Rolovich article on ESPN

[Flatlandcoug]

Now I know this will be tough for you because you revel in being intellectually dishonest, but ask yourself WHY people would be looking at this through a partisan/ blue vs red lens? I mean, there are other demographics that are much more telling that would get you further towards higher vax rates, like cultural differences in the hispanic (the largest discrepancy between vax rates and case rate) and black communities. Or how about age? There is a significant lag bewteen Boomers/ Gen X and the younger generations. But the number one headline is "hur de durr, Merica lovers r dum and don't like sience".

I know the answer to my question, and if you're honest so do you, but I doubt you'll have the integrity to admit the truth.

FWIW, if I make a pro-vaccine comment on Facebook page for a Kansas media outlet, it is inevitable that someone says, “typical liberal”. That happens…..every……single……time.

Politics has become so interwoven into our lives as a team sport that it is absolutely wrecking our country. One of my friends (registered Republican for 40 years) posted on Facebook last night that she was told that she should rescind her registration as a Republican because she congratulated a Democrat on winning their primary.....for a fuggin' City Council spot that isn't supposed to be based on political parties at all.

When you say that it's the liberals making it about politics, it just proves that you are inside a bubble that you can't see out of. As a RINO in Kansas (a badge I wear with pride), I see the GOP losing it's mind as it tries to make everything about politics in a desperate attempt to appear relevant.

 

[dgibbons]

How would I know what?

Not claiming that partisanship is sole reason for vaccine hesitancy but is a significant one. Multiple surveys:

The Red/Blue Divide in COVID-19 Vaccination Rates

This post examines a growing COVID-19 vaccine gap in Red and Blue America, with the share of the population that have been fully vaccinated in counties that voted for President Biden in 2020 increa…

www.kff.org

The partisan divide in vaccinations is starker than you realize

The effort to reach the unvaccinated has become the latest political fault line in the Covid response.

www.politico.com

You didn’t answer the question about media influence. And you didn’t answer the question about fealty to Trump and the vaccination lag amongst blacks.

Another question for you- why obfuscate?

 

[dgibbons]

On here, is it because the same people blathering the same right wing talking points and conspiracy theories are the same ones spewing antiivaccine, vaccine denialist talking points, and these are obviously intertwined in the same posts. So clearly the partisan part if it is driving much of the conversation here and elsewhere. Your questions are clearly intended to obfuscate. The only thing I’ve been advocating for is the efficacy of the vaccine and need to get getting more people vaccinated regardless of the various causes for low rates in various areas. The only thing bringing up the partisan reason for opposition is the partisan focus of the objections raised. Your posts on the subject show your concerns are not primarily any of the things raised here.

And you have already repeatedly shown your lack of intellectual honesty and ability to think critically. Obvious example is when you blindly jump to conclusions from one wild statistic about teacher vaccination rates being 40% (when actual number is double that) because a poster heard that somewhere. Does that lead to any self reflection on your lack of skepticism about your own narratives and the ease in which you’ll believe anything?

Have you checked yourself for brain worms?

 

[dgibbons]

yes

If you’re actually serious.

House Republicans blame COVID-19 on lab leak in new report

Biden in May gave the US intelligence community 90 days to conclude an investigation on COVID-19's origins. That report has not yet come out.

www.google.com

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

You didn’t answer the question about media influence. And you didn’t answer the question about fealty to Trump and the vaccination lag amongst blacks.

Another question for you- why obfuscate?

You didn’t ask clear questions to know what you were referring to. Your question: “How would know?” That’s it.

Amd I did answer the question about vaccination lags among black people. Since you need help, if There are other reasons for lower Vaccination rates, it doesn’t change the clear evidence for the partisanship being a substantial one.. The partisan objections correlate to MAGA. Doesnt mean there are not also other reasons.

But You are only trying to distract. Requiring vaccines would apply the same. The only point in bringing it up was to show that it doesn’t have to be a partisan issue. Clearly it is in this case (even if it doesn’t explain all the reasons why some people are not getting vaccinated). But historically antivax crap has Not been correlated with left/right politics.

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

If you’re actually serious.

House Republicans blame COVID-19 on lab leak in new report

Biden in May gave the US intelligence community 90 days to conclude an investigation on COVID-19's origins. That report has not yet come out.

www.google.com

And that is your proof? You’re making same mistake others made in prematurely ruling out a lab leak.

 

[dgibbons]

And that is your proof? You’re making same mistake others made in prematurely ruling out a lab leak.

Since you're cognitively impaired, I'm copying and pasting the post I was replying to below. What mistake I am making? longtime wanted proof. The article recites proof supporting the lab leak. You don't have to believe, but there is proof to support a lab leak.

On the other hand, no patient zero has been identified. No bat population with Covid has been identified. No intermediate host has been identified.

CougInSpain said:
Would I also have to provide proof of the absurd claim that Covid originated and was leaked from the Wuhan Lab? Lol wake up

yes

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

... What mistake I am making? longtime wanted proof. The article recites proof supporting the lab leak. You don't have to believe, but there is proof to support a lab leak. ...

Your production of a partisan report doesn’t prove the lab leak theory. It is not proof. It is one theory insufficient to be proof at this point.

The mistake you are making is conflating a report from a partisan body as proof. The claim has not been proven at all.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Checkmate! I claim checkmate too. See how easy it is. Taihtsat!

You're avoiding the question- if your position is so strong, why do you need make believe?

The burden is on you. I asked first. You refuse to answer. If you answer then you can ask. Then I would answer. I'm not afraid of my position, unlike you. Because if you answer, either it shows you to be an ignorant baffoon or cognitively dissonant. Taihtsat

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Soooo... The same guy who basically said it was impossible for the Covid virus to be man made and not have been genetically altered in a lab is the same guy to be trusted when he says "We did not fund gain of function research at the Wuhan Labs"? You smokin' that Fentanyl China ships to the US via our open southern border?

Never said that. Strawman alert.

 

[dgibbons]

Your production of a partisan report doesn’t prove the lab leak theory. It is not proof. It is one theory insufficient to be proof at this point.

The mistake you are making is conflating a report from a partisan body as proof. The claim has not been proven at all.

Do you understand that proof is recited in the report, whether the poof is located in a partisan report or not? I'm not conflating anything. You appear to be conflating "proof" with something being definitively "proven." Who said that it was? Have you checked for brain worms?

As previously stated, on the other hand no patient zero has been identified. No bat population with Covid has been identified. No intermediate host has been identified.

 

[dgibbons]

The burden is on you. I asked first. You refuse to answer. If you answer then you can ask. Then I would answer. I'm not afraid of my position, unlike you. Because if you answer, either it shows you to be an ignorant baffoon or cognitively dissonant. Taihtsat

Why do you need make believe to prove your point? I asked that question first, so the burden is on you! Checkmate!

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Since you're cognitively impaired, I'm copying and pasting the post I was replying to below. What mistake I am making? longtime wanted proof. The article recites proof supporting the lab leak. You don't have to believe, but there is proof to support a lab leak.

On the other hand, no patient zero has been identified. No bat population with Covid has been identified. No intermediate host has been identified.



yes

"But there is proof to support lab leak"

There is EVIDENCE...not PROOF. Just what kind of counselor are you? Taihtsat

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Why do you need make believe to prove your point? I asked that question first, so the burden is on you! Checkmate!

Not quite, Poindexter. I asked which of the two between full vaccination or full exposure to covid would create the least amount of harm. Your reply...none. Answer that first.

 

[dgibbons]

"But there is proof to support lab leak"

There is EVIDENCE...not PROOF. Just what kind of counselor are you? Taihtsat

One that can read and understand the English language. You may want to try. Taihtsat

 

[dgibbons]

Not quite, Poindexter. I asked which of the two between full vaccination or full exposure to covid would create the least amount of harm. Your reply...none. Answer that first.

Your question and my response is below. Don't lie. Your mother will be disappointed.

KRUSTYtheCOUG said:
Let's make this simpler for you and cut right to the chase: in a perfect scenerio where we could either expose the entire population to the virus or vaccinate the entire population, which do you believe would lead to the least harm and suffering?

First, you're talking to yourself. Second, it doesn't matter because neither are plausible. That's the real-world point you're either too naive or too arrogant to understand.

 

[CougInSpain]

On here, is it because the same people blathering the same right wing talking points and conspiracy theories are the same ones spewing antiivaccine, vaccine denialist talking points, and these are obviously intertwined in the same posts. So clearly the partisan part if it is driving much of the conversation here and elsewhere. Your questions are clearly intended to obfuscate. The only thing I’ve been advocating for is the efficacy of the vaccine and need to get getting more people vaccinated regardless of the various causes for low rates in various areas. The only thing bringing up the partisan reason for opposition is the partisan focus of the objections raised. Your posts on the subject show your concerns are not primarily any of the things raised here.

And you have already repeatedly shown your lack of intellectual honesty and ability to think critically. Obvious example is when you blindly jump to conclusions from one wild statistic about teacher vaccination rates being 40% (when actual number is double that) because a poster heard that somewhere. Does that lead to any self reflection on your lack of skepticism about your own narratives and the ease in which you’ll believe anything?

Talking points? In all your hysteria over the vaccine and the spread of the delta variant, I asked you to provide an accepted peer review study that shows the delta variant is less transmittable by someone who has been vaccinated versus someone who has natural immunity due to prior infection. Why won't you discuss the obvious benefits of natural immunity? Do you truly believe being vaccinated is better than having natural immunities? If so, could you provide another accepted peer review study that shows this? You can't because you're mouth breathing liberal elitist who only spews "Leftist talking points" then accuse others of lacking "intellectual honesty". Why do you leftists always deflect like that when challenged on your position? No one on here, that I am aware of, is an anti-vaxxer. People like me, would like to have a choice in what we inject into our bodies regardless of how you feel about this virus. Covid hasn't killed 600k+ people. What happened to the flu? How many deaths related to heart disease occurred in the same time frame? How about from car accidents? Cancer? ESRD? COPD? Are you even curious? Do you just ingest the wholesale garbage corporate media feeds you? You need to wake up.

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

One that can read and understand the English language. You may want to try. Taihtsat

can you? proof does not mean same thing as evidence.
The report does not meet any burden of proof except for all the right wing sheep accepting every thing uncritically and pointing to little nuggets of truth in whatever disinformation you parrot.

 

[CougInSpain]

FWIW, if I make a pro-vaccine comment on Facebook page for a Kansas media outlet, it is inevitable that someone says, “typical liberal”. That happens…..every……single……time.

Politics has become so interwoven into our lives as a team sport that it is absolutely wrecking our country. One of my friends (registered Republican for 40 years) posted on Facebook last night that she was told that she should rescind her registration as a Republican because she congratulated a Democrat on winning their primary.....for a fuggin' City Council spot that isn't supposed to be based on political parties at all.

When you say that it's the liberals making it about politics, it just proves that you are inside a bubble that you can't see out of. As a RINO in Kansas (a badge I wear with pride), I see the GOP losing it's mind as it tries to make everything about politics in a desperate attempt to appear relevant.

This whole thing has been politicized from the get go. Trump shuts down travel to and from China... Liberals immediately start calling it xenophobic and then you see azzhat Pelosi in Chinatown, inviting everyone in the greater SF area to come hang out there. Now, you have leftists targeting the CDC to impose policies on their behalf as we have seen with the extension of the eviction moratorium. What's the endgame here Flat? We just stay locked up and masked for the rest of our lives over a virus that kills less than 1% of the people who contract it? WTF

 

[CougInSpain]

can you? proof does not mean same thing as evidence.
The report does not meet any burden of proof except for all the right wing sheep accepting every thing uncritically and pointing to little nuggets of truth in whatever disinformation you parrot.

Did Hunter Biden tell you to say that? Or was it Chris Cuomo?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Your question and my response is below. Don't lie. Your mother will be disappointed.





First, you're talking to yourself. Second, it doesn't matter because neither are plausible. That's the real-world point you're either too naive or too arrogant to understand.

It does matter, because we're not trying to cure the world of covid here, we're trying to determine if you really think herd immunity through exposure is better than through vaccination. That matters here - in THIS discussion. Quit avoiding the question.

Edited to add: you also failed to identify which version of the virus your herd protection belief is based on. Another question you failed to tackle.

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

Did Hunter Biden tell you to say that? Or was it Chris Cuomo?

I know you aren’t capable of intelligent thought, but this is the best you can come up with trying to be clever?

 

[dgibbons]

can you? proof does not mean same thing as evidence.
The report does not meet any burden of proof except for all the right wing sheep accepting every thing uncritically and pointing to little nuggets of truth in whatever disinformation you parrot.

OK. You're imposing burdens of proof now as if that has some kind of meaning. As previously stated, you don't have to believe it. But there is proof that supports the lab leak theory.

What proof is there of natural origin? Wuhan is about 1,000 miles away from the Yunnan province, btw.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

FWIW, if I make a pro-vaccine comment on Facebook page for a Kansas media outlet, it is inevitable that someone says, “typical liberal”. That happens…..every……single……time.

Politics has become so interwoven into our lives as a team sport that it is absolutely wrecking our country. One of my friends (registered Republican for 40 years) posted on Facebook last night that she was told that she should rescind her registration as a Republican because she congratulated a Democrat on winning their primary.....for a fuggin' City Council spot that isn't supposed to be based on political parties at all.

When you say that it's the liberals making it about politics, it just proves that you are inside a bubble that you can't see out of. As a RINO in Kansas (a badge I wear with pride), I see the GOP losing it's mind as it tries to make everything about politics in a desperate attempt to appear relevant.

Summary:
"You're right, but I have to do the Flat thing and point out where you're wrong too, because for some reason I take issue with anyone criticizing the left/ media without also admitting that the right is a steaming pile of shit as well. Despite the fact that BCG has stated numerous times he's no MAGA, doesn't watch any news let alone Fox News, I make wild assumptions because I assume those who say anything anti-left are super-duper-MAGA-tards."

You constantly talk about your friends and neighbors - that's really great and all, but last I checked you're "friends" and neighbors aren't controlling the messaging, so your constant blathering about your co-workers and fb friends is irrelevant (speaking of bubbles... pot meet kettle.)

True or false: nationwide the messaging from the WH and CDC is "get vaxxed" and now "mask up... again".
True or false: the WH is blue
True or false: while you'll occasionally hear messaging about Black or Hispanics lagging, the main refrain is "red states" or "R's" aren't vaxxing. Oscar even posted two studies that people took the effort to conduct to show as much.

To my last point: even if you take that last point on its face and accept/ believe that "having conservative beilefs is the #1 driver of not getting vaccinated", those with conservative beliefs have proven that slandering and demonizing them in the media isn't going to sway them; its going to bolster them. IF the real purpose was to drive people to the clinics, maybe... just MAYBE it would be better to take a different tactic than making it a R v D issue ; you know, turning the vax decision into a moral pedestal upon which they can stand and cast judgement down upon the unclean masses.

I dunno, I guess I'm just a MAGA-fcktard living in my bubble because I'm sick of seeing divisive bullshit day in and day out on EVERY media outlet.

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

OK. You're imposing burdens of proof now as if that has some kind of meaning. As previously stated, you don't have to believe it. But there is proof that supports the lab leak theory.

What proof is there of natural origin? Wuhan is about 1,000 miles away from the Yunnan province, btw.

Still doesn't know the difference between evidence and proof. Smh. Taihtsat

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

OK. You're imposing burdens of proof now as if that has some kind of meaning. As previously stated, you don't have to believe it. But there is proof that supports the lab leak theory.

What proof is there of natural origin? Wuhan is about 1,000 miles away from the Yunnan province, btw.

I’m showing the usage of the word proof implies more than your use to mean same as evidence. There is a reason you don’t hear of a “burden of evidence”. Proof is more. You similarly question using the verb “prove” though it Is related.

Most scientists apparently still think natural origin is more likely. Im not sure it matters for anything I’m interested in debating here, so I’m not going to try to prove either position. I will question when something is claimed to be proof of something when it is not.

 

[dgibbons]

It does matter, because we're not trying to cure the world of covid here, we're trying to determine if you really think herd immunity through exposure is better than through vaccination. That matters here - in THIS discussion. Quit avoiding the question.

Edited to add: you also failed to identify which version of the virus your herd protection belief is based on. Another question you failed to tackle.

That's not true either. You're making up hypotheticals. Real world- both natural immunity and vaccination occur, it's never either or. Vaccines are not developed until there is a disease. It's your choice to live in the real world or make believe.

I'll leave you with this. Remember the Imperial College study? The one that projected with no mitigation efforts two million people would die, with a big spike of cases that flatlined over relatively short period of time. But if mitigation efforts were implemented and the curve flattened, the outbreak would last significantly longer but not overwhelm hospitals. Show your work. Do the math, cite the studies, whatever.

And I said you could chose the variant. Your mother is disappointed.

 

[dgibbons]

Still doesn't know the difference between evidence and proof. Smh. Taihtsat

Feel free to check the synonyms.

Definition of EVIDENCE

an outward sign : indication; something that furnishes proof : testimony; specifically : something legally submitted to a tribunal to ascertain the truth of a matter… See the full definition

www.merriam-webster.com

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

I asked you to provide an accepted peer review study that shows the delta variant is less transmittable by someone who has been vaccinated versus someone who has natural immunity due to prior infection.

Here is what you actually asked: “Care to link a viable, peer reviewed study that shows data where the Delta variant can infect someone just as easily amongst the vaccinated than does with the unvaccinated?”

doesn’t seem you asked what you intended. But neither is related to any claim I was making.

Most of your posts are too incoherent to warrant a serious response. Your own posts demonstrate your DUMB AF status well enough.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

On here, is it because the same people blathering the same right wing talking points and conspiracy theories are the same ones spewing antiivaccine, vaccine denialist talking points, and these are obviously intertwined in the same posts. So clearly the partisan part if it is driving much of the conversation here and elsewhere. Your questions are clearly intended to obfuscate. The only thing I’ve been advocating for is the efficacy of the vaccine and need to get getting more people vaccinated regardless of the various causes for low rates in various areas. The only thing bringing up the partisan reason for opposition is the partisan focus of the objections raised. Your posts on the subject show your concerns are not primarily any of the things raised here.

And you have already repeatedly shown your lack of intellectual honesty and ability to think critically. Obvious example is when you blindly jump to conclusions from one wild statistic about teacher vaccination rates being 40% (when actual number is double that) because a poster heard that somewhere. Does that lead to any self reflection on your lack of skepticism about your own narratives and the ease in which you’ll believe anything?

You've been on this board for about a minute, so you have no idea who I am or what I believe. You assume that (like most of the assholes on here) that anyone who doesn't walk lockstep with your beliefs must be a MAGA-tard because... well, you just can't be bothered with nuance or the idea that there are shades of gray in your black and white world.

Lets take your link - YOUR information that YOU provide and do some critical analysis for a second. You look at that and immediately use it as a hit piece for "look, SEE!! MAGAtards don't like science! And since YOU (BCG) are a MAGAtard too, you are 'THEY', the deplorables... those this world would be better off without *wink wink, nudge nudge*"

I look at it and see that as of April, the vax rates were almost even, but by July there was significant lag in counties that voted red. A couple of things here; statistically, we don't quite know what this means, ie there could be counties that were won 51 to 49. There is an assumption that every person in those counties is red and didn't get the shot. What is also noteworthy is that across the board, vax rates are still woefully lower than what was needed or desired among all groups. Also, if you take a similar set data from state vax rates the numbers tend to smooth out, even in states that voted red. They tend to be 5-10 point higher across the board, excluding the conservative strongholds across the south, Idaho, and Wyoming. https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

It should also be noted that two large demographics who's numbers are lagging are Hispanics and Blacks - historically blue voters. This information is part of the database that is being compile from demographic info gathered when you get your shot - no one did a special study to try to break out blue vs red, which is what the link you posted did, which again begs the question (that you refuse to answer): what motivation does one have to do a study like that? This particular study concludes with a paragraph about messaging, which is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, but you use this study of proof of your moral superiority over the MAGAtards.

post script - I regretfully took another poster at their word instead of do the research myself, which I usually do. There was some confirmation bias built into that decision due to my frustration with my local school district (who I am CERTAIN is not vaxxed 90%). That was my mistake, and trust me I will not make it again.

 

[dgibbons]

You've been on this board for about a minute, so you have no idea who I am or what I believe. You assume that (like most of the assholes on here) that anyone who doesn't walk lockstep with your beliefs must be a MAGA-tard because... well, you just can't be bothered with nuance or the idea that there are shades of gray in your black and white world.

Lets take your link - YOUR information that YOU provide and do some critical analysis for a second. You look at that and immediately use it as a hit piece for "look, SEE!! MAGAtards don't like science! And since YOU (BCG) are a MAGAtard too, you are 'THEY', the deplorables... those this world would be better off without *wink wink, nudge nudge*"

I look at it and see that as of April, the vax rates were almost even, but by July there was significant lag in counties that voted red. A couple of things here; statistically, we don't quite know what this means, ie there could be counties that were won 51 to 49. There is an assumption that every person in those counties is red and didn't get the shot. What is also noteworthy is that across the board, vax rates are still woefully lower than what was needed or desired among all groups. Also, if you take a similar set data from state vax rates the numbers tend to smooth out, even in states that voted red. They tend to be 5-10 point higher across the board, excluding the conservative strongholds across the south, Idaho, and Wyoming. https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

It should also be noted that two large demographics who's numbers are lagging are Hispanics and Blacks - historically blue voters. This information is part of the database that is being compile from demographic info gathered when you get your shot - no one did a special study to try to break out blue vs red, which is what the link you posted did, which again begs the question (that you refuse to answer): what motivation does one have to do a study like that? This particular study concludes with a paragraph about messaging, which is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, but you use this study of proof of your moral superiority over the MAGAtards.

post script - I regretfully took another poster at their word instead of do the research myself, which I usually do. There was some confirmation bias built into that decision due to my frustration with my local school district (who I am CERTAIN is not vaxxed 90%). That was my mistake, and trust me I will not make it again.

Age should also be pointed out. Some have quickly forgotten that older people were given preference, and the vaccination rate for those over 65 is about 80 percent. Availability for teenagers is pretty recent. Not surprising that the under 18 rate is below 12 percent. This is all shown in your link.

Those MAGA 13 year olds are obviously menaces to society.

Edit to add- I'd be interested in seeing if there is any correlation between people that actually voted (even registered voters) and vaccination rates.

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Age should also be pointed out. Some have quickly forgotten that older people were given preference, and the vaccination rate for those over 65 is about 80 percent. Availability for teenagers is pretty recent. Not surprising that the under 18 rate is below 12 percent. This is all shown in your link.

Those MAGA 13 year olds are obviously menaces to society.

I think I mentioned that in another post, or at least I meant to. The under 65 demo is woefully lagging, with under 40 getting progressively worse. Interestingly, the numbers skew towards the conservative in the Silent generation and more heavily toward the liberal the younger you go. I mean, I find it interesting but I'm sure that others who have a specific point to make find that data irrelevant.

 

[CougInSpain]

Here is what you actually asked: “Care to link a viable, peer reviewed study that shows data where the Delta variant can infect someone just as easily amongst the vaccinated than does with the unvaccinated?”

doesn’t seem you asked what you intended. But neither is related to any claim I was making.

Most of your posts are too incoherent to warrant a serious response. Your own posts demonstrate your DUMB AF status well enough.

Hahaha.... Could I have worded my initial request better? Yeah probably. I'll dumb it down even further so that your small leftist brain can comprehend. Vaccine > Natural Immunity? If so, WHY/HOW?

 

[CougInSpain]

I know you aren’t capable of intelligent thought, but this is the best you can come up with trying to be clever?

Is that all you got? You're as pathetic as your Demi-God Fauci.

 

[CougEd]

This whole thing has been politicized from the get go. Trump shuts down travel to and from China... Liberals immediately start calling it xenophobic and then you see azzhat Pelosi in Chinatown, inviting everyone in the greater SF area to come hang out there. Now, you have leftists targeting the CDC to impose policies on their behalf as we have seen with the extension of the eviction moratorium. What's the endgame here Flat? We just stay locked up and masked for the rest of our lives over a virus that kills less than 1% of the people who contract it? WTF

Spain … you continue to talk about the death rate . Let’s pretend for a moment those are throw always . We don’t care about them . You want to live your life . Most people are motivated by fear. Baseball parks have been opened up for what over a month. The giants who were in a playoff run I think in 12/14 and 16 averaged close to 40k. The giants are in first place , had one sell out this year and there attendance is way off, not a top down approach.

Also the issue isn’t death. It is the hospitals . Again, let’s agree to not care whether it kills 65 or 24 year olds … or babies. Those are acceptable losses. The issue is if I was in Louisiana on Tuesday and my daughter who was scheduled for a knee operation would have been denied in at least one hospital because they are over run . They turned back 300 cases in one week for surgeries that could be put off.

That means the bottom up approach is hindering surgeons who are in the ER from making money, just like in April of 2020. And it will hurt our economy in Pullman and elsewhere, whether a top down approach comes or a bottom up, or both.

And yes the horse is out of the barn . We missed our small window to keep the "original" covid 19 and prevent the virus to mutate to the delta, which clearly is busting through our vaccine. My daughter’s high school teammate came over Wednesday to see how she was doing post surgery . We get a call this am although she was vaccinated and she has covid . They think she got it at watershed, where numerous Husky players were in attendance.

I know kids who played hoops this past season and didn’t transmit covid, they had to wear masks . This summer aau season not masked but vaxed spread covid around. I wonder what was the difference.

People will pull back and it will be the small businesses that will suffer and so will the hospitals.

 

[CougEd]

Is that all you got? You're as pathetic as your Demi-God Fauci.

Just out of curiosity , what has fauci done in his last 42 years of service have you disagreed with prior to covid . What did he have wrong at the time .

It sure seems like on the surface he has predicted each wave, and he certainly warned people like me the issue may not be covid of 2020, but the variants .

So he is a Chinese spy that worker at the cdc during Reagan, Bush, Clinton , Bush , Obama and Trump? How did so many people have such person who was not trustworthy. How much bonus money do you believe Fauci makes from telling us what the information at hand he has giving us his best analysis ? What are his motivations ?

I know Trumps, Desantis and Biden’s … what is Faucis ?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

This whole thing has been politicized from the get go. Trump shuts down travel to and from China... Liberals immediately start calling it xenophobic and then you see azzhat Pelosi in Chinatown, inviting everyone in the greater SF area to come hang out there. Now, you have leftists targeting the CDC to impose policies on their behalf as we have seen with the extension of the eviction moratorium. What's the endgame here Flat? We just stay locked up and masked for the rest of our lives over a virus that kills less than 1% of the people who contract it? WTF

I don't like the moving goalposts that have happened for the past 12 months and I get the frustration. As far as I'm concerned, we need to just let nature run it's course. We have flattened the curve enough.

It's a bit tricky to hang your hat on the 1% thing though. If 300 million Americans ended up with the virus and it killed around 1%, that's around 3 million dead people......that's nothing to blow off.

My hope is that the vaccine really does it's job and it knocks the mortality rate to around 0.1 or 0.2%. That would still suck, but it's a lot better than last year when it was around 1.7% when hospitals were being overwhelmed and the quality of care suffered. Just ready for this damned thing to get done and I wished that more people would get the vaccine because I do believe that it will send sooner if we all do so.

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

You've been on this board for about a minute, so you have no idea who I am or what I believe. You assume that (like most of the assholes on here) that anyone who doesn't walk lockstep with your beliefs must be a MAGA-tard because... well, you just can't be bothered with nuance or the idea that there are shades of gray in your black and white world.

Lets take your link - YOUR information that YOU provide and do some critical analysis for a second. You look at that and immediately use it as a hit piece for "look, SEE!! MAGAtards don't like science! And since YOU (BCG) are a MAGAtard too, you are 'THEY', the deplorables... those this world would be better off without *wink wink, nudge nudge*"

I look at it and see that as of April, the vax rates were almost even, but by July there was significant lag in counties that voted red. A couple of things here; statistically, we don't quite know what this means, ie there could be counties that were won 51 to 49. There is an assumption that every person in those counties is red and didn't get the shot. What is also noteworthy is that across the board, vax rates are still woefully lower than what was needed or desired among all groups. Also, if you take a similar set data from state vax rates the numbers tend to smooth out, even in states that voted red. They tend to be 5-10 point higher across the board, excluding the conservative strongholds across the south, Idaho, and Wyoming. https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-tracker

It should also be noted that two large demographics who's numbers are lagging are Hispanics and Blacks - historically blue voters. This information is part of the database that is being compile from demographic info gathered when you get your shot - no one did a special study to try to break out blue vs red, which is what the link you posted did, which again begs the question (that you refuse to answer): what motivation does one have to do a study like that? This particular study concludes with a paragraph about messaging, which is EXACTLY what I've been talking about, but you use this study of proof of your moral superiority over the MAGAtards.

post script - I regretfully took another poster at their word instead of do the research myself, which I usually do. There was some confirmation bias built into that decision due to my frustration with my local school district (who I am CERTAIN is not vaxxed 90%). That was my mistake, and trust me I will not make it again.

I’ve actually been on this board since before it moved to Rivals. I just dont frequent it as much and basically stopped posting until I stupidly let myself get sucked in to this.

And you have no clue. I certainly do not view all posters here who disagree the same. For example, even if I think DGib is sometimes disingenuous in the way he responds to others, and I view him as ignorant on some parts of this issue (as I’m sure he thinks the same of me) he makes coherent points, and that is regardless of the degree to which he does or does not identify with MAGA. I’m sure I disagree with him the same way as others, though I have more respect for his points than I do for some of the others, especially DUMB AF in Spain. It might be possible I am mistaken oand confusing you with him or others. And while spain clearly parrots conspiracy theories and other absurd unsupported claims that appear to be prevalent In MAGA circles, I’ve only pointed out the lack of cognitive ability being demonstated.

And you’ll notice I generally did not refer to MAGA or politics stuff in my posts. Even in responding to the more incoherent posts, I pointed out that, but not the stuff you are attributing to me. I only weighed in on why the partisanship stuff is brought on after being specifically asked about, other than one post pointing out the partisan nature of the most of the voiced opposition to the vaccine.

If you want to ignore the obvious partisan nature of much of the opposition to the vaccine, go ahead. That’s not really the debate I’m interested in anyway. My advocacy for the vaccines including appropriate mandates applies regardless of reason for the hesitancy, denialism, and opposition.

And I didn’t provide links to show moral superiority. I provided them as a couple examples, in response to a request. There are many more, and you are mostly pointing to lower vaccination rates among different demographics to rebut the point that there is a partisan factor to much of the opposition, especially the most vocal opposition. But the fact other reasons exist for lower vaccination rates does not mean there isn’t still a partisan reason as well. You are the one exhibiting black and white thinking here (as elsewhere).

If you actually looked at the study I linked, it would actually showed you it measured public attitudes within a lot of demographic classifications, not limited to political affiliation. What is the purpose? To understand vaccine hesitancy, and if there is a policy to encourage vaccines, it may seem relevant in understanding why, and where there are opportunities to increase vaccination rates.

 

[OscarTheGrouch]

Hahaha.... Could I have worded my initial request better? Yeah probably. I'll dumb it down even further so that your small leftist brain can comprehend. Vaccine > Natural Immunity?

Still not understanding English? Your question was asking close to the opposite of what you were apparently intending.

I did not make any claim about immunity from vaccine vs natural immunity, one way or another. I’m not sure there is data that answers that question or what the point is that you are trying to make. I’m skeptical that you even understand the point you want to make.

 

[dgibbons]

Just out of curiosity , what has fauci done in his last 42 years of service have you disagreed with prior to covid . What did he have wrong at the time .

It sure seems like on the surface he has predicted each wave, and he certainly warned people like me the issue may not be covid of 2020, but the variants .

So he is a Chinese spy that worker at the cdc during Reagan, Bush, Clinton , Bush , Obama and Trump? How did so many people have such person who was not trustworthy. How much bonus money do you believe Fauci makes from telling us what the information at hand he has giving us his best analysis ? What are his motivations ?

I know Trumps, Desantis and Biden’s … what is Faucis ?

Please remember you rely on your dental hygienist for travel rules.