Gage Gubrud won his appeal.... Will play in Spring Game!

[Coug1990]

In all honesty, if there was some charitable tutor out there, getting Eric Barriere across the grad transfer finish line in a couple years would be bigger news than Gubrud.

That kid is a baller. EWU has pumped out some good QBs the last 15 or 20 years - and this kid is more dynamic than any of them.

At this point, I am not as high with Barriere as you are. He is more of a rusher than he is a passer.

 

[Stretch 74]

Somebody, namely you, the NEGACOUG, doesnt understand the correlation between MORE PASS ATTEMPTS EQUALS MORE INTERCEPTIONS.

If you go by Minshews past, the reason Minshew had more interceptions while at WSU, at about 13 games for 10 interceptions, then the about 10 interceptions over 17 games while not at WSU, is because Minshew had more pass attempts while at WSU.

Minshew didnt attempt as many passes in his past, so he threw less interceptions.

That is why you cant use Minshew's past in doing a comparision.

You have to look at what Minshew did at WSU: About 10 interceptions, and EXTRAPOLATE that he Minshew would PROBABLY have passed for 30 interceptions in 36 games.

That probably would have 30 interceptions in 36 games is what you compare to Gubrud's 32 interceptions in 32 games.

Comparing Minshews 30 games, 20 interceptions to Gubrud's 32, 32 is not a FAIR, ACCURATE comparision, because MINSHEW did NOT throw the ball as much in his past

Gubrud ATTEMPTED MORE PASSES THEN MINSHEW, SO OF COURSE HE WOULD HAVE MORE INTERCEPTIONS.

The only way you fix that, make it a fair apples to apples comparision, is to say since Minshew had about the same number of pass attempts at WSU in a season, as Gubrud had in a season, then you either compare Minshew at WSU for 1 season, and Gubrud for 1 season, or you EXTRAPOLATE that since Minshew had about 10 interceptions at WSU, he would probably have had 30 interceptions in 36 games.

You then compare that 30 interceptions in 36 games to Gubrud' s 32 interceptions in 32 games, and that is A FAIR ACCURATE APPLES TO APPLES COMPARISION WHERE BOTH GUBRUD AND MINSHEW ARE BOTH PRETTY DAM CLOSE IN THAT KIND OF COMPARISION.

Your comparing ORANGES to Apples. Your comparing Minshews past where he THREW FOR LESS PASS ATTEMPTS, to GUBRUDS MORE PASS ATTEMPTS.

For it to be fair, both have to have about the same number of pass attempts.

Its like people comparing Jalen Hurt to Minshew. Jalen hurt only had about 3,4,5 interceptions compared to Minshews 9, then errantly say Jalen Hurt was, is better because less interceptions.

Well of course he had less interceptions then Minshew. He didnt have as many pass attenpts as Minshew, so of course he have less interceptions then Minshew.

And your comparing Minshew's past to Gubrud, is like comparing Jalen Hurt to Minshew. Its not fair, its not accurate, its not apples to apples, and it shouldnt be done.

For it to be apples to apples, you have to do it, compare it the way I did it. Not the way you did it.

30 interceptions in 36 games is pretty dam close to 32 interceptions in 32 games.

Stop being such a NEGACOUG. Your being like FLAT, SPONGE, ED.

***************************

Jeez, you sure spend a lot of time and effort twisting things around in convoluted ways instead of just going to the bottom line. You must be Hell to put up with in company meetings. The number of games is irrelevant! Now A&M already took you to the woodshed pretty well, but let me just add this bit of simplicity:

Minshew in 2018 had 1 interception for every 73 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 17 pass attempts
Minshew for his career had 1 interception for every 58 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 18 pass attempts
Gubrud for his career had 1 interception for every 36 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 13 pass attempts

Make of that what you will, but ignoring things like INT's off balls that receivers should have caught and levels of competition, it appears that Minshew is more accurate/better protecting the ball while Gubrud was less accurate, suffering greater ratio of interceptions yet being more productive as far as TD's. You may argue over which is more beneficial, but I believe Leach prefers the accuracy and less risk.

That being said, if Gubrud wins the battle I hope he has just as much success as Gardner did, both team-wise and as an individual.

 

[Coug1990]

***************************

Jeez, you sure spend a lot of time and effort twisting things around in convoluted ways instead of just going to the bottom line. You must be Hell to put up with in company meetings. The number of games is irrelevant! Now A&M already took you to the woodshed pretty well, but let me just add this bit of simplicity:

Minshew in 2018 had 1 interception for every 73 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 17 pass attempts
Minshew for his career had 1 interception for every 58 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 18 pass attempts
Gubrud for his career had 1 interception for every 36 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 13 pass attempts

Make of that what you will, but ignoring things like INT's off balls that receivers should have caught and levels of competition, it appears that Minshew is more accurate/better protecting the ball while Gubrud was less accurate, suffering greater ratio of interceptions yet being more productive as far as TD's. You may argue over which is more beneficial, but I believe Leach prefers the accuracy and less risk.

That being said, if Gubrud wins the battle I hope he has just as much success as Gardner did, both team-wise and as an individual.

The problem with both arguments are that they both cherry pick the baseline for each.

 

[Coug95man2]

So here's my only real concern with bringing in ANY Grad transfer... How do all of you think this will affect recruiting HS QB's? If any? Or do you think CML's "the best person will play" mantra will continue to pull the QB's he needs?

I'll be honest, I don't have an issue with competition. None. But when an older, more mature person gets brought in, it could easily be seen as someone getting a head start on the competition. Like a younger HS QB already has a strike or 2 against them.

I can honestly see this hurting our recruiting of HS QB's.

Thoughts?

 

[CougInSpain]

So here's my only real concern with bringing in ANY Grad transfer... How do all of you think this will affect recruiting HS QB's? If any? Or do you think CML's "the best person will play" mantra will continue to pull the QB's he needs?

I'll be honest, I don't have an issue with competition. None. But when an older, more mature person gets brought in, it could easily be seen as someone getting a head start on the competition. Like a younger HS QB already has a strike or 2 against them.

I can honestly see this hurting our recruiting of HS QB's.

Thoughts?

I think the loss of Hilinski set us back a couple of years QB development wise because we all know he was the heir apparent to Falk. Behind him were a true frosh, JC transfer and a former walk-on. Then behind them were a walk-on frosh and a redshirt freshman who, at this stage, will likely not ever play. I think what we are doing these past couple years by taking Grad Transfer QBs, is filling that void. I don't think Cooper was ready (when we took Minshew and is still probably not) nor do I think Tinsley or Gordon have the leadership/skills to take us to the top. This is where Minshew and Gubrud are so valuable. These guys are leaders and have tons of actual game experience, not to mention they are proven winners. I think after this year, we will be set in the progression of our QB development given the drop off we experienced when we lost Hilinski.

 

[Coug1990]

So here's my only real concern with bringing in ANY Grad transfer... How do all of you think this will affect recruiting HS QB's? If any? Or do you think CML's "the best person will play" mantra will continue to pull the QB's he needs?

I'll be honest, I don't have an issue with competition. None. But when an older, more mature person gets brought in, it could easily be seen as someone getting a head start on the competition. Like a younger HS QB already has a strike or 2 against them.

I can honestly see this hurting our recruiting of HS QB's.

Thoughts?

The last two Heisman Trophy winners were transfer QB's to Oklahoma and they have Jalen Hurts transferring into school for 2019. Yet, they still were able to recruit the nations number one rated incoming freshman QB.

The uw had two QB's in the 2018 class, a transfer in Eason, and they still were able to recruit Dylan Morris, one of the west's top rated QB's.

Ultimately, Leach, winning and being a passing offense will keep good QB's interested in WSU.

 

[dgibbons]

So here's my only real concern with bringing in ANY Grad transfer... How do all of you think this will affect recruiting HS QB's? If any? Or do you think CML's "the best person will play" mantra will continue to pull the QB's he needs?

I'll be honest, I don't have an issue with competition. None. But when an older, more mature person gets brought in, it could easily be seen as someone getting a head start on the competition. Like a younger HS QB already has a strike or 2 against them.

I can honestly see this hurting our recruiting of HS QB's.

Thoughts?

They think they’re going to win the job as a true or redshirt freshman, so no affect.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

The last two Heisman Trophy winners were transfer QB's to Oklahoma and they have Jalen Hurts transferring into school for 2019. Yet, they still were able to recruit the nations number one rated incoming freshman QB.

The uw had two QB's in the 2018 class, a transfer in Eason, and they still were able to recruit Dylan Morris, one of the west's top rated QB's.

Ultimately, Leach, winning and being a passing offense will keep good QB's interested in WSU.

Baker Mayfield was at OU for four years and Murray was there for three years. If you look at OU's current roster of QB's, their 2017 QB has already left the program. They had two recruits in 2016 and the "good one" recently transferred once he realized that Hurts was coming in. OU has obviously done some good things with their transfers, but Hurts is the first transfer that they are bringing in for a one and done and he doesn't represent competition for any current recruit. The fact that all of their higher rated high school recruited QB's have bailed in the meantime tells you that you don't really build "depth" by bringing in competition, you run off the younger guys that are in competition. Of course, if their incoming transfers keep competing for Heisman trophies, I'm sure that's a cross they are willing to bear.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

How many wins did he have? That’s all that really matters for a QB

Yup, this. And/ or TDs (because sometimes the defense is awful).

So post the real number: TD/ INT ratio. GMs is 3:2.

 

[Coug95man2]

Baker Mayfield was at OU for four years and Murray was there for three years. If you look at OU's current roster of QB's, their 2017 QB has already left the program. They had two recruits in 2016 and the "good one" recently transferred once he realized that Hurts was coming in. OU has obviously done some good things with their transfers, but Hurts is the first transfer that they are bringing in for a one and done and he doesn't represent competition for any current recruit. The fact that all of their higher rated high school recruited QB's have bailed in the meantime tells you that you don't really build "depth" by bringing in competition, you run off the younger guys that are in competition. Of course, if their incoming transfers keep competing for Heisman trophies, I'm sure that's a cross they are willing to bear.

To me, what you're saying Flat shows it won't affect HS QB recruiting, though. They are here and gone. A freshman or Sophomore QB isn't concerned about someone coming in, at that point in his college career. At least not TOO much.

MY concern is that the Transfers are more mature, more filled out physically, more experience PT, etc. It's basically High Schoolers feeling like they are competing against grown men, which they are. And if that will affect whether or not they look our way. But Flat's comments, whether meant to or not, helped me. It'll be our RS Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors (when we have a qb at all those categories) that I'll be concerned about them transferring out, I guess.

It assuages me a bit to look at it from the perspective that Hilinski's tragedy, combined with previous QB's transferring, caused more than a 1 year hole in our recruiting. And this is just filling that gap. But much like the days of old when a program gets onto the crack pipe of "JC transfers" and not being able to get off that pipe, I'm concerned we may be heading down the same path with one and done QB's and the ripple affect having them on the team has on the QB recruiting.

Meh. We'll see, I guess. For now, glad we have someone that places more competition at that position. If they aren't our #1, they'll have to fight to show they are ready for next year. No Bassett Hounds allowed! lol.

 

[Loyal Coug]

***************************
Minshew in 2018 had 1 interception for every 73 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 17 pass attempts
Minshew for his career had 1 interception for every 58 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 18 pass attempts
Gubrud for his career had 1 interception for every 36 pass attempts, and 1 TD for every 13 pass attempts

it appears that Minshew is more accurate

I don't know how you could possibly reach that conclusion based upon the facts above. C'mon - 1/73 is only twice as good as 1/36. And I'm sure that the higher caliber of competition in the Big Sky had something to do with the numbers.

Stick to fabrications and fact-less pronouncements please. You are disrupting normal operations here.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

To me, what you're saying Flat shows it won't affect HS QB recruiting, though. They are here and gone. A freshman or Sophomore QB isn't concerned about someone coming in, at that point in his college career. At least not TOO much.

MY concern is that the Transfers are more mature, more filled out physically, more experience PT, etc. It's basically High Schoolers feeling like they are competing against grown men, which they are. And if that will affect whether or not they look our way. But Flat's comments, whether meant to or not, helped me. It'll be our RS Sophomores, Juniors and Seniors (when we have a qb at all those categories) that I'll be concerned about them transferring out, I guess.

It assuages me a bit to look at it from the perspective that Hilinski's tragedy, combined with previous QB's transferring, caused more than a 1 year hole in our recruiting. And this is just filling that gap. But much like the days of old when a program gets onto the crack pipe of "JC transfers" and not being able to get off that pipe, I'm concerned we may be heading down the same path with one and done QB's and the ripple affect having them on the team has on the QB recruiting.

Meh. We'll see, I guess. For now, glad we have someone that places more competition at that position. If they aren't our #1, they'll have to fight to show they are ready for next year. No Bassett Hounds allowed! lol.

I don't really think it affects our long term recruiting as long as it doesn't become a thing where none of our high school recruits get to play, but we are years away from that being any kind of issue. Oklahoma has definitely had trouble retaining their QB's, but as I said, if the transfer is going to contend for a Heisman, that's a cross that I'm sure that they are willing to bear. My only quibble with trying to use Oklahoma as an example of successful transfers is that their two guys that experienced success had the opportunity to spend a year on the bench learning the system and both spent 3+ years at OU. Hurts is a new experiment for them. However, he is a perfect fit for their offense and it won't surprise me to see him do well.

 

[Coug1990]

Baker Mayfield was at OU for four years and Murray was there for three years. If you look at OU's current roster of QB's, their 2017 QB has already left the program. They had two recruits in 2016 and the "good one" recently transferred once he realized that Hurts was coming in. OU has obviously done some good things with their transfers, but Hurts is the first transfer that they are bringing in for a one and done and he doesn't represent competition for any current recruit. The fact that all of their higher rated high school recruited QB's have bailed in the meantime tells you that you don't really build "depth" by bringing in competition, you run off the younger guys that are in competition. Of course, if their incoming transfers keep competing for Heisman trophies, I'm sure that's a cross they are willing to bear.

They were still transfers and as you wrote, in 2016 they still recruited well. The ultimate goal for a coach and program is to have a great starting QB. Those that are not can transfer out all they want. Do you think that Oklahoma is upset with that QB transferring out? Do you think that Alabama is upset that Hurts is transferring? Do you believe that Leach was upset that Bruggman or Bender transferred?

 

[Coug1990]

I don't really think it affects our long term recruiting as long as it doesn't become a thing where none of our high school recruits get to play, but we are years away from that being any kind of issue. Oklahoma has definitely had trouble retaining their QB's, but as I said, if the transfer is going to contend for a Heisman, that's a cross that I'm sure that they are willing to bear. My only quibble with trying to use Oklahoma as an example of successful transfers is that their two guys that experienced success had the opportunity to spend a year on the bench learning the system and both spent 3+ years at OU. Hurts is a new experiment for them. However, he is a perfect fit for their offense and it won't surprise me to see him do well.

Players transfer to or from all schools. No, it is not going to hurt recruiting at all.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

They were still transfers and as you wrote, in 2016 they still recruited well. The ultimate goal for a coach and program is to have a great starting QB. Those that are not can transfer out all they want. Do you think that Oklahoma is upset with that QB transferring out? Do you think that Alabama is upset that Hurts is transferring? Do you believe that Leach was upset that Bruggman or Bender transferred?

Instead of responding to criticize, maybe read my whole post? The part where I said that given the success they've had, I'm sure that they are fine with taking transfers?

 

[Stretch 74]

I don't know how you could possibly reach that conclusion based upon the facts above. C'mon - 1/73 is only twice as good as 1/36. And I'm sure that the higher caliber of competition in the Big Sky had something to do with the numbers.

Stick to fabrications and fact-less pronouncements please. You are disrupting normal operations here.

*******************
My humble apologies, sir. I will try to do better in the future..........

 

[Loyal Coug]

*******************
My humble apologies, sir. I will try to do better in the future..........

You know I was 100 % agreeing with you, and poking at the board denizens along the way, right?

 

[Coug1990]

Instead of responding to criticize, maybe read my whole post? The part where I said that given the success they've had, I'm sure that they are fine with taking transfers?

I read your entire post. Was reading your post my first mistake?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I read your entire post. Was reading your post my first mistake?

Apparently so. I don't mind that you are excited about transfers, but in no way does Mayfield or Murray translate in any reasonable fashion to Gubrud, Minshew or Hurts. There is an enormous difference between a guy spending 4-9 months on campus and Mayfield spending FOUR F'ING SEASONS AT OU. It's not even the same conversation and every time that you try to imply that it is, it becomes clearer that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. But hey, if that floats your boat, do your thing.

 

[Coug1990]

Apparently so. I don't mind that you are excited about transfers, but in no way does Mayfield or Murray translate in any reasonable fashion to Gubrud, Minshew or Hurts. There is an enormous difference between a guy spending 4-9 months on campus and Mayfield spending FOUR F'ING SEASONS AT OU. It's not even the same conversation and every time that you try to imply that it is, it becomes clearer that you are just arguing for the sake of arguing. But hey, if that floats your boat, do your thing.

I disagree. Bringing in a transfer of any year to compete is bringing in another player. You don't think the other QB's don't notice the new guy on campus that transferred into school?

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that with the success that the program now has, that WSU will sign a QB in the 2020 class? If so, will he be lowly rated?

 

[YakiCoug]

I disagree. Bringing in a transfer of any year to compete is bringing in another player. You don't think the other QB's don't notice the new guy on campus that transferred into school?

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that with the success that the program now has, that WSU will sign a QB in the 2020 class? If so, will he be lowly rated?

Another scenario: if Leach had turned Gubrud away, and then we struggled at the QB position, Flat would be among the first to piss and moan about it.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I disagree. Bringing in a transfer of any year to compete is bringing in another player. You don't think the other QB's don't notice the new guy on campus that transferred into school?

Let me ask you this. Do you believe that with the success that the program now has, that WSU will sign a QB in the 2020 class? If so, will he be lowly rated?

The problem with this discussion is that you are completely ignoring what I'm saying just so you can argue. In general, I'm not opposed to taking a transfer QB. I'm not a fan of grad transfer QB's and think that you ONLY bring them in when you are in a situation that we are in where your presumptive starting QB is gone (for whatever reason) and you f#cked the pooch in recruiting in the two following years and you don't feel that you have a viable, experienced option at the position. Then you look at grad transfer QB's. I was hoping that Cooper, Tinsley or Gordon would get their shot this year but Leach obviously felt that he needed to bring in Gubrud. I'll support the kid 100% now that he's here.

If you have a year where you weren't impressed by the development of a young QB in practice, or that guy leaves.....hell yes you try to find a guy like Kyler Murray or Baker Mayfield to come to your team where they can learn for a year before they hit the field. This retarded myth of "competition" that you guys keep bringing up is just that.....a myth. Leach doesn't bring in QB's just to have an extra a-hole on the roster to push the other guys. If that was really the case, he'd be bringing in two guys every year and forcing out the guys that couldn't cut it. If he's so big on having a huge stack of QB's on a roster, how in the actual f#ck did we end up with only three scholarship QB's in 2014 and 2015.....and a bunch of underclassmen at that? If it's so freaking important to have 5 or 6 QB's on our roster, why wasn't he bringing in 2 QB's every year plus transfers? Oh, because this whole story of "COMPETITION" is horsesh!t that you guys are pushing to justify your sudden obsession with grad transfer QB's.

If Leach finds the right guy to transfer and we have a hole in our roster, sure, look at a guy who's really a good fit for the system. Watching our fans drool over Jalen Hurts......who was never going to come to WSU........or some nobody from Humboldt State or wherever........was pathetic.

On your question of signing a QB in the 2020 class......yes, we are going to sign one and I expect them to be a high 3 star player, just like most of his QB's. It's possible that it's a 4 star guy. You should always take a QB in every class if you can get a good one and yes, that will occasionally mean that someone will leave. That's part of football.

 

[Coug1990]

The problem with this discussion is that you are completely ignoring what I'm saying just so you can argue. In general, I'm not opposed to taking a transfer QB. I'm not a fan of grad transfer QB's and think that you ONLY bring them in when you are in a situation that we are in where your presumptive starting QB is gone (for whatever reason) and you f#cked the pooch in recruiting in the two following years and you don't feel that you have a viable, experienced option at the position. Then you look at grad transfer QB's. I was hoping that Cooper, Tinsley or Gordon would get their shot this year but Leach obviously felt that he needed to bring in Gubrud. I'll support the kid 100% now that he's here.

If you have a year where you weren't impressed by the development of a young QB in practice, or that guy leaves.....hell yes you try to find a guy like Kyler Murray or Baker Mayfield to come to your team where they can learn for a year before they hit the field. This retarded myth of "competition" that you guys keep bringing up is just that.....a myth. Leach doesn't bring in QB's just to have an extra a-hole on the roster to push the other guys. If that was really the case, he'd be bringing in two guys every year and forcing out the guys that couldn't cut it. If he's so big on having a huge stack of QB's on a roster, how in the actual f#ck did we end up with only three scholarship QB's in 2014 and 2015.....and a bunch of underclassmen at that? If it's so freaking important to have 5 or 6 QB's on our roster, why wasn't he bringing in 2 QB's every year plus transfers? Oh, because this whole story of "COMPETITION" is horsesh!t that you guys are pushing to justify your sudden obsession with grad transfer QB's.

If Leach finds the right guy to transfer and we have a hole in our roster, sure, look at a guy who's really a good fit for the system. Watching our fans drool over Jalen Hurts......who was never going to come to WSU........or some nobody from Humboldt State or wherever........was pathetic.

On your question of signing a QB in the 2020 class......yes, we are going to sign one and I expect them to be a high 3 star player, just like most of his QB's. It's possible that it's a 4 star guy. You should always take a QB in every class if you can get a good one and yes, that will occasionally mean that someone will leave. That's part of football.

Why is it that so many people question you? It is not us. It is you, all you. If taking in a transfer QB is not going to hurt recruiting, then what is the problem?

Fans drool over many players. Not sure how this is any different than hoping any high end recruit signs with your school.

One last thing, you accused me of trying to argue with you. Go back, I was answering 95,not you. You are the one who started this back and forth between us. I have been consistent regarding this subject. You are the one who has been enlightened. Don't forget the very first post to start this thread was calling you out.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Why is it that so many people question you? It is not us. It is you, all you. If taking in a transfer QB is not going to hurt recruiting, then what is the problem?

Fans drool over many players. Not sure how this is any different than hoping any high end recruit signs with your school.

One last thing, you accused me of trying to argue with you. Go back, I was answering 95,not you. You are the one who started this back and forth between us. I have been consistent regarding this subject. You are the one who has been enlightened. Don't forget the very first post to start this thread was calling you out.

Why is it a problem to take transfers just for the competition? Ever heard of scholarship limits? Think of all the different times in the past 20 years where we've said, "I wish that we had more guys at ______". You take guys on to fill spots where there is a NEED.....not for the competition. So, yeah, there is a problem in taking QB's that are necessary to actually play. Also, you can think I've been enlightened, but I'd say that if there is any enlightenment needed.....it's in the distinction between a one year grad transfer QB and a 3-4 year transfer QB. There's a big difference and you can't seem to grasp that.

As far as being called out......I've said for weeks that I'd take Gubrud if Leach felt that he was necessary and the callout was made by someone who missed that memo. I can't help it if people only remember what they want to remember.

 

[Stretch 74]

You know I was 100 % agreeing with you, and poking at the board denizens along the way, right?

******************

Oh, really? Wish I would have known THAT!