NFL Draft is over. Mata'afa and O'Connell go undrafted
- Thread starter ScottHood
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Kid can ball, he'll get a look somewhere, but just doesn't fall into a category for the NFL.
Does that speak volumes about what the coaches do to get the team to 9 wins and volumes about what the coaches and system don’t do to make the team great?
Well they will receive free agent contracts and will have to prove themselves The NFL scouts usually do a through job. The first five rounds are usually well thought out , The last 2 rounds are like a pokemon scramble . iI is too bad since all drafted players get a signing bonus but no real guaranteed money.I d like to think they have a good chance to stick with a team. It shows that Hercules got bad advice and should have stayed a year.
he should get to come back. all undrafted players should. it's a bs system that screws players on the fringes.
That rule should change but Mata'afa will get signed pretty quickly on a free agent deal and probably end up in a better situation than if he was picked toward the end of the draft. He should have some options.
Mata Afa undrafted was a bit of a surprise considering his superb on-field play. It just goes to show, you don't work out for the combine unless you have done serious serious prep work with trainers before hand. Considering his sub-par performances all around, I have to believe, Hercules was not prepped by guys who knew what they are doing, if at all. Any half arsed sprint coach can shave 3 10th of a non-track/football players 40 time, if you give him/her three weeks. Based on what I saw on-the-field, I bet I could have had him running sub 4.5. That Millard-like first step means that kid has serious power in that arse of his, it's basic physics. That's 2/3s of what you need to run a fast 40/jump high and long etc. right there.
As for Cody, once the Times reporter wrote that he had difficulty even doing drills, let alone doing them well. it was clear that he was free agent material.
As for Cody, once the Times reporter wrote that he had difficulty even doing drills, let alone doing them well. it was clear that he was free agent material.
Eukale to the Browns and Luvu to the Jets per Stefanie Loh.
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ndup-hercules-mataafa-signs-with-the-vikings/
https://www.seattletimes.com/sports...ndup-hercules-mataafa-signs-with-the-vikings/
Many of us saw the clip of Cody flubbing up that one drill. Isolated maybe, but it was bad. The sidelines were laughing.
The draft I 256 picks. The FBS has 128 teams. 64 in the Power 5. So if each Power 5 team gets 3 picked, and each Group of 5 gets 1, that's the draft. Throw in a few FCS picks to replace some of the above. So while the rounds are disappointing, only getting 2 picks is not horrible.
He did it later in a conference challenge and did just fine.
https://www.all-starfootballchallenge.com/page/show/3925164-2018-participants
https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/28/17293694/nfl-draft-udfa-signings-tracker-results-2018
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Yes it would seem that these types of basic drills would have been done in training and footwork emphasized in training and coaching. I criticized the coaching of the O line but people lept to the coaches defense.He probably practiced the drill on his own. It would take someone with more knowledge than me to know if footwork and basics should have been stressed with someone of O Connel s size. When i saw the tape i felt sorry for the big guy who was probably embarrassed.
Find the system that will take a bunch of 2 & 3 star players and even walk-ons and make the team a great one and you should patent it.
Madison- 2 Star
Falk-Walk-on
Herc- 3 star
Luvu-2 star
O'connel-3 star
Actually really remarkable with that group as the core of the team that they were able to win 26 games the last 3 years and all of them will get at least some time as NFL players.
Hopefully Leach is getting players that start out with a higher talent level and have a higher ceiling now, because you can not develop these overachiever winning teams forever.
Frankly outside of a few legendary teams not a lot of guys get picked in any single year (when I say legendary I'm talking 2001 Miami territory). If it reaches the point where 4ish players get drafted annually and basically every other senior contributor gets a free agent contract then that shows the necessary depth of talent to win games comsistently. We aren't that far away from that point
Not to beat you up too much, but A. Sub 4.5 would be a ridiculous time for a guy his size, so to expect that time with a marginal track coach working with him is a bit silly. B. I guarantee you he worked with a legit performance group to prepare. He's a good athlete but he's not elite. There are very few Bradley Chubbs. We all love Herc but he's not physically on that level. C. Yes he had a helluva year unfortunately the NFL scouting completely discounts what a guy like him does if he doesn't look like an NFL body. Herc needed to either be 275+ or have film where his hand wasn't in the dirt. He had neither. I still thought he'd get drafted with all of his production, but that is the NFL.
Were you aware that 2 similarly sized "edge" rushers the same size as Hercules ran sub 4.5. and he had 12 TFLs and 6 more sacks than them combined last year? Kylie Fitts, 6th round edge rusher of Utah out weighs him by 10 pounds and ran a 10th faster, but he could only manage 4 sacks and 4 TFL. Nwosu of USC, second round edge rusher, is exactly the same size as Hercules, but went a 10th faster as well, managed only 7.5 TFL. (That blows your "NFL tweener" argument out of the water right there.) The difference was that Nwosu was managed properly at the combine, doing only the drills he was ready for. Mata Afa on the other hand did all drills, and only hurt his draft prospects. If, as you claim, Hercules is a second tier talent, that was his combine numbers are truly indicative of his athletic ability, you know what you do? You "Luke Falk" the combine. You can only hurt your draft prospects. Hercules didn't, and went from a projected 2-3 rounder to a free agent.
You don't do what Mata Afa did and does on the the field without top tier talent. You don't bytch slap the P-12 for two straight season with second tier skills as you claim. Also unlike, unlike Millard, who had great NFL caliber stablemates, teams could and did double and triple team the kid. No, you are down grading his "talent" due to his surprisingly sub par combine performance alone. Unless you know who "prep" him for the combine, and disclosed it, I stand by my initial premise that he wasn't ready and was mismanaged, assuming he was "managed,and you are just blowing smoke. You just don't "smoke and mirrors" your way to 22.5 TFL and 10.5 sacks in the Pac-12, not now, not ever.
Dylan Hanser signs with Atlanta.https://www.sbnation.com/nfl/2018/4/28/17293694/nfl-draft-udfa-signings-tracker-results-2018 There's a WR from Limestone going to Texas. Are they the Limestone Cowboys?
No doubting Mat'afa was productive in college , but he did not get that production from being an "edge usher". Those 2 players that you are comparing him to, actually played on the edge ( defensive end and linebacker). There is a ton more involved in playing on the edge than just shaving some time off of a 40 time. You say those players are similar in size to Mat'afa which is misleading. Both of those other players are "long". They both have arm lengths that are more than 2 inches longer than Mata'afa. That and the ability to move fluidly with good hip movement are big deals if you want to be a draftable edge rusher. Again those are much important than if Mat'afa could shave tenths of seconds off of his 40 time.
As mentioned above by pingdude4, you just became guilty of an "apples and oranges" thing.
Nwosu was a linebacker in college, Hercules was not. Nwosu appeared in 49 games as a linebacker for the Trojans and there are hours and hours of film for scouts to analyze to determine if he can handle duties as an NFL linebacker. Mata'afa played interior line for the most part in 2017 and played on the DL his whole career.
Kylie Fitts is 6'4" and 265 lbs playing defensive end. Hercules is 6'2" and 252 lbs and again, played mostly on the interior. Fitts is 2" taller and can easily get to 275 lbs with a pretty good chance that it won't affect his mobility. Hercules with another 23 lbs likely quickly loses that quick first move that set him apart.
Hercules doesn't compare favorably with either one of them when it comes to measurables and experience at their respective positions and we all knew that going into the draft. Hercules had great production in college and if the NFL drafted on "motor" and "heart", he would have been a 2nd rounder. They obviously didn't feel that way.
All you ever hear about from these guys is about a players motor, yet when one of the best (if not tTHE best) motor in this draft comes up they all pass. It's supposed to be the magic intangible, and when it's an under sized guy from Bama or ND, then that's all the reason they need, but Herc is from shitty WSU who plays in the shitty P12, so meh.
What he did can't be understated- if it was so easy to perform how he did, then everyone would he doing it.
Why do you believe he had sub par training? There are plenty of guys who have that initial burst and are slower than molasses in the 40. Where do you play a guy who has zero back pedal, not a great 40 time, and his biggest strength was slipping the gap with his lightening first step. Chris Peterson showed how to neutralize that initial step.
Both of those guys ran 4.65 and 4.7 not sub 4.5. At 250+ anything under 4.5 is freakish. Mataafa could work with the best track coach in the world for a year straight and would not run a sub 4.5. He is a good athlete he’s not a freakish athlete (think jadaveon clowny...that’s basically what you are asking of him). And for the record I think he’s a helluva football player, and I would have had him as probably a 4th round grade. Nobody with any real NFL knowledge EVER had him as a 2-3 rd rounder. And I don’t know for certain that he worked with coaches to prepare for the draft but I’d be shocked if he didn’t. It’s not like he pulled an Orlando Brown. if you want to argue whether or not he should have done some of the drills, I guess that’s fair now in hindsight. I just think he’s a guy that has really good football speed and instincts but NFL teams have a hard time figuring out where to put him. From their perspective he’s gonna get roughed up by NFL O Linemen if his hand is in the dirt at 250 and there’s zero tape of him coming off the edge in a two point stance. Doesn’t mean they are right, but most of those guys have a tough time thinking outside the box. If Russell Wilson didn’t turn into a star no way Baker Mayfield goes #1. Hopefully Mataafa blazes a new trail for a different type of D Lineman.
What were Mataafa’s grade like?
Did he have an option to come back? Casto mailed it in for his junior year on the academic front. Maybe Herc went down the same path.
Did he have an option to come back? Casto mailed it in for his junior year on the academic front. Maybe Herc went down the same path.
He's still the same size.
The Vikings head coach has some success with undersized defenders from this area.
If not, there is always Canada.
Hey, Cliff, as in "Clavin," spoken like a guy who has never taken physics. You can't have a quick first step without power: ma=F. Name me a guy who has a quick first step but can't run the 40, who isn't the size of a barn.
As for being prepped properly, Mata Afa, in both of his 40s, stood up at the start, overstrided out of the box, had no transition phase to speak of or no knee lift in the maintainance phase. The only thing he did well was relax, the problem was he relaxed throughout, you are only supposed to relax in the maintainance phase, which in the 40 is the last 5-8 yards, at most. If he paid someone to train him to do that, twice, he was robbed at gun point.
Don't underestimate how important 40 times are considered in the NFL. Do you remember Ricky Reynolds, he went from a free agent/late round draft pick (in the 13 round era), to a early 2nd round pick, just because Chaplin et al turned him into the fastest CB in the draft. But that didn't happen without training. This is a guy who improved his 55m time from the mid-6.7s to the high-6.3s, running indoor track. Complete untrained he probably would have run the 55m in closer to 6.9.
Cliff here....Warren Sapp. John Randle, Keth Millard.There are enough guys who have an initial first step and yet don't have great 40 times. You could have trained Hercules at the Olympic center for a year and he wasn't getting down to the 4.55 area.
And you can have that 4.6 speed and be a total disaster going side to side. And that is an area where Hercules was stiff.
And the drill that probably hurt Hercules was the cone drill. For an outside linebacker that is a must.
