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It's July 1st, when is some clarity around this season going to happen?

I figured it was a hmmm. But you’re the expert on Ed interpretation. Two funny could be a new one.

What’s funny is you having this same argument on two different websites and resorting to the same old tactics you always do.

You really were just looking for an internet fight.

Stick to your one line zingers. You expose yourself when you try harder than that.
 
What’s funny is you having this same argument on two different websites and resorting to the same old tactics you always do.

You really were just looking for an internet fight.

Stick to your one line zingers. You expose yourself when you try harder than that.

Hmmm.
 
So what are they?

And edit to add, you’re avoiding to answer what happens to the Athletic Department if there are two years without football.

You think you are smarter than everyone else, think outside your Spock like black and white box.

What do I think will happen if they went two years without generating income ? I think what will happen to a lot of schools. They will fall under the weight of their mounting debt.
 
You think you are smarter than everyone else, think outside your Spock like black and white box.

What do I think will happen if they went two years without generating income ? I think what will happen to a lot of schools. They will fall under the weight of their mounting debt.

So what are the other possibilities for your comments?

I already know what would happen to the Athletic Department with no football for two seasons. But you seem to be conflating deficit and debt.
 
Don’t help Ed. He needs to do his own work. And edit to add, 2009 was like the equivalent of last week for Ed. And if there is going to be speculation about how times have changed, why not speculate that the Washington legislature passes a bill providing state institutions with immunity from COVID related litigation. That’s at least as probable as Ed’s mindless meanderings.
Had no idea what stance he was taking, I don’t see his posts. This site becomes much more pleasant with judicious use of the “ignore” function.

I stand by my previous post, regardless of whose position it may or may not support. I have little expectation that any judge or jury would find in the university’s favor in a suit brought by a sick (or dead) player’s family. Personal responsibility may not be dead, but it’s on life support in a hospital in a third world country with an unstable power grid. And there are armed rebels in the streets.
 
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Had no idea what stance he was taking, I don’t see his posts. This site becomes much more pleasant with judicious use of the “ignore” function.

I stand by my previous post, regardless of whose position it may or may not support. I have little expectation that any judge or jury would find in the university’s favor in a suit brought by a sick (or dead) player’s family. Personal responsibility may not be dead, but it’s on life support in a hospital in a third world country with an unstable power grid. And there are armed rebels in the streets.

So, there is quite a bit to unpack here.

1. This is the real thing. Not a TV legal drama. A plaintiff carries the burden of proof on his claim. The plaintiff must prove the elements of his claim. Judges follow the law. Juries follow jury instructions. The best drama to gain ratings is not part of the deal. Jury trials are generally long and boring. Mindless rants about frivolous lawsuits and meanderings about liability from people that watched 10 minutes of CNN last week are meaningless.

2. If football is played, government agencies the NCAA and Pac-12 will have made the decision to do so. Keep in mind that Inslee let Boeing reopen in April, so it's not like the state's financial position is meaningless to him. Also, WSU won't be some rogue institution, for practical reasons if nothing else. If there is no one to play, WSU isn't going to run 12 intrasquad scrimmages. If for instance the SEC is only conference playing, they aren't going to share with WSU or anyone else. The SEC will keep that rating bonanza to itself.

3. I don't know what you think the plaintiff's cause of action would be, I'm guessing negligence based on your posts. Negligence requires the plaintiff to prove the defendant owed the plaintiff a duty, the defendant breached that duty, the breach caused the plaintiff's damages.

4. If football is being played, that means government authorities (at least WA, OR, CA, AZ, CO and UT), the NCAA and Pac-12 have given it a green light. That's important. The same entities have been or will lay out guidelines for football to be played. For example, Whitman county is in Phase 3 under Inslee's reopening plan, which allows for gatherings of up to 50. Until recently Whitman was well on its way to Phase 4 where there is no limit on gatherings. So assuming Inslee doesn't rewrite the reopening plan, even under Phase 3 football can be played with no one in the stands. The offense and defense can be segregated on the sidelines, and you have two groups under 50 on each sideline. This is setting a duty the scope of the duty- follow the rules and the duty has been satisfied.

WSU tested at least 60 people as of the end of May Chun said there were no positives. WSU will no longer be publically sharing tests results. I assume that you've seen the social media posts the showing guys working out. They set up stations outside (hard to tell where, I assume the practice field) to make sure everyone is six feet apart. They're running the workouts in groups. I don't know what their living situation is, I do know that WSU is placing one student per dorm room for at least the fall semester. Masks are required statewide.

5. How does the breach occur? WSU would have to violate one of the reopening guidelines or other rules in place. Like not requiring masks in position group meetings are something like that. So, if a 19 year old student-athlete were to go to a party with underage drinking that 51 or more people attended, and the contact tracing indicates that's where he was exposed, WSU did not breach any duty to that student-athlete. This goes to the causation element as well.

6. We will assume there are damages since there is a dead person.

7. If all of the four elements are proven by the plaintiff, WSU still has defenses like a waiver and assumption of risk. This is why I've brought up concussions. I think we can assume that football players know about the virus, the risks of returning to campus and playing football, just like they know about the risks of physical injury and concussion in playing football. They don't have to do it. No one is compelling them to play or return to campus or go to school. They are assuming the risk. Just like Connor Halliday had no claim against WSU for his broken leg- he assumed the risk.

8. The case would have to survive summary judgment to even get to a jury. If the case survives summary judgment, the jury must find for the plaintiff on all of the elements. As mentioned above, there are instructions given to the jury on how this works. Even if one or two of the jurors decide to ignore the instructions because they feel bad for the plaintiff, hate WSU, think Rolovich is a jerk or whatever, that doesn't mean anything.

9. Underlying all of this the data regarding the virus. The risk for someone college age becoming sick (even if they're positive) is slim. The risk of someone college age becoming sick enough to hospitalization is slimmer. The risk of someone college age dying from the virus are minuscule. The risks of someone college age in peak physical condition dying are even slimmer.

Overall, there is much more to it than an erosion of personal responsibility. This is just a brief summary of what the analysis would look like.
 
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So, there is quite a bit to unpack here.

1. This is the real thing. Not a TV legal drama. A plaintiff carries the burden of proof on his claim. The plaintiff must prove the elements of his claim. Judges follow the law. Juries follow jury instructions. The best drama to gain ratings is not part of the deal. Jury trials are generally long and boring. Mindless rants about frivolous lawsuits and meanderings about liability from people that watched 10 minutes of CNN last week are meaningless.

2. If football is played, government agencies the NCAA and Pac-12 will have made the decision to do so. Keep in mind that Inslee let Boeing reopen in April, so it's not like the state's financial position is meaningless to him. Also, WSU won't be some rogue institution, for practical reasons if nothing else. If there is no one to play, WSU isn't going to run 12 intrasquad scrimmages. If for instance the SEC is only conference playing, they aren't going to share with WSU or anyone else. The SEC will keep that rating bonanza to itself.

3. I don't know what you think the plaintiff's cause of action would be, I'm guessing negligence based on your posts. Negligence requires the plaintiff to prove the defendant owed the plaintiff a duty, the defendant breached that duty, the breach caused the plaintiff's damages.

4. If football is being played, that means government authorities (at least WA, OR, CA, AZ, CO and UT), the NCAA and Pac-12 have given it a green light. That's important. The same entities have been or will lay out guidelines for football to be played. For example, Whitman county is in Phase 3 under Inslee's reopening plan, which allows for gatherings of up to 50. Until recently Whitman was well on its way to Phase 4 where there is no limit on gatherings. So assuming Inslee doesn't rewrite the reopening plan, even under Phase 3 football can be played with no one in the stands. The offense and defense can be segregated on the sidelines, and you have two groups under 50 on each sideline. This is setting a duty the scope of the duty- follow the rules and the duty has been satisfied.

WSU tested at least 60 people as of the end of May Chun said there were no positives. WSU will no longer be publically sharing tests results. I assume that you've seen the social media posts the showing guys working out. They set up stations outside (hard to tell where, I assume the practice field) to make sure everyone is six feet apart. They're running the workouts in groups. I don't know what their living situation is, I do know that WSU is placing one student per dorm room for at least the fall semester. Masks are required statewide.

5. How does the breach occur? WSU would have to violate one of the reopening guidelines or other rules in place. Like not requiring masks in position group meetings are something like that. So, if a 19 year old student-athlete were to go to a party with underage drinking that 51 or more people attended, and the contact tracing indicates that's where he was exposed, WSU did not breach any duty to that student-athlete. This goes to the causation element as well.

6. We will assume there are damages since there is a dead person.

7. If all of the four elements are proven by the plaintiff, WSU still has defenses like a waiver and assumption of risk. This is why I've brought up concussions. I think we can assume that football players know about the virus, the risks of returning to campus and playing football, just like they know about the risks of physical injury and concussion in playing football. They don't have to do it. No one is compelling them to play or return to campus or go to school. They are assuming the risk. Just like Connor Halliday had no claim against WSU for his broken leg- he assumed the risk.

8. The case would have to survive summary judgment to even get to a jury. If the case survives summary judgment, the jury must find for the plaintiff on all of the elements. As mentioned above, there are instructions given to the jury on how this works. Even if one or two of the jurors decide to ignore the instructions because they feel bad for the plaintiff, hate WSU, think Rolovich is a jerk or whatever, that doesn't mean anything.

9. Underlying all of this the data regarding the virus. The risk for someone college age becoming sick (even if they're positive) is slim. The risk of someone college age becoming sick enough to hospitalization is slimmer. The risk of someone college age dying from the virus are minuscule. The risks of someone college age in peak physical condition dying are even slimmer.

Overall, there is much more to it than an erosion of personal responsibility. This is just a brief summary of what the analysis would look like.
None of that matters, because the university would settle. Regardless of legalities, they lose the PR battle, and it only gets worse if they drag a grieving family into a courtroom.
 
None of that matters, because the university would settle. Regardless of legalities, they lose the PR battle, and it only gets worse if they drag a grieving family into a courtroom.

If your opinion is based on TV legal dramas you should say that. That’s fine. But you should expect people to think more critically about the subject than you do. Share real analysis of why WSU would settle, if you have something. WSU already looks bad since it supports an athletic department that losses money and engages in the barbaric sport of football.

If you’re worried about PR, if football happens that means numerous states, the NCAA and the PAC-12 have green lighted football. If WSU does not go along with it, there will be a serious PR problem and WSU’s membership in the Pac-12 will be at stake.
 
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Dgibb brings up a good point regarding WSUs P12 membership. As it stands today, WSU must prepare to play the upcoming season however it may look. On schedule, delayed a month or two, or moved to Spring. We are in no position to "set the tone" with our decision. We must be complicit followers in this regard.
 
Dgibb brings up a good point regarding WSUs P12 membership. As it stands today, WSU must prepare to play the upcoming season however it may look. On schedule, delayed a month or two, or moved to Spring. We are in no position to "set the tone" with our decision. We must be complicit followers in this regard.
That’s right, eventually the NCAA will have to take firm stand regarding whether and how the season will be played. As I have said before, I don’t see the NCAA being particularly courageous so expect they will follow the lead stablished by the pro sports leagues. It gives them cover. So keep an eye on how the abbreviated MLB season goes and on what the NFL decides. If the NCAA says play, I’m pretty sure WSU will play.

Further confusing things though, some state governors (Oregon and interestingly South Carolina) have made noises indicating they don’t favor starting the college football season on time so that will be a factor for the NCAA to consider as well.
 
So what are the other possibilities for your comments?

I already know what would happen to the Athletic Department with no football for two seasons. But you seem to be conflating deficit and debt.
No I am not conflating deficit with debt. Let's say I have 100000 in my bank account. Every month I have a deficit of 10k. I have racked up no debt for the first 10 mos of the deficit. Month 11, I need to take money from somewhere else. At some point the money runs out. So call it what you would like....if they don't have a funding source to bail them out from the mounting deficit, like borrowing money, then they crumble of the weight of their debt.
 
Why is this shocking?

The same thing is going to happen to businesses when the PPP money runs out as long as this "phase" debacle continues. It already has shuttered dozens of restaurants in the State of Washington.

Eventually it works its way up to even the state employees. Inslee better hope he's got a new job in DC in the Biden administration before the pink slips go out in Olympia.
 
No I am not conflating deficit with debt. Let's say I have 100000 in my bank account. Every month I have a deficit of 10k. I have racked up no debt for the first 10 mos of the deficit. Month 11, I need to take money from somewhere else. At some point the money runs out. So call it what you would like....if they don't have a funding source to bail them out from the mounting deficit, like borrowing money, then they crumble of the weight of their debt.

Let’s say you have another account with more money in it. You spend your extra $10,000 a year over budget. That doesn’t mean a debt is incurred.

So, you don’t understand cash flow and you were conflating debt and deficit.
 
Why is this shocking?

The same thing is going to happen to businesses when the PPP money runs out as long as this "phase" debacle continues. It already has shuttered dozens of restaurants in the State of Washington.

Eventually it works its way up to even the state employees. Inslee better hope he's got a new job in DC in the Biden administration before the pink slips go out in Olympia.
You say this as if it won't happen in most other states as well, if things stay on this track
 
The planes are almost to the end of the runway.... engines are gonna be turned off... no one is taking flight.
 
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