Coaching Search Update
- Thread starter CougSinceBirth
- Start date
Leave it to WSU to F up by, and not getting either Shaw or Henderson, and maybe losing out on Logie.
If Logie is torn, declines WSU's offer, then outbid Montana St.
WSU either has or should have more money then Montana St, and is or Should be considered a better job, program then Montana St, etc.
If lose Logie, and stuck with EWU Riley, when you could have had Shaw, Henderson, Logie, if you had done your job right, then YOU SHOULD BE FIRED.
WSU's roster leaving, only 4 wins here we come, as good luck selling Riley to the roster, Isiah Watts, Donald Watts
I bet the admin got cute and low-balled in the range of "now I'll have to mull it over..."
EDIT: a word.
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Whatever! If he stays at MSU, he stays. He may have been the number one choice of the administration, but it does not mean that would turn out to be the best choice. USC got turned down three times before they settled for Pete Carroll, who turned out to be a Hall of Fame level coach. We will just have to wait and see what happens.
You can bet that. If he is really making anywhere near $189/year and MSU might counter with enough to retain him this is worse than a Paul Wulff hire. And f-ing embarrassing to WSU.
And his long tenure at Montana State is not even a year, and he went 17-18 and 9-9 in the Big Sky?
And before that Point Loma and Whitworth? You are F-ing kidding me.
Absolutely pissed at this BS choice and offer. F-ing Schulz and now Anne the accountant. I see why they passed on Shaw. Might have cost them $1 million.
And why they passed on Henderson, as he would have taken only about 1 mil.
I can't believe WSU TURNED down BOTH Shaw AND Henderson, only to maybe lose Logie and get stuck with either Logie or Riley, as he Logie has little experience at Point Loma, Whitworth, and went 17-18, 9-9 in Big Sky, and got lucky and upset into winning Big Sky tourny, and Big Sky's 1 NCAA tourny bid his first year as a D1, Big Sky, FCS, Mid Major, etc, HC.
What a Debacle, what a embarrassment to WSU, and the WSU roster, Isiah Watts, Donald Watts, etc.
Whole Roster except Parker Gerrits is probably going to leave, as good luck selling this shit to the roster, Isiah Watts, Donald Watts, etc.
Only 3 wins, Paul Wulf, Stevens, Graham, here WSU, we come
Past time for the Board of Regents, Schultz, AD, etc, to be fired, replaced by good Board of Regents, Good Floyd like President(s), Good AD'S, Good Coaches, if other WSU types can do it, WSU can do it too.
The only question is will that happen?
Theoretically possible, but probably won't happen, as WSU leadership, is WSU's worst enemy, generally, except for the exceptions
Logie is a top notch coach and would be a good fit at WSU
But if he’s mulling a contract offer/extension with Montana State, it tells me a couple things
1 - WSU is truly low balling the candidates.
2 - it’s apparent that players are bailing at a rapid pace once Shaw’s name came off the table - somebody like Logie is probably better off staying put and adding to what he’s already done at MSU vs trying to build at WSU. Other programs will come calling later with success in Bozeman.
This isn’t going to end well.
Yep because Schultz the STUPID V Lane Rawlin, Ebenezer Scrooge(Before his repentance), etc, and the STUPID AD, etc, is STUPIDLY FCKING IT ALL UP, MESSING THE BED. THIS IS A EMBARRASING DEBACLE
Well Shaw greater then Henderson, greater then Logie, or Riley(I think Riley is worse, but it still not as good, not good to get stuck with Logie or Riley, or get worse, or even a High School Head Coach, the way WSU, Schultz, AD has FCKED UP.), greater then somebody worse like a Whitworth or Highschool HC.
WSU has the ability to pay about 900k to 1.8 mil for a Good HEAD coach, and should be able to get a pretty good coach for that money, whether it's Shaw, Henderson, a South Dakota type HC, WCC HC, a MWC HC, etc.
This is beyond SNAFU. It is FUBAR.
Coupla things. First, who the hell let it slip that we had offered Logie in the first place? Even if he ends up accepting, this is an unconscionable F-up. You keep that dead silent until they accept. Heads should roll over that.
Second, if WSU had a brain (they clearly don't), they should quietly pull Logie's offer and say "you are welcome for us getting you a big fat raise" and he can spin it however he wants.
Third, why would Logie even interview or entertain an offer after not even a calendar year at MSU? That speaks volumes about him IMHO. And why the F would we pursue a guy that is in that position? You think he won't just jump again? Dennis Erickson and Wyoming come to mind.
To the Brand X Twitter thing on the other thread - Brand X, other than the one reporter pissing Leach off, has always sucked the tit of the WSU administration. This seems very out of character for them. I don't do Twitter, maybe someone who does can relay some of the subsequent comments, especially if they come from Brand X personnel.
Just when you think we can't F it up any worse, surprise we do. Go back to Shaw with $1 million in hand and beg him to take the job.
Doesn't make sense for Logie to make a lateral move when he'll be coaching at a P4 in a couple of years. Smart move on his part if true.
It's not a lateral move. WSU is a better program, Job then the FCS, Big Sky, as WSU is a HIGH MWC, AAC level mid major, G5 to, in between, G5 to LOW P4, P5 College, Program, Team(s)(Football, bball), except for the rare Paul Wulf, Len Stevens, Graham, etc, and has had Price, Leach, Dennis Erickson, Walden, Raveling, Sampson, Bennets, Smith, and been to about 8 straight Bowl games, before WSU went 5-7, last year, had the 5th most TV eyes watching WSU in the PAC 12, before the 10 left, and was moving in the right direction despite being wrongly left behind thru no fault of their own making at the time, and moving in right direction to play against WCC, MWC, and so far trying to successfully rebuild PAC, as at least that part of that has gone according to plan, before FCKING UP the coaching hire.
If Logie, joined WSU it would be a UPGRADE, not a lateral move.
That said, your right that if he sits tight, he will probably get a better job offer from a better program then WSU.
WSU isn’t in a position to offer a big salary. That’s the problem here.
We agree. The admin severely underestimated the downside risk of making a wholesale change. They could have effectively maintained the status quo (including their self imposed 10% salary reduction) and effectively kept the bball program intact - giving the fans something to be hopeful. Instead they stepped over dollars trying to save pennies.
All the Paul Graham comparisons are bullshit. That guy had no connection to WSU or the northwest.
Shaw could have walked into any AAU program/high school in the northwest and secured talent. He’s already done it.
Logie is fine - if he takes it. But the next two years are going to be brutal. And if he does somehow pull a rabbit out of his hat, he’ll be on the first train out of town. Mark it down.
WSU can't offer a big Salary.
WSU can, should offer about 900k to 1.8 mil depending on the candidate, HC.
THATS NOT A BIG SALARY.
WSU CAN AFFORD THAT.
Riley is worth about 700k to 900k, if you offer(And I don't think WSU should, as can, should get better(Shaw, Henderson, etc)
Logie is worth about 800k to 1 mil(Definately not the probable about 400k to 600k base + small bonuses CHEAPSKATE PAUL WULFIAN offer(Logie should get more then that)(Better candidates then Logie(Shaw, Henderson, etc)
Henderson is worth about 1 mil to 1.3 mil to 1.5 mil to 1.7 mil. He is worth getting if can. WSU, Schultz, AD, Blew it.
Shaw is worth about 1.3 mil to 1.5 mil to 1.7 mil. Worth getting as safe hire if all can get is Logie, Riley.
WCC, MWC, AAC, MAC, C-USA coach that a good HC for WSU(Not a Mark Few, Randy Bennet type, as they will cost too much, and wouldn't join WSU) that would be worth about 1.6 mil to 1.8 mil to 2 mil.
With the new Clarity on what money WSU likely to get from the 222 million that the PAC 2 get to rebuild, WSU can semi somewhat easier, easily afford a salary range of about 1 mil to 1.5 mil to 2 mil to 2.5 mil depending on who they get.
There is no need to either not get good candidates that worth 1.5 mil to 2 mil to 2.5 mil, or semi lowball, semi cheapskate offer candidates that worth 1 mil to 1.5 mil to 2 mil, etc.
V Lane Rawlins, despite WSU having the money to do so, stiffed Price, and the assistants after the rosebowl.
Price said, and others said that Price just only wanted about, between about, say about, around 333k to be split between ALL his ASSISTANTS, and about a small raise for him, say about a 175k to 333k raise for himself.
WSU easily had that money. But V Lane Rawlins, DORKSON the AD STUPIDLY said no.
Schultz, AD is just like V Lane Rawlins, DORKSON the AD, and equally as stupid.
The money is there, and WSU has that level of money to spend on HC's, Schultz, AD, is just LOWBALL CHEAPSKATING JUST LIKE V Lane Rawlins, DORKSON the AD.
Stop trying to defend them and their Stupidity
They have FCKED IT UP, MADE A MESS, SHIT THE BED, CREATED THIS EMBARRASING DEBACLE.
And it may get so bad, that they might hire a Highschool HC, the way they have FCKED IT UP SO BAD.
They had the chance to hire Shaw, a SAFE, GOOD HIRE, BETTER THEN LOGIE, RILEY, EQUAL TO HENDERSON, THEY STUPIDLY TURNED HIM DOWN IN FAVOR OF HENDERSON, AND THEN EITHER STUPIDLY TURNED DOWN HENDERSON, OR STUPIDLY LOWBALLED HIM, OR STUPIDLY SOMEHOW LOST HIM, GOT TURNED DOWN BY HIM AFTER THE INTERVIEW.
STOP DEFENDING SCHULTZ, AND THE AD.
A GOOD AD, ETC, CAN SEMI SOMEWHAT SEMI EASIER, EASILY GET A WAY BETTER HC THEN RILEY, LOGIE, EVEN THEN HENDERSON, AT WSU for 1.5 mil to 1.7 mil to 2 mil to 2.25 mil + decent, good, moderate bonuses, AT WSU, AND WSU HAS THE MONEY FOR THAT
STOP DEFENDING SCHULTZ, AND THE AD.
Good Morning.. a couple things..Yes, absolutely a special case of stupid to let it leak that Logie was offered BEFORE he officially accepted the job. Secondly, Brad Underwood at Illinois had only been at Oklahoma State for 1 year before accepting the Illinois job. He had coached 10 years at Western Illinois and loved the idea of returning to the area- was a midwestern guy, lots of connections. Finally, virtually any coach we hire is going to be out the door if they somehow, quickly, pull a 'rabbit out of the hat'--it's the nature of the beast --sad to say.
All of this brings me to, at this point in time for Wazzu bball, where building on recent success is of the utmost importance, my first choice was Shaw. For me, that doesn't change even if the players DON'T stay--he has so many other great things on his resume.
All of this brings me to, at this point in time for Wazzu bball, where building on recent success is of the utmost importance, my first choice was Shaw. For me, that doesn't change even if the players DON'T stay--he has so many other great things on his resume.
C'mon Mik - you are just pulling numbers out of your ass again. Let's get real. I agree that with that $100M coming in over the next 2 years, and Smith going away with his $1.5M salary, we have enough money to make a decent hire. But not be stupid.
Small University coach salaries are almost impossible to find, but:
In general - 1.0 million (I agree), to 2.5 million (no way)
Henderson - 1.0 to 1.7M?
Shaw - 1.7M (more than Smith?)
Logie 1M?
Riley $7-900K?
Riley's numbers are getting closer to the ballpark. I'm cool with cheaping out to the tune of $1M, but not for a guy who makes $200k and just stepped off the plane in Bozeman.
More likely than not, it was Logie's agent who leaked the information. Just like Mark Rodgers, Russell Wilson's agent used to regularly leak information to Colin Cowherd and then Colin would go on air kissing Wilson's butt and trashing the Seahawks for holding Wilson back. Always look to who benefited from the leak.
In this case, it was Logie.
Logie is out. He either turned it down or WSU rescinded the offer. Either way, I felt it was embarrassing that a Big Sky coach would not immediately say yes to WSU. Whether it was because of a low ball offer or Logie just didn't feel good about the uncertainty of WSU or he truly just likes Bozeman and wants to give it more than one year....I would've moved on from him once he said he had to think about it. Logie will probably have better offers in the next couple of years anyway.
Who is left? Apparently Henderson is no longer being considered (or never was after the interview, maybe he also pulled himself out) and that leaves Riley and UW's Will Conroy as the only known coaches who interviewed. There may be more. I hope so, that's a dreadful list of remaining candidates.
Glad Cougar
Who is left? Apparently Henderson is no longer being considered (or never was after the interview, maybe he also pulled himself out) and that leaves Riley and UW's Will Conroy as the only known coaches who interviewed. There may be more. I hope so, that's a dreadful list of remaining candidates.
Glad Cougar
Shaw could have done what Ken Bone did....
Bone had as good or better connections than Shaw had. He thought he could walk into Rainier Beach, Garfield and pull kids to Pullman. That isn't the winning strategy.
You have to go with the John Chaplin/George Raveling strategy, find kids not on the west side of the mountains who don't see WSU as an outpost. Hell George use to fly kids into Spokane and would drive them down to Pullman at night, and return them back to Spokane at night as well. One of the best stories was Marques Johnson in the same van from Spokane as Moses Malone.
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Yes, that certainly possible. What do you think-- would they go back and reoffer Shaw?
Without knowing the reason that they moved on from Shaw, it is impossible to know.
You'd think of it was medical, that could have been clarified with his doctor.. and perhaps it was.. likely we'll never know
You are probably right. There's speculation that Logie's agent did leak it to CBS's Matt Norlander and that WSU immediately withdrew the offer once that happened. We may never know for sure and it probably doesn't matter now. It's still a mess and doesn't reflect well on the relative importance WSU currently holds now that it's not in a high major conference.
Glad Cougar
I'm not embarrassed by this, and I don't understand why anyone else is. This is all a result of realignment. WSU has asked all of the remaining coaches and staff to take a pay cut. We're getting ready to eventually ask the State of WA for compensatory money, at least I think we will. We need to rebalance our budgets and survive the next couple of years. The highest paid MWC basketball coach (SDSU) made less than $1.5/year in March 2023, and he took his team to the NCAA championship game.
Oregon State is paying Wayne Tinkle $2.8M/year. That's embarrassing in a different way.
Oregon State is paying Wayne Tinkle $2.8M/year. That's embarrassing in a different way.
If it's not going to get better, might as well just play DII in athletics. And if that's the case, what's the point? Athletics as the doorstep to the university is severely damaged. WSU can pretend it has R1 clout, when it's toothless.
Trying to survive and advance (pardon my March Madness pun) right now, is the last thing WSU can do. If the university decides to be cheap, that's not good. WSU attempting to "ballin' on a budget" signifies they're mailing it in.
Don't recklessly spend, but they need to give a sh/t.
I agree. What is there to be embarrassed about? There are only two fans of teams that even care, the uw and WSU. Plus, in a few months when the uw is in the Big Ten, only WSU will even care. In our country of short attention span people, nobody else will even remember any details regarding hiring a new coach beside a few hardcore people here or on BX or BY.
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I don't understand why you wouldn't understand if someone was concerned or even embarrassed how this coaching search has proceeded. It's perfectly alright to feel the way you do, but it's also okay if Cougar fans think the handling of Shaw and Logie has not reflected well on the administration's efforts to hire a new coach. At least some of those fans still care.
Glad Cougar
Two things ... one you are comparing tve titanic with the love boat. Everyone in admin are simply trying to keep boat above water . It will be imperfect for the next couple of years.
And i think the greater point is we really dint know what is happening . We wont know for awhile .
I totally understand it because for a lot of people, it is human nature to fear the worst. But it is also useless because none of us know what is going on. We have heard second hand, and third hand information that has been repeated many times that it is not the same story being told any more. So people could be getting pissed and upset over things that aren't even true. Now that is something I do not understand.
