Abandoning allies

[Flatlandcoug]

Grow up.

It's all wars over land masses ever is and ever will be; a fight for natural resources. The Dobras region wants to be Russia, so why doesn't Z just let them go be Russian? Because there's a shit ton of rare earth metals there, and he/his country wants them.

For starters...where the hell is Dobras?

Next...as usual....for you and your dear leader, everything is a transaction. I'm sure that there are a lot of people in eastern Ukraine that have Russian sympathies. There are also a lot that don't. Why should the ones that don't want to be Russian citizens have to be subjugated. To quote a lot of my MAGA friends when it comes to Hispanics and others...."If they love Russia so much, why don't they move there?"

You also conveniently overlook that when Russia started their attack on Ukraine....they tried to take Kiev.....which is not in the Donbas region. This war has never been about freeing Eastern Ukrainians from Nazi rule or natural resources....it's always been about Russian Imperial expansion and Putin's desire to recreate the Soviet Union.

 

[Coug90]

Smart people can plainly see what my position is on russia...the complete opposite of yours.

Now if you're ASKING me to declare, sure: "I do declare russia is WRONG to have invaded Ukraine".

We'll all note you can't or won't do the same. CO

It’s not the Ukrainian soldiers. These assholes don’t give a F about Ukrainian soldiers lives, they insult our own war hero’s and are fine with our police being beaten as long as it serves their agenda.

The “cost” of it doesn’t matter, $100B+ actually isn’t that bad of a deal to deplete Russia’s war machine 30-40% (the $300B is another Trump lie).

If the economic cost mattered so much they’d be having a meltdown over what a stupid move the tariffs are for the US. But they are convinced that’s a great idea too even though the economic impact has probably already surpassed the $ amount that’s been provided for Ukraines defense.

Nope, it’s just TDS, the real meaning.

 

[dgibbons]

You passively and pathetically claimed the position of russia being "wrong"...after declining to answer directly 4 specific times:

Me(#372) "is it your position that Ukraine did something to JUSTIFY Russia's invasion?" (note the lack of the word "unprovoked" in the question)

YOU: No Answer and total dodge (#373) "its my "position" that the term you used (unprovoked) is a poor word choice." And added: "You should use terms more carefully. Perhaps "wrongful" is what you meant. Or perhaps you meant something else"
(NOT the question i asked and not an answer)

ME(#374) "so you believe Russia was JUSTIFIED and wasn't WRONG in its invasion of Ukraine?" (note the lack of the word "unprovoked" in the question)

YOU: No answer in #376 and #378

ME: #393: I asked you if you agree with Sachs that the west provoked russia? (No answer to that one either) and then followed up with "was russia JUSTIFIED or WRONG to launch their military assault?" (Again, the word "unprovoked" not used)

YOU: (#400) after railing against the term "unprovoked" you pathetically answered: "And I already gave you the proper term to use- wrongful. So, that's your answer."

NOT Ananser to the questions I asked.

Now the chaser...why do you (timidly) believe russia was "wrongful" to invade when you clearly belive they were provoked? You already displayed THAT belief twice so why do you think they're wrong? (Hint: you won't be able to answer this without undercutting your entire stream of utter BS posts. It's no wonder you refuse to answer direct questions) taihtsat

You might want to check with your doctor to see if you've overdosed on blue pills. I'm serious.

The United States trained and armed a bunch of Cuban exiles, and with assistance from the US navy invaded at the Bay of Pigs without Cuba having a path to Warsaw Pact membership and without two Soviet diplomats discussing who they preferred for a new Cuban government. Less provocation I would say, and yet the US did what it did.

You're either choosing or not capable of figuring out that two things can be true at once. There was provocation. And Russia's invasion can be wrong.

 

[dgibbons]

And yet you want to reward them for doing things that are wrong.

No. I want Ukraine to survive.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

No. I want Ukraine to survive.

Do you though?

And even if you do, one of Zelensky's requests is that if he is to sign away $500 billion in resources, is that the US and NATO agree to put protections in place so Putin (or his successor) don't pull this sh!t in another 5-10 years. FWIW, Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994 with the assurance that the US, UK and Russia would not attack Ukraine in the future. When Zelensky says that he is concerned that Russia will not honor a ceasefire agreement without some teeth to it...he's saying that from a position of knowledge. Trump yelling, "Well it wasn't with me!" was the most clueless comment in the history of American diplomacy. As you claim that you want them to survive, you support a man who doesn't want to provide any guaranteed support for their survival, at the same time that he is asking them to give up 50% of their country's natural resources.

If Ukraine had held onto those nuclear weapons, it would be incredibly dangerous to the world, but Putin would have been less likely to have tried to take Kiev in 2022. Mutually Assured Destruction theory works when you know that a losing side may launch nukes if they have nothing else to lose. Would Putin have had the balls to attack Ukraine if there was a chance that Moscow would end up as a smoking crater? That threat is undoubtedly a lot more compelling than Trump mumbling out, "I'm the greatest negotiator" as he fails to get a single concession out of the Russians.

 

[Observer11]

No. I want Ukraine to survive.

I want Ukrainians to survive.

As well as Russians.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

You might want to check with your doctor to see if you've overdosed on blue pills. I'm serious.

The United States trained and armed a bunch of Cuban exiles, and with assistance from the US navy invaded at the Bay of Pigs without Cuba having a path to Warsaw Pact membership and without two Soviet diplomats discussing who they preferred for a new Cuban government. Less provocation I would say, and yet the US did what it did.

You're either choosing or not capable of figuring out that two things can be true at once. There was provocation. And Russia's invasion can be wrong.

Proportionality. Did Russia's actions fit the "provocation"? You seem to think so.
In my response to O11 "we agree killing is bad?" I said:

Depends. Unprovoked attacks and invasions by one nation upon another resulting in killing of unarmed civilians is much worse than the invaded and attacked country responding by killing the soldiers of the aggressor nation. Ya know, hypothetically speaking.

That is when you seemed to feel the need to quibble with the provocation and offered the defense for russian agression.

Notice you said Russia's invasion "can" be wrong. Do YOU believe it was?

 

[WillieThePimp]

Do you though?

And even if you do, one of Zelensky's requests is that if he is to sign away $500 billion in resources, is that the US and NATO agree to put protections in place so Putin (or his successor) don't pull this sh!t in another 5-10 years. FWIW, Ukraine gave up their nuclear weapons in 1994 with the assurance that the US, UK and Russia would not attack Ukraine in the future. When Zelensky says that he is concerned that Russia will not honor a ceasefire agreement without some teeth to it...he's saying that from a position of knowledge. Trump yelling, "Well it wasn't with me!" was the most clueless comment in the history of American diplomacy. As you claim that you want them to survive, you support a man who doesn't want to provide any guaranteed support for their survival, at the same time that he is asking them to give up 50% of their country's natural resources.

If Ukraine had held onto those nuclear weapons, it would be incredibly dangerous to the world, but Putin would have been less likely to have tried to take Kiev in 2022. Mutually Assured Destruction theory works when you know that a losing side may launch nukes if they have nothing else to lose. Would Putin have had the balls to attack Ukraine if there was a chance that Moscow would end up as a smoking crater? That threat is undoubtedly a lot more compelling than Trump mumbling out, "I'm the greatest negotiator" as he fails to get a single concession out of the Russians.

No he does not.

He’s simply parroting Kremlin propaganda talking points filtered through American rightwing media and opinion hacks. The Russkies have been feeding the right this stuff for years and dupes like these believe it in part because they’ve been hearing it over and over.

“Russia is not a global threat”
“The US needs to split from NATO and Europe”
“The Ukraine started the war”
“Denazification of Ukraine”
and on and on and on

Press dgibbons and when he can’t respond he’ll pivot and demand you answer a question, play the “I’m rubber you’re glue” card or tell you he’s right because dammit, he’s dgibbons and he knows what he’s talking about.

 

[dgibbons]

No he does not.

He’s simply parroting Kremlin propaganda talking points filtered through American rightwing media and opinion hacks. The Russkies have been feeding the right this stuff for years and dupes like these believe it in part because they’ve been hearing it over and over.

“Russia is not a global threat”
“The US needs to split from NATO and Europe”
“The Ukraine started the war”
“Denazification of Ukraine”
and on and on and on

Press dgibbons and when he can’t respond he’ll pivot and demand you answer a question, play the “I’m rubber you’re glue” card or tell you he’s right because dammit, he’s dgibbons and he knows what he’s talking about.

The majority of voters in this past presidential election said let's move away from neocon, Team America World Police, forever wars. The left, and your, reaction to that is the "Putin puppet" name calling nonsense.

 

[dgibbons]

Proportionality. Did Russia's actions fit the "provocation"? You seem to think so.
In my response to O11 "we agree killing is bad?" I said:

Depends. Unprovoked attacks and invasions by one nation upon another resulting in killing of unarmed civilians is much worse than the invaded and attacked country responding by killing the soldiers of the aggressor nation. Ya know, hypothetically speaking.

That is when you seemed to feel the need to quibble with the provocation and offered the defense for russian agression.

Notice you said Russia's invasion "can" be wrong. Do YOU believe it was?

Do you agree that provocations existed?

Russia's invasion WAS wrong. Is that better? As I said above, two things can be correct at the same time.

 

[Observer11]

Do you agree that provocations existed?

Russia's invasion WAS wrong. Is that better? As I said above, two things can be correct at the same time.

You're supposed to say killing Ukrainians is wrong and killing Russians is right.

 

[UberCougars]

America loves fireworks. Russia has really big fireworks. Many Americans seem to want to see them ‘cause, reasons.

Show is gonna be lit 🔥

 

[Coug90]

Lmfao 😂. As Lloyd would say…”so you’re saying there’s a chance”…”

Uber, did you ask Grok this?

Elon Musk's AI chatbot says a 'Russian asset' delivered the State of the Union | Opinion

The chatbot Grok scoured available public data and found a '75-85% likelihood' that Donald Trump more or less works for Vladimir Putin.

www.azcentral.com

 

[Wazzubrooz]

Wow. Just throw western democracy out the door then, as the US aligns with all the “Evil Empire’s” of the world. (Russia, as labeled by President Regan, also, China (completely a totalitarian state, North Korea, a completely totalitarian state with the “dear leader’., Iran, an Islamic theocracy . This is wrong on every level. America stands for freedom and rule of law, FairPlay and doing the right thing (the allied cause to stop the Nazi regime in WW II. America should lead the free world, not support thugs/ killers like Putin. We can and should do better.

 

[95coug]

Lmfao 😂. As Lloyd would say…”so you’re saying there’s a chance”…”

Uber, did you ask Grok this?

Elon Musk's AI chatbot says a 'Russian asset' delivered the State of the Union | Opinion

The chatbot Grok scoured available public data and found a '75-85% likelihood' that Donald Trump more or less works for Vladimir Putin.

www.azcentral.com

Expect the search algorithm to be tweaked in 5, 4, 3, 2....

 

[Coug90]

Expect the search algorithm to be tweaked in 5, 4, 3, 2....

Oh this is gonna get a fake news outcry like nothing we’ve ever seen before 😂

 

[WillieThePimp]

The majority of voters in this past presidential election said let's move away from neocon, Team America World Police, forever wars. The left, and your, reaction to that is the "Putin puppet" name calling nonsense.

Since you are clearly unaware, less than 50% of voters voted for Trump. And as with any presidential election, “it’s the economy, stupid”. People were fed up with inflation - whether it was Biden’s fault or not ( and he shares some of the blame for overstimulating the economy), the party in power is going to pay. Same as it ever was. And the woke nonsense exacted a cost to the Dems as well. As did other factors.

There is no anti-neocon agenda green-lighted because of the election. Utter rubbish. Now you are parroting the likes of Steve Bannon. Trumps allegiance with Putin is strictly transactional no matter what excuses are being served up to the mindless masses.

If Trump and you are not puppets then why do the both of you regurgitate the words of Kremlin propagandists?

 

[dgibbons]

Since you are clearly unaware, less than 50% of voters voted for Trump. And as with any presidential election, “it’s the economy, stupid”. People were fed up with inflation - whether it was Biden’s fault or not ( and he shares some of the blame for overstimulating the economy), the party in power is going to pay. Same as it ever was. And the woke nonsense exacted a cost to the Dems as well. As did other factors.

There is no anti-neocon agenda green-lighted because of the election. Utter rubbish. Now you are parroting the likes of Steve Bannon. Trumps allegiance with Putin is strictly transactional no matter what excuses are being served up to the mindless masses.

If Trump and you are not puppets then why do the both of you regurgitate the words of Kremlin propagandists?

Fair enough. 49.8 appears to be the final count. However, Trump clearly campaigned on no more forever wars and said he would end the war in Ukraine in one day.

I revise my post to say: The left, and your, reaction to Trump winning the election and carrying out his campaign promise is the "Putin puppet" name calling nonsense.

 

[dgibbons]

Wow. Just throw western democracy out the door then, as the US aligns with all the “Evil Empire’s” of the world. (Russia, as labeled by President Regan, also, China (completely a totalitarian state, North Korea, a completely totalitarian state with the “dear leader’., Iran, an Islamic theocracy . This is wrong on every level. America stands for freedom and rule of law, FairPlay and doing the right thing (the allied cause to stop the Nazi regime in WW II. America should lead the free world, not support thugs/ killers like Putin. We can and should do better.

We choose not to, often. Stalin was a US ally during WWII. Nixon normalized relations with Mao, who is probably responsible for more deaths than anyone in history. The Shah, Pinochet, Manuel Noriega were not choir boys. Lots more can be added to the list.

 

[Observer11]

I'm still trying to piece together how literally Hitler can also be Putin's puppet.

Doesn't line up historically or logically. Actual Hitler and the Russians were not bffs except for a couple years. Is literally Hitler going to double cross Putin the Puppet Master?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Do you agree that provocations existed?

Russia's invasion WAS wrong. Is that better? As I said above, two things can be correct at the same time.

Bravo! It took you several days spanning nearly 80 posts and being asked 5 times. Good on you!

Provocation? Yes, certainly from Russia's perspective. Provocation to the point of giving two shits about how things appear from THEIR perspective like you? Not even.

You'd think you - being an alleged patriotic American - would concern yourself less about the perceived threats of an autocracy trying to destroy a developing democracy. But yet, here you are. Weird. Taihtsat

 

[dgibbons]

Bravo! It took you several days spanning nearly 80 posts and being asked 5 times. Good on you!

Provocation? Yes, certainly from Russia's perspective. Provocation to the point of giving two shits about how things appear from THEIR perspective like you? Not even.

You'd think you - being an alleged patriotic American - would concern yourself less about the perceived threats of an autocracy trying to destroy a developing democracy. But yet, here you are. Weird. Taihtsat

Is George Clooney coming to get me?

It took you more posts to acknowledge there were provocations. Nice job.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Is George Clooney coming to get me?

It took you more posts to acknowledge there were provocations. Nice job.

We don't view "provocations" the same. Your view comes from a distinctly anti-western/democratic perspective.

It was real enlightening to witness the thought process from a deep MAGA disciple. I look forward to exposing more. CO

 

[dgibbons]

We don't view "provocations" the same. Your view comes from a distinctly anti-western/democratic perspective.

It was real enlightening to witness the thought process from a deep MAGA disciple. I look forward to exposing more. CO

My view comes from the definition of words. Yours is political.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

My view comes from the definition of words. Yours is political.

You display incredible ignorance and naivety in your view that this conflict isn't political. Taihtsat

 

[Coug90]

Is George Clooney coming to get me?

It took you more posts to acknowledge there were provocations. Nice job.

Clooney might be coming to get you. He made a killing on tequila maybe an old folks franchise is next.