Okie State coach: “The Bedlam game is over because Oklahoma chose to leave the Big 12. Period."

[PeteTheChop]

LINK: Oklahoma State's Mike Gundy: Bedlam rivalry is 'history' with Oklahoma's exit to the SEC

Oklahoma is going to the SEC next year, so OkSt coach Mike Gundy ("I'm a man. I'm 40") has decided the series will not continue as a non-conference game.

Is this the best approach by Coach Gundy? Is his long-term objective to convince the Sooners to reverse their decision and come on back to the Big 12?

Just my opinion, but it was a sad day for some fans when the Governor's Trophy (UI-BSU) was cancelled. The same could be said if the Apple Cup and Civil War rivalries went by the wayside like the Bedlam Cup in Oklahoma.

 

[moxeecoug]

I agree with Gundy on this. Programs such as Oklahoma, Texas, USC and UCLA have turned their backs on long term geographic associations and whored themselves out. I really don’t want to see WSU play USC or UCLA again.

I would feel the same if Oregon and Washington left the PAC12.

 

[CougPatrol]

It's a nice headline grabber, but the financial and booster fallout negatively impacts Oklahoma State far more than it does Oklahoma.

The Sooners will line up a yearly schedule that includes Texas as their main rival, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Georgia, Florida, etc. Who does OK State replace the Sooners with? TCU, Kansas State, BYU, Central Florida?

If UW and Oregon leave the conference and we take the same stance as Gundy at OK State, we'll replace them with who? Boise State, Wyoming, and Montana? Talk about marginalizing your fan base. Apple Cup in September as a non-conference game would still be fun. Hell, we lose to them 70% of the time as it is.

 

[dgibbons]

Obligatory "I'm a man, I'm 56, 57 next month!"

And I agree with Gundy too. Bye, bye motherf***ers.

 

[PeteTheChop]

Obligatory "I'm a man, I'm 56, 57 next month!"

Happy (early) B-Day!

Hope you and Mrs. D-Gib get to go some place fun for the big occasion

 

[longtimecoug]

It's a nice headline grabber, but the financial and booster fallout negatively impacts Oklahoma State far more than it does Oklahoma.

The Sooners will line up a yearly schedule that includes Texas as their main rival, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Georgia, Florida, etc. Who does OK State replace the Sooners with? TCU, Kansas State, BYU, Central Florida?

If UW and Oregon leave the conference and we take the same stance as Gundy at OK State, we'll replace them with who? Boise State, Wyoming, and Montana? Talk about marginalizing your fan base. Apple Cup in September as a non-conference game would still be fun. Hell, we lose to them 70% of the time as it is.

if they leave and still want to play us, all games in Pullman

 

[CougPatrol]

if they leave and still want to play us, all games in Pullman

LOL, where's our leverage for that? If they leave and we're relegated to a hybrid MWC league, UW and Oregon would be our biggest games of the season. UW and Oregon, on the other hand, would have games vs. USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, UCLA, etc.

But hey, at least we'd have our pride when Fresno State and Wyoming roll onto the field.

 

[425cougfan]

Gundy's objective probably was to answer the question asked of him and, hopefully, not to continue to be asked it.

I can imagine something similar if UW bailed. The WSU coach and AD would be asked about the Apple Cup every day until they answered the question in a manner designed to stop it. Then they'd still be asked about it.

As others have written, Okie State needs Bedlam more than Oklahoma, and WSU needs the Apple Cup a lot more than UW. I completely understand people telling UW to pound sand, and they would deserve it. I wouldn't be all that bothered if we did, since the last thing I really want is to play UW with even more outmatched talent every year. That said, the Apple Cup is probably even more important to WSU's fans, and much more important economically to WSU, than Bedlam is to Oklahoma State's fans or to its financial position.

 

[CougPatrol]

I wouldn't be all that bothered if we did, since the last thing I really want is to play UW with even more outmatched talent every year.

UW beats us 70% of the time under the current format. I could argue that playing them in September would give us a better chance at competing. It would also prepare us for our conference season a lot better than a game with Idaho would.

 

[425cougfan]

UW beats us 70% of the time under the current format. I could argue that playing them in September would give us a better chance at competing. It would also prepare us for our conference season a lot better than a game with Idaho would.

I get that perspective. It would put us in the position where if we ever actually did win the game, it would be huge egg on UW's face, and it wouldn't be that big of a deal for WSU to drop a tough OOC game, even to those bastards. From that perspective, it would be pretty good. If this is in the context of WSU and Oregon State winding up in the MWC or a glorified version of it, though, it probably would become more of a 85% kind of thing instead of the 70% proposition it is now or the 50-55% or so that it should be when we're in the same conference and should be ready to play them.

 

[ttowncoug]

UW and WSU would likely be politically forced to keep the Apple Cup going is my opinion. The governor comes and gives the trophy. Tradition.

 

[COUGinNCW]

UW and WSU would likely be politically forced to keep the Apple Cup going is my opinion. The governor comes and gives the trophy. Tradition.

Tradition? What’s that have to do with College football?

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Guys, the 70-ish percent win rate by UW and OU do not mean that WSU and OSU need the game more. I'd argue the reverse. If UW and OU want to finish closer to the top 10, they need wins. Are they going to get them playing perennial top 25 teams? Or are they going to get them in rivalry games where they historically have won 70% of the time? Pretty clear that they need the game more than we do. There have been several years when an AC loss either cost us a bowl game or dropped us in terms of bowl selection.

Sure, we need the money more. But it is about more than that when you factor in the bowl angle.

And UCLA, OU and Texas will soon find that their move has hurt their chances for a top 10 finish. I don't know yet how USC will fare, but I'd bet real money that the other 3 will be damaged in terms of wins/losses.

 

[BiggsCoug]

UW and WSU would likely be politically forced to keep the Apple Cup going is my opinion. The governor comes and gives the trophy. Tradition.

F the governor.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Guys, the 70-ish percent win rate by UW and OU do not mean that WSU and OSU need the game more. I'd argue the reverse. If UW and OU want to finish closer to the top 10, they need wins. Are they going to get them playing perennial top 25 teams? Or are they going to get them in rivalry games where they historically have won 70% of the time? Pretty clear that they need the game more than we do. There have been several years when an AC loss either cost us a bowl game or dropped us in terms of bowl selection.

Sure, we need the money more. But it is about more than that when you factor in the bowl angle.

And UCLA, OU and Texas will soon find that their move has hurt their chances for a top 10 finish. I don't know yet how USC will fare, but I'd bet real money that the other 3 will be damaged in terms of wins/losses.

Texas oil money will either buy the players they need or the coach they need. I wouldnt count them out of the top ten at all.

 

[PeteTheChop]

LOL, where's our leverage for that? If they leave and we're relegated to a hybrid MWC league ...

I get that perspective. It would put us in the position where if we ever actually did win the game, it would be huge egg on UW's face, and it wouldn't be that big of a deal for WSU to drop a tough OOC game, even to those bastards. From that perspective, it would be pretty good. If this is in the context of WSU and Oregon State winding up in the MWC or a glorified version of it ...

Wilner and Calzano still believe Dr. Schulz and Commissioner K get the Pac-12 a high-quality TV deal.

But even if that doesn't work out for some reason, I look for both WSU and OSU to join the "Four Corners" schools in the Big 12 superconference.

Washington and Oregon are wealthy and fast-growing states, WSU and OSU are spending big money on facilities and the Cougs get great TV ratings (don't know about the Beavs)

Just my 2 cents, but there's a lot to like for the Big 12, ESPN and FOX

 

[cr8zyncalif]

Texas oil money will either buy the players they need or the coach they need. I wouldnt count them out of the top ten at all.

Biggs, I take your point re: oil money. But Texas A&M is on a level playing field with OU and TX as far as that oil money goes, and they are still batting 0.500 in league games since joining the SEC a decade ago, and their alum base is roughly comparable to UT's in Texas. I am not counting either OU or UT out of the top 10, but there is no doubt in my mind that they will have a harder time getting into that top 10 as SEC members. And yes, NIL money will be significant, but the SEC was already spending a lot of illegal money. Now it is legal.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Biggs, I take your point re: oil money. But Texas A&M is on a level playing field with OU and TX as far as that oil money goes, and they are still batting 0.500 in league games since joining the SEC a decade ago, and their alum base is roughly comparable to UT's in Texas. I am not counting either OU or UT out of the top 10, but there is no doubt in my mind that they will have a harder time getting into that top 10 as SEC members. And yes, NIL money will be significant, but the SEC was already spending a lot of illegal money. Now it is legal.

It will be interesting to see what happens at aTm. They just had their $20,000,000 class and hired a new OC.

The SEC will collect the best talent out of the rest of the leagues. The HS, JC and portal talent will likely go to the highest bidders.

Whoever has the most $$$ will win. College football is MLB with $0 luxury tax and 1 year contracts.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

It's a nice headline grabber, but the financial and booster fallout negatively impacts Oklahoma State far more than it does Oklahoma.

The Sooners will line up a yearly schedule that includes Texas as their main rival, Alabama, Auburn, LSU, Tennessee, Texas A&M, Georgia, Florida, etc. Who does OK State replace the Sooners with? TCU, Kansas State, BYU, Central Florida?

If UW and Oregon leave the conference and we take the same stance as Gundy at OK State, we'll replace them with who? Boise State, Wyoming, and Montana? Talk about marginalizing your fan base. Apple Cup in September as a non-conference game would still be fun. Hell, we lose to them 70% of the time as it is.

Yes, lets continue to lose 70% of our games to a team when it doesn't even matter any more.

The only reason I see to play them now is for division standing or to play the spoiler. If that's gone, f it.

 

[425cougfan]

Guys, the 70-ish percent win rate by UW and OU do not mean that WSU and OSU need the game more. I'd argue the reverse. If UW and OU want to finish closer to the top 10, they need wins. Are they going to get them playing perennial top 25 teams? Or are they going to get them in rivalry games where they historically have won 70% of the time? Pretty clear that they need the game more than we do. There have been several years when an AC loss either cost us a bowl game or dropped us in terms of bowl selection.

Sure, we need the money more. But it is about more than that when you factor in the bowl angle.

And UCLA, OU and Texas will soon find that their move has hurt their chances for a top 10 finish. I don't know yet how USC will fare, but I'd bet real money that the other 3 will be damaged in terms of wins/losses.

That's an interesting point and there's something to it. To an extent, all the lower-tier P5 teams are desirable for OOC scheduling, especially if there are mandates to improve OOC scheduling in some P5 conferences.

That said, that value isn't even close to the value of the game to WSU and most of its fans. The Apple Cup is the highlight of the WSU sports year for most of our fans--whether it should be or not is a different question--and is a guaranteed sellout even if on a Friday after Thanksgiving and otherwise highly impactful economically.

In contrast, UW doesn't suffer much by playing Fresno, SDSU, etc. instead of us, especially in a situation in which we're not in a P5 or are in some kind of questionable P5/P6 Pac-something that has been hollowed out. UW also could probably play any of those schools in Seattle every year. Our fans wouldn't, or at least shouldn't, go for that. I sure as hell don't want that.

If WSU isn't in a P5, WSU loses whatever value it has that you are describing. In that case, UW would probably prefer to play Kansas, Texas Tech, or whatever other lower-end P5 they could get to come to Seattle, or if they don't need the P5, they would just play one of those MWC / hollowed-out Pac teams I described above. WSU doesn't offer anything special in that context other than having historically gotten its ass kicked most of the time.

 

[wazzucougs96]

LOL, where's our leverage for that? If they leave and we're relegated to a hybrid MWC league, UW and Oregon would be our biggest games of the season. UW and Oregon, on the other hand, would have games vs. USC, Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, UCLA, etc.

But hey, at least we'd have our pride when Fresno State and Wyoming roll onto the field.

What do we gain from being their bitch in that scenario?

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Guys, the 70-ish percent win rate by UW and OU do not mean that WSU and OSU need the game more. I'd argue the reverse. If UW and OU want to finish closer to the top 10, they need wins. Are they going to get them playing perennial top 25 teams? Or are they going to get them in rivalry games where they historically have won 70% of the time? Pretty clear that they need the game more than we do. There have been several years when an AC loss either cost us a bowl game or dropped us in terms of bowl selection.

Sure, we need the money more. But it is about more than that when you factor in the bowl angle.

And UCLA, OU and Texas will soon find that their move has hurt their chances for a top 10 finish. I don't know yet how USC will fare, but I'd bet real money that the other 3 will be damaged in terms of wins/losses.

Agreed. Sincerely, Nebraska.

 

[Coug90]

Yes, lets continue to lose 70% of our games to a team when it doesn't even matter any more.

The only reason I see to play them now is for division standing or to play the spoiler. If that's gone, f it.

They wouldn’t play us anyways unless they could determine the rules. They’d require 2:1 Seattle/Pullman or every game at Lumen with them taking 65% of the gate…something like that. No way they’d keep this going on equal footing if they moved to another conference. And with that I’d say F ‘em.

 

[CougPatrol]

What do we gain from being their bitch in that scenario?

We gain our biggest grossing game of the season by an incredibly wide margin. We also appease our fan base who will overwhelmingly want to continue the series vs. UW.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

We gain our biggest grossing game of the season by an incredibly wide margin. We also appease our fan base who will overwhelmingly want to continue the series vs. UW.

Prove it.

 

[CougPatrol]

Prove it.

Prove what? That our alumni base wants the Apple Cup series to continue?

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Prove what? That our alumni base wants the Apple Cup series to continue?

Yes, if the Mutts leave the Pac.

 

[425cougfan]

Yes, if the Mutts leave the Pac.

Hopefully we never find out, but I find it hard to believe we're longtime fans of the same team if you don't think most of our fans wouldn't still want to play UW in that event. No way to "prove" it, nor the negative, but most of our fans aren't dedicated or aware of all the issues with conference realignment, how scheduling really works, TV deals, and all that, like we are. Even on here, there is substantial disagreement, with most of the opposition being of the "**** 'em" variety, which I understand, and feel myself, but don't think it accounts for all the factors that go into this.

I would bet quite a bit that the vast majority of the fans who aren't obsessives like us--on a message board year-round--but still go to some games, maybe donate, etc., would want to still play UW no matter what. It's by far the most important thing to most of our fans, and that's in a context where we are playing a lot of other legit teams in the Pac, too. Extend that to the t-shirt fans--we don't have a lot, but have some--and the types who only would show up when the Cougs were playing in Seattle, and then mainly went for the tailgate, and it's even more the case, especially if our other games are against Utah State and Wyoming.

None of this is to say I'd have any interest in playing UW if it was anything other than a continuation of the historical home/away split. No 2-for-1s, no games in Lumen with them keeping 70% of the gate, or any of that shit. I could even take it or leave it personally, and have a slight preference to tell them to go screw themselves, even if it was a continuation of the traditional Apple Cup series every year, home and away. Just saying I have a hard time even seeing the other side of this based on decades of seeing what the overwhelming majority of our alumni and other fans care about.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

If UW ends up leaving to another conference and WSU is not also in the same conference, then UW can pay $10M+/game to WSU to continue playing the Apple Cup every season, or they can kick rocks. UW would only have themselves to blame for the game no longer happening then.

Grew up in the state of Washington, and if UW left the conference, WSU shouldn't play them. Period.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Hopefully we never find out, but I find it hard to believe we're longtime fans of the same team if you don't think most of our fans wouldn't still want to play UW in that event. No way to "prove" it, nor the negative, but most of our fans aren't dedicated or aware of all the issues with conference realignment, how scheduling really works, TV deals, and all that, like we are. Even on here, there is substantial disagreement, with most of the opposition being of the "**** 'em" variety, which I understand, and feel myself, but don't think it accounts for all the factors that go into this.

I would bet quite a bit that the vast majority of the fans who aren't obsessives like us--on a message board year-round--but still go to some games, maybe donate, etc., would want to still play UW no matter what. It's by far the most important thing to most of our fans, and that's in a context where we are playing a lot of other legit teams in the Pac, too. Extend that to the t-shirt fans--we don't have a lot, but have some--and the types who only would show up when the Cougs were playing in Seattle, and then mainly went for the tailgate, and it's even more the case, especially if our other games are against Utah State and Wyoming.

None of this is to say I'd have any interest in playing UW if it was anything other than a continuation of the historical home/away split. No 2-for-1s, no games in Lumen with them keeping 70% of the gate, or any of that shit. I could even take it or leave it personally, and have a slight preference to tell them to go screw themselves, even if it was a continuation of the traditional Apple Cup series every year, home and away. Just saying I have a hard time even seeing the other side of this based on decades of seeing what the overwhelming majority of our alumni and other fans care about.

I get the sentiment, I totally do.

But personally I don't understand the emotional bond to getting your teeth kicked in, what... 70% of the time? I'm as die hard as the next guy, and as a younger man I cherished the opportunity to play little brother giving big brother his comeuppance, but as an older more pragmatic man - if we can dump a game that has historically ruined more seasons than it has benefitted then yes, 100% dump it. Not only do we lose to the mutts, we lose to them when it matters the most. I would wager (don't have time to research atm) that our record is even worse when we're ranked.

Over the past 30 years, we've won exactly twice when we were ranked, and only 9 times total.

I don't have the time now, but outside of USC I'm not sure we have any other matchup that is as lopsided towards the opponent.

 

[425cougfan]

I get the sentiment, I totally do.

But personally I don't understand the emotional bond to getting your teeth kicked in, what... 70% of the time? I'm as die hard as the next guy, and as a younger man I cherished the opportunity to play little brother giving big brother his comeuppance, but as an older more pragmatic man - if we can dump a game that has historically ruined more seasons than it has benefitted then yes, 100% dump it. Not only do we lose to the mutts, we lose to them when it matters the most. I would wager (don't have time to research atm) that our record is even worse when we're ranked.

Over the past 30 years, we've won exactly twice when we were ranked, and only 9 times total.

I don't have the time now, but outside of USC I'm not sure we have any other matchup that is as lopsided towards the opponent.

Totally hear you, especially since it would be more like 85% over time in that scenario. I am not saying what I want — it is my (strong) sense of what our fans, many of whom are, uh, “low-information” types, would want. Our AD might want it, too.

 

[CougPatrol]

If UW ends up leaving to another conference and WSU is not also in the same conference, then UW can pay $10M+/game to WSU to continue playing the Apple Cup every season, or they can kick rocks. UW would only have themselves to blame for the game no longer happening then.

Grew up in the state of Washington, and if UW left the conference, WSU shouldn't play them. Period.

LOL, why would UW agree to that? What's in it for them? They'll still have their rivalry with Oregon.

 

[CougSinceBirth]

LOL, why would UW agree to that? What's in it for them? They'll still have their rivalry with Oregon.

That's my point: pay up or get lost. If it truly means so much to them, they can pay the piper.

Oregon would likely be in the same conference so UW can continue to get spanked yearly by them.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

I'll repeat. They need the game more than we do if in fact they were in another conference. If they want it, they can pay for it. Under these circumstances Oregon would probably be gone from the league, too, and I'd favor a season ending tradition vs. OSU.

I don't expect UW and UO to ever leave. They have a good deal where they are now. But if something changes, then I stand by my previous comments.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

I'll repeat. They need the game more than we do if in fact they were in another conference. If they want it, they can pay for it. Under these circumstances Oregon would probably be gone from the league, too, and I'd favor a season ending tradition vs. OSU.

I don't expect UW and UO to ever leave. They have a good deal where they are now. But if something changes, then I stand by my previous comments.

And both UW and Oregon have money coming out of their asses. They don't need to go anywhere. Still baffles me why FUSC and FUCLA jumped. How stupid. Have fun getting your asses kicked.

 

[cr8zyncalif]

And both UW and Oregon have money coming out of their asses. They don't need to go anywhere. Still baffles me why FUSC and FUCLA jumped. How stupid. Have fun getting your asses kicked.

....travelling a long way over a long period of time to get your asses kicked.

Fixed!

 

[Coug90]

Hopefully we never find out, but I find it hard to believe we're longtime fans of the same team if you don't think most of our fans wouldn't still want to play UW in that event. No way to "prove" it, nor the negative, but most of our fans aren't dedicated or aware of all the issues with conference realignment, how scheduling really works, TV deals, and all that, like we are. Even on here, there is substantial disagreement, with most of the opposition being of the "**** 'em" variety, which I understand, and feel myself, but don't think it accounts for all the factors that go into this.

I would bet quite a bit that the vast majority of the fans who aren't obsessives like us--on a message board year-round--but still go to some games, maybe donate, etc., would want to still play UW no matter what. It's by far the most important thing to most of our fans, and that's in a context where we are playing a lot of other legit teams in the Pac, too. Extend that to the t-shirt fans--we don't have a lot, but have some--and the types who only would show up when the Cougs were playing in Seattle, and then mainly went for the tailgate, and it's even more the case, especially if our other games are against Utah State and Wyoming.

None of this is to say I'd have any interest in playing UW if it was anything other than a continuation of the historical home/away split. No 2-for-1s, no games in Lumen with them keeping 70% of the gate, or any of that shit. I could even take it or leave it personally, and have a slight preference to tell them to go screw themselves, even if it was a continuation of the traditional Apple Cup series every year, home and away. Just saying I have a hard time even seeing the other side of this based on decades of seeing what the overwhelming majority of our alumni and other fans care about.

Herein lies the problem though. They already think they are better than WSU. Imagine if they leave for the Big10 w more money. They will NEVER play WSU on equal ground. Won’t happen. Therefor if they leave it’s over. I wouldn’t mind keeping the rivalry alive if we did it under the same terms but there’s no way in hell that will happen.

 

[425cougfan]

Herein lies the problem though. They already think they are better than WSU. Imagine if they leave for the Big10 w more money. They will NEVER play WSU on equal ground. Won’t happen. Therefor if they leave it’s over. I wouldn’t mind keeping the rivalry alive if we did it under the same terms but there’s no way in hell that will happen.

I tend to agree that they would do that unless forced otherwise by lawmakers, and that's doubtful given who most lawmakers represent and/or where they went to school. I'm not in favor of playing them if it's not an annual home/away matchup. No 2-for-1s, no Lumen games with them taking the lion's share, and sure as hell not just playing them in their stadium.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Herein lies the problem though. They already think they are better than WSU.

Um, they are and have been for 100 years.

 

[CougPatrol]

Herein lies the problem though. They already think they are better than WSU. Imagine if they leave for the Big10 w more money. They will NEVER play WSU on equal ground. Won’t happen. Therefor if they leave it’s over. I wouldn’t mind keeping the rivalry alive if we did it under the same terms but there’s no way in hell that will happen.

They beat us 70% of the time as it is.