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What are we saying here Ed? Falk was a hit & Hilinski looks to be a hit, whereas Bender & Bruggman were busts? Book is still out on Neville?

So, do we agree, Leach has arguably hit on 50% of his QB recruits? And that's inconsistent? Is there a team in the conference that has done better over that period?
 
Fab5Coug said:
What are we saying here Ed? Falk was a hit & Hilinski looks to be a hit, whereas Bender & Bruggman were busts? Book is still out on Neville?

So, do we agree, Leach has arguably hit on 50% of his QB recruits? And that's inconsistent? Is there a team in the conference that has done better over that period?
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Why are you, or anyone for that matter, debating with Ed? Comparing former coaches with the current regime is nonsensical and a non-starter; there is nothing to compare. We are a completely different program and the landscape is completely different than it was 20 years ago.

Not only that, but Ed has gone from occasionally somewhat coherent lucid thoughts to consistently trolling after games with opinions contrary to logic or common sense. I actually worry for his mental health.
 
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Fab5Coug said:
How many recruiting classes is that to get those guys? Bobo, Schex & Davis were on that '92 Snow Bowl team. Taylor & the Fab 5 were seniors in '97. Fields & Childs were on the Palouse Posse in '94. I think Moore was a senior in '97 & Gleason was '98.

Again, it looks to me like you're taking almost a decade worth of recruiting classes to make your point.
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Well if I used a decade I would have included Jeremy Williams, Rien Long, Josh Shavies, Kegel, Trufant etc.

I believe I used six classes. Now if you argue that we havent seen what the freshman and redshirt freshman can do I would agree with you.
 
Lots of ways to look at recruiting. If you take the top 5 or 6 guys in each class an argument can be made for either Price or Leach. However I think Leach has been able to fill out classes with better talent down to the top 10 or 15 in each class. The result is we are getting quality depth at a level not seen before in Pullman. Some of Prices best teams were incredibly thin and were successful thanks to minimal injuries. First Rose Bowl team was a great example.
 
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BleedCrimsonandGray said:
Why are you, or anyone for that matter, debating with Ed? Comparing former coaches with the current regime is nonsensical and a non-starter; there is nothing to compare. We are a completely different program and the landscape is completely different than it was 20 years ago.

Not only that, but Ed has gone from occasionally somewhat coherent lucid thoughts to consistently trolling after games with opinions contrary to logic or common sense. I actually worry for his mental health.
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Worry why? So I am clear and I believe I just wrote this last week. Mike Leach is a top ten coach. Period. Socal is talking about recruiting rankings. I don't like rankings. But I joined in the convo cause I find it interesting.

Read this again--- I like Leach a lot. I think he is a top 10 coach. I believe his model is sustainable as long as he is the head coach. I think his recruiting model is sustainable.

Personally I find him extremely interesting. He is authentic and seems to be loyal and doesn't require a ton to be happy.

On a personal level the only area where I have disagreed with him in the last tho years was when he was cavalier when Luke was on the paddle board two years ago and when he introduced a political candidate in Spokane. Now, Jim Walden, Paul Wulff or Mike Price could have introduced Bernie Sanders or Hillary and I would have felt the same way.

And if me saying Arizona was a bad matchup is overly critical I am awfully sorry.
 
CougEd said:
Worry why? So I am clear and I believe I just wrote this last week. Mike Leach is a top ten coach. Period. Socal is talking about recruiting rankings. I don't like rankings. But I joined in the convo cause I find it interesting.

Read this again--- I like Leach a lot. I think he is a top 10 coach. I believe his model is sustainable as long as he is the head coach. I think his recruiting model is sustainable.

Personally I find him extremely interesting. He is authentic and seems to be loyal and doesn't require a ton to be happy.

On a personal level the only area where I have disagreed with him in the last tho years was when he was cavalier when Luke was on the paddle board two years ago and when he introduced a political candidate in Spokane. Now, Jim Walden, Paul Wulff or Mike Price could have introduced Bernie Sanders or Hillary and I would have felt the same way.

And if me saying Arizona was a bad matchup is overly critical I am awfully sorry.
Click to expand...

Interesting. Two weeks ago the Iron Laws were sending Leach to Nebraska.
 
Fab5Coug said:
What are we saying here Ed? Falk was a hit & Hilinski looks to be a hit, whereas Bender & Bruggman were busts? Book is still out on Neville?

So, do we agree, Leach has arguably hit on 50% of his QB recruits? And that's inconsistent? Is there a team in the conference that has done better over that period?
Click to expand...
No there hasnt been a team that has done better. Nor is there a team that is starting a former walk-on at QB. Of course he is 50%. Nature of recruiting. If I said he has been inconsistent and he got crappy play that is different. I am talking about simply from recruiting players. Yes, if Falk was average I would agree that there would have been a problem.

But Bruggman due to rankings as with Bender were busts for whatever reason.

Now, if you ask me if I am concerned about the position, no I am not. After the Boise game I even said WSU will be in the top half of the conference in QB play as long as they stay healthy.
 
dgibbons said:
Interesting. Two weeks the Iron Laws were sending Leach to Nebraska.
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Not sure I get your point. I found him to be very loyal to Moos and Floyd. And I would imagine he would stay at WSU until he retired save one job if those two were still here.
 
CougEd said:
No there hasnt been a team that has done better. Nor is there a team that is starting a former walk-on at QB. Of course he is 50%. Nature of recruiting. If I said he has been inconsistent and he got crappy play that is different. I am talking about simply from recruiting players. Yes, if Falk was average I would agree that there would have been a problem.

But Bruggman due to rankings as with Bender were busts for whatever reason.

Now, if you ask me if I am concerned about the position, no I am not. After the Boise game I even said WSU will be in the top half of the conference in QB play as long as they stay healthy.
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If there isn't anyone who's done better, why are you even talking about it? You just feel like bitchin' about Leach this week?
 
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Flatlandcoug said:
If there isn't anyone who's done better, why are you even talking about it? You just feel like bitchin' about Leach this week?
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"I bitched" about Leach? Really? Can you possibly be this lost? We were talking about recruiting and rankings. You really believe Price, Walden, Chip Kelly, Mike Leach to hit on every player? To discuss Bruggman and Bender as busts is not "bitching" about him.
 
CougEd said:
"I bitched" about Leach? Really? Can you possibly be this lost? We were talking about recruiting and rankings. You really believe Price, Walden, Chip Kelly, Mike Leach to hit on every player? To discuss Bruggman and Bender as busts is not "bitching" about him.
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You are bitching about his QB recruiting. Maybe you don't see it....but everyone else does. You are acting like our QB recruiting is inferior but the evidence suggests that it is fine.
 
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Flatlandcoug said:
You are bitching about his QB recruiting. Maybe you don't see it....but everyone else does. You are acting like our QB recruiting is inferior but the evidence suggests that it is fine.
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Good grief. No one. No one bats 1000 on recruits. You get 50% out of a class and that is a good class.

I simply made the observation our QB recruiting has been spotty, with hits on one, (Falk walkon) and the looks of two(Falk and Hillinski) , and misses on two. If I said I was worried about the situation or we have a QB problem, then I could see how you could interpret it as bitching.

If you were to make the observation we have struggled getting kids at DT the last two years, should I read that as a bitch? Is it an accurate observation?

Again, the conversation was about recruiting rankings. So I am clear, the QB position looks to be in great position. He hit on two, missed on two. Only ONE plays at a time, so our QB situation is in good shape as long as Hillinski gets throwing picks really hurts the team.

So I am clear, I trust Leach and his staff with their ability to evaluate talent. MY EXPECTATION is they will hit on a little over 50% of their kids. If they get 70% out of two straight classes my guess is they are in the Pac 12 title game.
 
CougEd said:
No there hasnt been a team that has done better. Nor is there a team that is starting a former walk-on at QB. Of course he is 50%. Nature of recruiting. If I said he has been inconsistent and he got crappy play that is different. I am talking about simply from recruiting players. Yes, if Falk was average I would agree that there would have been a problem.

But Bruggman due to rankings as with Bender were busts for whatever reason.

Now, if you ask me if I am concerned about the position, no I am not. After the Boise game I even said WSU will be in the top half of the conference in QB play as long as they stay healthy.
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You called his QB recruiting inconsistent. But that's not at all relative. That's kind of like saying Tony Gwynn was inconsistent cause he only got a hit 1/3 of the time.
 
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Fab5Coug said:
I don't think recruiting is Leach's strongest attribute, and we were warned of that by Tech fans when he was hired. But I would call "troubling" what Wulff was doing. My opinion is we need to be in the same ballpark as Utah, CU, Cal & the Zonas. What are our national rankings compared to those schools over the last 3 years? I honestly don't know, cause I don't tend to look at those numbers. I do know, however, that most of the guys we're getting have P5 & upper mid major offers.
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Not sure we should be in the quality of recruiting rankings as The Zonas. How a coach cannot recruit extremely well to ASU is beyond me. They should be no worse than 2nd behind USC every year in recruiting. As an 18 year old male (athlete no less) can’t think of too many places I’d rather spend 5 years (besides Pullman of course) :)
 
Coug90 said:
Not sure we should be in the quality of recruiting rankings as The Zonas. How a coach cannot recruit extremely well to ASU is beyond me. They should be no worse than 2nd behind USC every year in recruiting. As an 18 year old male (athlete no less) can’t think of too many places I’d rather spend 5 years (besides Pullman of course) :)
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this is the standard train of thought, it has never really panned out to be true however.
 
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Flatlandcoug said:
You are bitching about his QB recruiting. Maybe you don't see it....but everyone else does. You are acting like our QB recruiting is inferior but the evidence suggests that it is fine.
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Ummm...I am the one who wrote it. Not sure I can be more clear. 1) This is a subject on recruiting rankings. The very nature make it SUBJECTIVE. I don't agree with Socal when it comes to rankings but find the discussion interesting. 2) I have said many times on this board if a coach, any coach hits on 50% of his players in a class they are doing well. It is like baseball in that the success rate is not 100%,90%, or even 70%. 3) I have never voiced a concern about QB play. 4) It goes back to expectations. With Leach's rep you would think the four star kid would be able to latch on somewhere and be successful. But again, Leach found a way with Falk to "subsidize" the qb position and make it a team strength. But his play does nothing to change the "recruiting rankings", which is the theme started by Socal.

Let me give you the following scenario. You ask me to describe my wife. I offer my opinion that she is funny, charming, attractive, great shape, makes good money ripping people of in the lending business. In my analysis I also mention she cant cook worth a lick. Am I bitching about my wife cause she cant cook?

So you are correct I don't see me bitching cause I am the one writing the post and the one who knows the intent. Not you!
 
Fab5Coug said:
You called his QB recruiting inconsistent. But that's not at all relative. That's kind of like saying Tony Gwynn was inconsistent cause he only got a hit 1/3 of the time.
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Of course....that is what recruiting rankings are...subjective and all relative. What difference does it make if Bruggman was a success or Leach found a walk-on? Only place it matters is in recruiting rankings. Which is the headline and subject of this thread.

So of course it is all about perspective.
 
CougEd said:
I said Price was consistent at the QB position? Interesting.
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CougEd said: ↑

I said Price was consistent at the QB position? Interesting.

Dgibs writes- “That's (why--ED inserted)) we use the quote function.---Is this the post you were referring to "His (Price) lack of "consistency" happened probably in three area's. Oline, QB, and Dline. "

I never thought Price was "consistent" in getting QB's . I know he was consistent on identifying top QB talent, like Jake Plummer who had told him he was going to WSU but Snyder convinced him to take a January trip to Tempe, or Brad Otten who could have been here in 94 and 95 and bridged the gap for Bledsoe to Leaf, or Akili Smith in 97 and 98 that would have bridged the gap between Leaf and Gesser.

Otten was at Weber and wanted to play for WSU. Because of Leaf he did not end up bringing in Otten. Smith wanted to play for Price, but thought better of it cause he had Leaf for one last year.

So he ended up with Chad Degrenier, Chad from Oklahoma State, Chad Davis, Steve Birnbaum and Paul Mencke. While I think the QB situation could have looked much different, it didn't and it was inconsistent both in recruiting and in production under Mike Price.

So again, I am not sure where I said he was consistent.
 
CougEd said:
CougEd said: ↑

I said Price was consistent at the QB position? Interesting.

Dgibs writes- “That's (why--ED inserted)) we use the quote function.---Is this the post you were referring to "His (Price) lack of "consistency" happened probably in three area's. Oline, QB, and Dline. "

I never thought Price was "consistent" in getting QB's . I know he was consistent on identifying top QB talent, like Jake Plummer who had told him he was going to WSU but Snyder convinced him to take a January trip to Tempe, or Brad Otten who could have been here in 94 and 95 and bridged the gap for Bledsoe to Leaf, or Akili Smith in 97 and 98 that would have bridged the gap between Leaf and Gesser.

Otten was at Weber and wanted to play for WSU. Because of Leaf he did not end up bringing in Otten. Smith wanted to play for Price, but thought better of it cause he had Leaf for one last year.

So he ended up with Chad Degrenier, Chad from Oklahoma State, Chad Davis, Steve Birnbaum and Paul Mencke. While I think the QB situation could have looked much different, it didn't and it was inconsistent both in recruiting and in production under Mike Price.

So again, I am not sure where I said he was consistent.
Click to expand...

Please include the guys Leach “identified” but didn’t land. You know, for consistency.
 
CougEd said:
CougEd said: ↑

I said Price was consistent at the QB position? Interesting.

Dgibs writes- “That's (why--ED inserted)) we use the quote function.---Is this the post you were referring to "His (Price) lack of "consistency" happened probably in three area's. Oline, QB, and Dline. "

I never thought Price was "consistent" in getting QB's . I know he was consistent on identifying top QB talent, like Jake Plummer who had told him he was going to WSU but Snyder convinced him to take a January trip to Tempe, or Brad Otten who could have been here in 94 and 95 and bridged the gap for Bledsoe to Leaf, or Akili Smith in 97 and 98 that would have bridged the gap between Leaf and Gesser.

Otten was at Weber and wanted to play for WSU. Because of Leaf he did not end up bringing in Otten. Smith wanted to play for Price, but thought better of it cause he had Leaf for one last year.

So he ended up with Chad Degrenier, Chad from Oklahoma State, Chad Davis, Steve Birnbaum and Paul Mencke. While I think the QB situation could have looked much different, it didn't and it was inconsistent both in recruiting and in production under Mike Price.

So again, I am not sure where I said he was consistent.
Click to expand...
he also turned down drew brees because we had birnie
 
CougEd said:
Of course....that is what recruiting rankings are...subjective and all relative. What difference does it make if Bruggman was a success or Leach found a walk-on? Only place it matters is in recruiting rankings. Which is the headline and subject of this thread.

So of course it is all about perspective.
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Dude, my head is spinning.

This has got to be one of your all time oddest takes on this board.

You're not making a lick of sense.
 
Fab5Coug said:
Dude, my head is spinning.

This has got to be one of your all time oddest takes on this board.

You're not making a lick of sense.
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If I may ask what is throwing you off? That I called Bender and Bruggman a bust? Or I called a 50% hit ratio "spotty" at the QB position? Or that I think despite what I called "could be argued that it is spotty" that the position is in great hands? Or that I think so much of Leach and his ability to evaluate and coach QB's that I am mildly surprised when he doesn't hit on all of his QB recruits. Not disappointed or have "expectations", merely surprised Bruggman washed out virtually everywhere he went. Could he even start at Montana State?
 
Flatlandcoug said:
Ed, you really ought to just let this topic die. Let someone else have the last word and walk away. We've all had to do it at some point.
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I didn't realize the "topic" was all that controversial or a topic that needed a last word.

If Fab said "Ed your full of sh!t because of X" sure I would have zero problem "walking away". Like I said I didn't realize recruiting rankings "moved" people other than people at Dawgman who know what type of deodorant a 17 year kid uses. When someone else is "confused" by a position I have either I have done a poor job of explaining or I may simply missing something.

Now, if you would like the last word, feel free to have it.
 
CougEd said:
If I may ask what is throwing you off? That I called Bender and Bruggman a bust? Or I called a 50% hit ratio "spotty" at the QB position? Or that I think despite what I called "could be argued that it is spotty" that the position is in great hands? Or that I think so much of Leach and his ability to evaluate and coach QB's that I am mildly surprised when he doesn't hit on all of his QB recruits. Not disappointed or have "expectations", merely surprised Bruggman washed out virtually everywhere he went. Could he even start at Montana State?
Click to expand...

That you called Leach's QB recruiting "spotty". It's not.
 
Saying the WRs have been "functional" is grossly underselling the recruiting there as well.

Marks
Mayle
Cracraft
T Martin Jr
Bell
Calvin
Tay Martin
Johnson Mack

That is far more than a "functional" group of receivers.
 
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Ok, I am the 75th post on this now idiotic thread. Ed, you have posted 24 times.

Can my "bring nothing" post be the last please?
 
CougEd said:
Gotta ask...what is your expectation of his recruiting at the QB position.
Click to expand...

I don't know. 50% seems pretty good to me. As long as we have a good QB almost every year. From Halliday to Falk to Hillinski, looks pretty good so far.

What's yours?
 
Fab5Coug said:
Why do you care?
Click to expand...

Because Mr. 16 posts in this thread, I like to:
A. Talk about Saturday's game
B. Failing that, talk about the 2017 season
C. Failing that, talk about the CML teams, or at least this decade.
D. Failing that, talk about this millennium's teams.

E. Failing that, talk about other relevant 2017 Coug news, like our first NBA starter at center since James Donaldson.
 
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Loyal Coug said:
Because Mr. 16 posts in this thread, I like to:
A. Talk about Saturday's game
B. Failing that, talk about the 2017 season
C. Failing that, talk about the CML teams, or at least this decade.
D. Failing that, talk about this millennium's teams.

E. Failing that, talk about other relevant 2017 Coug news, like our first NBA starter at center since James Donaldson.
Click to expand...

I'm sorry, are we preventing you from starting any of those threads?
 
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ED is a True Loser & it’s well known

His pathetic attempt to toss dirt on the Leach era the past 6yrs only proves the point. Moos knew it. I brought up old E.Dickenson’s name at the Tri-Cities event and Bill uttered: “We are aware of Eric’s behavior & rhetoric and love it when he tries to kiss our ass at events like this”
 
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