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Here comes the excuse train...

BleedCrimsonandGray said:
CJD blames NIL for cougs sucking

Not directly, but the timing sure is suspect. 20 minutes on this, in the middle of the season? That's deflecting.
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This just tells me that WSU alums are smarter than the average bears. Paying 20 year old football players tens of thousands of dollars to get a free education isn't a good use of funds.

Better to buy a new levelor or baler.

The market will shake all this out over the next 3 to 5 years. Maybe 25 schools will continue on this nonsensical path in a semi-pro league. The rest will come to their senses and start living within their means.
 
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Will this do more damage than good (i.e., antagonize the fan base, be used against WSU in recruiting)?

Would CJD do this if WSU was riding a five-game winning streak?

What's his objective here: blow off steam, salvage his reputation as a coach on the rise, pass the buck for the team's recent struggles???
 
Observer11 said:
The market will shake all this out over the next 3 to 5 years. Maybe 25 schools will continue on this nonsensical path in a semi-pro league. The rest will come to their senses and start living within their means.
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With $33.6 trillion in national debt and $16.8 in consumer debt, is that in America's collective DNA at this point?
 
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Hey, you'd be on tilt too if your career prospects had gone from the possibility of a Big Ten gig paying something like 5 years / $25m to possibly getting fired and looking at an upside of coaching somewhere in the G of 5 one way or the other, all in the span of 5 weeks or so. He's in damage control mode now.

I don't think this does WSU any favors, nor does it do him any if he plans to stay at WSU. It gives him an excuse, but I don't think bitching about this after the past 5 weeks is going to lead to any kind of meaningful bump in donations to WSU's collectives. Just not how it works. He would have been better off pushing for this and highlighting the discrepancies in more appropriate settings and at a more appropriate time.

As for the substance regarding NIL, he's not wrong, directionally speaking. Check out the link and those figures he gives. He's saying Oregon State is 10x WSU. I don't know if that's precisely accurate, but I have zero reason to believe it isn't that or even worse. I've donated a decent amount of money to WSU, for athletics and otherwise, but I'm not contributing to a NIL fund. I oppose the principle and I am not going to put money into a futile effort. Sorry.

There simply is no way in hell our fans are ever going to be even close to competitive on this, and there are insufficient businesses and the like in the WSU sphere (realistically, Pullman and Spokane, with Spokane tough due to Gonzaga basketball) that would contribute to the small portion of NIL deals at this point that are legit advertising use cases, along with the tiny/nonexistent market WSU is in. No surprise. All as discussed ad nauseum as soon as NIL became a real thing.

One "good" thing about the Mountain West is that although I understand some schools are ahead of WSU there, too (just look around for articles about some of the donations to Boise State's NIL collective, for instance), and many are better-positioned (certainly in terms of local businesses and advertising opportunities), the numbers there are much closer. Hopefully it never really takes off in that conference. This might wind up being, however, one of the things that gets the Beavs into a better conference without WSU.
 
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425cougfan said:
As for the substance regarding NIL, he's not wrong, directionally speaking. Check out the link and those figures he gives. He's saying Oregon State is 10x WSU. I don't know if that's precisely accurate, but I have zero reason to believe it isn't that or even worse ... This might wind up being, however, one of the things that gets the Beavs into a better conference without WSU.
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Endowments: WSU, $1.29B, OSU $819M

Don't see why the NIL would be so out of whack in comparison?

Is this on Schultz or Chun for not "facilitating" whatever it took to get NIL structure in place?

Or is it just a case of bad timing whereby the Beavs nailed their hire with Jonathan Smith and the Cougs had the misfortune of a Covid fallout that led to RoLo's unceremonious exit and partially gutted his staff?

Not to parrot Biggs, but is it fair to say there was never a worse time to take refuge/comfort in a "do more with less" approach to big-time revenue sports than in this current era?
 
425cougfan said:
Hey, you'd be on tilt too if your career prospects had gone from the possibility of a Big Ten gig paying something like 5 years / $25m to possibly getting fired and looking at an upside of coaching somewhere in the G of 5 one way or the other, all in the span of 5 weeks or so. He's in damage control mode now.

I don't think this does WSU any favors, nor does it do him any if he plans to stay at WSU. It gives him an excuse, but I don't think bitching about this after the past 5 weeks is going to lead to any kind of meaningful bump in donations to WSU's collectives. Just not how it works. He would have been better off pushing for this and highlighting the discrepancies in more appropriate settings and at a more appropriate time.

As for the substance regarding NIL, he's not wrong, directionally speaking. Check out the link and those figures he gives. He's saying Oregon State is 10x WSU. I don't know if that's precisely accurate, but I have zero reason to believe it isn't that or even worse. I've donated a decent amount of money to WSU, for athletics and otherwise, but I'm not contributing to a NIL fund. I oppose the principle and I am not going to put money into a futile effort. Sorry.

There simply is no way in hell our fans are ever going to be even close to competitive on this, and there are insufficient businesses and the like in the WSU sphere (realistically, Pullman and Spokane, with Spokane tough due to Gonzaga basketball) that would contribute to the small portion of NIL deals at this point that are legit advertising use cases, along with the tiny/nonexistent market WSU is in. No surprise. All as discussed ad nauseum as soon as NIL became a real thing.

One "good" thing about the Mountain West is that although I understand some schools are ahead of WSU there, too (just look around for articles about some of the donations to Boise State's NIL collective, for instance), and many are better-positioned (certainly in terms of local businesses and advertising opportunities), the numbers there are much closer. Hopefully it never really takes off in that conference. This might wind up being, however, one of the things that gets the Beavs into a better conference without WSU.
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But if it would truly only have been about athletes advertising and spokespeople for local businesses I could be onboard. The pay to play on top of a free education is just too much. Yes, I donate the monthly minimum to our collective, but I am beginning to rethink this.
 
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PeteTheChop said:
With $33.6 trillion in national debt and $16.8 in consumer debt, is that in America's collective DNA at this point?
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Don't know.

As for me, I'm not ringing up a credit card bill so an 18 year old can determine whether he wants to stop in Pullman for a year or so while getting a free education. Already paid for 4 kids college (all gainfully employed, too). At least I got some manual labor and yardwork from them on occasion for the tens of thousands of dollars expended.
 
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CougEd said:
And probably tells us why we are a Mountain West team in the future.
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Once nil started we were finished. At least with the new edition of the conference we will be on a more level playing field financially, i hope
 
PeteTheChop said:
Endowments: WSU, $1.29B, OSU $819M

Don't see why the NIL would be so out of whack in comparison?

Is this on Schultz or Chun for not "facilitating" whatever it took to get NIL structure in place?

Or is it just a case of bad timing whereby the Beavs nailed their hire with Jonathan Smith and the Cougs had the misfortune of a Covid fallout that led to RoLo's unceremonious exit and partially gutted his staff?

Not to parrot Biggs, but is it fair to say there was never a worse time to take refuge/comfort in a "do more with less" approach to big-time revenue sports than in this current era?
Click to expand...
Schulz and Chun have nothing to do with NIL, at least not officially.

Our failure at NIL fundraising points more to a weak, apathetic donor base.
 
BleedCrimsonandGray said:
Schulz and Chun have nothing to do with NIL, at least not officially.

Our failure at NIL fundraising points more to a weak, apathetic donor base.
Click to expand...

I hear ya Bleeder ... but that's kind of like saying parents officially have nothing to do with their children's education when we know they are (or should be) the ultimate drivers of the process.

Is that donor base "weak" and "apathetic" or is just that they've been to led to believe WSU could survive and even thrive simply by doing more with less?

Just about everything worthwhile starts with good leadership
 
PeteTheChop said:
Endowments: WSU, $1.29B, OSU $819M

Don't see why the NIL would be so out of whack in comparison?

Is this on Schultz or Chun for not "facilitating" whatever it took to get NIL structure in place?

Or is it just a case of bad timing whereby the Beavs nailed their hire with Jonathan Smith and the Cougs had the misfortune of a Covid fallout that led to RoLo's unceremonious exit and partially gutted his staff?

Not to parrot Biggs, but is it fair to say there was never a worse time to take refuge/comfort in a "do more with less" approach to big-time revenue sports than in this current era?
Click to expand...
Pete I have no idea where you got your numbers but they are nowhere near accurate.

 
kougkurt said:
But if it would truly only have been about athletes advertising and spokespeople for local businesses I could be onboard. The pay to play on top of a free education is just too much. Yes, I donate the monthly minimum to our collective, but I am beginning to rethink this.
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Yeah the whole thing just spiraled out of control immediately. Thanks Supreme Court. And thanks Mark Emmert and the NCAA. Are all 85 Utah FB players going to be out advertising trucks? Of course not. The only way I see to get the Genie back in the bottle is to institute some rules. And who does that I don't know. If Johny FB want to go down to the Chevy place and get a reasonable paycheck for putting his name on a poster fine. Handing him the keys to a new pickup just for showing up? Not so fine.
 
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CougPatrol said:
So now people are complaining that a coach is being transparent and answering questions openly?
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He's correct operating under the assumption WSU should be playing in the mega-Premier-pay-to-play strata.

If WSU is correctly slotted to their peer institutions and athletic budgets, he's off his rocker.
 
Observer11 said:
He's correct operating under the assumption WSU should be playing in the mega-Premier-pay-to-play strata.

If WSU is correctly slotted to their peer institutions and athletic budgets, he's off his rocker.
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Problem is we have been playing against the best....but that is about to change so we will be slotted appropriately. Not sure the local businesses will like what is about to come....but it is what it is..
 
CougEd said:
Problem is we have been playing against the best....but that is about to change so we will be slotted appropriately. Not sure the local businesses will like what is about to come....but it is what it is..
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The local hotel pricing situation has become the norm. It's not just on game weekends. There is such as shortage that even on non-game weekends, you're still looking at $250/night if not more sometimes.

But yes, it is what it is, and they're going to have to adapt. I don't feel sorry for them, honestly. You probably don't either. Back in the 80s and 90s, when I was young and fun, Pullman operated like a small MWC town. Beer was cheap, pizza was cheap, choices were limited. These changes, for me, are going to feel like the throwback years.
 
CougPatrol said:
Read this article and tell me Dickert is wrong. And this is only the beginning.

Highest paid NIL deals
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Absolute f-ing insanity. O don't get these On3 "valuations". WTF does that mean? And the Social Media followers? Who is that? Not me. And how does that translate into an economic benefit for the donor? All the G-D problems in the world and the country, and this is where our corporate benefactors are throwing their money. This shit will get taxed I assume?

Maybe what we need is a major recession/depression and these rich guys will tighten up their wallets.

Finally. Utah pickups aside, how are these lowly linemen and 2nd stringers feeling about their stars gettiing big bucks while they sweat their assess off in the trenches?
 
dgibbons said:
But at least there would be a TV revenue stream that gives us a wee bit of hope.
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Yeah, it's a choice among these, in my view, and not really a choice since we're stuck with the first:

- Lower-end to mid-tier MWC team over time based on debt overhang, slashed budgets, and the Pullman location being disadvantageous even relative to most MWC schools. No money for recruiting budgets, to pay coaches who are any good, etc. Lose any players good enough to be upper-tier MWC players, or P5 players, to low-end P5 schools, especially if they have some NIL money. Revolving door of coaches.

- Clearly lower-end P5 member, but with P5 media rights revenue coming in and a theoretical ability to compete to a certain extent, much like we had this year prior to the wheels coming off and, frankly, as it has been for nearly the entirety of WSU's athletics history. Could still recruit P5 athletes who didn't want to play in the G of 5. Recruiting would be somewhere in the lower quartile of the Big 12, and WSU still would have its better players getting poached. Still a revolving door of coaches to an extent but not as bad. Could keep some assistants around for a little while and could keep a decent head coach for a little longer since you're paying P5 money ($3.5m in today's dollars) instead of G of 5 money ($1.3 - $1.5m in today's dollars).

The net effect from a competitive standpoint likely is being a relatively bad to mediocre team in either conference. I'd take the P5 option all day for various reasons.
 
Loyal Coug1 said:
Absolute f-ing insanity. O don't get these On3 "valuations". WTF does that mean? And the Social Media followers? Who is that? Not me. And how does that translate into an economic benefit for the donor? All the G-D problems in the world and the country, and this is where our corporate benefactors are throwing their money. This shit will get taxed I assume?

Maybe what we need is a major recession/depression and these rich guys will tighten up their wallets.

Finally. Utah pickups aside, how are these lowly linemen and 2nd stringers feeling about their stars gettiing big bucks while they sweat their assess off in the trenches?
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Holy effing boomer - how do you even get by in today's world being so clueless?

1) Social media makes these players more valuable than ever before. If you, the donor, have a product to sell, who better than a popular athlete like Livvy Dunne to present it to the world via her social media viewers?

2) Recessions generally make rich people richer. Source: see any recession in history

3) 2nd and 3rd tier players (read: employees) make less than the top stars. Welcome to America and capitalism my guy.
 
wazzucougs96 said:
Holy effing boomer - how do you even get by in today's world being so clueless?

1) Social media makes these players more valuable than ever before. If you, the donor, have a product to sell, who better than a popular athlete like Livvy Dunne to present it to the world via her social media viewers?

2) Recessions generally make rich people richer. Source: see any recession in history

3) 2nd and 3rd tier players (read: employees) make less than the top stars. Welcome to America and capitalism my guy.
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I've gotten by just fine in this world, thanks. But points well taken. Given that I have never been on Instagram or Tiktok and have =0= plans to ever go there. And that I never heard of Livvy Dunne until I just looked her up. I guess these social media junkies are like this younger guy who comes to my dog park and buries himself in his phone with his back turned to his dog while it takes a big dump 20 feet away. Probably stocking up on Vuori outfits. Or like the couples that sit in restaurants buried in their phones rather than, like, talking? No thanks but to each his/her own.

And you can make your quite relevant points without being a smarmy F&%$.
 
Loyal Coug1 said:
I guess these social media junkies are like this younger guy who comes to my dog park and buries himself in his phone with his back turned to his dog while it takes a big dump 20 feet away.
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... and then your new lady friend steps in the poop after which you kindly wipe it off her shoe.

Your life in turning into a Seinfeld episode 😃
 
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Observer11 said:
This just tells me that WSU alums are smarter than the average bears. Paying 20 year old football players tens of thousands of dollars to get a free education isn't a good use of funds.

Better to buy a new levelor or baler.

The market will shake all this out over the next 3 to 5 years. Maybe 25 schools will continue on this nonsensical path in a semi-pro league. The rest will come to their senses and start living within their means.
Click to expand...
I'm with you. I'll buy my tickets, and my gear and even make a donation. The AD can do whatever they need with that money. College athletics is so funny now. "Hey, thanks for buying tickets, now would you mind chipping in another $100 bucks so the QB can go out after the game?"
 
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Fab5Coug said:
I'm with you. I'll buy my tickets, and my gear and even make a donation. The AD can do whatever they need with that money. College athletics is so funny now. "Hey, thanks for buying tickets, now would you mind chipping in another $100 bucks so the QB can go out after the game?"
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aka the tip jar at every counter everywhere including places nobody has tipped ever
 
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PeteTheChop said:
... and then your new lady friend steps in the poop after which you kindly wipe it off her shoe.

Your life in turning into a Seinfeld episode 😃
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And your point is what? F you Choppy. Bet you $20 my life is better than some dipshit who goes by "Pete the Chop".
 
Loyal Coug1 said:
And your point is what? F you Choppy. Bet you $20 my life is better than some dipshit who goes by "Pete the Chop".
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All in fun Loyal.

No harm intended and certainly didn't mean to imply you aren't living your best life. ✌️
 
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