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OT: Mariners

What's funny about your "major market" comment is I remember the 90's when the Mariners were considered a small market ball club.
I don’t remember 90s rankings, but Seattle is the 11th biggest market in the country. Again, they don’t have to spend like the Yankees but with the support the city has provided for a mostly shit product, they could certainly find a way to be in the top 10. They are 18th in spending in the majors. Philly is right next to them in market size and is 4th in spending, over $100M more than the mariners. I think it’s safe to say they could be in the $200M ($60M more) range and have a good balance of committing to competing while not pissing away money. Instead they are caught in between and end up spending middle of the range money on veterans that don’t fit their ballpark.
 
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I don’t remember 90s rankings, but Seattle is the 11th biggest market in the country. Again, they don’t have to spend like the Yankees but with the support the city has provided for a mostly shit product, they could certainly find a way to be in the top 10. They are 18th in spending in the majors. Philly is right next to them in market size and is 4th in spending, over $100M more than the mariners. I think it’s safe to say they could be in the $200M ($60M more) range and have a good balance of committing to competing while not pissing away money. Instead they are caught in between and end up spending middle of the range money on veterans that don’t fit their ballpark.
 
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Ritchie Sexon comes to mind. Although I think he was actually better

Look at that 2001 team, they didn’t hit a ton of homers, with the exception of roided up Boone. They had contact/doubles hitters who worked the strike zone, had solid walk:strikeout ratios, stole bases, and played small ball. That’s what you have to do in Seattle especially when it’s a bitch to clear the wall in April and May.
 
You realize there is a difference in the responsibilities of the President of BUSINESS Operations and the President of BASEBALL Operations, right? Catie's job duties had a lot more to do with HR, Payroll, Sales, Marketing, the price of garlic fries, etc... than when to lay down a bunt or trade for a player.

And the hiring of M's manager, trades, etc, unless it's the VP who does that

Owner, Ceo is 1. At top of M's, then 2. Is president Catie Then 3. VP, then 4. The M's General Manager Scott Servais, then whatever position I think Dipoto had. then Scouts, then coaching staff, etc.

Buck gets passed from Dipoto, Scott Servais, then VP, then Catie the President, then CEO, then if somebody above CEO, then M's ownership group, where buck ultimately stops at CEO, ownership group.

Maybe Dipoto is president of operations, and some teams have 2 president's, one like Catie, and president of operations, whoever hired Scott, Dipoto, etc.

Having trouble thinking as STA buses almost caused me to die of heat stroke today, because of office lady, and bus stop sign 4351, that apparently is outdated, but didn't say like sacred hearts bus stop that actually says out of service. Unless the stops say that, then buses supposed stop there.

I had to wait 4 to 7 minutes for the 328 ride thing auto message to do it's spiel, and then office lady then asked me for stop 4351 number on the sign number that I read 6 times to the lady. Then lady directed me to walk to Yokes in Airway heights, where at that stop drive right on by me. Luckily for me 2nd bus was 9 minutes behind that buss, and then another was late about 17 minutes causing me to miss DOT bus taking back home. Luckily for me a friend talked to me, tried lyft, Uber, then took bus back to Airway heights where friend offered me a ride home back to Davenport.

I had to walk to bus plaza, and almost didn't make it back to bus plaza. Offered $10 for somebody to help me walk back to bus plaza, and the person who helped me back was a homeless person that needed the $10 I offered to them for help getting to food and shelter. STA management and a cop at bus plaza almost didn't take verbal report complaint, because they wanted me to spend 90 minutes doung a written report instead of doing verbal report.

Cop finally agreed to look the sign 4351 to verify my verbal report.

Several disabled bus passengers said similar things happened to them, that almost caused them to die in heat.

So I told bus manager that I will be talking to a newspaper reporter about what happened. Not to focus on me, but to try to help the people who have gone thru similar.

All because STA thought it would be nice to spend 100 million on a nice water fountain, has 5 to 7
thing and 2 Cougar statue, the cats, not football team, and 1 escalator, and then 4 to 7 spent 100 million take the fountain and Cougar statues out instead of more buses, more bus routes, more drivers, better training of STA management, and instead of removing out of service bus stop signs like stop 4351, that did not say anything on the sign about being out of service. Also 328 ride thing has 5 to 7 minute auto message.

Lot of people can run STA better the STA management. Which is probably why homeowners in Spokane keep voting no to fix STA funding problem issues.

About 3,4,5,6 STA overall bus system things went wrong. And only about a 1% chance that all those things would go wrong today.

Fortunately for me, and the homeless person who helped save me by walking back to bus stop, a lot if nice people helped me, and the homeless person who helped me.

LONG STORY.
 
I’m watching Teoscar Hernandez in the Championship of the All Star Home Run Derby right now, trying to explain to my MIL who is visiting from out of country but a huge baseball fan, he was under contract with the Mariners for this year and we traded him away to save money.

-“Why?”
>> to save money on his salary

- “Who is playing there now?” (She’s been to 3 gms this year)
>>Hanager.

- “but he’s no good. We need a hitter and now we’re going to buy a hitter?”

>> sigh 😌
 
So….they pick up a .213 hitter who strikes out every third at bat. This is their big move?

He will be a .175 hitter in this lineup.
 
They still need one more big bat.

I like what they’ve done so far.

Will they? I just don’t trust them to pull off a blockbuster.
 
They still need one more big bat.

I like what they’ve done so far.

Will they? I just don’t trust them to pull off a blockbuster.
I’d argue they don’t even need a blockbuster trade for a big bat. More than that I think they need 2-3 guys who reliably get on base.

Right now, they have 2 players hitting .250 or better who’ve had meaningful at bats. One of those is Arozarena, sitting at .250 exactly, and who hasn’t even washed his Seattle jersey yet. After 106 games, They only have one player (Raleigh) with more than 40 RBIs, and only 8 with 100 or more total bases. So, they’re just not getting enough guys on base, and then they’re not moving them. The result is they just don’t score enough runs. There are only 2 teams in MLB that score less, and those teams are both in the cellar (the Marlins and White Sox). Seattle is solid defensively - they’re #2 behind Atlanta in runs allowed (and only 1 run separates them from the Braves), so they don’t need a ton.

They could probably pull something off that wasn’t an eye-popping trade, and didn’t have a big price tag, but bought a couple runs, and a couple wins, per week. That may just be enough to retake the division.
 
You gotta love Polanco’s offensive the past 7-8 games.

Breakout? Hope so. Sure changes the dynamic of the team if he can keep this going.
 
I’d argue they don’t even need a blockbuster trade for a big bat. More than that I think they need 2-3 guys who reliably get on base.

Right now, they have 2 players hitting .250 or better who’ve had meaningful at bats. One of those is Arozarena, sitting at .250 exactly, and who hasn’t even washed his Seattle jersey yet. After 106 games, They only have one player (Raleigh) with more than 40 RBIs, and only 8 with 100 or more total bases. So, they’re just not getting enough guys on base, and then they’re not moving them. The result is they just don’t score enough runs. There are only 2 teams in MLB that score less, and those teams are both in the cellar (the Marlins and White Sox). Seattle is solid defensively - they’re #2 behind Atlanta in runs allowed (and only 1 run separates them from the Braves), so they don’t need a ton.

They could probably pull something off that wasn’t an eye-popping trade, and didn’t have a big price tag, but bought a couple runs, and a couple wins, per week. That may just be enough to retake the division.

Mariners had a team offering them Hoerner(About .289 to .299 batting average, and about 45 to 55 to 65 to 75 RBI, About 10 to 13 to 16 HR, low strike outs, goes deep in count, see a lot of pitches, got on base via base hits, walks, etc, a lot, and can play 2nd, SS, 3rd base, has a defensive gold glove, can occasionally steal bases, moves runners over via his hitting, and laying down the occasional bunt, infield hit, the occasional deep pop fly, etc.

And all that team wanted was one of the Mariners spare pitchers, etc.

Mariners should have jumped all over that.

There are about 2,3,4 teams that are either making M's similar good trade offers, that M's can either accept or make reasonable counter offers, and about 2,3,4 teams that if M's make a reasonable trade offer, the right trade offer, there are some good hitting trade options where M's wouldn't have to give up to much.

M's failure to get Hoerner so far, is very bad, as M's should have been all over that. and should have been able to get something fair, reasonable done, as Hoerner's team is in the cellar, wants to offload a little salary, wants a pitcher to build with, around, etc. And Hoerner's team is worried about not being able to trade Hoerner in future for a good enough player, and worried that Hoerner only be good for some more years, as Hoerner is about 26,27,28, 29 ish. Also Hoerner is not too expensive salary wise, and has a moderate salary for now. Hoerner would truly be a great get for Mariners. The M's management, ownership, etc, is just either too stupid, too incompetent, or don't care enough to either get Hoerner or a Hitter like Hoerner.
 
Mariners had a team offering them Hoerner(About .289 to .299 batting average, and about 45 to 55 to 65 to 75 RBI, About 10 to 13 to 16 HR, low strike outs, goes deep in count, see a lot of pitches, got on base via base hits, walks, etc, a lot, and can play 2nd, SS, 3rd base, has a defensive gold glove, can occasionally steal bases, moves runners over via his hitting, and laying down the occasional bunt, infield hit, the occasional deep pop fly, etc.

And all that team wanted was one of the Mariners spare pitchers, etc.

Mariners should have jumped all over that.

There are about 2,3,4 teams that are either making M's similar good trade offers, that M's can either accept or make reasonable counter offers, and about 2,3,4 teams that if M's make a reasonable trade offer, the right trade offer, there are some good hitting trade options where M's wouldn't have to give up to much.

M's failure to get Hoerner so far, is very bad, as M's should have been all over that. and should have been able to get something fair, reasonable done, as Hoerner's team is in the cellar, wants to offload a little salary, wants a pitcher to build with, around, etc. And Hoerner's team is worried about not being able to trade Hoerner in future for a good enough player, and worried that Hoerner only be good for some more years, as Hoerner is about 26,27,28, 29 ish. Also Hoerner is not too expensive salary wise, and has a moderate salary for now. Hoerner would truly be a great get for Mariners. The M's management, ownership, etc, is just either too stupid, too incompetent, or don't care enough to either get Hoerner or a Hitter like Hoerner.
Nico Horner is 27, and is on contract through 2026 at about $12M/year. He’s hitting .251 for the season, with 31 RBIs. He’s closer to .300 over the last month, and he’s a career .274 hitter. He’s never had more than 10 HR, currently has 4.

He’s not a bad choice, although his season batting average doesn’t really look like immediate help. If the cubs would take Polanco and a prospect/pick/cash in exchange…take it. I wouldn’t mess with the pitching much. Polanco for Hoerner gains about 50 points at the plate, and doesn’t sacrifice defense or money.
 
I’m going to go out on a limb and say 22 runs is the most this team has scored in a 3 game stretch in a loooooong time. Interesting to see if they can keep it going. 2 of the Sox pitchers they faced are pretty good too so it wasn’t like they were rocking 4A pitching.

Is one bat added to the lineup enough of a spark to get these other guys to pull their heads out of their asses?

Julio comes back anywhere close to what he’s capable of then add a hot palanco, all of a sudden you have 4 decent bats in the lineup. Might be enough 🤷
 
Nico Horner is 27, and is on contract through 2026 at about $12M/year. He’s hitting .251 for the season, with 31 RBIs. He’s closer to .300 over the last month, and he’s a career .274 hitter. He’s never had more than 10 HR, currently has 4.

He’s not a bad choice, although his season batting average doesn’t really look like immediate help. If the cubs would take Polanco and a prospect/pick/cash in exchange…take it. I wouldn’t mess with the pitching much. Polanco for Hoerner gains about 50 points at the plate, and doesn’t sacrifice defense or money.

The article I read said Hoerner, not Nico Horner, and said Hoerner's numbers were about what I said in saying his numbers were ABOUT what I said it was ABOUT.

Now maybe Hoerner's numbers have changed, drastically gone down since the article about 3,4,5,6 weeks ago that I read about him. Or maybe the article was wrong. Or maybe I am slightly misremembering it.

Maybe now is a bad time to get Hoerner, if Hoerner's numbers have changed for the worse since the article. But at the time of the article, when the numbers, etc, seemed good, and when the bottom dweller team wanted to trade Hoerner, the M's should have been all over that, at the time of the article.

Maybe it's for the best that it didn't work out that way, if Hoerner's numbers have dropped since the article.

Now the Mariners are supposedly trying their A$$ off to get, work out a deal to get Vlad Jr from the Toronto Blue Jay's.

That's going to cost the M's a lot to get him. And Vlad Jr gets to leave M's, ask for even more big time money, etc, in 2025. And Vlad Jr is starting to get older where easier to get injured, or produce less, have less value for more money, once gets paid more money.

But if M's get him, no denying that Vlad Jr is a short term, win now, this season solution, except that Vlad Jr won't have anybody to hit behind him, protect Vlad Jr, etc, and Vlad Jr hits for power, when the M's need hitters with a better batting average, that get on base more, that strikeout less, that see more pitches, work the count, that steal bases, that move runners over, that can lay bunt down, get infield hits, hit long, deep pop Flys to get tagged up runners moved over, scoring, etc, SMALL BALL players, as the M's few so called power hitters have terrible batting averages, strike out a lot, don't get on base, don't move runners over, hit semi lots of solo home runs, etc.
 
Justin Turner isn’t a bad pickup necessarily, but I wouldn’t say he’s a good one either. he’s only hitting .257 on the season, 31 RBI. Worst part is that he’s not even on contract past this season, so they’ve basically only picked him up for the remaining 50 games. He’s an upgrade at the plate compared to Ty France, though.
 
Justin Turner isn’t a bad pickup necessarily, but I wouldn’t say he’s a good one either. he’s only hitting .257 on the season, 31 RBI. Worst part is that he’s not even on contract past this season, so they’ve basically only picked him up for the remaining 50 games. He’s an upgrade at the plate compared to Ty France, though.
.257 makes him what, their 3rd best hitter? He doesn’t hit for the power he used to and hits into a lot of DPs, but I think you’re picking up a guys like this for leadership as much as anything. Damn near every hitter on this team has underperformed, you’ve got to have some leaders in the clubhouse who know how to kick their teammates in the ass, and this club obviously doesn’t have that and it doesn’t help when their manager is Mr “awe shucks”. Turner has played in a lot of playoff games and been a part of some intense pennant races. That’s gotta be good for something.
 
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Watching pack his bags after they trade him for minor league prospects?


I'm harsher than you. I won't count them as being in the playoffs until they're in the ALCS.
This. I can root for them in most situations, but I've learned never to trust that they won't either choke or have some stupid management decision down the stretch.
 
Justin Turner isn’t a bad pickup necessarily, but I wouldn’t say he’s a good one either. he’s only hitting .257 on the season, 31 RBI. Worst part is that he’s not even on contract past this season, so they’ve basically only picked him up for the remaining 50 games. He’s an upgrade at the plate compared to Ty France, though.
He’s a productive bat with post season experience that cost the Mariners a #29 prospect and a sixth of his salary in payroll.

Essentially, we get him for nothing.

Still need a headliner trade, IMO
 
This. I can root for them in most situations, but I've learned never to trust that they won't either choke or have some stupid management decision down the stretch.
Because they will. We are still tied for 1st? Well, good on them, but with their record as of today they would be in 4th place in every division but the NL Central, where they would be 5-6 games back in 2nd and a game or two out of 4th.
 
Because they will. We are still tied for 1st? Well, good on them, but with their record as of today they would be in 4th place in every division but the NL Central, where they would be 5-6 games back in 2nd and a game or two out of 4th.
I’ve been as hard on the mariners as anyone. The one thing I’ll say is baseball is weird. There’s been teams in the past that look left for dead and end up going on a tear and win the WS. If we could have scored 3 runs+ in every game over the last month what’s their record? We’re probably still 5-6 games up. This team doesn’t have to score 10 runs to win, they need 3. One good bat and a veteran clubhouse presence could get them over the hump, especially if some of these other guys can get a shot in the arm. That’s all it takes. If they get into the playoffs with this staff who knows what happens. I also think you don’t want to mortgage your future for one shot that may or may not materialize.
 
.257 makes him what, their 3rd best hitter? He doesn’t hit for the power he used to and hits into a lot of DPs, but I think you’re picking up a guys like this for leadership as much as anything. Damn near every hitter on this team has underperformed, you’ve got to have some leaders in the clubhouse who know how to kick their teammates in the ass, and this club obviously doesn’t have that and it doesn’t help when their manager is Mr “awe shucks”. Turner has played in a lot of playoff games and been a part of some intense pennant races. That’s gotta be good for something.
2nd or 3rd best hitter. It's a serviceable number, and he's been hot lately. He's certainly capable of advancing runners, which is what they really need, and like I said...he's better than Ty France. France is hitting .223 on the season and .163 in the last 30 games. Turner is .257 on the season and .314 in the last 30. So, yeah...upgrade. There's the advantage of experience and veteran leadership too, as someone else mentioned.

Realistically, I feel like they needed to make a couple of those trades though. Picking up 1 player who's hitting in the high 200s isn't going to plate very many more runs.
 
2nd or 3rd best hitter. It's a serviceable number, and he's been hot lately. He's certainly capable of advancing runners, which is what they really need, and like I said...he's better than Ty France. France is hitting .223 on the season and .163 in the last 30 games. Turner is .257 on the season and .314 in the last 30. So, yeah...upgrade. There's the advantage of experience and veteran leadership too, as someone else mentioned.

Realistically, I feel like they needed to make a couple of those trades though. Picking up 1 player who's hitting in the high 200s isn't going to plate very many more runs.
Another 10 hit game. And 10 more runs. Are we comfortable yet saying the offense is coming around? Might not have taken much to get some of these dudes to loosen up their sphincters. Small sample size still but damn…the last 5 games looks like a different squad.
 
I’ve been as hard on the mariners as anyone. The one thing I’ll say is baseball is weird. There’s been teams in the past that look left for dead and end up going on a tear and win the WS. If we could have scored 3 runs+ in every game over the last month what’s their record? We’re probably still 5-6 games up. This team doesn’t have to score 10 runs to win, they need 3. One good bat and a veteran clubhouse presence could get them over the hump, especially if some of these other guys can get a shot in the arm. That’s all it takes. If they get into the playoffs with this staff who knows what happens. I also think you don’t want to mortgage your future for one shot that may or may not materialize.
Wait - Baseball is weird? Shouldn't you be sharing that over on the shitshow thread on the Beasley Board? :)

Sincerely, all the sociopathic childless cat ladies of America. Gawd that dipshit is, and will be, drilled over that shit.
 
Wait - Baseball is weird? Shouldn't you be sharing that over on the shitshow thread on the Beasley Board? :)

Sincerely, all the sociopathic childless cat ladies of America. Gawd that dipshit is, and will be, drilled over that shit.
Trump cult is weird too but that’s not what this thread is gonna turn into.
 
It just did. But there’s still time to edit your political snidery and preserve this thread for Baseball.

Your choice. ⚾️
 
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