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Remember, there were underlying reasons TT fired Leach

Cougsocal

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His welcome was wearing thin and he was due a million dollar bonus. The same frustration we feel now, was same frustration felt at TT. TT was short sighted. They wanted championships, but weren't being realistic. We went down this road ourselves to a certain extent with Price. Fans and the admin appreciated him so little, they balked at giving his assistants 2 year deals. And we suffered, boy did we suffer as a result. We learnt our lesson, or I hope we did.

Leach wants a big time job, so he remains motivated. He now knows that what he has done at WSU, didn't impress they way he expected it to. Price didn't get the Alabama job until he his second Rose Bowl bid. We all know what Leach's weak link has been. With this recruiting class he may have turned the corner on that weak link. So there is reason for optimism, optimism that would not otherwise be there had he pull yet another bottom tier recruiting class (relatively)..

We may not always be the perpetual undermanned bridesmaid under Leach, which is at the core our our frustration.. The cavalry may be on its way.
 
His welcome was wearing thin and he was due a million dollar bonus. The same frustration we feel now, was same frustration felt at TT. TT was short sighted. They wanted championships, but weren't being realistic. We went down this road ourselves to a certain extent with Price. Fans and the admin appreciated him so little, they balked at giving his assistants 2 year deals. And we suffered, boy did we suffer as a result. We learnt our lesson, or I hope we did.

Leach wants a big time job, so he remains motivated. He now knows that what he has done at WSU, didn't impress they way he expected it to. Price didn't get the Alabama job until he his second Rose Bowl bid. We all know what Leach's weak link has been. With this recruiting class he may have turned the corner on that weak link. So there is reason for optimism, optimism that would not otherwise be there had he pull yet another bottom tier recruiting class (relatively)..

We may not always be the perpetual undermanned bridesmaid under Leach, which is at the core our our frustration.. The cavalry may be on its way.

socal, this is a is a ridiculous and fact-void post.

CML's welcome was not wearing thin - not with TT fans for sure. With his crooked Admin, yeah.

Pretty sure you have no idea what CML "wants".

Other than that, not sure what the "cavalry" is. Cooper and Borghi?

Oh and Price got too big for his britches. He was getting raises and bonuses, but wanted more. And he got it - his Destiny. :rolleyes:
 
I get frustrated when the team doesn't show up for a game, and we were maddeningly inconsistent this year. But I want Leach to stay as long as he wants to stay. I'll put up with the irritation in exchange for consistent winning seasons, stability, and hopefully a couple opportunities at really special moments. That's all we can ever ask for as Coug fans, and he gives us that, even if it comes at the cost of some frustrating viewing at times. That's actually why I'm hoping Grinch sticks around another season or two as well. I still expect us to get gashed sometimes defensively with our front as thin as it is, but a stable staff that's giving us good recruiting results means talent upgrades and better depth.
 
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Sorry, SoCal, but Loyal is right. His problem was not with the fan base but the higher ups. Tech had just earned an appearance in the Alamo Bowl (possibly incorrect but it was a bowl in Texas) and had attracted the school's best recruiting class in years. What was not to like? At the bowl game the TT president was introduced and was booed unmercifully by the crowd who then started chanting "We want Leach". Football was on a roll in Lubbock and the fans were enjoying themselves. The administration simply did not want to pay for it and grabbed the bogus James kid story to fire Mike and then hid behind sovereign immunity.

I don't know what Mike wants nor do I care. My opinion would have no impact on his desires so why worry about it? He is here now and I am pleased by it and will let it go at that.
 
Leach should stay as long as he wants. However, with his 4 million dollar contract, he will raise expectations and should expect questions and criticism. CML is not a good guy,in my opinion ,but he could rightly give a damn what some people think. He will do things his own way and it has been largely good for WSU. He is a hell of a coach but he has warts and pimples like everyone else. What you see is what you get from the man. Nine wins after the Wulff fiasco is probably as good as it is going to get.
 
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Leach should stay as long as he wants. However, with his 4 million dollar contract, he will raise expectations and should expect questions and criticism. CML is not a good guy,in my opinion ,but he could rightly give a damn what some people think. He will do things his own way and it has been largely good for WSU. He is a hell of a coach but he has warts and pimples like everyone else. What you see is what you get from the man. Nine wins after the Wulff fiasco is probably as good as it is going to get.
not a good guy? what prompted that statement?
 
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I'm with SoCal on most of this one, more than Loyal.

I have a passel of TT buddies of my general age (late '70's through mid '80's grads). All football fanatics. Every one would agree with SoCal's summary. The fans DID NOT want to dump Leach, but they had a lot of frustration, and it is exactly the same frustration you hear today from Cougs who lack perspective. The lack of a running punch in the red zone, going for it on 4th down, no scholarship kickers...the litany is remarkably similar, and all was predicted over several fermented beverages when it was announced that Leach was Pullman-bound. But the conclusion was that while he would occasionally drive us crazy, we would be forever glad that we hired him. And the only really accurate thing that Loyal said...that the TT Admin was crooked...was also emphasized. Leach won't work for a crook. As long as we were not run by crooks, or people with grossly oversized egos, we would have a football coach. I was told all of this within a week of Leach's hiring. And all of it has panned out pretty much as predicted.

I tend to agree with one of SoCal's general points...that the successive good recruiting classes have set us up to take the next step. That is the cavalry; it is the sum of the solid groups, not a couple of individuals. The fact that we are NOT dependent upon a couple of individuals in the class pretty much makes the point. Other than DL, we're deep, and our "not deep" # of DL signees still compare well with many years in the past 15.

My only real disagreement with SoCal relates to his assumption that Leach is trying to succeed so he can move to a bigger school. I don't think that is the case. Leach used the uncertainty to leverage a raise for himself and a bump for the assistants. He probably also needed to tangibly confirm where he stood with Schultz. Neither is a surprise under the circumstances, and I'd have been more surprised if this had NOT happened.

At this point in his life it appears to me that CML likes Pullman, wants to be paid at a level that confirms that we value him, and wants to win in Pullman to show the rest of college football that TT committed a major sin of stupidity when they dumped him to weasel out of a bonus. We are in for 7-10 years of good football with CML as our HC.
 
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I'm with SoCal on most of this one, more than Loyal.

I have a passel of TT buddies of my general age (late '70's through mid '80's grads). All football fanatics. Every one would agree with SoCal's summary. The fans DID NOT want to dump Leach, but they had a lot of frustration, and it is exactly the same frustration you hear today from Cougs who lack perspective. The lack of a running punch in the red zone, going for it on 4th down, no scholarship kickers...the litany is remarkably similar, and all was predicted over several fermented beverages when it was announced that Leach was Pullman-bound. But the conclusion was that while he would occasionally drive us crazy, we would be forever glad that we hired him. And the only really accurate thing that Loyal said...that the TT Admin was crooked...was also emphasized. Leach won't work for a crook. As long as we were not run by crooks, or people with grossly oversized egos, we would have a football coach. I was told all of this within a week of Leach's hiring. And all of it has panned out pretty much as predicted.

I tend to agree with one of SoCal's general points...that the successive good recruiting classes have set us up to take the next step. That is the cavalry; it is the sum of the solid groups, not a couple of individuals. The fact that we are NOT dependent upon a couple of individuals in the class pretty much makes the point. Other than DL, we deep, and our "not deep" # of DL signees still compare well with many years in the past 15.

My only real disagreement with SoCal relates to his assumption that Leach is trying to succeed so he can move to a bigger school. I don't think that is the case. Leach used the uncertainty to leverage a raise for himself and a bump for the assistants. He probably also needed to tangibly confirm where he stood with Schultz. Neither is a surprise under the circumstances, and I'd have been more surprised if this had NOT happened.

At this point in his life it appears to me that CML likes Pullman, wants to be paid at a level that confirms that we value him, and wants to win in Pullman to show the rest of college football that TT committed a major sin of stupidity when they dumped him to weasel out of a bonus. We are in for 7-10 years of good football with CML as our HC.

I could not have said it getter. If Leach feels he, his staff, and his program is being treated fairly. He will stay. Leach own a difficult negotiation at TT. The administration was determine not to honor the contract. It was done in such a way that it was a black eye for all of Texas public institutions. It is amazing coaches still come and trust the Texas universities, although I do not think any of them are likely to repeat what TT did.
 
I'm with SoCal on most of this one, more than Loyal.

I have a passel of TT buddies of my general age (late '70's through mid '80's grads). All football fanatics. Every one would agree with SoCal's summary. The fans DID NOT want to dump Leach, but they had a lot of frustration, and it is exactly the same frustration you hear today from Cougs who lack perspective. The lack of a running punch in the red zone, going for it on 4th down, no scholarship kickers...the litany is remarkably similar, and all was predicted over several fermented beverages when it was announced that Leach was Pullman-bound. But the conclusion was that while he would occasionally drive us crazy, we would be forever glad that we hired him. And the only really accurate thing that Loyal said...that the TT Admin was crooked...was also emphasized. Leach won't work for a crook. As long as we were not run by crooks, or people with grossly oversized egos, we would have a football coach. I was told all of this within a week of Leach's hiring. And all of it has panned out pretty much as predicted.

I tend to agree with one of SoCal's general points...that the successive good recruiting classes have set us up to take the next step. That is the cavalry; it is the sum of the solid groups, not a couple of individuals. The fact that we are NOT dependent upon a couple of individuals in the class pretty much makes the point. Other than DL, we deep, and our "not deep" # of DL signees still compare well with many years in the past 15.

My only real disagreement with SoCal relates to his assumption that Leach is trying to succeed so he can move to a bigger school. I don't think that is the case. Leach used the uncertainty to leverage a raise for himself and a bump for the assistants. He probably also needed to tangibly confirm where he stood with Schultz. Neither is a surprise under the circumstances, and I'd have been more surprised if this had NOT happened.

At this point in his life it appears to me that CML likes Pullman, wants to be paid at a level that confirms that we value him, and wants to win in Pullman to show the rest of college football that TT committed a major sin of stupidity when they dumped him to weasel out of a bonus. We are in for 7-10 years of good football with CML as our HC.

Every Tech fan that I have ever met agrees with Loyal's take. The only thing that they didn't like was that every year he would go interview (including the uw) for other jobs.

But, they all to a person loved him as a coach and how he coached. Even when he was hired, on both brand x and here, they said he was strange, but he would win games that he shouldn't and lose games that he should.
 
I just do not like CML personally I am sure he will never know or care less about who dislikes him. He has been very successful in his chosen field and has made a lot of money.What a few people think of him will not cause him to lose any sleep. The coug faithful are mostly behind him and i hope he has a very good year.
 
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not a good guy? what prompted that statement?

While we all agree that Leach is a better than average coach, Leach is definitely not someone that I would call a "good guy". He is narcissistic, arrogant, probably insane in some fashion and we all know that he makes decisions that would make any fanbase feel frustration. I appreciate what Leach has done for us but what kind of lunatic blows fanatically on his coffee in the middle of a press conference? Texas Tech fans called him TSO (the strange one) for a reason.

He was manipulative at Tech and that pissed off the administration there. He is now doing the same kind of thing here. Interviewing with Tennessee to get a pay raise isn't that unusual, but if he pulls that crap again next year without taking us to a Rose Bowl, he should just go wherever he is flirting with. Annual BS isn't necessary and that was what was going on at Tech at the end. Anyone who spends five minutes watching Leach should realize that Leach isn't a nice guy. He is a good coach and other than flirting with Tennessee and other than sucking against the mutts and bowl competition, he's been a good enough representative of WSU to deserve the big raise he got.

I'm glad that he's our lunatic though.
 
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Flat, I don't know Leach personally so cannot ascribe him as "good" or not but will give him the benefit of the doubt. While he does have an ego, I am not sure that it is to the level of arrogance or narcissism. He does have a remarkable lack of awareness of expected social behavior at times which some have attributed to a degree of Asperger's. His rudeness may come across as arrogant to some and that is understandable.

TT was reluctant to compensate him at a level approximating that of equally successful coaches and challenged him to try the open market to show what interest he received from other schools. Which he did, much to the aggravation of the administration in Lubbock. You call it manipulation; I call it leverage. And I firmly believe that this is what occurred in L.A. with the Tennessee AD. The AD at the time asked for a meeting. Leach, or at least his agent, was in the midst of negotiations with WSU. 'Sure, why not? It helped at TT and I can use the leverage here too.' I do not believe for a minute that he was seriously considering going to Knoxville into that clown show with Phil Fulmer, who while not AD at the time was an influential pain in the butt and a back stabber, looking over his shoulder. He was going to leave Pullman just when things are looking up and give up his prized independence for Knoxville? Anything is possible but I firmly doubt it.

Whether he is "nice" or "good" I cannot say but we can agree that he is indeed different. I'll agree with you on one thing. He may be a weirdo but he's our weirdo and we like it that way.
 
While we all agree that Leach is a better than average coach, Leach is definitely not someone that I would call a "good guy". He is narcissistic, arrogant, probably insane in some fashion and we all know that he makes decisions that would make any fanbase feel frustration. I appreciate what Leach has done for us but what kind of lunatic blows fanatically on his coffee in the middle of a press conference? Texas Tech fans called him TSO (the strange one) for a reason.

He was manipulative at Tech and that pissed off the administration there. He is now doing the same kind of thing here. Interviewing with Tennessee to get a pay raise isn't that unusual, but if he pulls that crap again next year without taking us to a Rose Bowl, he should just go wherever he is flirting with. Annual BS isn't necessary and that was what was going on at Tech at the end. Anyone who spends five minutes watching Leach should realize that Leach isn't a nice guy. He is a good coach and other than flirting with Tennessee and other than sucking against the mutts and bowl competition, he's been a good enough representative of WSU to deserve the big raise he got.

I'm glad that he's our lunatic though.
We could say many not flattering things about you regarding some of the posts that you have had over the years. Some people really have gone after you at various times. Some of the things or similar things have been said of you that you have described of Leach.

Frankly, none of us know you. I am guessing that you have never been arrested, assaulted women, etc. For all of us know, neither has Leach. There are things that I do have disagreements with him, but I would never call him not a good guy. I reserve that line of thinking to people who have proven by their actions to really not be good guys.
 
Leach is strange for sure. However, I am thankful for his bringing winning football back to WSU.
 
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Leach does a lot of things at a high level as a head coach. Recruiting, development, hiring assistants, etc. I'd call it the CEO parts of being a college coach. He's really good at them.
He sucked as an OC this year. He's been lacking in innovating his offense and finding ways to make it more efficient. He's holding on too tightly to his original Air Raid blue print and it's killing his teams 2-3 times a year. He can be stubborn and hang on to his old ways and win 7-9 games a year, or he can reflect on his flaws and evolve and get to the next level as a coach. Ironically, his unwillingness to evolve will likely keep other potential suitors away, so we are going to have as many years as we want of 7-9 win teams that finish 3rd-5th in the conference...certainly better than historical standards, but I just don't see a PAC 12 title in his future.
 
We could say many not flattering things about you regarding some of the posts that you have had over the years. Some people really have gone after you at various times. Some of the things or similar things have been said of you that you have described of Leach.

Frankly, none of us know you. I am guessing that you have never been arrested, assaulted women, etc. For all of us know, neither has Leach. There are things that I do have disagreements with him, but I would never call him not a good guy. I reserve that line of thinking to people who have proven by their actions to really not be good guys.

It all depends on what you think a person needs to do to be a good person. On the money front, I volunteered to take a pay cut in 2010 so that my co-workers could get a pay raise during the great recession. When I saw a handicapped person laying on the side of the road because the tire on their wheelchair blew out, I stopped, and with the help of another good samaritan, put his wheelchair in my truck and took him to his apartment while hundreds of other people drove by without stopping. When I saw a guy struggling to get his jack under his vehicle, I used my lower profile jack to get it high enough to get him going. It's not an every day occurrence, but I think it's important to help others when you see them in need and I've done so hundreds of times over the past 20+ years. I've owned a house in Las Vegas for 4 years that I let my family members live in even though I'm losing money every month because it's the right thing to do. I used to go kayaking and bike riding with my elderly neighbor before he became too weak to do it safely. My wife and I bought a car for her mom to make sure that she didn't have to worry about it. I definitely haven't assaulted women or been arrested. I donate my time and money to causes that I think are worthy.

I don't go to my employer and threaten to change jobs to leverage a pay raise even though I undoubtedly could have. I may make the occasional inflammatory statement but there is no way, shape or form where I can be compared when it comes to Leach's strangeness and self-involved nature. Leach is not a "bad man" from what I've seen.....but he hasn't done anything that suggests that he is trying to make any other difference in the world than making our football team better. The most charitable thing that you can say about Leach is that he wants his student athletes to graduate and that they shouldn't hit women, steal or use drugs. It's better than nothing of course.

EDIT: One interesting thing about Leach is that even though he is arrogant and self-involved, he doesn't obsess about what anyone else thinks about him. He really doesn't care what you or I think about him. He seeks no validation from others and what we consider "good" is different from how normal people think.....just like everything else about the man. He's just a different cat.
 
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:Flatland Coug - "One interesting thing about Leach is that even though he is arrogant and self-involved, he doesn't obsess about what anyone else thinks about him. He really doesn't care what you or I think about him. He seeks no validation from others and what we consider "good" is different from how normal people think.....just like everything else about the man. He's just a different cat."

I think this is very accurate, and by clinical definition this is not a Narcissist. People also say Aspergers but numerous posters have said they've interacted with Leach and he can be very engaged and charming. Apparently he does well when meeting with recruits and their families...this is not Aspergers...

Leach doesn't have a clinical diagnosis...he is simply "TSO".
 
Flat, we each march to our own drummer. Been that way as long as there have been people. Just look at the decisions that your kids make when they become adults; everyone has to process the situation and make decisions on their own.

I also do not know CML, so I can only offer what I perceive to be a fair read based upon what I've seen him say and do. The "thou shalt not steal", "thou shalt not strike women" and "thou shalt pursue thy education seriously" commandments seem to be his baseline for minimum acceptable behavior from his players. I think that you can infer a lot from that. There are other potential commandments, but they are only introduced on an "as needed", situational basis and have not been graven onto any stone tablets. It appears to me that he realizes that he is one of the moulding forces in his young men's lives, and he attempts to strike a balance between imposing limits and permitting growth experiences. Is he perfect at that? Probably no more than any of us have been perfect fathers, sons, brothers, etc. You give it your best shot and try to keep your personal honor intact. Probably the most important thing that I've learned is that young men of almost any age will respond to your expectations. Place higher expectations and you will get greater effort; have low expectations and low results will follow. I see Leach using that approach quite often. He also does not generally seem to fly off the handle and impose sanctions without looking at both sides of the story, which is something that we all probably have to struggle with from time to time. We are all works in progress, regardless of age, so I'm sure his maturity has come over time and at a price...as it does with us all.

Many seem to try to brand Leach as "stubborn". I think that misses the mark rather badly. I think Leach has a better understanding of trade-offs than most people. You can certainly choose to do things differently, but there are always consequences. Some consequences are good, some are bad. The Air Raid requires an exceptionally high level of personal discipline in order to have proper execution. Taking run opportunities when they present themselves is fine. Pre-engineering run decisions is a slippery slope for this offensive system. Letting the QB make the decision has elements of risk, but so does any approach, and CML's experience has taught him that the QB is the best place for the decision to reside. I'm sure that the film review after a game will show places where the QB should have made a different decision, and I'm sure those are discussed at some length. It's a learning process. Now that we all know that Luke had a broken wrist for most of the season, a number of things (including the perceived regression in performance this year) become more clear. I think this year was a bit of an outlier; how often do you have a QB with this type of injury play for the season? Hilinski was not ready to be the man, and both Luke and Leach made a number of adjustments. Were they perfect? Of course not. Did they evolve over time? Of course they did. Does Luke's greater reluctance to run this year as opposed to last year make a whole lot more sense? Sure, and that plus our weaker group of WR's, especially at the end of the season, put pieces of the Air Raid out of balance.

Every year has new kids and new challenges. The PAC is hard on green QB's, and that will be true next season for the Cougs. It looks to me as though the offensive supporting cast will be at least as good overall as this year, and in some ways it may be better. CML will continue to grow and evolve in his understanding of the consequences of system tweaks. The young men for which he has responsibility will be held to the same standards. The expectations that he sets will continue to be high.

I'll close with this. The difference between intelligence and wisdom is judgement. Judgement is acquired only through mistakes. It is the rare among us who can learn from the mistakes of others; usually we have to learn from our own mistakes. CML has acquired a lot of judgement over the years. None of us are ever done making mistakes, improving our judgement or increasing our wisdom. I can only imagine what CML learned from this season, played with Luke's physical limitations. I think we will see some evidence of that during summer ball. Why not spring ball? Because spring is when the next crop of players has to show what they can do, so first string choices can be made; that is the primary role of spring ball, and I'll be surprised if tweaks are extremely visible then. Our recruiting has seemed to improve a bit every year. Our depth has followed along with that. Incremental improvement only, but you can see the increments over time. O line improvements in particular will, I suspect, lead to more run game capability. Depending upon this coming year's QB and his skill set, as well as the improvement in WR's and need to use a 2 back set to provide an additional quality receiver, we will probably see more 2 back and a bit more running plays.

This has been a big year for CML and staff to acquire judgement. Not so much because they made a lot of mistakes, but instead because the circumstances at QB were downright weird, and unlikely to be repeated. We'll see where that takes us in 2018, based on the new group of players.
 
socal, this is a is a ridiculous and fact-void post.

CML's welcome was not wearing thin - not with TT fans for sure. With his crooked Admin, yeah.

Pretty sure you have no idea what CML "wants".

Other than that, not sure what the "cavalry" is. Cooper and Borghi?

Oh and Price got too big for his britches. He was getting raises and bonuses, but wanted more. And he got it - his Destiny. :rolleyes:

I can only defend myself with actual evidence. Here is an "in depth" article on the Leach firing, written at the time. Not by TT fans looking back with rose color glasses. In Texas you don't fire any coach without influential booster assent. The people who mattered wanted Leach gone. Every coach has his supporters. Wulff had his supporters who condemned his firing for god sake. No one ever deserved being fired more.

Let's not forget leeches, there is an uncontroverted report that Leach had a MOU to be the coach of a "big time," but very unstable program. If it weren't true, a categorical denial would have followed in the height of the recruiting season. What we got was, "I'm not saying one way or another." Only leeches would look past the realty of that situation. Coaching is a business.

I know leeches believe that Leach has been out recruiting P-12 programs left, right and center. But an unbiased source, Rivals, had WSU last in recruiting the previous 5 years, 10.8 average ranking. For the first time Rivals has us ranked #4, i.e. an upper division class, low 30s nationally. Assuming the same Leach astute talent evaluation, this is the type of recruiting we need to actually not get rolled over and over by a vastly more talented Husky team. That is the Cavalry in my book. I not a leech, so I would like championships and not getting run by the Dawgs every year. We just don't have the talent to get there yet. With recurrent upper division recruiting classes we will.

As for Price being too big for his britches -- who here, besides me, heard his repeated pitch at Cougar Club functions that he would take a dollar raise, if his staff got two year contract? Obviously opinionated, but fact devoid, Loyal isn't one of them. Compared to Leach, Mike Price was Gandhi on the ego front. That slight by fans and the admin was at the heart of him taking the Alabama job. The sad fact is, we as fans put no pressure on the admin to agree to this modest proposal, a proposal that Doba got on day one.

https://www.sbnation.com/2009/12/31...t-what-really-doomed-mike-leach-at-texas-tech
 
While we all agree that Leach is a better than average coach, Leach is definitely not someone that I would call a "good guy". He is narcissistic, arrogant, probably insane in some fashion and we all know that he makes decisions that would make any fanbase feel frustration. I appreciate what Leach has done for us but what kind of lunatic blows fanatically on his coffee in the middle of a press conference? Texas Tech fans called him TSO (the strange one) for a reason.

He was manipulative at Tech and that pissed off the administration there. He is now doing the same kind of thing here. Interviewing with Tennessee to get a pay raise isn't that unusual, but if he pulls that crap again next year without taking us to a Rose Bowl, he should just go wherever he is flirting with. Annual BS isn't necessary and that was what was going on at Tech at the end. Anyone who spends five minutes watching Leach should realize that Leach isn't a nice guy. He is a good coach and other than flirting with Tennessee and other than sucking against the mutts and bowl competition, he's been a good enough representative of WSU to deserve the big raise he got.

I'm glad that he's our lunatic though.

Wow, a brave post. It mirrors my view. I just don.t have the guts to be that frank. The cult of personality thing scares me, leeches want the man beatified.
 
It all depends on what you think a person needs to do to be a good person. On the money front, I volunteered to take a pay cut in 2010 so that my co-workers could get a pay raise during the great recession. When I saw a handicapped person laying on the side of the road because the tire on their wheelchair blew out, I stopped, and with the help of another good samaritan, put his wheelchair in my truck and took him to his apartment while hundreds of other people drove by without stopping. When I saw a guy struggling to get his jack under his vehicle, I used my lower profile jack to get it high enough to get him going. It's not an every day occurrence, but I think it's important to help others when you see them in need and I've done so hundreds of times over the past 20+ years. I've owned a house in Las Vegas for 4 years that I let my family members live in even though I'm losing money every month because it's the right thing to do. I used to go kayaking and bike riding with my elderly neighbor before he became too weak to do it safely. My wife and I bought a car for her mom to make sure that she didn't have to worry about it. I definitely haven't assaulted women or been arrested. I donate my time and money to causes that I think are worthy.

I don't go to my employer and threaten to change jobs to leverage a pay raise even though I undoubtedly could have. I may make the occasional inflammatory statement but there is no way, shape or form where I can be compared when it comes to Leach's strangeness and self-involved nature. Leach is not a "bad man" from what I've seen.....but he hasn't done anything that suggests that he is trying to make any other difference in the world than making our football team better. The most charitable thing that you can say about Leach is that he wants his student athletes to graduate and that they shouldn't hit women, steal or use drugs. It's better than nothing of course.

EDIT: One interesting thing about Leach is that even though he is arrogant and self-involved, he doesn't obsess about what anyone else thinks about him. He really doesn't care what you or I think about him. He seeks no validation from others and what we consider "good" is different from how normal people think.....just like everything else about the man. He's just a different cat.

Leach has performed better for three years than a lot of guys that were making more than he was.
 
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I can only defend myself with actual evidence. Here is an "in depth" article on the Leach firing, written at the time. Not by TT fans looking back with rose color glasses. In Texas you don't fire any coach without influential booster assent. The people who mattered wanted Leach gone. Every coach has his supporters. Wulff had his supporters who condemned his firing for god sake. No one ever deserved being fired more.

Let's not forget leeches, there is an uncontroverted report that Leach had a MOU to be the coach of a "big time," but very unstable program. If it weren't true, a categorical denial would have followed in the height of the recruiting season. What we got was, "I'm not saying one way or another." Only leeches would look past the realty of that situation. Coaching is a business.

I know leeches believe that Leach has been out recruiting P-12 programs left, right and center. But an unbiased source, Rivals, had WSU last in recruiting the previous 5 years, 10.8 average ranking. For the first time Rivals has us ranked #4, i.e. an upper division class, low 30s nationally. Assuming the same Leach astute talent evaluation, this is the type of recruiting we need to actually not get rolled over and over by a vastly more talented Husky team. That is the Cavalry in my book. I not a leech, so I would like championships and not getting run by the Dawgs every year. We just don't have the talent to get there yet. With recurrent upper division recruiting classes we will.

As for Price being too big for his britches -- who here, besides me, heard his repeated pitch at Cougar Club functions that he would take a dollar raise, if his staff got two year contract? Obviously opinionated, but fact devoid, Loyal isn't one of them. Compared to Leach, Mike Price was Gandhi on the ego front. That slight by fans and the admin was at the heart of him taking the Alabama job. The sad fact is, we as fans put no pressure on the admin to agree to this modest proposal, a proposal that Doba got on day one.

https://www.sbnation.com/2009/12/31...t-what-really-doomed-mike-leach-at-texas-tech
I have been told the MOU was never in place and he was never offered the Tenn job.

By the nature of the business they are self absorbed. Any community service is done by wife and family members .

I will say this again. If Moos was still here he wouldn’t talk to Tennessee and his biggest job concern would not be a concern. Yeah I am sure he likes his paycheck is going up, but it is all about the AD.
 
:Flatland Coug - "One interesting thing about Leach is that even though he is arrogant and self-involved, he doesn't obsess about what anyone else thinks about him. He really doesn't care what you or I think about him. He seeks no validation from others and what we consider "good" is different from how normal people think.....just like everything else about the man. He's just a different cat."

I think this is very accurate, and by clinical definition this is not a Narcissist. People also say Aspergers but numerous posters have said they've interacted with Leach and he can be very engaged and charming. Apparently he does well when meeting with recruits and their families...this is not Aspergers...

Leach doesn't have a clinical diagnosis...he is simply "TSO".

Great point about the narcissism. You have to care what others think to be a narcissist.
 
Flat, we each march to our own drummer. Been that way as long as there have been people. Just look at the decisions that your kids make when they become adults; everyone has to process the situation and make decisions on their own.

I also do not know CML, so I can only offer what I perceive to be a fair read based upon what I've seen him say and do. The "thou shalt not steal", "thou shalt not strike women" and "thou shalt pursue thy education seriously" commandments seem to be his baseline for minimum acceptable behavior from his players. I think that you can infer a lot from that. There are other potential commandments, but they are only introduced on an "as needed", situational basis and have not been graven onto any stone tablets. It appears to me that he realizes that he is one of the moulding forces in his young men's lives, and he attempts to strike a balance between imposing limits and permitting growth experiences. Is he perfect at that? Probably no more than any of us have been perfect fathers, sons, brothers, etc. You give it your best shot and try to keep your personal honor intact. Probably the most important thing that I've learned is that young men of almost any age will respond to your expectations. Place higher expectations and you will get greater effort; have low expectations and low results will follow. I see Leach using that approach quite often. He also does not generally seem to fly off the handle and impose sanctions without looking at both sides of the story, which is something that we all probably have to struggle with from time to time. We are all works in progress, regardless of age, so I'm sure his maturity has come over time and at a price...as it does with us all.

Many seem to try to brand Leach as "stubborn". I think that misses the mark rather badly. I think Leach has a better understanding of trade-offs than most people. You can certainly choose to do things differently, but there are always consequences. Some consequences are good, some are bad. The Air Raid requires an exceptionally high level of personal discipline in order to have proper execution. Taking run opportunities when they present themselves is fine. Pre-engineering run decisions is a slippery slope for this offensive system. Letting the QB make the decision has elements of risk, but so does any approach, and CML's experience has taught him that the QB is the best place for the decision to reside. I'm sure that the film review after a game will show places where the QB should have made a different decision, and I'm sure those are discussed at some length. It's a learning process. Now that we all know that Luke had a broken wrist for most of the season, a number of things (including the perceived regression in performance this year) become more clear. I think this year was a bit of an outlier; how often do you have a QB with this type of injury play for the season? Hilinski was not ready to be the man, and both Luke and Leach made a number of adjustments. Were they perfect? Of course not. Did they evolve over time? Of course they did. Does Luke's greater reluctance to run this year as opposed to last year make a whole lot more sense? Sure, and that plus our weaker group of WR's, especially at the end of the season, put pieces of the Air Raid out of balance.

Every year has new kids and new challenges. The PAC is hard on green QB's, and that will be true next season for the Cougs. It looks to me as though the offensive supporting cast will be at least as good overall as this year, and in some ways it may be better. CML will continue to grow and evolve in his understanding of the consequences of system tweaks. The young men for which he has responsibility will be held to the same standards. The expectations that he sets will continue to be high.

I'll close with this. The difference between intelligence and wisdom is judgement. Judgement is acquired only through mistakes. It is the rare among us who can learn from the mistakes of others; usually we have to learn from our own mistakes. CML has acquired a lot of judgement over the years. None of us are ever done making mistakes, improving our judgement or increasing our wisdom. I can only imagine what CML learned from this season, played with Luke's physical limitations. I think we will see some evidence of that during summer ball. Why not spring ball? Because spring is when the next crop of players has to show what they can do, so first string choices can be made; that is the primary role of spring ball, and I'll be surprised if tweaks are extremely visible then. Our recruiting has seemed to improve a bit every year. Our depth has followed along with that. Incremental improvement only, but you can see the increments over time. O line improvements in particular will, I suspect, lead to more run game capability. Depending upon this coming year's QB and his skill set, as well as the improvement in WR's and need to use a 2 back set to provide an additional quality receiver, we will probably see more 2 back and a bit more running plays.

This has been a big year for CML and staff to acquire judgement. Not so much because they made a lot of mistakes, but instead because the circumstances at QB were downright weird, and unlikely to be repeated. We'll see where that takes us in 2018, based on the new group of players.

I agree that a lot of Leach's decisions are made with specific intent and the things that he values in decision making aren't the same as what we might place importance on. His overall success suggests that his value system has merit even if we don't agree with or understand it.
 
I agree that a lot of Leach's decisions are made with specific intent and the things that he values in decision making aren't the same as what we might place importance on. His overall success suggests that his value system has merit even if we don't agree with or understand it.
Has anyone ever asked coach a question about the current administration (DT's) in a public setting? Not that that anything to do with coaching skills, but of all the crazy topics some reporters bring up.....the pink elephants are never brought up. "Next question".
 
His welcome was wearing thin and he was due a million dollar bonus. The same frustration we feel now, was same frustration felt at TT. TT was short sighted. They wanted championships, but weren't being realistic. We went down this road ourselves to a certain extent with Price. Fans and the admin appreciated him so little, they balked at giving his assistants 2 year deals. And we suffered, boy did we suffer as a result. We learnt our lesson, or I hope we did.

Leach wants a big time job, so he remains motivated. He now knows that what he has done at WSU, didn't impress they way he expected it to. Price didn't get the Alabama job until he his second Rose Bowl bid. We all know what Leach's weak link has been. With this recruiting class he may have turned the corner on that weak link. So there is reason for optimism, optimism that would not otherwise be there had he pull yet another bottom tier recruiting class (relatively)..

We may not always be the perpetual undermanned bridesmaid under Leach, which is at the core our our frustration.. The cavalry may be on its way.

Geezus fcking Christ, he's winning. He's not a cheat. What the fck else do you guys want? That is all you should care about: is he earning his contract and/ or is he building the program without selling out the future (by cheating, poor recruiting, etc).

Honestly, who cares if he's nice or likable? Who cares if we're frustrated - the coach and the players seem to be ok with getting blown out in the losses. Not my favorite thing, but: we're winning our non-cons, we have 6+ home games, we're over .500... again - I could go on and on. Football is the best its ever been in Pullman and here is this piece of sh!t thread bashing one of the key players (if not THE key player) who made it happen. Fcking ingrates.

(this wasn't directed at you, per se socal - at all of the posts bitching and slandering Leach as greedy, narcissitic, etc.)
 
I have been told the MOU was never in place and he was never offered the Tenn job.

By the nature of the business they are self absorbed. Any community service is done by wife and family members .

I will say this again. If Moos was still here he wouldn’t talk to Tennessee and his biggest job concern would not be a concern. Yeah I am sure he likes his paycheck is going up, but it is all about the AD.

What do you mean by "not in place"? Never existed or did not rise to the level of a contract. The latter is clear, or there would be threats of litigation by now. If there was no MOU, where are the reports saying there was never an MOU? As for the rest, do you have more than personal supposition to offer? Like loyal, your post is devoid of evidence (not to be confused with proof).
 
What do you mean by "not in place"? Never existed or did not rise to the level of a contract. The latter is clear, or there would be threats of litigation by now. If there was no MOU, where are the reports saying there was never an MOU? As for the rest, do you have more than personal supposition to offer? Like loyal, your post is devoid of evidence (not to be confused with proof).

What do you mean by "not in place"? Never existed or did not rise to the level of a contract. The latter is clear, or there would be threats of litigation by now. If there was no MOU, where are the reports saying there was never an MOU? As for the rest, do you have more than personal supposition to offer? Like loyal, your post is devoid of evidence (not to be confused with proof).
i don’t have evidence I have proof
 
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Geezus fcking Christ, he's winning. He's not a cheat. What the fck else do you guys want? That is all you should care about: is he earning his contract and/ or is he building the program without selling out the future (by cheating, poor recruiting, etc).

Honestly, who cares if he's nice or likable? Who cares if we're frustrated - the coach and the players seem to be ok with getting blown out in the losses. Not my favorite thing, but: we're winning our non-cons, we have 6+ home games, we're over .500... again - I could go on and on. Football is the best its ever been in Pullman and here is this piece of sh!t thread bashing one of the key players (if not THE key player) who made it happen. Fcking ingrates.

(this wasn't directed at you, per se socal - at all of the posts bitching and slandering Leach as greedy, narcissitic, etc.)

The point of the thread is that while Leach is a good coach and has made WSU a lot better than what it was, he is still a flawed human being (like all of us) and in time, people start to grow tired of the quirks once the school reaches whatever ceiling it appears that there is. Winning cures everything, but losing AC's and bowl games start to allow people to worry about the flaws that have always been there.

Personally, I hope that the slowly improving recruiting classes allow our ceiling to raise over time. As I said above, the only thing that will make me want to see Leach leave is if he starts flirting with other schools again next year with another AC loss and a mediocre showing at a bowl. I don't really enjoy having December turn into a depressing month on the WSU front on an annual basis. 8-9 wins is great and I can live with that, but not if I have to spend the whole month of December wondering what kind of ransom there is this year. I hope that the current contract that grows over time ends that crap for a few years at least.
 
Geezus fcking Christ, he's winning. He's not a cheat. What the fck else do you guys want? That is all you should care about: is he earning his contract and/ or is he building the program without selling out the future (by cheating, poor recruiting, etc).

Honestly, who cares if he's nice or likable? Who cares if we're frustrated - the coach and the players seem to be ok with getting blown out in the losses. Not my favorite thing, but: we're winning our non-cons, we have 6+ home games, we're over .500... again - I could go on and on. Football is the best its ever been in Pullman and here is this piece of sh!t thread bashing one of the key players (if not THE key player) who made it happen. Fcking ingrates.

(this wasn't directed at you, per se socal - at all of the posts bitching and slandering Leach as greedy, narcissitic, etc.)

In short, my post said frustration with Leach is not new. We shouldn't be stupid like TT. Leach remains motivated, and he appears to be overcoming his weak leak - recruiting. The Leeches response, in effect, was/is whose frustrated? Leach was universally loved at TT, excepted for by crooked reactionary administrators. Leach never played the field, and isn't and was never looking for a better opportunity. Finally, Leach's recruiting doesn't need improvement. Mike price was an egotistical bum.

That my friend is Kim Jong Un cult of personality like crap. If it isn't pure glowing praise, you have insulted the great leader, and his minions. Read my post again in light of reality, and tell me it wasn't a positive post.
 
I just do not like CML personally I am sure he will never know or care less about who dislikes him. He has been very successful in his chosen field and has made a lot of money.What a few people think of him will not cause him to lose any sleep. The coug faithful are mostly behind him and i hope he has a very good year.

How many times have you met and talked to CML? I have met him 3 times, met his wife and daughter, and had more than passing conversations with him each time. In my opinion, he is a good guy. He recruits good citizens, his graduation rates continue to climb, he takes care of his players and employees. You never hear ex-staff talking crap about him.

So that is the basis for my opinions.
 
In short, my post said frustration with Leach is not new. We shouldn't be stupid like TT. Leach remains motivated, and he appears to be overcoming his weak leak - recruiting. The Leeches response, in effect, was/is whose frustrated? Leach was universally loved at TT, excepted for by crooked reactionary administrators. Leach never played the field, and isn't and was never looking for a better opportunity. Finally, Leach's recruiting doesn't need improvement. Mike price was an egotistical bum.

That my friend is Kim Jong Un cult of personality like crap. If it isn't pure glowing praise, you have insulted the great leader, and his minions. Read my post again in light of reality, and tell me it wasn't a positive post.

Just want to point out that while Moos was here there was no dalliance with other schools. IMO, it ChickenSchulz’s budget nonsense that lead to Leach looking around. Not just to put more money in his pocket, the IPF, more for the assistants, more for the recruiting budget, etc. were the motivating factors.
 
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So, you’ll understand that no one will believe you.
After all these years of posting hasn't one thing become evident? I could care less what you or others think. And if Socal really wanted the proof he could IM I suppose and find out...if it was that important to him.
 
After all these years of posting hasn't one thing become evident? I could care less what you or others think. And if Socal really wanted the proof he could IM I suppose and find out...if it was that important to him.

One thing that’s evident is every once in awhile you claim some kind of insider knowledge. You’ve declined every opportunity to prove it.
 
How many times have you met and talked to CML? I have met him 3 times, met his wife and daughter, and had more than passing conversations with him each time. In my opinion, he is a good guy. He recruits good citizens, his graduation rates continue to climb, he takes care of his players and employees. You never hear ex-staff talking crap about him.

So that is the basis for my opinions.
Leach is a different guy. I have said this about most coaches...they have no time to think or do for others if that is the definition of good guy. They go to work at 6 get home at 10 or 11 when they are not on the road. When are they going to be able to get to the food bank and volunteer? To be honest if you look at the old salaries of the 1997 staff thru Leach's staff, the number of hours they put in divided by their yearly salary is a laughable per hour wage for their stress level.

The guy is well read, believes in the merits of Pullman, is a walking billboard for WSU and he is quirky as hell. And in terms of caring what otrhers think, it is true he doesn't. Once you care you are dead meat in his business. He doesn't care and good for him. It keeps him focused. The minute Doba went away from what he believed in and changed things that was the final nail in the coffin. He was a 4-3 guy and when he started to play 3-4 out of necessity he went away from what he did best. And I am not saying he became a 3-4 guy, but played it enough that what was his best base defense no longer was effective.
 
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