole we are in, she needs to lead us out of this mess. There isn't any other choice then leading us out of the mess. If she's not willing to lead us to where we need to go, resign or retire.

More from ESPN today re: revenue sharing with players:

• "ACC commissioner Jim Phillips, who spoke Monday on a Zoom news conference (about the House Settlement) with fellow commissioners Greg Sankey (SEC), Tony Petitti (Big Ten), Brett Yormark (Big 12) and Teresa Gould (Pac-12)." Encouraging to see the big boys are including Mrs. Gould at the table.
• "The annual cap is expected to start at $20.5 million per school in 2025-26 and increase every year during the decade-long deal. Those payments will be in addition to scholarships and other benefits the athletes already receive." How much (if any) will that impact Ann McCoy's budgeting process?

95coug said:

I agree with the last point, and I'm never really on board with the idea of spending based on speculative revenue, so wasn't really comfortable with the moves at the time. But, Moos and Floyd really wanted to believe what Larry Scott was selling, so they did...even if it all seemed a little too good to be true, and was.

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@95coug ... But what does the recent past and current trajectory of WSU Football look like if Mr. Moos (with Dr. Floyd's blessing) doesn't max out the company credit card for that $165M-plus spending spree a decade ago?

WSU cracked the Top 20 in 7 of the past 10 seasons during that span. The majority of FBS schools would be proud to have that sort of gridiron legacy

BleedCrimsonandGray said:

They made money.

Did it move the needle? No. Portland at the biggest was barely eclipsed 6 figures. I'm sure Seattle was more (it was but I can't remember the numbers).

What it did do was make a couple of hundred WSU fans feel important and included, and more likely to open their pocket book throughout the year(s). The events were growing in attendance and revenue before they inexplicably shut them down. My gut feeling was the AD staff responsible simply didn't want to put in the effort for not a ton of revenue, while completely disregarding the goodwill and loyalty they were building within the fanbase. Not to mention (again) that they treated their volunteers like shit towards the end, but pissed and moaned about having too much work to do.

I'm a firm believer in the events. They can and should be volunteer driven, with swoop in appearances by the WSU folks to kiss babies and shake hands. Not only do you maximize profits this way, you increase the efficiency with which the event gets planned. We had a good thing rolling until WSU AD staff decided they needed to run all aspects of the events, mostly from Pullman by the way.

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I'm willing to accept every word of that...but I'll point out that - at least from a development perspective - goodwill and loyalty are pretty useless unless they're accompanied by a check.

As for the 'mostly from Pullman' part....that has been the trend for several years. Schulz' "One WSU" model was a candy coated version of saying 'everything Pullman's way.' I've been hoping that would disappear with him, and it appears that the terminology has, but the sentiment remains...and there are conflicting indications from the new president on whether those things will get better or worse.

Loyal Coug1 said:

Ok, in order:

We know that the $4.5M figure that McCoy threw out in January is BS, because the FY 25-26 budget, just approved by the Regents. has no such line item or increase to other line items in it. Fact. So while she may have thought her statement was true in January, it has been proved to be BS.

And Pete, once again - there is not a 9 figure (9 figures means over $100M) waiting. As I meticulously pointed out previously, the Pac-2 has or will have spent $170M of the windfall simply to cover operations by the end of FY26. So that takes us down to $80M right there. Not counting poaching fees (still TBD), or the millions in legal fees that we have or will have incurred this year and next, or costs (unknown) of helping with Traitor exit fees and getting the 8th member. And $30M of the dwindling pot doesn't come until post-FY 26.

Finally, the Moos decision was the correct one at the time, although one could argue that it was too spendy. And of course the complete BS revenue projections for the Pac-12 network. Which are what prodded Moos to blow as big of a wad as he did. A wad we never got.

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I agree with the last point, and I'm never really on board with the idea of spending based on speculative revenue, so wasn't really comfortable with the moves at the time. But, Moos and Floyd really wanted to believe what Larry Scott was selling, so they did...even if it all seemed a little too good to be true, and was.

Total tangent, but the same thing is happening where I live. The city has started a large development project, funded by what they call "tax increment financing." Basically, they're building infrastructure for a development, with the theory that they'll pay back the money using increased property tax revenues that will be realized once the property is developed. So not only are they spending money they don't have, but they're committing future revenues for an unknown duration...whether the development actually happens or not. Nothing can go wrong there, right?

95coug said:

I don't necessarily disagree, but rather than agreeing that "we need more of a westside presence," I think someone should be taking a really close look at events we've had in the past and what they've brought in. If the westside events historically give us the best ROI, then sure....we need more of a presence there. But if those events didn't make any money, we shouldn't waste the time.

I'm skeptical of the west side, because while I know we have a lot of alums there, they couldn't keep the Seattle games alive (which doesn't disappoint me) and couldn't keep WSU West open. So, I don't really believe that they're going to show up with their checkbooks.

It'll take more time and probably more staff to support westside events, and prices are higher, so they're going to cost more. If the revenue doesn't more than offset the additional expenses, it's not worth it. If we have to spend an extra 100K to get 50K more....then have another event in Spokane or Tri-Cities.

Of course, the real problem is that WSU historically doesn't do that....they'll just crow about how much money an event brings in, and not mention that it cost more than they made.

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They made money.

Did it move the needle? No. Portland at the biggest was barely eclipsed 6 figures. I'm sure Seattle was more (it was but I can't remember the numbers).

What it did do was make a couple of hundred WSU fans feel important and included, and more likely to open their pocket book throughout the year(s). The events were growing in attendance and revenue before they inexplicably shut them down. My gut feeling was the AD staff responsible simply didn't want to put in the effort for not a ton of revenue, while completely disregarding the goodwill and loyalty they were building within the fanbase. Not to mention (again) that they treated their volunteers like shit towards the end, but pissed and moaned about having too much work to do.

I'm a firm believer in the events. They can and should be volunteer driven, with swoop in appearances by the WSU folks to kiss babies and shake hands. Not only do you maximize profits this way, you increase the efficiency with which the event gets planned. We had a good thing rolling until WSU AD staff decided they needed to run all aspects of the events, mostly from Pullman by the way.

PeteTheChop said:

What if the Big Sky added North Dakota State, South Dakota State, North Dakota and South Dakota go with Idaho, Montana and Montana State, then poached Wyoming from the sinking MWC?

That would be some good football

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That would be a great FCS conference.

ttowncoug said:

The $4.5M is not acceptable. We are truly going to revert back to Paul Wulff era type of recruiting very soon. If this truly is basically a re-bucketing of scholarship money, and calling it revenue sharing, with no direct payment of additional money to athletes, we need to start over.

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PeteTheChop said:

T-town, do you know if the nine-figure Pac-12 nest egg is off limits for revenue sharing?
”

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95coug said:

CAn't really blame Moos...at the time, it was the right move. He couldn't have known that the Pac-12 would implode a few years later. In fact, if it hadn't been for Larry Scott's mismanagement of the conference and the Pac-12 Network, the situation might be completely different.

As for the new president...I kind of doubt she's worrying deeply about what conference we're in right now. She's more concerned about the programs, operations, and people that are going to be cut in the next 3 weeks.

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Ok, in order:

We know that the $4.5M figure that McCoy threw out in January is BS, because the FY 25-26 budget, just approved by the Regents. has no such line item or increase to other line items in it. Fact. So while she may have thought her statement was true in January, it has been proved to be BS.

And Pete, once again - there is not a 9 figure (9 figures means over $100M) waiting. As I meticulously pointed out previously, the Pac-2 has or will have spent $170M of the windfall simply to cover operations by the end of FY26. So that takes us down to $80M right there. Not counting poaching fees (still TBD), or the millions in legal fees that we have or will have incurred this year and next, or costs (unknown) of helping with Traitor exit fees and getting the 8th member. And $30M of the dwindling pot doesn't come until post-FY 26.

Finally, the Moos decision was the correct one at the time, although one could argue that it was too spendy. And of course the complete BS revenue projections for the Pac-12 network. Which are what prodded Moos to blow as big of a wad as he did. A wad we never got.