WSU at u$c

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

Historically Pac 12 road teams have not done well on Friday night games, how soon we forget the Cal game last year, remember the excuses, " it was a Friday game we weren't ready, ". While the Cougs chances against SC look better now than a few weeks ago, beating USC at their place is never easy, doing it on a Friday night makes it that much more difficult. Yes 3-0 is great, but we haven't played anyone good yet. If the Cougs win Helton should get fired, because he has already lost the team for the year. On paper there is no way SC should lose to a WSU team that is rebuilding.

The Friday night road game argument is the best I've heard so far as to why we should be concerned, and its a valid point.

Outside of that, I stand by us winning. If Vegas factors in the Friday night factor AS WELL AS the road factor and are only giving SC 4.5 pts, that bodes really well for us vis a vis who the better performing team is at this moment.

 

[CougInSpain]

Historically Pac 12 road teams have not done well on Friday night games, how soon we forget the Cal game last year, remember the excuses, " it was a Friday game we weren't ready, ". While the Cougs chances against SC look better now than a few weeks ago, beating USC at their place is never easy, doing it on a Friday night makes it that much more difficult. Yes 3-0 is great, but we haven't played anyone good yet. If the Cougs win Helton should get fired, because he has already lost the team for the year. On paper there is no way SC should lose to a WSU team that is rebuilding.

Rebuilding? It looks a helluva lot like a reloading year to me the way we are playing.

 

[PINGDUDE4]

The Friday night road game argument is the best I've heard so far as to why we should be concerned, and its a valid point.

Outside of that, I stand by us winning. If Vegas factors in the Friday night factor AS WELL AS the road factor and are only giving SC 4.5 pts, that bodes really well for us vis a vis who the better performing team is at this moment.

That line puzzled the heck out of me.

Really though it might be 10 or so. Over the years personally think people tend to swing between over-rating and under-rating USC fairly dramatically. People are overly down on them right now IMO.

Still think that it will take the best game WSU has played this year to stay within this line, much less win the game.

 

[rufffrider]

The Friday night road game argument is the best I've heard so far as to why we should be concerned, and its a valid point.

On average, I'd typically agree with this. But if I look objectively at the two teams RIGHT NOW, I'd have to say the short week is more of a deterrent to SC than us. They appear to have more problems to fix right now than we do, and are running with a freshman QB that is still trying to get his arms around everything. Given the poise and leadership that Minshew has exhibited, I don't see the short week affecting the Cougs as much as the Trojans.

 

[CougPatrol]

Even though I favor USC in the game, I definitely like WSU's chances against young, greenhorn QBs. If we can avoid giving up big plays and hang onto the ball, USC will have all they can do to beat us.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

On average, I'd typically agree with this. But if I look objectively at the two teams RIGHT NOW, I'd have to say the short week is more of a deterrent to SC than us. They appear to have more problems to fix right now than we do, and are running with a freshman QB that is still trying to get his arms around everything. Given the poise and leadership that Minshew has exhibited, I don't see the short week affecting the Cougs as much as the Trojans.

If we hadn't sucked so bad at Cal.....I wouldn't be worried about Friday night at all. But we were really bad against a mediocre team. In early November last year, there was an article stating that road teams were 0-4 in conference games on Friday night. I like our chances and I think we get by USC this Friday, but I don't like our chances to put money on it.

 

[7ICoug]

Maybe they can get Pete again, he's likely going to be available.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Yes, those are my fears as well. Unfortunately, I have USC winning this game going away.

 

[95coug]

The glass is too big

 

[fingerdisco]

The glass is too big

Said no Coug Fan, ever.

 

[etowncoug]

If we hadn't sucked so bad at Cal.....I wouldn't be worried about Friday night at all. But we were really bad against a mediocre team. In early November last year, there was an article stating that road teams were 0-4 in conference games on Friday night. I like our chances and I think we get by USC this Friday, but I don't like our chances to put money on it.

It's back to back road games with the second on a Friday night that have been a killer. I like our chances.

 

[old_trojan93]

Lots of interesting views here. Saw this thread over on our 247 board and thought I'd drop in.

There's a lot going on in Trojan land and it's no state secret that many of us are less than happy with both our head coach and the administrators who hired him and keep him around. Helton was chosen, IMHO, out of a hat and Pat Haden conducted no real search for a coach. This is also how we ended up with Kiff and Sark. The flawed search that gave us Helton, a man with no prior head coaching experience, is why, despite two 10 win seasons in a row, many of us are still suspicious about him in the long term and want him gone. USC is not an 'earn while you learn' place. I imagine there are those of us who secretly want USC to lose to Wazzu since a loss would crank up the heat under his seat. Swann might be out of his depth but little is known about his views since he says little and does even less. Right now, USC boards have been torn apart by some fans who want him gone and a few "sunshine pumpers" who say give him time - despite the fact that he's already had 2.5 years and only now has discovered that practicing harder is the way to success (SMH)

As for the game, I have no idea who will win. Like another poster on here, I too have heard that Helton has lost the team. But we also heard that in 2016 before Darnold saved his job by taking us to the Rose Bowl and winning it. Only, there's no one to save him now unless JT Daniels can make some magic.

 

[Cougston]

Given the trajectory of the Seahawks I think USC will probably have ol' Pete available to coach them next year.

 

[dgibbons]

Lots of interesting views here. Saw this thread over on our 247 board and thought I'd drop in.

There's a lot going on in Trojan land and it's no state secret that many of us are less than happy with both our head coach and the administrators who hired him and keep him around. Helton was chosen, IMHO, out of a hat and Pat Haden conducted no real search for a coach. This is also how we ended up with Kiff and Sark. The flawed search that gave us Helton, a man with no prior head coaching experience, is why, despite two 10 win seasons in a row, many of us are still suspicious about him in the long term and want him gone. USC is not an 'earn while you learn' place. I imagine there are those of us who secretly want USC to lose to Wazzu since a loss would crank up the heat under his seat. Swann might be out of his depth but little is known about his views since he says little and does even less. Right now, USC boards have been torn apart by some fans who want him gone and a few "sunshine pumpers" who say give him time - despite the fact that he's already had 2.5 years and only now has discovered that practicing harder is the way to success (SMH)

As for the game, I have no idea who will win. Like another poster on here, I too have heard that Helton has lost the team. But we also heard that in 2016 before Darnold saved his job by taking us to the Rose Bowl and winning it. Only, there's no one to save him now unless JT Daniels can make some magic.

Helton seemed to get the job because of the backlash over not hiring Ed Orgeron. He had strong support among the current players at the time.

The irony is Carrol, Kiffin and Sark may all be available this year!

 

[old_trojan93]

Helton seemed to get the job because of the backlash over not hiring Ed Orgeron. He had strong support among the current players at the time.

The irony is Carrol, Kiffin and Sark may all be available this year!

Helton had strong player support because he was lax when it came to discipline. When you let kids do as they please, they will always 'like' you.

I wouldn't want any of those names you mentioned. USC's incestuous nature of hiring from within or bringing back someone from the past has to stop. Especially with Pete. It's hard to catch lightning in a bottle twice and I wouldn't want anything that ruined his legacy like a second stint that turned out to be an epic failure. Plenty of coaches out there with no prior 'SC ties. New blood, new ideas.

 

[random soul]

SC hires the wrong guy. Three times in a row now in fact. If they were smart, which they are not, they’d go get a legit ball coach and let their brand recognition carry him the rest of the way. Mark Dantonio would win games there. Hell, the Wyoming coach would win games there. For a school that can recruit itself and land hugh end prospects, they are doing an amazing amount of less with an incredible amount of more.

In the mean time, here’s to SC screwing it up a 4th time when hiring a coach!!!

Bring back Paul Hackett!

 

[random soul]

You forgot good ol' Pete.

Remember, Carroll was like their 5th choice or something. SC seems to have a pretty good history of chasing the wrong candidates since the early 80s

 

[GrayOnGray]

Helton had strong player support because he was lax when it came to discipline. When you let kids do as they please, they will always 'like' you.

I wouldn't want any of those names you mentioned. USC's incestuous nature of hiring from within or bringing back someone from the past has to stop. Especially with Pete. It's hard to catch lightning in a bottle twice and I wouldn't want anything that ruined his legacy like a second stint that turned out to be an epic failure. Plenty of coaches out there with no prior 'SC ties. New blood, new ideas.

I've wondered if the other Pete in Seattle might end up with the SC job. I know he doesn't seem to like changing locations, but I wonder if he might now feel so close to a natty...and yet so far.

 

[roses04]

As I recall USC made a run at Teethy Petey a few years back and he turned them down. I think the bright lights of LA are scary to Teethy Petey.

 

[GrayOnGray]

As I recall USC made a run at Teethy Petey a few years back and he turned them down. I think the bright lights of LA are scary to Teethy Petey.

That was then. Wondering if the bright crystal might have changed that.

 

[old_trojan93]

He says Helton has already lost the team and their only chance is if the players revolt and decide to play for themselves.

Yeah, about that...

 

[Cougarmatt90]

SC doesn't scare these guys at all. I think our team's cohesiveness, chemistry and attitude are head and shoulders better than SC's. Cougs know they are facing an average, at best, Pac-12 team. The days of awe are over, this is a new generation of college football players. If the Cougs strike quickly and don't let up it could be a blowout. And though the media will portray it as an upset, it will be anything but.

 

[Coug90]

I bet U$C fans sure wish they had held on to Ed Orgeron as HC. No way would he have lost that team. Players would be willing to die for him. Now look what he's doing at LSU.

That was truly stupid. Orgeron always was a really good coach. They deserve the crap they are lying in right now.

 

[froropmkr72]

He also picked EWU to beat the Cougs at home....so it's good luck he's pessimistic again....until we actually lose.

 

[How_did_this_happen?]

Bring back Paul Hackett!

...or Ted Tollner!

 

[CougPatrol]

He also picked EWU to beat the Cougs at home....so it's good luck he's pessimistic again....until we actually lose.

No, I posted the score of the 2016 game with EWU.

 

[froropmkr72]

No, I posted the score of the 2016 game with EWU.

Are we supposed to read your mind or just assume you're predicting a repeat.

 

[CougPatrol]

Are we supposed to read your mind or just assume you're predicting a repeat.

You're not supposed to think twice about anything that's posted on here.

 

[old_trojan93]

That was truly stupid. Orgeron always was a really good coach. They deserve the crap they are lying in right now.

From your lips to Pat Haden's wax filled ears.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

That was truly stupid. Orgeron always was a really good coach. They deserve the crap they are lying in right now.

I've always liked Orgeron, but there is no evidence that he's a guy who can lead a major program to high level success. He was Wulffian in his performance at Ole Miss, and has been run of the mill at LSU so far. It'll be mid-October before LSU plays another good team (#2 Georgia) so it'll be a while before we'll know if they are legit this year. They do get UGa, Mississippi State and 'Bama in a three week stretch, so we'll know if Coach O has really done something there or not. If they are 6-3 like they've done in the past, it'll mean that he's on track for another 9-4 finish. Not bad....but not what LSU fans expect from their team.

 

[Coug95man2]

I'm cautiously optimistic about this game. I don't think we've lost a step. Do we have some marque Oline? Nope. But they've done a dam good job so far. Dline have a marque player? Not really. Maybe LB Jahad Woods. But again, they've done a dam good job so far.

We can deal with the 4 and 5 star players. Been there, done that. Example: WSU RB gets free and low and behold, a USC CB comes from behind to catch our RB before he gets the TD. Whoopy skip. We'll get in on the next down.

The hard part about this game is, we've yet to play anyone with any true mettle. We could take USC! They are having some serious internal issues and that will create opportunity. But to have USC as our first conference team is a hard one. I do believe it will come down to who comes in prepared the best.

Preparation and execution. We come in with our lunchboxes, chest out, chin down, eyes up. I do believe we have this game. It'll be a battle, no doubt! This is far from a "gimme". They could roll us up in carpet, if we let them. Or we can battle to the last breath and come home to face Utah undefeated.

 

[CougPatrol]

The reality is we haven't played anyone so far this season, so cautiously optimistic is all any of us should be at this point. What would SC's record be if they played Wyoming, SJSU, and Eastern WA?

 

[roses04]

4 weeks ago I had this game as a sure loss, today it’s a toss up. In both cases not sure either teams has found their identity yet. USC has struggled offensively, and defensively, but they have played a tougher schedule. The Cougs at 3-0 haven’t played anyone the caliber of USC yet.


So things in USC’s favor

-Home game, they have a 17 game win streak at the Coliseum

-Pac 12 road teams record on Friday night is terrible

-Their backs are against the wall and they come out on fire

-All time record is like 100-10

-Their OL and DL is bigger stronger and faster than WSU


Things in the Cougs Favor

-Forget the all time record, Leach is 2-1 versus USC

-Experience at QB

-More consistent offense,

-Better coaching staff, sorry SC, but with your talent you shouldn’t have lost year.

-Better team defense, Is our defense as good as last year? We will find out on Friday.



In the end it comes down to the line of scrimmage, stop USC’s run, give Minshew time, and open a few holes for the running backs, and WSU wins. If they don’t they lose, it’s that simple. I think it will be a close game, but I have to believe the USC team has some sense of pride, and they come out on fire to right the ship, plus the home game, and Friday night factor, so I give USC the edge. For the Cougs to win, they have to get up early and cause USC to lose whatever fire and pride they might have.

 

[Coug95man2]

4 weeks ago I had this game as a sure loss, today it’s a toss up. In both cases not sure either teams has found their identity yet. USC has struggled offensively, and defensively, but they have played a tougher schedule. The Cougs at 3-0 haven’t played anyone the caliber of USC yet.


So things in USC’s favor

-Home game, they have a 17 game win streak at the Coliseum

-Pac 12 road teams record on Friday night is terrible

-Their backs are against the wall and they come out on fire

-All time record is like 100-10

-Their OL and DL is bigger stronger and faster than WSU


Things in the Cougs Favor

-Forget the all time record, Leach is 2-1 versus USC

-Experience at QB

-More consistent offense,

-Better coaching staff, sorry SC, but with your talent you shouldn’t have lost year.

-Better team defense, Is our defense as good as last year? We will find out on Friday.



In the end it comes down to the line of scrimmage, stop USC’s run, give Minshew time, and open a few holes for the running backs, and WSU wins. If they don’t they lose, it’s that simple. I think it will be a close game, but I have to believe the USC team has some sense of pride, and they come out on fire to right the ship, plus the home game, and Friday night factor, so I give USC the edge. For the Cougs to win, they have to get up early and cause USC to lose whatever fire and pride they might have.

Spot on with all of this. Can't disagree with a single word.

Hit them in the mouth early and make them start doubting everything and take away any pride they might have. THAT should be the goal. I want to see DB's looking to the sidelines or to their fellow players with the WTF look... a lot.

 

[CougEd]

The reality is we haven't played anyone so far this season, so cautiously optimistic is all any of us should be at this point. What would SC's record be if they played Wyoming, SJSU, and Eastern WA?

There are some really bad teams in the Pac 12. I thought the Utah qb hated his wrs and tried getting them killed . How can the conference have several first round draft picks plus Falk browning and this year have zip .

Before I thought the Cougs would win between 5 and 6 games . Sumlin took a Heisman hopeful and made him pedestrian . Utah has no qb play and Browning has regressed and looks like his arm-average

USC will try and pound the ball. We had stacked the box against Wyoming and they were able to gash us in the 2nd quarter.

The game will be won up front . Does usc have anyone that looks like Leonard Williams in the middle on the dline as our center has struggled at times .

 

[dgibbons]

There are some really bad teams in the Pac 12. I thought the Utah qb hated his wrs and tried getting them killed . How can the conference have several first round draft picks plus Falk browning and this year have zip .

Before I thought the Cougs would win between 5 and 6 games . Sumlin took a Heisman hopeful and made him pedestrian . Utah has no qb play and Browning has regressed and looks like his arm-average

USC will try and pound the ball. We had stacked the box against Wyoming and they were able to gash us in the 2nd quarter.

The game will be won up front . Does usc have anyone that looks like Leonard Williams in the middle on the dline as our center has struggled at times .

Showing your ignorance again. Herbert is being talked up as a first round pick.

 

[CougEd]

Showing your ignorance again. Herbert is being talked up as a first round pick.

Showing your ignorance again. Herbert is being talked up as a first round pick.

Showing your ignorance again. Herbert is being talked up as a first round pick.

Yikes... my bad, The Pac 12 has the quality that it has in the recent past that we have played against.

Let me be more specific. The QB play is way down. Down at the two big southern Cali schools, Stanford iseems to be the same...slight improvement, ASU getting good play from their QB, as is CU. I am sure OSU will be better as there is only one way to go. The Cal QB while better than last year doesn't seem very Goff like, but maybe they will improve. Hebert is the best of the bunch.

And the general point still remains the same, the Pac 12 is down and WSU is capable of winning all their games.

 

[Coug95man2]

Yikes... my bad, The Pac 12 has the quality that it has in the recent past that we have played against.

Let me be more specific. The QB play is way down. Down at the two big southern Cali schools, Stanford iseems to be the same...slight improvement, ASU getting good play from their QB, as is CU. I am sure OSU will be better as there is only one way to go. The Cal QB while better than last year doesn't seem very Goff like, but maybe they will improve. Hebert is the best of the bunch.

And the general point still remains the same, the Pac 12 is down and WSU is capable of winning all their games.

What... Wut?! Our QB play is down? Compared to?

USC is not down. Herbert will do well.
UCLA is down, no question. RS Sophomore is the most seasoned QB on their roster
Stanford as per your statement is the same, possibly slight improved
ASU is good, per you
UA has Khalil Tate. He's going throw teams for fits the whole season. Down? Nope. Same? OK
Cal as you state is better than last year
Colorado is good, per you
Utah, meh. Jack Tuttle gets in, and they'll be good. He's stuck on the sidelines
Whoregon, by all standards they are good
OSU, meh. We'll see. I'll give you that they aren't doing good but I'd be hard pressed to say they are "down" from last year. They were kinda down last year.
UW, Browning is a great QB. Teams have adjusted how they attack him. Doesn't take away from his play.
WSU. I think we're good.

So out of 12 teams, UCLA, lets go with Utah and OSU. 3 teams are down in the QB position. Is that your definition of "way down"? Clarify if I'm misrepresenting anything above.

 

[CougEd]

What... Wut?! Our QB play is down? Compared to?

USC is not down. Herbert will do well.
UCLA is down, no question. RS Sophomore is the most seasoned QB on their roster
Stanford as per your statement is the same, possibly slight improved
ASU is good, per you
UA has Khalil Tate. He's going throw teams for fits the whole season. Down? Nope. Same? OK
Cal as you state is better than last year
Colorado is good, per you
Utah, meh. Jack Tuttle gets in, and they'll be good. He's stuck on the sidelines
Whoregon, by all standards they are good
OSU, meh. We'll see. I'll give you that they aren't doing good but I'd be hard pressed to say they are "down" from last year. They were kinda down last year.
UW, Browning is a great QB. Teams have adjusted how they attack him. Doesn't take away from his play.
WSU. I think we're good.

So out of 12 teams, UCLA, lets go with Utah and OSU. 3 teams are down in the QB position. Is that your definition of "way down"? Clarify if I'm misrepresenting anything above.

What... Wut?! Our QB play is down? Compared to?

USC is not down. Herbert will do well.
UCLA is down, no question. RS Sophomore is the most seasoned QB on their roster
Stanford as per your statement is the same, possibly slight improved
ASU is good, per you
UA has Khalil Tate. He's going throw teams for fits the whole season. Down? Nope. Same? OK
Cal as you state is better than last year
Colorado is good, per you
Utah, meh. Jack Tuttle gets in, and they'll be good. He's stuck on the sidelines
Whoregon, by all standards they are good
OSU, meh. We'll see. I'll give you that they aren't doing good but I'd be hard pressed to say they are "down" from last year. They were kinda down last year.
UW, Browning is a great QB. Teams have adjusted how they attack him. Doesn't take away from his play.
WSU. I think we're good.

So out of 12 teams, UCLA, lets go with Utah and OSU. 3 teams are down in the QB position. Is that your definition of "way down"? Clarify if I'm misrepresenting anything above.

You think USC is getting good QB play? You think Hill or Browning are as effective as they were last year? Utah? OSU? Hmmm

 

[Coug95man2]

You think USC is getting good QB play? Yu think Hill or Browning are as effective as they were last year? Utah? OSU? Hmmm

Dude. Why do you answer questions with more questions?

So you think USC, UW, Utah, OSU are down in their QB play. Anyone else?