No way! Multiple people are blowing up Sponge's argument? I don't get it, I thought it was drum tight, he said so himself. I mean, he used ONE piece of evidence, called it a day- how could that not be right?
Paul Wulff's hypothetical return to WSU?
- Thread starter PeteTheChop
- Start date
Well, you were the one saying how bad the Oline play was because Rogers got hurt. I simply used that same argument that the line must still suck because Halliday got hurt. Never mind the plethora of sacks we gave up against ASU.
Oh no...I'm not popular amongst the dungeons and dragons and stat geek crowd! What ever will l do without your approval?!
You know its hard for me to observe and take a "middle" stance to this disagreement when you make comments like that.
Also, if you wanna throw out the stats it'll probably be even harder to argue the eye-ball test when comparing the Leach coached teams vs the Wulff teams.... Especially if you want to compare offense lines... just eye-ball the average weight of the two offense lines, there is something like a 30-40 pound difference.
You mean people who WATCH THE COUGARS? As opposed to you, who admitted he doesn't watch that much? It is unbelievable that people who follow the team know more about it than you, though.
Get angry at clouds that you don't like the looks of? Stick pins in your Mike Leach voodoo doll? Make up things I didn't say and attribute them to me? Pretty much anything but actually watch football games?
Where did you get that? I haven't missed a game in yrs. I said I don't watch the replays like I used to.
I totally agree with you. You just happened to come in at the tail end of a long running argument where the other fellas complain about certain things in relation to Wulff (he ruined Gibson etc)and I am just pointing out the same things that they complain about are still happening.
To save you all the trouble of reading through a bunch of threads, I take a bunch of heat for saying Leach should run the ball more to give the lbs and safeties more than one read(analysts say the same thing)...and when I have higher expectations when the same bunch said we need to have higher expectations...they come out the woodwork when I criticize 3-9.
Now you're up to speed
I totally agree with you. You just happened to come in at the tail end of a long running argument where the other fellas complain about certain things in relation to Wulff (he ruined Gibson etc)and I am just pointing out the same things that they complain about are still happening.
To save you all the trouble of reading through a bunch of threads, I take a bunch of heat for saying Leach should run the ball more to give the lbs and safeties more than one read(analysts say the same thing)...and when I have higher expectations when the same bunch said we need to have higher expectations...they come out the woodwork when I criticize 3-9.
Now you're up to speed
Both sides are passionate with what they believe, but "debate" fly's out the window for pretty much every single thread on this forum. Sometimes it's playful antagonizing, but other times it goes overboard.
I just think we all need to agree that we were just as close to 5-7 than we were at 3-9. 2013's team probably wasn't as good as their record, and 2014's team wasn't as bad as their record.
Somewhere someone posted a comprehensive analysis of the best teams in the country year in and year out and they found that one of the most important indicators of wins is the number of upper classmen you "reload" with every year.
I think that's why people give leach a pass sometimes. We see the team getting better, but they are just mentally and physically young (even those with playing experience).
I totally agree with you. You just happened to come in at the tail end of a long running argument where the other fellas complain about certain things in relation to Wulff (he ruined Gibson etc)and I am just pointing out the same things that they complain about are still happening.
To save you all the trouble of reading through a bunch of threads, I take a bunch of heat for saying Leach should run the ball more to give the lbs and safeties more than one read(analysts say the same thing)...and when I have higher expectations when the same bunch said we need to have higher expectations...they come out the woodwork when I criticize 3-9.
Now you're up to speed
Damn, I was going to refute this. But, I have been avoiding this topic again and what you have been writing. I don't agree with your post, but whatever. Carry on.
Your primary agenda is to find (and when you can't, create out of whole cloth) parallels between the coach we have now, and the worst coach in our programs history, while still touting your unequivocal support of the program.I totally agree with you. You just happened to come in at the tail end of a long running argument where the other fellas complain about certain things in relation to Wulff (he ruined Gibson etc)and I am just pointing out the same things that they complain about are still happening.
To save you all the trouble of reading through a bunch of threads, I take a bunch of heat for saying Leach should run the ball more to give the lbs and safeties more than one read(analysts say the same thing)...and when I have higher expectations when the same bunch said we need to have higher expectations...they come out the woodwork when I criticize 3-9.
Now you're up to speed
And when people use several observations and facts to disagree, you behave like it's dungeons and dragons stat geek never put on a football helmet stuff, as though people made up a bunch of information for the sole purpose of proving you wrong. Then you find a fact you like, and ride it into the sunset, still caterwauling about dungeons and dragons.
Also, Not One Person actually said the Gibson thing you've been bibbling about- I made that crystal clear upthread, but you've been undeterred in claiming I did, so, yes, read more carefully.
Where I criticize is when you claim, for example, that you don't see speed improvements on defense, then I rattle off a list of guys who represent those improvements, and your response is, "I don't pay attention that close, but one of the names you just gave is someone my brother co-signs, so maybe you've got something there..."
You really wonder?
You really wonder?
Wulffui...
The outlier might be in part the same lineman have started the majority of the time. A credit to the Leach Beach" as it is proven to work. I believe in 2012 they were able to start the same lineman for the 12 game schedule without an injury. And I believe they were able to do the same in 2013. And 2013 MAdison missed time because of moni, but he did miss time. And then Sam Flor started against USC. Wasn't that his first start, and isn't that the game Halliday had his leg broken, and who was blocking the player who rolled up on the leg?
Not what I said. I said nobodybstood out to me except White. I also said I don't watch the replays anymore so maybe I missed some plays made by the younger kids...but nobody has really stood out to me like they did on the 92 defense.
Injuries on the OL have been relatively minimal. But, no the same 5 guys did not start all of 2012, and the same five guys did not start all of 2013. This kind of information is very easy to look up.
For 2014, Seydel took over Madison's spot and Flor got some time while Sorenson was gimpy.
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Actually, it is what you said- here:
Yes, White was "one of the kids I mentioned", also.
You saying one thing, then actually having said another- is not the same thing. Giving you visual proof, of what YOU ACTUALLY SAID, then still having you say, "no, same thing" is humorous, and only convinces you. This isn't even arguing- the search feature makes it super easy to show when you're making stuff up.
You might notice I'm only ever "arguing" with a very small number of people, whereas you seem to argue with many, many people. Food for thought, is all...
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Do you think Taylor will be starting at a safety position? Here is the problem I see with your comments. We won't get in the Brown debate again, other than to say if he did possess the speed you were talking about, he is gone. Our most experienced corner is gone. I like White at a safety position, I think Hameed showed a great burst but he was either hurt or Breske didn't trust him. Kevin Griffin probably had the best ball skills of teh whole bunch but he transferred because he wasn't going to play because his speed was suspect.
Lemora will be placed near the line of scrimmage making the defense faster. Half step too slow at safety, but move him to a hybrid position and he will be very effective. Do I see Torey Hunter or John Rushing
I do have to ask Wulffui... The whole Gibson thing. You make the claim Wulff and his staff caused Gibson stock to drop. Where do you believe his draft status to be? Where do you think he should have been picked. Based on what? How do you reconcile the fact he had the same guy teaching him that he had the year before and that his position coach had put numerous players in the draft.
Tell me again why Zach Williams got picked? You said he was horrible yet he was drafted. My guess is because of his work at the combine. Why didn't Gibson move up in the draft after his workout.
The truth is he no longer had Alex Brink to get him the ball. That and there was not one QB on the roster who took meaningful snaps the previous three years. Luke Falk has probably 10 times the experience after three games than Gary Rogers had in three seasons.
Finally, open competition. You don't like the idea of open competition? Has Leach announced a starter for 2015? Or will he open up the competition?
My bad Dgibbons...How many starts were lost in 2012 and 2013 because of injury? That is what I was trying to convey. If you read earlier posts you would be aware that I have said in the past Rico Forbes started in 2013 and could not cut the mustard. But thanks for the clarification. In 2012 and 2013 how many freshman saw the field.
I don't like opening competition when the answer is plain as day. Connor Halliday wasn't in open competition last year. And any time the other option was Kevin Lopina, no, there shouldn't have been open competition- we all saw Lopina, and whether Rogers was good or not, he was miles better than Lopina.
So, no, when one QB is noticeably better and you're installing a new offense does not strike me as the time for open competition.
And no, I think Dotson starts over Taliulu.
I've also mentioned the change in Levenseller's duties about a half dozen times now, but it just feeds back to the awful head coach- the one who thought Levenseller's offense needed to be displaced for Sturdy (wrong about that), the one who thought (he must have, right? Otherwise, why open it up...) that Kevin Lopina was a starter level P-10 QB, among a litany of errors.
Are you implying Wulff coming on didn't hurt Gibson's draft stock?
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Once again, you can't say Wulff ruined Gibson..then have a record setting receiver under the same watch.
You wonder why I argue with a lot of people on here..its because most have never played a down of football, which is fine...yet they are the ones who bark the loudest on here.
So I am fine not being a part of the majority on here.
Holy crow.
You said this was something I said, and I told you it wasn't.
But you persisted, so I showed you that it wasn't something I said (and the search function makes this a three second task, so it wasn't like some "max effort detective work")...
And now, you still continue to insist this is something I said. And I'm stumped because, in my eyes, the prosecution should have rested when I actually presented the words I said, and not your half-assed interpretation of them.
There's no point. You're operating in a realm of fiction.
Shouldn't you be stalking Ed's coworkers and posting their names on this board? Yeah that's normal behavior.
Well, I think it's better to get it right, yes. Yes, he absolutely had a big part in that. You disagree. I think displacing Levy's offense for Sturdy dramatically affected his numbers and his stock. That was a choice Wulff made. Again, I don't need any "stats" or QB comparisons- that offense was terrible, and shouldn't have seen the light of the Pac-10.
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I am suggesting not having a QB capable or experienced is the problem. You do get that wasn't "levy's" offense correct. He was OC in name only. Rosie called the game. What do you believe was the drastic change in offense?
If you are a new staff how do you know what either Rogers or Lopina can do? The greater problem was lack of an experienced QB. They had two qb's with maybe 50 snaps between the two QB's. Falk had that in one game.
But what draft stock? What he had been projected in the year before ?
So, you keep using this line. So I would LOVE to hear your football resume ???
Whitworth was too busy dorkin' out on the computer learning how to create memes to put on shoulder pads.
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He split time with Halliday and he got injured in 2012. He had a higher completion percentage in 2012 and we threw for more TDs.
In year one under Leach we ranked...
2012 passing offense - #9
2012 - Total offense - #94
2012 - Scoring Offense - #106
2010 passing offense #42
2010 Total Offense - #92
2010 Scoring Offense - #106
So basically year one was very similar to 2010 in offense except a dramatic difference in Passing offense.
So Leach was able to accomplish what Wulff did in 3 years...without a QB by committee/injury
But to make it a true comparison We will look at year 3 Leach vs year 3 Wulff production.
2014 - Passing offense - #1
2014 - Total Offense - #7
2014 - Scoring Offense - #45
It's not even close. And that's with the starting QB suffering a season ending injury in 2014.
You bring up an interesting point here...and this goes back to my arguments with Wulffui and dgibbons...I thought qb's only got hurt under Wulff.
All QBs are in danger with the way Wulff recruited O-line. We may be finally getting close to getting out of that territory.
