The Flu is "pussification of society", and flu science is probably wrong, because butter.
If you weren't real, no one could create idiocy like you toss out.
KSU vs WSU
- Thread starter Flatlandcoug
- Start date
If you weren't real, no one could create idiocy like you toss out.
Bear Bryant would laugh at you for touting your big practice credentials, then think you were an idiot for insisting on trying to bring him into your Paul Wulff defenses.
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Well, you said that you played football with the flu… and you are better than Tuel because the flu didn't really affect you… That makes you… hot… like, sizzling. Grrrrr (licking lips). To not laugh, and take this portion seriously enough to get "creeped out" shows how off kilter you are. This is kind of a joke.
PLEASE keep this kind of topic alive. Keep going, Sponge. This is one debate/argument I KNOW I'm correct. I KNOW you are wrong. It's so plain, it's incredible. I have so many articles ready to link to, so we can talk about this all day. This can be the next thread that lasts 20 pages because I will stay focused on such an asinine thought process as you've displayed. Flu doesn't affect mental faculties… good one, Sponge. Here's the list of scientific articles I'll start with. So keep this up, Sponge. you arguing science is gonna be fun. Now this is just from the NIAID. If this continues through the applicable articles here, I'll move to the CDC. After that, I'll go to the Journal.
http://www.niaid.nih.gov/news/newsreleases/topics/Pages/fluReleases.aspx
So tell me it again. The flu doesn't affect decision making, is that right? Or was it the flu doesn't affect you physically enough to say a person COULD make a mistake, physically? I don't remember so I need clarity on your position here… was it the physical affects or the mental affects you disagree with scientists with?
I get that it is a joke.The licking your lips and the grrr is just not very funny. Sorry.
It has nothing to do with me being better than Tuel. Not sure how you got that. He wanted to play. And he NEVER blamed his dumb desicion not to get out of bounds on the flu. Only on this board would that even be considered.
He made a dumb decision that has nothing to do with the flu. You can pull all the CDC data you want, but before you do, find me a football player or coach who blamed a bad decision they made on the flu.
And btw, the CDC is a highly criticized organization.
It has nothing to do with me being better than Tuel. Not sure how you got that. He wanted to play. And he NEVER blamed his dumb desicion not to get out of bounds on the flu. Only on this board would that even be considered.
He made a dumb decision that has nothing to do with the flu. You can pull all the CDC data you want, but before you do, find me a football player or coach who blamed a bad decision they made on the flu.
And btw, the CDC is a highly criticized organization.
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Actually, he would hold me in higher esteem than people like you who have never played a down of football yet pretend they are experts in the game. The fact that you think the flu made Tuel take on a linebacker proves that you have never played.
This is the crux of the whole thing… You don't know that.
So the CDC is a highly criticized organization. OK. Is the NIAID? Is the Journal of Medicine. How about the Family Practitioners of America? I can go on…. Just so you know, I have a family member in the medical field so I can go on and on. You are quite literally, wrong.
Well, if your relatives can show me studies that cause qb's to take on linebackers, then I'll say that you are correct. Until then, not so much.
And if what you are saying were true, you would never hear of a player playing any sport with the catastrophic flu.
And now that I know your bar for "football insider" is "made a play on a guy better than me in practice one time", I don't have to listen to your "you never _____" claims, because you're not even Al Bundy- you're a guy who tackled Al Bundy once in practice. Yeah, I've done stuff like that, superstar.
No, I think putting your injury prone QB in when he wasn't cleared to start the game and the backup is rolling is a dumb decision- it's your fervor that made you inexplicably decide that the best way to defend this particular awful coaching decision was to deny that the flu is a thing, which, you're really pushing a heavy boulder up a steep hill, and "the bad coach made another bad decision" seems way more clear, but some people gotta make it tough.
I just hope that when science catches up to your revolutionary flu views, that those millions of fakers who have died of the flu come back to show you their gratitude.
Yeah, Kevin Hardy=Al Bundy.
You act like the flu is the bubonic plague.
As I told 95, if the catastrophic flu caused such mental lapses as to take on a linebacker in games, nobody would ever play any sport with the flu.
The fact that there are countless players who have played with the flu proves you a fool.
And the fact that you, with all your years of football wisdom can't name A. SINGLE. ONE. who played under the circumstances Tuel did proves the old coach, and you, fools. As for my flu opinions, I'm just going with science, as opposed to you who thinks the flu is like... a hangnail, maybe? Or getting the sun in your eyes?
Well....
95....maybe you can point to just one article that a plauyer undergoes protocol , they are cleared to play by a team physician who is on the sidelines to make just these type of determinations, and that there was a injury result of a decision in the first ten plays after being in that was inFLUenced by the flu. Yes, I would agree with your articles if the game was later, that the said player didn't already make three decisions in a span of 10 seconds that were all correct decisions.
And the difference between you , I and Jeff Tuel for example is he was cleared by a doc, he had fluids given to him via an IV, all treatments we don't have at our disposal.
I would suspect if you asked 100 team doctors out in the NCAA, it is way far more likely that adrenaline was the cause after making three sound decisions in a span of ten seconds.
The flu thing again. Jesus.
Was Tuel Sick? Yes.
Did he have to play that game? No.
As in was it life or death for the team / win/ lose? No
We were playing Idaho State. Up 14-0. With an experienced QB.
Did we have anything to gain by him playing? Nothing except more experience for him/
Did the cost (relapse/injury) outweigh the risk? Yes. This was a do or die year for Wulff. He had QB injuries before he needs everyone healthy.
Everything points to him not playing that game.
If this was the apple cup I would understand. But because it was 14-0 against an FCS opponent i just don't see how it was ever a good or smart idea to play your starting QB who has the flu.
Was Tuel Sick? Yes.
Did he have to play that game? No.
As in was it life or death for the team / win/ lose? No
We were playing Idaho State. Up 14-0. With an experienced QB.
Did we have anything to gain by him playing? Nothing except more experience for him/
Did the cost (relapse/injury) outweigh the risk? Yes. This was a do or die year for Wulff. He had QB injuries before he needs everyone healthy.
Everything points to him not playing that game.
If this was the apple cup I would understand. But because it was 14-0 against an FCS opponent i just don't see how it was ever a good or smart idea to play your starting QB who has the flu.
What is your understanding of adrenaline and its affect on players in the spur of the moment. Does it mimic the flu affect, where you suddenly make the wrong decision after making three correct ones in a 10 second span?
I've tried to pull this play up to check "super healthy Jeff Tuel"- is it on YouTube?
Why do you act like coaches make decision based on being up against who you and I think as an inferior opponent. Everything you just said as a fan I agree with. Are we in agreement if he tweaked his ankle enough where they went inside and xrayed it, delayed his starting and we were up by 14 in the first quarter and it was determined there was no damage, and that he could play you would still sit him? And isn't the reason you and I would sit him is because of the risk to us does not seem worth it?
So basically the flu only causes qb's to have mebtal lapses and run into linebackers against lower tier teams like Idaho St? Too funny.
There's "inferior opponents" and "games you win by taking the field"- our opponents had plenty of the latter during Wulff's first two years, and for Wulff not to recognize what one looked like from the other side and risk his injury prone QB who wasn't cleared to start the game when his replacement was rolling- bad coaching from a bad coach. Or it would happen all the time.
Three correct decisions, guys. You know, like throwing with his right hand instead of his left, not trying to field the shotgun snap with his feet and and not running the wrong direction. Ed wins.
Why is Breske making that decision? Why is Leach not putting his team together?
Actually, based on the level of science you use, it's not even a discussion. The only two players you could name who came in sick when they weren't cleared to start the game were Tuel... And Marshawn Lynch. And Lynch and Tuel both took on LB's. So that proves the flu causes people to take on LB's, and a good coach would have known that.
Gawd You're an idiot. The flu didnt cause Marshawn Lynch to take on linebackers..that is in his job description. Hello!
Nope, pretty sure, based on the info you gave me, it was the flu. I mean, it's happened in EVERY example YOU provided- tell me when it hasn't though, so I can agree with you.
Breske is responsible for coordinating the defense. It's his job to monitor the defensive unit as a whole, and coordinate their play. He should be the first one to notice if there are gaps in the roster / open spaces and as a recruiter and coach of the secondary he should be the one to help recruit and stay on top of that position.
He didn't and in 2014 he played a lot of freshmen. He had 3 years to plan for what would happen after Buchanon/Horton/Washington etc. left, he should have looked at 2011 class seen there was nobody and immediately took steps to catch back up depth wise.
He didn't and while he had young guys like White and Porter, Pippins, Hameed, Lemora etc. you still need a smooth stable of sophs/juniors to transition into.
We went from seniors to fresh and it showed, and the responsibility falls on Breske to insure he had the right depth.
If it isn't addressed that someone isn't doing their job. Leach addressed it. DC fired 7 dbs taken in the incoming class. The headman corrected the problem.
As opposed to Wulff who never corrected the O-line issue, and failed to address it properly.
Oh
Charleston Southern was supposed to be a cupcake on Florida's 2009 college football schedule but it turned out to be one of toughest games of receiver Riley Cooper's career.
Cooper was battling the flu but was still game to play and survived the entire game, catching five passes for 105 yards.
But his feat was not without consequences; he spewed vomit all over the field right before the end of the first half. Who was Coopers coach?
Not so in Tucson last night. The Arizona Wildcats were up four and threatening midway through final quarter of their game against conference rival USC when quarterback Matt Scott suffered a head injury. Arizona had started the possession on USC's 49-yard line, and advanced to the 42 after a run by Ka'Deem Carey. From there, the drive was all Scott: a 2-yard rush, then a 5-yard rush for the first down. A complete pass from Scott to WR David Richards, a 1-yard rush by Scott, and then the play you see above: Scott running for a first down and getting kneed in the head by T.J. McDonald as he slides into the turf. Timeout Arizona. Directly after the play and during the break, Scott apparently vomited, profusely and repeatedly. Here's the back-and-forth between announcers Joe Tessitore and Matt Millen:
Millen: Matt Scott's throwing up on the 28-yard line.
Tessitore: That's not a good sign...
Millen: That's not good. Get him out of the game.
Tessitore: Any neurologist will tell you that is one of the symptoms and signs of a concussion...is vomiting in reaction to being hit in the head. But he's walking it off right now, out around the fourteen-yard line.
Play resumed and Matt Scott stayed under center. Scott handed the ball off to Carey on first down, then rushed again, for a loss this time. Then he tossed a touchdown, putting the Wildcats up by 11. Rich Rodriguez finally subbed Scott out for the next drive, and his replacement never threw a pass. The Los Angeles Times says Scott vomited again on the bench after being subbed out.
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You mean he didn't offer a bunch of kids and had five committed in 2012? Or in 2010 I believe he had four committed and had two late defections, one to CU and the other to UCLA.
Lawrence Timmons looks like he's struggling a little bit on Monday night.
Actually, maybe he's doing great. Because despite the fact that he's throwing up a bunch, he keeps playing football. We saw the Steelers linebacker gack -- casually -- before aTexans second down near the red zone.
The most impressive part?
Timmons would manage a sack just a short while later.
2012 - Tailulu, Feddie Davey, David Buchanon
2011 #of DBs - 1 - Waseem the gumbo dumbo
2010 Dbs - 4 - Simmons, Horton, Clark Buchanon
Now which one of these classes produced ZERO dbs on the roster... I'll give you a hint 2011.
Now After Horton, and Buchanon, left 2013...which class becomes important in 2014... ah yes..2011...the one with ZERO people in it.
You can argue ALL day with me but you will never be right about this stuff.
And your point? Is not the crux of the crux of the argument that the flu made him do it?
No, that's what you've chosen to focus your argument on. The crux of the argument is that Wulff made a bad decision on five or six levels (I broke it down before)- that's why you can't find circumstances like it from anyone else.
Oh Gawd I foolishly decided to scan this thread. What a mistake. WTF is wrong with you people? Enough with the Wulff crap - he's been gone for FOUR years. Enough with the revisionist history. Geezus. And enough with the debating CML. He is a proven quantity over a couple of decades, he is doing all (well most of) the right things, most importantly he is not going anywhere. Get a grip, get a life, get off this site, whatever it takes.
I have shown you studies and articles that show confusion, spacial visual issues and dizziness. You've yet to show me anything other than your diluted thought that you are better than Tuel because the flu didn't affect you when you played football (by the way… good for you). You've yet to show me if Tuel was feeling any of these things during the play in question, or any play for that matter. You can't even tell me what symptoms he had at any given time! He was cleared by a doctor… So he was good?! NO Flu Symptoms at all???! You do realize, the flu is an infection of the respiratory system. If it isn't in the lunges and upper respiratory system, it isn't the flu. So no matter how much fluids he had, that only helps with the dehydration of puking. IV of fluids affects no other symptom. And actually, many times dizziness is set on AFTER puking… It's the puking that can cause dizziness. So the idea that the IV fixed all, is not correct in any way. It probably helped him from cramping up… I guess that's something. But if he had ANY other symptom, that IV did nothing.
Don't confuse me with any others in this other portion of this debate. I really don't care whom was at fault. It happened. I think Ed is right that there are many, many times players go in sick. How affective they are in a comparison to being 100% healthy is a whole other debate. Especially in the Pro's, it's their job. Whether it's a good thing or a bad thing, they go to work sick… whatever… At this game, on the college level… meh. Water under the bridge.
So for me, this whole thing is about Sponge denying science. This isn't the Global Warming that can be debatable for some. This isn't way-back-when, when the thought of a cell making up a body was Heresy. This is decades and decades of KNOWING what the flu is, what it does and the symptoms displayed! And Sponge refuses to think that CONFUSION, DIZZINESS and SPACIAL VISUAL ISSUES, among so many other symptoms, could not affect any given player…I guess we could even say he's denying these issues of humans in general. WOW.
So Sponge, you didn't answer my question… what part of science is it you disagree with? Was it the physical or the "above the shoulders" symptoms that you disagree with? The more specific an answer, the more we can move this along…. Or you can give me your diversion answer of, "Show me a study that shows a football QB takes on an LB because of the flu" schtick and get no where.
You can list symptoms until you are blue in the face. If they flu caused people to make really bad decisions in vivo(ie in real life) then nobody would ever be allowed to play in he game. I am sure the common cold has pretty similar symptoms if you were to look them up. You never hear anyone missing a game because they have the cold do you?
And if he was that bad where he didn't have his mental faculties, he wouldn't have wanted to go in the game!
Again, answer the question. What scientific facts do you disagree with?
What you posted above is a discussion on how much a person is affected by the symptoms are and specifically how the sideline doctor and/or coaches evaluate the players to see if they are OK to be on the field. And above, you are saying he wouldn't have wanted to go in the game if he felt kinda icky… Which is it?! You are trying to change the topic. I'm staying focused on your previous statements. You stated that the flu wouldn't make a QB be stupid or "take on an LB". I've shown you FACTS that would indicate confusion, vision perspective issues and dizziness affect those with the flu. You are making black and white statements that there is no way it could have happened to Tuel. I'm saying it COULD because the doctor, the coach, you nor me know what was going on in his head (IE he felt dizziness but lied because he's a competitor, or something like that). We're all saying the doctor cleared him. You appear to say that means he had NO symptoms that could have affected him. I'm saying "How do you know?" because symptoms, especially with the flu, come and go. One moment your OK, the next it's hard to stand. OR he could have lied to the doctor. Either way, I don't know how you know nothing was affecting him. YOU are making the blanket statement that this DID NOT affect him. I'm saying it could have, most likely did.
Please answer the question. What scientific symptoms do you disagree with?
I really don't want to comment further on this topic, but the FACT that Tuel was on an IV before the game demonstrates a concern about dehydration, but it also shows the staff wanted him as an option to play IF NECESSARY. The legitimate point that's been made many times over here, yet continues to be ignored, is that it wasn't necessary to play him. It's really not difficult to understand that dehydration affects mind and body. For example, would someone taking the SAT/ACT the day after getting blitzed watching the 2012 BYU-WSU game do better or worse than someone who watched the game sober? Would that same dehydrated head be less alert driving/have slower response times in heavy traffic than someone who watched the game sober? The studies speak for themselves, as does the asinine decision to play Tuel in that game. Anyone who defends it is easily dismissed, especially when they defame the player in question.
And I am saying if he was experienceing any if the symptoms that would make him take on a linebacker, he wouldn't have gone into the game...or be cleared to go in the game.
You know sometimes the simplest explanation ls in life are the most accurate. In this example, he simply made a bad decision.
So he had the flu bad enough that he wasn't cleared to start, but he had no symptoms? How do you come up with that? That's not how the flu works. Not at all.
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