Remember, there were underlying reasons TT fired Leach

[Coug1990]

Flat, you are proving my point. You are more complex than the person that comes across on WW. Leach is more complex than what we all know of him. Just like you and what you let us know about you, I have a strong hunch that Leach does a lot of things behind the scenes that none of us know about.

So how do you know if he is a bad person?

 

[dgibbons]

Flat, you are proving my point. You are more complex than the person that comes across on WW. Leach is more complex than what we all know of him. Just like you and what you let us know about you, I have a strong hunch that Leach does a lot of things behind the scenes that none of us know about.

So how do you know if he is a bad person?

I’ll even say that especially in Leach’s line of work “arrogance” and “dickish” behavior is a helpful if not necessary trait. Plenty of coaches have been dicks, even ones with terrible W-L records. Charlie Weis is/was extraordinarily arrogant, with his decided schematic advantage. Paul Wulff was a total dick despite being the worst coach in school history.

 

[Cougsocal]

Just want to point out that while Moos was here there was no dalliance with other schools. IMO, it ChickenSchulz’s budget nonsense that lead to Leach looking around. Not just to put more money in his pocket, the IPF, more for the assistants, more for the recruiting budget, etc. were the motivating factors.

Accurate as far as we know. I'd like to know when Leach retain an agent, however. That would be the critical info. Raveling by all accounts was loyal to Sam to a fault. Some similarities are there. Schools weren't banging on Mike's door, before Moos came wooing, I would hope that meant something..

 

[CougEd]

Such as you wanting attention.

Nope. What is important is something you touched on . Leach never looked around before moos was gone. That is very important who he works for. As I mentioned when Floyd passed is the dynamics have changed. Now letting moos loose just further complicates it. Leach likes Pullman . But with his interests he could love Siberia . If Schulz figures out Leach is worth keeping around he best getting him an AD that is aligned with Leach

 

[dgibbons]

Accurate as far as we know. I'd like to know when Leach retain an agent, however. That would be the critical info. Raveling by all accounts was loyal to Sam to a fault. Some similarities are there. Schools weren't banging on Mike's door, before Moos came wooing, I would hope that meant something..

He’s always had an agent.

 

[dgibbons]

Nope. What is important is something you touched on . Leach never looked around before moos was gone. That is very important who he works for. As I mentioned when Floyd passed is the dynamics have changed. Now letting moos loose just further complicates it. Leach likes Pullman . But with his interests he could love Siberia . If Schulz figures out Leach is worth keeping around he best getting him an AD that is aligned with Leach

Have you had enough attention for today?

 

[CougEd]

Have you had enough attention for today?

From the people I care to get attention from the answer would be yes

 

[dgibbons]

From the people I care to get attention from the answer would be yes

Referring to the posters on this message board.

 

[FnuLnu]

I’ll even say that especially in Leach’s line of work “arrogance” and “dickish” behavior is a helpful if not necessary trait. Plenty of coaches have been dicks, even ones with terrible W-L records. Charlie Weis is/was extraordinarily arrogant, with his decided schematic advantage. Paul Wulff was a total dick despite being the worst coach in school history.

Wulff hit the sports identity jackpot for his WSU followers and whether he was a jerk in public or private didn't matter. Nor did his W-L record or the fact he is not just the worst coach in school history but also the worst coach in Power 5 history.

Wulff's bio made them feel good about themselves. Still does.

They had to hire an alum AD in order to can his ass and even then his firing almost didn't happen. And remains controversial.

 

[SideWaysDown]

Leach should stay as long as he wants. However, with his 4 million dollar contract, he will raise expectations and should expect questions and criticism. CML is not a good guy,in my opinion ,but he could rightly give a damn what some people think. He will do things his own way and it has been largely good for WSU. He is a hell of a coach but he has warts and pimples like everyone else. What you see is what you get from the man. Nine wins after the Wulff fiasco is probably as good as it is going to get.

Wow, Elsie I actually agree with your post. Shocked, I am. All except the last line, cuz I do think the Cougs can do better than 9 wins. Not every year, but the potential is there.

 

[Coug95man2]

It all depends on what you think a person needs to do to be a good person. On the money front, I volunteered to take a pay cut in 2010 so that my co-workers could get a pay raise during the great recession. When I saw a handicapped person laying on the side of the road because the tire on their wheelchair blew out, I stopped, and with the help of another good samaritan, put his wheelchair in my truck and took him to his apartment while hundreds of other people drove by without stopping. When I saw a guy struggling to get his jack under his vehicle, I used my lower profile jack to get it high enough to get him going. It's not an every day occurrence, but I think it's important to help others when you see them in need and I've done so hundreds of times over the past 20+ years. I've owned a house in Las Vegas for 4 years that I let my family members live in even though I'm losing money every month because it's the right thing to do. I used to go kayaking and bike riding with my elderly neighbor before he became too weak to do it safely. My wife and I bought a car for her mom to make sure that she didn't have to worry about it. I definitely haven't assaulted women or been arrested. I donate my time and money to causes that I think are worthy.

I don't go to my employer and threaten to change jobs to leverage a pay raise even though I undoubtedly could have. I may make the occasional inflammatory statement but there is no way, shape or form where I can be compared when it comes to Leach's strangeness and self-involved nature. Leach is not a "bad man" from what I've seen.....but he hasn't done anything that suggests that he is trying to make any other difference in the world than making our football team better. The most charitable thing that you can say about Leach is that he wants his student athletes to graduate and that they shouldn't hit women, steal or use drugs. It's better than nothing of course.

EDIT: One interesting thing about Leach is that even though he is arrogant and self-involved, he doesn't obsess about what anyone else thinks about him. He really doesn't care what you or I think about him. He seeks no validation from others and what we consider "good" is different from how normal people think.....just like everything else about the man. He's just a different cat.

This whole post is one of the most intolerant things said about a person, without knowing them, that I think I've seen here in a while. You don't know what CML does when he see's a dude that needs a jack, or a person with a flat wheelchair wheel... holy crap this post is the most judgmental, intolerant... wowzers.

 

[Coug95man2]

I have been told the MOU was never in place and he was never offered the Tenn job.

By the nature of the business they are self absorbed. Any community service is done by wife and family members .

I will say this again. If Moos was still here he wouldn’t talk to Tennessee and his biggest job concern would not be a concern. Yeah I am sure he likes his paycheck is going up, but it is all about the AD.

As you put it, "let me play devils advocate", with you. You say, "any community service is done by the wife and family members."

1. Please tell me what CML's family has done in the community? I'm truthfully intrigued. You state they have. Just wondering.
2. Please tell me what things CML has NOT done in Pullman? How about the Key's? He travels quite a bit to the islands (Indonesian), has he done anything in THOSE communities? How about contributions? In the Key's kind of contributions? How about in Lubbock or Norman. He has quite a few ties still there and visits friends there quite often. Thoughts or knowledge? Please share so we can understand your perspective on this.

In short, some coaches that I've met (and I haven't met CML on a personal basis due to specific reasons) are some of the most giving, caring people. Example, I'd heard about Iowa States thing with the children hospital and I knew the coach had personal involvement but his story just prior to their bowl game shows some incredible giving. I've also met some complete aholes too. But I'd love to know any facts you have on this and CML, to enlighten us all. Your broad stroke judgement regarding people you don't even know is... interesting.

 

[Loyal Coug]

What do you mean by "not in place"? Never existed or did not rise to the level of a contract. The latter is clear, or there would be threats of litigation by now. If there was no MOU, where are the reports saying there was never an MOU? As for the rest, do you have more than personal supposition to offer? Like loyal, your post is devoid of evidence (not to be confused with proof).

Gee I had to come back to this post. All I can say is Hah!. Socal had another post in this thread where he offers up as his "evidence" of CML's misdeeds an article written days after his TT firing. The article contains numerous since-disproven "facts" about the Adam James (non)incident. If you read CML's book, you will know that James recanted his story about being locked up anywhere. But here we are 8 years later and Socal trots out this story as if it were fact. It's not.

To recap:
Socal and some others have no facts, have never met CML, and make things up as they go.
The all-knowing Loyal Coug has facts, or else keeps his mouth shut.

https://www.sbnation.com/2009/12/31...t-what-really-doomed-mike-leach-at-texas-tech

 

[Loyal Coug]

This whole post is one of the most intolerant things said about a person, without knowing them, that I think I've seen here in a while. You don't know what CML does when he see's a dude that needs a jack, or a person with a flat wheelchair wheel... holy crap this post is the most judgmental, intolerant... wowzers.

Agree 100%. Not sure why Flat has to tell the board all about what a great guy he is either. I've done some good deeds over the years, but I don't trot them out to contrast against someone who I don't even know or know of. I'll make one speculation - if CML did something "good", you would probably never know about it because he probably isn't the kind of person to talk about stuff like that. Neither am I.

That said, 95, your other recent post kind of contradicts this one. Please don't start mimicking our fellow poster that takes any or all sides of any discussion just to have something to argue about......

 

[Coug95man2]

Agree 100%. Not sure why Flat has to tell the board all about what a great guy he is either. I've done some good deeds over the years, but I don't trot them out to contrast against someone who I don't even know or know of. I'll make one speculation - if CML did something "good", you would probably never know about it because he probably isn't the kind of person to talk about stuff like that. Neither am I.

That said, 95, your other recent post kind of contradicts this one. Please don't start mimicking our fellow poster that takes any or all sides of any discussion just to have something to argue about......

Please elaborate... what other post contradicts this?

 

[froropmkr72]

There's a slight nuance in psychology that Flat may be unaware of. Just because a person may be unaware of how their odd behavior is perceived at the time that their doing it....doesn't make them necessarily "self-involved". I'm kind of a goody two shoes myself because I'm always aware of perceptions...and that may make me more self-involved that the person who doesn't care or is less aware.

 

[CougEd]

As you put it, "let me play devils advocate", with you. You say, "any community service is done by the wife and family members."

1. Please tell me what CML's family has done in the community? I'm truthfully intrigued. You state they have. Just wondering.
2. Please tell me what things CML has NOT done in Pullman? How about the Key's? He travels quite a bit to the islands (Indonesian), has he done anything in THOSE communities? How about contributions? In the Key's kind of contributions? How about in Lubbock or Norman. He has quite a few ties still there and visits friends there quite often. Thoughts or knowledge? Please share so we can understand your perspective on this.

In short, some coaches that I've met (and I haven't met CML on a personal basis due to specific reasons) are some of the most giving, caring people. Example, I'd heard about Iowa States thing with the children hospital and I knew the coach had personal involvement but his story just prior to their bowl game shows some incredible giving. I've also met some complete aholes too. But I'd love to know any facts you have on this and CML, to enlighten us all. Your broad stroke judgement regarding people you don't even know is... interesting.

Two things. I said "any" and I didn't say they did or didn't. Second, if I did know and it isn't already public I wouldn't tell you or any one on the board. That would mean they clearly want to keep it quiet.

Third, very few coaches have the time to do anything but football. I would bet gets home from the office at 11. Probably unwinds with his wife and a book for about an hour or two. Then is back in the office after walking to work by 9 or 10. It is seven days a week. Then there is recruiting. Just common sense in terms of time commitment says it is virtually impossible. Does he make financial contributions?

My experience with various coaches is that the wives are behind any charity and good deeds simply because of time. So to determine whether someone is a good guy or bad guy based on something that takes time which they don't have seems to be a little shortsighted.

 

[Coug95man2]

Two things. I said "any" and I didn't say they did or didn't. Second, if I did know and it isn't already public I wouldn't tell you or any one on the board. That would mean they clearly want to keep it quiet.

Third, very few coaches have the time to do anything but football. I would bet gets home from the office at 11. Probably unwinds with his wife and a book for about an hour or two. Then is back in the office after walking to work by 9 or 10. It is seven days a week. Then there is recruiting. Just common sense in terms of time commitment says it is virtually impossible. Does he make financial contributions?

My experience with various coaches is that the wives are behind any charity and good deeds simply because of time. So to determine whether someone is a good guy or bad guy based on something that takes time which they don't have seems to be a little shortsighted.

Ed, I actually like what you say here. Clarified your previous post.

 

[CougEd]

It all depends on what you think a person needs to do to be a good person. On the money front, I volunteered to take a pay cut in 2010 so that my co-workers could get a pay raise during the great recession. When I saw a handicapped person laying on the side of the road because the tire on their wheelchair blew out, I stopped, and with the help of another good samaritan, put his wheelchair in my truck and took him to his apartment while hundreds of other people drove by without stopping. When I saw a guy struggling to get his jack under his vehicle, I used my lower profile jack to get it high enough to get him going. It's not an every day occurrence, but I think it's important to help others when you see them in need and I've done so hundreds of times over the past 20+ years. I've owned a house in Las Vegas for 4 years that I let my family members live in even though I'm losing money every month because it's the right thing to do. I used to go kayaking and bike riding with my elderly neighbor before he became too weak to do it safely. My wife and I bought a car for her mom to make sure that she didn't have to worry about it. I definitely haven't assaulted women or been arrested. I donate my time and money to causes that I think are worthy.

I don't go to my employer and threaten to change jobs to leverage a pay raise even though I undoubtedly could have. I may make the occasional inflammatory statement but there is no way, shape or form where I can be compared when it comes to Leach's strangeness and self-involved nature. Leach is not a "bad man" from what I've seen.....but he hasn't done anything that suggests that he is trying to make any other difference in the world than making our football team better. The most charitable thing that you can say about Leach is that he wants his student athletes to graduate and that they shouldn't hit women, steal or use drugs. It's better than nothing of course.

EDIT: One interesting thing about Leach is that even though he is arrogant and self-involved, he doesn't obsess about what anyone else thinks about him. He really doesn't care what you or I think about him. He seeks no validation from others and what we consider "good" is different from how normal people think.....just like everything else about the man. He's just a different cat.

Flat...let me ask you the following. You have a bad week or two bad weeks do they fire you at your job? To compare "normal" jobs with that of a coach is a function on futility. Do you have a signed three year contract that really means zip? Do you have a buy back clause in your contract? How about getting questioned about the way you performed a task even though the task had the desired results?

Coaches at every school get questioned on a 3rd and one call, or they didn't win by enough or the right way.

It is common place where they go out and determine market value. And he didn't test the market until his two pillars were removed.

 

[CougPatrol]

This issue here is not whether or not Mike Leach (or any coach) is a "good person," but rather that they are good employees. We don't know any of the coaches personally, and having brief conversations with them at alumni functions doesn't give any of us insight into their character; good or bad. Up until the Jerry Sandusky scandal went public, fans would have been crucified if they suggested that Joe Paterno was a bad person. That's an extreme example, but the point is relevant. We know nothing about these coaches. Let's acknowledge that.

The only judgments any of us can fairly make about Leach would be directly related to measurable data points. W/L record, team conditioning and preparedness to play, off field conduct of players (and coaches), player graduation rates and classroom performance, overall management of the football program, recruiting as it relates to roster management and on field performance, and a basic acceptable level of congeniality with alumni and the media.

I've said before that Leach strikes me as a turd of a person, but that's really not a fair comment. I'm basing that opinion off of brief snapshots of certain behaviors (like his over the top, guarded stance on discussing injuries or player suspensions, his blowing on his coffee during press conferences, and surly attitude with the media (and alumni on occasion) when questioned about anything related to play calling or offensive philosophy.

Apart from that, in 6 years, he hasn't said or done anything that I have found offensive as an alumnus, as a parent, or as a football fan. We all pick apart his X's and O's, but of all the WSU coaches I've followed through the years beginning with Walden, I think Leach manages our program better than any of them. By management, I mean overall attention to detail, and an understanding for everyone involved with WSU football, that THIS is the way we're going to do things. You show up for meetings, or you get suspended. The training table is structured LIKE THIS. Practices are organized down to the minute. If specific rules are broken, you WILL be kicked off the team. We DO NOT discuss injuries with the media. You ARE expected to maintain above average academic progress and performance.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Please elaborate... what other post contradicts this?

The "let me play Devil's advocate " post. But no matter.

 

[Coug95man2]

The "let me play Devil's advocate " post. But no matter.

Ah. I can see what you are saying. I was asking legitimate questions but can see how it was misconstrued.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Wow......lots of anger and angst on a Tuesday. FWIW, I specifically said that I don't think that Leach is a bad person. I also don't think that he has ever exhibited behavior that suggests that people would say that he was a "good person" when describing him. In my examples above, I can't picture Leach helping someone in need because frankly, I don't think he'd notice. He may not willfully bypass someone in need, but I can't picture him helping. The man is in his own world and is usually oblivious to what's going on with other people. As a coach, it's probably a great trait.

He is TSO for all of the traits that make him who he is and those traits are the things that drive administrators crazy over time and outside of the part of not stealing or hitting women, he's mainly focused on what gets him wins and very little else publicly. When he was hired here, Texas Tech fans said that we should be prepared for baffling decisions and the occasional bad loss. It's no surprise to anyone that his negotiating strategy this year was to flirt with Tennessee because that's what he did all the time at Tech. Now, TT was notoriously cheap with him and probably caused their own problems, but we collectively hope that the current contract at WSU snuffs that out for a while. If not, it really does come down to Leach being a greedy a-hole. FWIW, that just makes him a typical coach these days.

 

[Coug95man2]

Wow......lots of anger and angst on a Tuesday. FWIW, I specifically said that I don't think that Leach is a bad person. I also don't think that he has ever exhibited behavior that suggests that people would say that he was a "good person" when describing him. In my examples above, I can't picture Leach helping someone in need because frankly, I don't think he'd notice. He may not willfully bypass someone in need, but I can't picture him helping. The man is in his own world and is usually oblivious to what's going on with other people. As a coach, it's probably a great trait.

Gotta disagree. First off, that would be a horrible trait for a coach. Coaches have to notice how the players are playing, if they are acting odd (trying to hide an injury), etc. etc. If something personal is happening in a players life, is it worthy of talking to them, pulling them from a game because their life is just too distracting, etc. etc. And to think CML wouldn't notice something seems, again, very presumptuous. To me, it's a matter of whether or not he'd care or if he has moral objections to any given "thing" or whatever. But he strikes me as someone that is VERY perceptive. Again, I think you are attributing negative emotions to someone you know nothing about.

 

[Loyal Coug]

Wow......lots of anger and angst on a Tuesday. FWIW, I specifically said that I don't think that Leach is a bad person. I also don't think that he has ever exhibited behavior that suggests that people would say that he was a "good person" when describing him. In my examples above, I can't picture Leach helping someone in need because frankly, I don't think he'd notice. He may not willfully bypass someone in need, but I can't picture him helping. The man is in his own world and is usually oblivious to what's going on with other people. As a coach, it's probably a great trait.

He is TSO for all of the traits that make him who he is and those traits are the things that drive administrators crazy over time and outside of the part of not stealing or hitting women, he's mainly focused on what gets him wins and very little else publicly. When he was hired here, Texas Tech fans said that we should be prepared for baffling decisions and the occasional bad loss. It's no surprise to anyone that his negotiating strategy this year was to flirt with Tennessee because that's what he did all the time at Tech. Now, TT was notoriously cheap with him and probably caused their own problems, but we collectively hope that the current contract at WSU snuffs that out for a while. If not, it really does come down to Leach being a greedy a-hole. FWIW, that just makes him a typical coach these days.

About time for this thread to end, so I'll get one last word in.

Flat, you don't think CML "has ever exhibited behavior that suggests that people would say that he was a "good person" when describing him". Bet his wife and kids have a different opinion on that. Perhaps your sentence above should have ended right after you said "I also don't think".

And while maybe you did not say CML was a "bad" person, you made it clear that he is not a "good" person in your mind. Potato, Patato.

Flat Said:
“While we all agree that Leach is a better than average coach, Leach is definitely not someone that I would call a "good guy". He is narcissistic, arrogant, probably insane in some fashion……. He was manipulative at Tech…… He is now doing the same kind of thing here….. Anyone who spends five minutes watching Leach should realize that Leach isn't a nice guy.

It all depends on what you think a person needs to do to be a good person…. Leach is not a "bad man" from what I've seen.....but he hasn't done anything that suggests that he is trying to make any other difference in the world than making our football team better.

 

[YakiCoug]

From the people I care to get attention from the answer would be yes

Oh, so Chris Ball is in town?

 

[PINGDUDE4]

This issue here is not whether or not Mike Leach (or any coach) is a "good person," but rather that they are good employees. We don't know any of the coaches personally, and having brief conversations with them at alumni functions doesn't give any of us insight into their character; good or bad. Up until the Jerry Sandusky scandal went public, fans would have been crucified if they suggested that Joe Paterno was a bad person. That's an extreme example, but the point is relevant. We know nothing about these coaches. Let's acknowledge that.

The only judgments any of us can fairly make about Leach would be directly related to measurable data points. W/L record, team conditioning and preparedness to play, off field conduct of players (and coaches), player graduation rates and classroom performance, overall management of the football program, recruiting as it relates to roster management and on field performance, and a basic acceptable level of congeniality with alumni and the media.

I've said before that Leach strikes me as a turd of a person, but that's really not a fair comment. I'm basing that opinion off of brief snapshots of certain behaviors (like his over the top, guarded stance on discussing injuries or player suspensions, his blowing on his coffee during press conferences, and surly attitude with the media (and alumni on occasion) when questioned about anything related to play calling or offensive philosophy.

Apart from that, in 6 years, he hasn't said or done anything that I have found offensive as an alumnus, as a parent, or as a football fan. We all pick apart his X's and O's, but of all the WSU coaches I've followed through the years beginning with Walden, I think Leach manages our program better than any of them. By management, I mean overall attention to detail, and an understanding for everyone involved with WSU football, that THIS is the way we're going to do things. You show up for meetings, or you get suspended. The training table is structured LIKE THIS. Practices are organized down to the minute. If specific rules are broken, you WILL be kicked off the team. We DO NOT discuss injuries with the media. You ARE expected to maintain above average academic progress and performance.

That actually is a fairly accurate post. I do not know Leach personally but know people that have interacted with in various roles player , coach, bigger booster.

You backed off the "turd" comment so your other comments are accurate .

War stories are all over the place, but none of them would indicate some bad man type. He is a stickler for detail and some people are not very detail oriented so that is always going cause natural tennision.

The only comment that I might share to this psychoanalysis discussion is the booster said they clearly saw a change in some change in Leach after Bobby Knight showed up at Tech and they were around each other for awhile . Leach was still relatively young at the time and the thought was Knight may have influenced Leach in more ways than some in Admin, would have liked. Not sure of the accuracy of this , but that was at least this guy's opinion.

 

[CougEd]

Oh, so Chris Ball is in town?

I thought I have been clear. I said I got plenty of attention yesterday from friends and family. As I told you "Morally Bankerupt" I have never met Chris Ball nor have I ever spoken to him.

BTW nice to see you got another post deleted. I did catch the part where I lost my...what did you say...privilege? Ummm I thought I was just someone posting on a board. Are there perks and "bennies" from nameless people who I do not know? Is there some sort of award system that gets me a free parking space in front of my computer?

But let me let you in on my "Grand-View" plan for the new year. I am not going anywhere. You have inspired me. And guess what, you have made it literally impossible for Scott to ban me or anyone. You consistently break rival rules. And you can talk about my dead mother, you can attempt to do the crap you do. But I will never run around like you did the night you were banned. What was the word Mike Damoane used in Fast Times at Ridgemont High to describe Rat?

So the future iz now and Yaki I will be here for the foreseeable future. You have Alias Joe and Jack to thank for that.

 

[YakiCoug]

I thought I have been clear. I said I got plenty of attention yesterday from friends and family. As I told you "Morally Bankerupt" I have never met Chris Ball nor have I ever spoken to him.

BTW nice to see you got another post deleted. I did catch the part where I lost my...what did you say...privilege? Ummm I thought I was just someone posting on a board. Are there perks and "bennies" from nameless people who I do not know? Is there some sort of award system that gets me a free parking space in front of my computer?

But let me let you in on a "Grand-View" of my plan for the new year. I am not going anywhere. You have inspired me. And guess what, you have made it literally impossible for Scott to ban me or anyone. You consistently break rival rules. And you can talk about my dead mother, you can attempt to do the crap you do. But I will never run around like you did the night you were banned. What was the word Mike Damoane used in Fast Times at Ridgemont High to describe Rat?

So the future iz now and Yaki I will be here for the foreseeable future. You have Alias Joe and Jack to thank for that.

Nah, you're only here when the Cougs lose. What's with "Grand-View," btw? Missing wildly in your desperate stabs in the dark, erictile D?

 

[CougEd]

Nah, you're only here when the Cougs lose. What's with "Grand-View," btw? Missing wildly in your desperate stabs in the dark, erictile D?

No stabs...there are enough people who know. Must be pretty paranoid you did something to have to have several fake names. Good grief.

Been here win or lose. Oh that is right, 2013 when I didn't post- dad's wife was going through chemo...then died. That outta make your day. Then in 2016 sis went through chemo? Something else that will get you and fuzzy inside. So there are times when posting isn't all that important. But I will be around. BTW I think next year might be a bit of a struggle with no DT's. And I will still be here.

 

[Tx64]

That actually is a fairly accurate post. I do not know Leach personally but know people that have interacted with in various roles player , coach, bigger booster.

You backed off the "turd" comment so your other comments are accurate .

War stories are all over the place, but none of them would indicate some bad man type. He is a stickler for detail and some people are not very detail oriented so that is always going cause natural tennision.

The only comment that I might share to this psychoanalysis discussion is the booster said they clearly saw a change in some change in Leach after Bobby Knight showed up at Tech and they were around each other for awhile . Leach was still relatively young at the time and the thought was Knight may have influenced Leach in more ways than some in Admin, would have liked. Not sure of the accuracy of this , but that was at least this guy's opinion.

The Bobby Knight situation at TT was a lot more complicated than you mentioned. AD was ex-basketball coach and football was not being taken care of. Administration went after Leach, after they had a former Clemson (I think) coach line up. He was going to take TT to the next level. It did not work out so well. I do not think Leach was affected by Knight in the way you suggested. Leach was only trying to take care of his neglected program. I think Leach will be at WSU as long he feels his program is taken care of. Of course if someone came after him with a ridiculous offer all bets are off. I only took a job once for the money and regretted it. I felt is I was treated fairly based on the resources of my employer I was fine. I think most people are.

How many people really want to start a program all over again, if they do not have to. If they are willing to start over their is usually an underlying reason.

I think the focus should be on finishing out this promising recruiting class. As well as getting a couple great coaches that can coach secondary, plan and call defenses, and above all else be exceptional recruiters.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

The Bobby Knight situation at TT was a lot more complicated than you mentioned. AD was ex-basketball coach and football was not being taken care of. Administration went after Leach, after they had a former Clemson (I think) coach line up. He was going to take TT to the next level. It did not work out so well. I do not think Leach was affected by Knight in the way you suggested. Leach was only trying to take care of his neglected program. I think Leach will be at WSU as long he feels his program is taken care of. Of course if someone came after him with a ridiculous offer all bets are off. I only took a job once for the money and regretted it. I felt is I was treated fairly based on the resources of my employer I was fine. I think most people are.

How many people really want to start a program all over again, if they do not have to. If they are willing to start over their is usually an underlying reason.

I think the focus should be on finishing out this promising recruiting class. As well as getting a couple great coaches that can coach secondary, plan and call defenses, and above all else be exceptional recruiters.

I qualified the heck out of what I had heard from the Tech booster about Knight/Leach, that was his opinion and he had regular lunches with Leach and actually liked him.

Personally found the Knight stuff sort of interesting as he clearly had a bad relationship with College admin. both at IU and at Tech. If you recall at Tech Knight publically cussed out a University Chancellor ( not the same guy that fired Leach) in public at a restaurant . Not the best example for young coaches like Leach. Heard from more than one person the fact Knight was not reprimanded for that incident, would probably not have helped Tech's case if the Leach matter had gone to trial. More than anything they were arguing Leach was fired because he was insubordinate , which might be hard case to prove when you let your basketball coach cuss out your chancellor at a public salad bar.

 

[Tx64]

I qualified the heck out of what I had heard from the Tech booster about Knight/Leach, that was his opinion and he had regular lunches with Leach and actually liked him.

Personally found the Knight stuff sort of interesting as he clearly had a bad relationship with College admin. both at IU and at Tech. If you recall at Tech Knight publically cussed out a University Chancellor ( not the same guy that fired Leach) in public at a restaurant . Not the best example for young coaches like Leach. Heard from more than one person the fact Knight was not reprimanded for that incident, would probably not have helped Tech's case if the Leach matter had gone to trial. More than anything they were arguing Leach was fired because he was insubordinate , which might be hard case to prove when you let your basketball coach cuss out your chancellor at a public salad bar.

That part was true. The insubordination they had against Leach was he refused to apologize to the James family. He was not going to apologize for something he did not do. The son was lying, as came out later.