Are you going tonight? I’ll be in the light navy t. Black shorts and slides. Coug lid. I’ll bring my notebook so we can compare reviews
Shockandsizzlewazzu
- Thread starter Lollapalousa
- Start date
Some early drops
QBs competing. Playing catch
Kickers doing their job
We recruit great kids. There will be some young guys we don’t hear about be hard to keep off the field.
Great night for the O but they need to get a week better now
QBs competing. Playing catch
Kickers doing their job
We recruit great kids. There will be some young guys we don’t hear about be hard to keep off the field.
Great night for the O but they need to get a week better now
I'm back home in Vegas. Boys have first day at school on Monday. Sorry. Would love to here your thoughts though. I bet the offense enjoyed being back on a fast turf instead of that jungle grass.
No Sh!t. I’m in the 702 3-4months a year.
All the QBs looked good. It’s red hot competition. I thought Bledsoe might chuck his crutches and take a few snaps.
All the QBs looked good. It’s red hot competition. I thought Bledsoe might chuck his crutches and take a few snaps.
I read there were a lot of drops; 12.5% of the passes. That obviously can’t continue, and I don’t suspect it will. Leach really singled out Fisher for coming on this camp. Said one day he’s going to be explosive and consistent and hard for anyone to beat. I can’t recall him making many bolder statements about a young skill player.
Kickers were 7-7. As a fan with high in-game anxiety, that’s really good to hear.
Kickers were 7-7. As a fan with high in-game anxiety, that’s really good to hear.
I thought that was a GREAT first scrimmage. #1 and 2 offenses were more crisp and smooth for this stage of fall camp than I expected. I thought all the QBs looked good, comfortable, and competent out there -- would be very interesting to be a fly on the wall as the coaches dissect film to hear what they saw, liked, and disliked on the play of each. From a layman's perspective, I came away thinking Tinsley probably had the fewest mistakes (plays he'd like to have back) and that Gubrud is the QB most likely to use his RBs to check into a run play (Borghi's had a run up the center that was a thing of beauty). Gubrud's ability to scramble was visible last night as he extended the play and evaded a couple sacks (and was called down on another 1 or 2 by virtue of someone getting a hand on him that in real time would not have been a sack). His energy and enthusiasm is very visible out there. Gordon had what I thought was probably the prettiest pass of the night, and I think it came when he was piloting the 2's against the 1's. The # of drops were noticeable, but part of that can be attributed to seeing balls from 6 different QBs and the differences in ball speed. Gubrud found the endzone the most, but also had the lone pick on the night on a batted ball, and 1 ball that a DB made a great play on that would have been a pick six had he been able to hang onto it.
Those touchy feely sacks? I think a couple WSU defenders got a hand on Gubrud in 2016 when he scored on a 26-yard run.
Yeah, if it ends up to be him lining up behind center, he's going to give some defenses fits with his feet.
Lawson from the Spokesman Review gave the edge to Gubrud.
And based on his descriptions of the action, what happened, the stats, etc, I would have to agree.
Stats:
Gage Gubrud: 8 of 11, 100 yards, 2 TD's.
Should have been a 3rd TD, but was dropped by a WSU WR, that had it hit him in the hands, when after Gage rolled, ran out to escape rush, threw a nice pass on run that hit the WR in the hands, in the Endzone, that was dropped, despite Tyrese Ross doing a damn good job covering the WR.
The INT came from: 1. Gage admitting he should have recognized the rush, and checked to a quicker option like a quicker pass, throw away, run, etc. 2. Missed blocking, not handling Rush. 3. Gage not getting rid of the ball faster. 4. The rusher hitting his arm, causing the ball to float, get intercepted. So the INT was pretty much mostly NOT GAGE'S FAULT.
Tinsley:
9 of 15 for 136 yards, 2 TD's, no INT
Gordon: 9-15, 92 yards, 1 TD, no INT
Lawson said Gage was clearly better the 1st series, but just barely by skin of teeth, not as good as Tinsley, Gordon, in the 2nd series.
Even tho its NECK AND NECK, with Gage just barely by skin of teeth, having the slight edge, and even tho Leach says they are Neck and Neck equal, etc.
In reality this favors Gage. If this trend continues, and Gage, Tinsley, Gordon end up equal, Leach would probably choose Gage.
And thats because a lot of the players like the job that Gage is doing so far, based on some of their comments, by some of the players.
Also if one combines Gage, Tinsley, Gordon, being equal, combined with Gage having 4,5 years of experience, Gage having passed for 5k yards in a single season, 10k yards over his career, him being in running for National FCS player of year nomination, his being a Walter Payton Award Finalist, and Gage would be the Starter.
Basically its Gage Gubrud's Starting Job to lose.
If Tinsley, Gordon are going to start over Gage Gubrud, they have to BEAT OUT Gage Gubrud.
Being Neck and Neck, equal to Gage is NOT enough to start over Gage Gubrud.
If it is, then why bring in a QB as good, accomplished, etc, as Gage Gubrud.
The reason why you bring in a Gage Gubrud, is that you intend to start them if they are not beat out.
So because of that, even tho Leach hasnt said so, Leach is going to start Gage, unless Tinsley, Gordon beat out Gage, which so far hasnt happened yet.
And so far Gage has the slight edge, at least in my book, and in the book of Lawson of the Spokesman Review.
And based on his descriptions of the action, what happened, the stats, etc, I would have to agree.
Stats:
Gage Gubrud: 8 of 11, 100 yards, 2 TD's.
Should have been a 3rd TD, but was dropped by a WSU WR, that had it hit him in the hands, when after Gage rolled, ran out to escape rush, threw a nice pass on run that hit the WR in the hands, in the Endzone, that was dropped, despite Tyrese Ross doing a damn good job covering the WR.
The INT came from: 1. Gage admitting he should have recognized the rush, and checked to a quicker option like a quicker pass, throw away, run, etc. 2. Missed blocking, not handling Rush. 3. Gage not getting rid of the ball faster. 4. The rusher hitting his arm, causing the ball to float, get intercepted. So the INT was pretty much mostly NOT GAGE'S FAULT.
Tinsley:
9 of 15 for 136 yards, 2 TD's, no INT
Gordon: 9-15, 92 yards, 1 TD, no INT
Lawson said Gage was clearly better the 1st series, but just barely by skin of teeth, not as good as Tinsley, Gordon, in the 2nd series.
Even tho its NECK AND NECK, with Gage just barely by skin of teeth, having the slight edge, and even tho Leach says they are Neck and Neck equal, etc.
In reality this favors Gage. If this trend continues, and Gage, Tinsley, Gordon end up equal, Leach would probably choose Gage.
And thats because a lot of the players like the job that Gage is doing so far, based on some of their comments, by some of the players.
Also if one combines Gage, Tinsley, Gordon, being equal, combined with Gage having 4,5 years of experience, Gage having passed for 5k yards in a single season, 10k yards over his career, him being in running for National FCS player of year nomination, his being a Walter Payton Award Finalist, and Gage would be the Starter.
Basically its Gage Gubrud's Starting Job to lose.
If Tinsley, Gordon are going to start over Gage Gubrud, they have to BEAT OUT Gage Gubrud.
Being Neck and Neck, equal to Gage is NOT enough to start over Gage Gubrud.
If it is, then why bring in a QB as good, accomplished, etc, as Gage Gubrud.
The reason why you bring in a Gage Gubrud, is that you intend to start them if they are not beat out.
So because of that, even tho Leach hasnt said so, Leach is going to start Gage, unless Tinsley, Gordon beat out Gage, which so far hasnt happened yet.
And so far Gage has the slight edge, at least in my book, and in the book of Lawson of the Spokesman Review.
So far Gubrud seems more prone to interceptions, but I think that is just him being new to the offense, maybe trying to force things. At Eastern he averaged about one per game.
When you put up 5k yards, about 33 TD's in a season, while throwing it a ton, like Gage did, your going to average about 1 INT per game, unless your like GARDNER MINSHEW who averaged about 1 INT every about 1.5 games for about 7,8 INT's during a 13 game season, instead of Gage's about 14 INT's, during about a 13,14,15, game season.
And altho Gage might probably be slightly more INT prone for the reasons you named, Gage's INT, during the 1st Friday Scrimmage of Fall Camp, IS NOT, WAS NOT GAGE'S FAULT, WASNT A BAD PASSING DECISION, WASNT A BAD PASS, BECAUSE THE RUSHER HIT GAGE'S ARM, CAUSING THE BALL TO FLOAT, GETTING INTERCEPTED.
That's pretty much the same kind of fluke thing, where one of the WSU QB's, had a pass tipped at line of scrimmage, against the FUSKIES, and instead of it accidentally getting intercepted, the QB caught it, got it back, and either passed it for a TD or ran it in for a TD.
In the Utah game last year, Minshew threw three consecutive passes that should have been picked. Only one was, of course, but his legendary status sometimes messes with memory and is bound to elicit shrieks of, "but he's no Minshew!"
I'm hoping Gage is the guy. Mostly because I think his experience and up side with his speed can make this a really special year. That said, I think a lot of us are falling into the trap of thinking of Gage as the guy that torched us for 500 yards passing and 100 rushing back in '16. If you look at some of his other game highlights, his accuracy is an issue and he forces a lot of passes. A little like Halladay. He struggled against us last year. Hoping that the surrounding cast he now has can bring out the results he had in 2016. Still think he's our best option but worried about turnovers and off target throws.
Good Connor or Bad Connor. Because Good Connor with wheels and a stockier build would be a tremendous weapon, even with some interceptions
It'll be interesting to see how GG calls a game. He's had a ton of reps in a different system. His take on calling run plays could be an interesting tweak to the offense this year. Assuming he wins the job.
I wouldn't be mad if MB had 15 carries per game and another back had a dozen too.
Forcing the defense to tighten up front only helps the WR's get open.
I wouldn't be mad if MB had 15 carries per game and another back had a dozen too.
Forcing the defense to tighten up front only helps the WR's get open.
Agree, I think that the fact that he's putting up "neck and neck" numbers with Tinsley and Gordon mean it's got to be Gage. He's still climbing the learning curve with the current system and will only get better with more reps. Add in his superior speed and experience and he's our best option.
Mik
If you had seen the scrimmage, you might be a little less confident in your conclusions. What the stats don't tell you (and what Lawson failed to mention in his writeup) is that Gubrud had a pass that had pick six written all over it if the defender had been able to secure it, and the pass that you reference as a likely third TD was placed such that Ross probably had as much chance to intercept it as Patmon had at receiving it. (Watching it live, Ross had great coverage on the receiver and that ball needed to be placed high -- I was actually glad to see the ball bouncing on the ground at the end.) No gripes here at all about the Gubrud pass that turned into an INT -- tipped passes and disrupted throws happen to every QB. Gubrud offers things at QB that neither Tinsley nor Gordon have (significant experience managing a game and reading defenses, as well as his great elusiveness) but I don't think his pass placement is as good and he's playing a lot of catch-up to the other two as far as learning and understanding Leach's offense. I'll be happy as hell if he's named as the starter because he's fun to watch, can energize the offense, and will force defenses to account for a new wrinkle, but he may not be as consistent as one (or both) of the two other options. Historically, Leach places a lot of emphasis on consistency in managing/running his offense, as well as accuracy and timing as a passer, so I'd be very surprised if Gubrud has as much an inside track to the starter role as you think. If Leach had to name a starter today based on current skill set, knowledge, and ability to spread the ball around to all the various weapons, I don't think it would be Gubrud. If however Gubrud shows improvement over the next couple weeks in his areas of weakness as his familiarity with Leach's offense and his receivers and running backs increases, I think he will be named the guy.
The tiebreaker very well could be how gage gubrud feet could open up the running game for Max. If you watched the 33 yard shot out of a cannon run last night the defender on edge stayed home because gubrud might keep it. 74 also had a tremendous second level block.
GG's willingness to check down to running plays during the scrimmage was one of the things that caught my eye. Having to constantly account for a very capable running QB, MB carrying the rock out of the backfield, and 4 receivers at any given time would create a lot of stress for most DCs.
This is an interesting comment. It caused me to think a bit about how I felt about Minshew after the first several games of last year. I remember thinking, alright this guy is pretty good. Glad he’s here. By the end of the year I thought he had joined the ranks of WSU quarterback legends.
Whoever starts (I believe it will be Gubrud) deserves the same opportunity to grow on me. It’s not fair to expect the guy to be “end of year” Minshew out of the shoot.
I’ve been told by MANY of EWU Boosters, if Coug Fans think he’s Gardner 2.0, they are in for a rude awakening.
Think more Connor Halliday who can run.
Think more Connor Halliday who can run.
Put the right skill group on the field and even the screen/mesh game might be enough. If you somehow put Fisher, Bell, Harris, Jackson, and Bazil on the field at the same time, that's 5 guys that can house it on any given play. They've got the wheels. Throw in GG and any D that has to chase that side to side is gonna get gassed and then burned over the top. Then let Borghi run through them in the 4th.
That's still not a bad thing necessarily. More erratic perhaps, but I remember 2014 Cal as much as I remember the Oregon State meltdown. And GG would have a running game and vastly superior pass protection.
So true. Gubrud is best when he's on the run and throwing deep. I'm more focused on his accuracy in the short game. Not only does he need to thread the needle at times, but he also needs to get the ball to guys in such a way that they can run after the catch.
I'm more concerned that no QB has taken command of the team. We need a leader.
I don't have a strong opinion about how Gage will fare at WSU this year, but he definitely needs to learn to value the ball more. If Mik had done a couple minutes research on INT/ATT ratios, he would know that Gubrud's career average of a pick every 36 attempts is not particularly good. Minshew was picked 9 times in over 660 attempts last year and only one QB in the top ten last year was in Gubrud's range last year. Most averaged around 50 passes per INT. As mentioned above, there was some luck involved for Minshew, but nevertheless, we won't win anything close to 11 games if Gubrud doesn't have a great season when it comes to taking care of the football.
I feel pretty good about Gubrud, but only time will tell.
I feel pretty good about Gubrud, but only time will tell.
Having a QB that calls a game like a baseball pitcher helps. As a pitcher, if you're only gonna throw your fastball, you'd better have a good fastball. Everyone knows it's coming. Hit it or don't.
The ability to throw a fastball, curve, change up, slider, knuckle, fork, screwball all keeps hitters guessing.
When WSU has a QB that can mix his play calls where the defense is FORCED to adjust, I think then and only then will you see WSU win the league.
I don't believe it's a balanced 50/50 offense. I believe it's an offense that makes teams line up with 4 lineman. Whatever that number looks like. When the defense has to remove a pass defender and add a run defender that scoreboard is gonna light up like a Christmas tree.
15 picks in 502 attempts at East Carolina......so pretty close to Gubrud's overall percentage.
5 picks in 367 attempts at juco....so closer to his WSU ratio.
Per The Football Database he had 506 passes with 11 interceptions. That’s 46.
Wikipedia shows Gabrud at 1,165 attempts and 32 interceptions. That’s 36.4.
For reference, Falk had 52.7 and Halliday had 32.7.
*Edit: Flats numbers may be more accurate than what I found.
On the ESPN page, I inadvertently read the TD column instead of the INT column. (DOH!). so yeah, SDCoug is correct.
His career at ECU was...
293/506 attempts/comps
57.9% completion
3,487 yards
24 TDs, 11 Ints
127.1 passer rating
This was in 17 games over 2 seasons.
His lone season at WSU was...
468/662 atts/comps
70.7% completion
4,779 yards
38 TDs, 9 Ints
147.6 passer rating
These stats were over 13 games.
GM went from nowhere to somewhere. Coaching and scheme and how you fit within both matter. 4 months at WSU was a life course changing experience. He went from a middling college QB to the NFL inside maybe 18 months.
GG walked onto WSU's practice field with 9,984 yards passing and another 1,042 rushing. Maybe he is the guy, maybe he isn't. But I wanna see what he can do.
One thing that’s pretty clear is the emphasis that Leach put on finding immediate transfer help at the QB position.
We hit the jackpot with GM last season, so it’s statistically logical to assume that GG won’t live up to those numbers. We may not win as many games if the consistency drops, but it’s possible that GG offers some home run intangibles that we haven’t seen with Falk and GM. Maybe a long scramble when the offense is sputtering, or the athletic ability to break off multiple key runs in games where the weather isn’t ideal?
It appears to me that we have enough talent to win 7 games with moderate QB play. Getting above the 8 win mark will require quite a few road wins at Houston, at Utah, at Oregon, at ASU, at Cal, at UW. Falk and GM performed very well on the road, especially late in games. That’s the unknown intangible that nobody can predict with GG or TT. With our schedule this season, it will be difficult to overcome a revolving door at the QB season, due to either performance or injury.
One of the biggest questions I have about the QB position will begin to be answered next Spring. Will either Cruz or Cooper grab the starting job for multiple seasons, or will Leach be forced to mine the transfer portal again?
We hit the jackpot with GM last season, so it’s statistically logical to assume that GG won’t live up to those numbers. We may not win as many games if the consistency drops, but it’s possible that GG offers some home run intangibles that we haven’t seen with Falk and GM. Maybe a long scramble when the offense is sputtering, or the athletic ability to break off multiple key runs in games where the weather isn’t ideal?
It appears to me that we have enough talent to win 7 games with moderate QB play. Getting above the 8 win mark will require quite a few road wins at Houston, at Utah, at Oregon, at ASU, at Cal, at UW. Falk and GM performed very well on the road, especially late in games. That’s the unknown intangible that nobody can predict with GG or TT. With our schedule this season, it will be difficult to overcome a revolving door at the QB season, due to either performance or injury.
One of the biggest questions I have about the QB position will begin to be answered next Spring. Will either Cruz or Cooper grab the starting job for multiple seasons, or will Leach be forced to mine the transfer portal again?
He got benched a few games after he beat us, so the capability to stink it up is there.
We've been really spoiled , might be time to come back to reality with our qb position. We'll see...
Gubrud certainly had his struggles in the post-Cooper Kupp era, just as Luke Falk struggled without Gabe Marks and River Cracraft. With Gubrud and Anthony Gordon, the difference in the Air Raid could be QB mobility. Minshew was no blazer, but he was nimble and often gave his WRs more time to get open. It moved the chains, and that's what tires defenses out.
I don't follow EWU at all. But, I do know the season he beat us that EWU went 12-2, he set the all time FCS passing yards record and also rushed for over 600 yards while completing over 67% of his passes. Are you sure he was benched that season?
Not only losing his receivers, but Beau Baldwin left to Cal as well. The offense changed.
