WSU vaccine mandate
- Thread starter 95coug
- Start date
Does it require a license, like an amusement park? If so, the kid at the gate may ask you where your proof of vaccination is. A free state, federal, county or city park could require vaccination, with appropriate law making and enforcement, on health and safety ground. Protected "rights" legally are those provided you by your state and the US constitutions and their penumbra -- guns, search and seizure, speech, due process, the 5th, religion, assembly, press, abortion, discrimination, secondary education, etc. Trying to enjoy yourself ain't one of them. Most private and public establishments can refuse to admit you, if they so choose on health and safety grounds. "No shirt, no shoes, no service" has been upheld, repeatedly. Discrimination is entirely legal, except for improper reasons, and having a baseless fear of modern medicine does not make you a member of a protected class.
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It's supposed to (science!). But having recovered does not give you the magic V-card.
I guess there is genuine debate amongst the experts about whether people who have recovered should get vaccinated. Concern over giving vaccine to people that don't need it, concern the immune response for someone that has recovered could be dangerous, etc.
Gib, it is true that there is not universal agreement on the points you raise. There never is, unfortunately, and probably never will be. The overwhelming majority of those whose primary area of expertise deals with the subject believe (most pretty strongly, from what I can see) that vaccinations are the right step for everyone, whether they had covid or not. I am not a scientist, I am an engineer. My field for the past year-plus has been minimizing aerosol transmission via mechanical means, chiefly the HVAC system. FYI, though you would never know it from most of the media, that is only minimally about air filters. It is far more about air distribution patterns and means of limiting aerosol travel. I've had conversations with engineers in other disciplines who know little but have large opinions. I really got into it with a civil engineer over some of this. Engineers lose their license if they practice in areas in which they have no expertise, but it doesn't stop them from simply spouting personal opinions...technically, that is not practicing. In the same way, one of my immunologist friends explained that he almost wants to throw up when some cardiologist starts spouting off about this subject. I might not have understood his point a year and a half ago, but I get it now. Unfortunately, most of the genuine debate we see is not between people who are experts in the field...but it can be hard to sift through the voices and understand their background.
It would be interesting to see the stats on how many of these vaccine fearing folk that think they’re putting their health at risk are drinkers and smokers
Small sample, but I have some great people that work for the same company. No formal health or science training but are the most outspoken. Drink 3-4 Red Bull’s a day, chew half a can of cope per day, heavy use of cannabis at night, and eat microwave burritos and gas station food for every meal, but are dead set against the vaccine. Good people, they just don’t know what the hell is going on, because they don’t know they don’t know anything. But their decision to not get it is just as valid as mine to get it (not being sarcastic).
Whether they indulge in all that or not, their reasons for not getting it are still just as valid.
Which is how it should be on any number of matters.
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I actually think quite the opposite. Sure there are some uneducated dimwits that fall into this camp, but most of the people I know are highly intelligent individuals who just have to overthink the F out of everything. It’s really not that hard for us middling IQ folks...It’s real, it’s science, it sucks, and the numbers don’t lie. Get vaccinated so we can all move TF on.
Sure there is a risk with getting vaccinated, look at J&J, but that risk is so small compared to most other things we do without a second thought. Not that long ago people lined up en masse to be vaccinated because it was the right thing to do for society. Vaccines were sold as a means to eradicate surges. If we want to eradicate Covid-19, a universal vaccination campaign is required. Otherwise it will linger and mutate, like the flu, picking off the old and the sick for decades to come. Unfortunately, there is a large group of people in this country that can only think of themselves, wanting to ride herd immunity for free, all the while complaining about the potential need to show proof of vaccination when attending public events.
And they wonder why we aren't sympathetic?
If you can't follow this equation -- very low personal risk + great benefit for society = vaccination -- you aren't a clear thinker. If you can't think clearly, what good is a high IQ, you are a practical/common sense idiot.
If you snorted coke off a toilet in a dive bar in the 80’s, Im not interested in your opinion of why you wont take the vaccine.
Ok, I wanted to read, think about the responses, before I responded.
This is a lot more complex, gray issue then some of you realize.
On the 1 extreme, you have people who dont take Vaccines, no matter what.
On the other extreme are people who want to force, demand everyone get Vaccinated.
Anti Vaccination:
Not everybody who is anti vaccination, is low IQ, or a CONSPIRACY Nut.
They have extremely good, logical, educated reasons.
1. One of the CDC Heads, that was HEAD of the CDC for about 19 years, REFUSED to take Vaccines, and wouldnt let any of his family take Vaccines. He kept that secret, because as head of the CDC he publically encouraged people to take Vaccines. YEARS later, he wrote a book, and explained why he didnt take vaccines, and why people should not vaccinate, and what is in Vaccines.
2. There have been mass test vacxinations, that were like the MANHATTAN PROJECT, that really messed up a lot of people.
3. Canada MASS vaccinated Canadien Native Americans, and caused the STERILIZATION of LOTS of Native Americans.
4. What the POLIO VACCINE did to LOTS of people worldwide, and not just the USA.
5. A couple, few, maybe some, vaccines, use ABORTION cells to help make the vaccine
6. Then there are the TRUE HORROR STORIES OF LOTS of Americans, who have had EXTREMELY bad experiences with Vaccines.
A. I am personally acquainted with someone who had someone in their family die to a Vaccine.
B. I am a very good friend with a Lady, and her husband, and family, kids, whose daughter, every time she takes a Vaccine, she has a severe asthma like attack, that makes it so that she cant breathe, has to get medical help, and almost died once, because of the Vaccine.
Her mother is extremely intelligent. Has good common sense. She has STUDIED about Vaccines, both the good and the bad. She, like the CDC head, doesnt take vaccines, and wont let her family take vaccines, and instead takes alternative scientific methods to deal with stuff, instead of vaccination.
As for my personal view. I lean toward anti vaccination, and so does my Wife, and not because of what the other thinks.
But that said, even tho I am anti vaccination, there are times like SMALL POX, SPANISH FLU, THE BLACK PLAGUE, EBOLA, etc, where the MORTALITY rate is so EXTREMELY high, and other factors, comparable to that, that Vaccination, and Mass Vaccination makes sense, and should be done, and maybe even enforced by law.
Also when me and my wife had our baby girl, we had her vaccinated, despite the RISK, because we did not want to get the things that could have made her sick and die.
When we did that. We asked the doctors to spread out the vaccination shots to one per day, week, month. And its a good thing we did, because our baby girl had a bad reaction, that would have been a lot worse, if we had let her have the shots all at once like whats usually done.
Amd just because I am anti vaccination, doesnt make me or anyone else a idiot.
All that said, its understandable why Pro Vaccination people have a problem with the anti vaccination extremist.
Thats not a problem, and even I a anti vaxxer have a problem with the anti Vaxxer extremist.
But when Pro Vaxxer's want to force Anti Vaxxer's, or ridicule, or limit their liberties, freedoms, that's a problem.
I know that some would argue that their rights are not being denied, because people have the right to be safe, etc. I understand, and agree with that point to a point, thats why if there was a outbreak comparable to the deadly outbreak in the movie outbreak, I would be one of those calling for ENFORCED, and Mandatory Vaccinations.
But for those saying that people should have to vaccinate to help keep peoole safe, then what about if the Anti Vaxxer's are right? What if Vaccines are as bad as they say they are? And what if people die, etc, because you forced them, ridiculed them, took away their liberties, freedoms, to get them to vaccinate.
I suppose that if that happened, there are those who would say that the ends justify the means, and that if a person has to die, because they took a vaccine, to protect a vulnerable person from dying, then so be it.
And maybe if it was the BLACK PLAGUE, or the MOVIE OUTBREAK scenario, then maybe they are right.
BUT its not that. Its Covid. A 1%, ONE PERCENT MORTALITY rate.
Somehow I dont think a 1% MORTALITY rate warrants forced vaccination, ridiculing, etc.
If it did, then the FLU should have mandatory vaccinations, and ridiculing those not vaccinating against the flu.
That said, its easy to say that, when there are people who have lost loved ones to covid, who understandably think there should be mandatory vaccinations, ridiculing those who dont vaccinate, etc.
The other thing in this is INFORMATION.
There is a lot of MISINFORMATION, AGENDAS, NARRATIVES, that are misleading both sides of this issues.
To the point, where all one can do is research, study things out, and make the best decisions they can.
I know that there are people on both sides of this issue who have done that.
This is a extremely gray, complex issue, and because of that, thete shouldnt be mandatory vaccinations for Covid, and those who have done research, have good reasons to not get vaccinated, should not be ridiculed.
And both sides should try to not be extreme, and try to understand the other side.
There is some middle ground on this issue.
There shouldnt be the extremes on either side of this issue.
This is a lot more complex, gray issue then some of you realize.
On the 1 extreme, you have people who dont take Vaccines, no matter what.
On the other extreme are people who want to force, demand everyone get Vaccinated.
Anti Vaccination:
Not everybody who is anti vaccination, is low IQ, or a CONSPIRACY Nut.
They have extremely good, logical, educated reasons.
1. One of the CDC Heads, that was HEAD of the CDC for about 19 years, REFUSED to take Vaccines, and wouldnt let any of his family take Vaccines. He kept that secret, because as head of the CDC he publically encouraged people to take Vaccines. YEARS later, he wrote a book, and explained why he didnt take vaccines, and why people should not vaccinate, and what is in Vaccines.
2. There have been mass test vacxinations, that were like the MANHATTAN PROJECT, that really messed up a lot of people.
3. Canada MASS vaccinated Canadien Native Americans, and caused the STERILIZATION of LOTS of Native Americans.
4. What the POLIO VACCINE did to LOTS of people worldwide, and not just the USA.
5. A couple, few, maybe some, vaccines, use ABORTION cells to help make the vaccine
6. Then there are the TRUE HORROR STORIES OF LOTS of Americans, who have had EXTREMELY bad experiences with Vaccines.
A. I am personally acquainted with someone who had someone in their family die to a Vaccine.
B. I am a very good friend with a Lady, and her husband, and family, kids, whose daughter, every time she takes a Vaccine, she has a severe asthma like attack, that makes it so that she cant breathe, has to get medical help, and almost died once, because of the Vaccine.
Her mother is extremely intelligent. Has good common sense. She has STUDIED about Vaccines, both the good and the bad. She, like the CDC head, doesnt take vaccines, and wont let her family take vaccines, and instead takes alternative scientific methods to deal with stuff, instead of vaccination.
As for my personal view. I lean toward anti vaccination, and so does my Wife, and not because of what the other thinks.
But that said, even tho I am anti vaccination, there are times like SMALL POX, SPANISH FLU, THE BLACK PLAGUE, EBOLA, etc, where the MORTALITY rate is so EXTREMELY high, and other factors, comparable to that, that Vaccination, and Mass Vaccination makes sense, and should be done, and maybe even enforced by law.
Also when me and my wife had our baby girl, we had her vaccinated, despite the RISK, because we did not want to get the things that could have made her sick and die.
When we did that. We asked the doctors to spread out the vaccination shots to one per day, week, month. And its a good thing we did, because our baby girl had a bad reaction, that would have been a lot worse, if we had let her have the shots all at once like whats usually done.
Amd just because I am anti vaccination, doesnt make me or anyone else a idiot.
All that said, its understandable why Pro Vaccination people have a problem with the anti vaccination extremist.
Thats not a problem, and even I a anti vaxxer have a problem with the anti Vaxxer extremist.
But when Pro Vaxxer's want to force Anti Vaxxer's, or ridicule, or limit their liberties, freedoms, that's a problem.
I know that some would argue that their rights are not being denied, because people have the right to be safe, etc. I understand, and agree with that point to a point, thats why if there was a outbreak comparable to the deadly outbreak in the movie outbreak, I would be one of those calling for ENFORCED, and Mandatory Vaccinations.
But for those saying that people should have to vaccinate to help keep peoole safe, then what about if the Anti Vaxxer's are right? What if Vaccines are as bad as they say they are? And what if people die, etc, because you forced them, ridiculed them, took away their liberties, freedoms, to get them to vaccinate.
I suppose that if that happened, there are those who would say that the ends justify the means, and that if a person has to die, because they took a vaccine, to protect a vulnerable person from dying, then so be it.
And maybe if it was the BLACK PLAGUE, or the MOVIE OUTBREAK scenario, then maybe they are right.
BUT its not that. Its Covid. A 1%, ONE PERCENT MORTALITY rate.
Somehow I dont think a 1% MORTALITY rate warrants forced vaccination, ridiculing, etc.
If it did, then the FLU should have mandatory vaccinations, and ridiculing those not vaccinating against the flu.
That said, its easy to say that, when there are people who have lost loved ones to covid, who understandably think there should be mandatory vaccinations, ridiculing those who dont vaccinate, etc.
The other thing in this is INFORMATION.
There is a lot of MISINFORMATION, AGENDAS, NARRATIVES, that are misleading both sides of this issues.
To the point, where all one can do is research, study things out, and make the best decisions they can.
I know that there are people on both sides of this issue who have done that.
This is a extremely gray, complex issue, and because of that, thete shouldnt be mandatory vaccinations for Covid, and those who have done research, have good reasons to not get vaccinated, should not be ridiculed.
And both sides should try to not be extreme, and try to understand the other side.
There is some middle ground on this issue.
There shouldnt be the extremes on either side of this issue.
We’re all C-level executives and professionals now.
Had to be there. It was awesome.
Hey Ratskellers was not a dive. Dispensery had great bands and a mechanical bull. The owner did have to split town cause the DEA was hot after him. PW Hoseapples I am sure had clean toilets .
my body was a temple so only thing I put I. It was the finest... Rainier Beer and maybe monarch vodka .
You wouldn't have lasted long during the Glenn Terrell years, sorry to say.
Monarch and Rainbeers built immunities in one's brain cells - only the strong survived and reproduced stronger brain cells. Drinking Darwinism, so to speak.
Hey Biggs when you pay 2k a semester for out-of-state instead of 525 a semester one has to cut in certain places .
Can't believe I drank Monarch 100 proof. Not even sure that stuff is good enough to clean my toilet.
More mechanical bull...less Monarch please.
More mechanical bull...less Monarch please.
But one of the mRNA test subjects was CougEd during the infamous 9-40 vaccine trials which hasn't reassured many skeptics
If you were drinking for taste during the Terrell era, you picked the wrong school to attend.
Professionals only. And ranked appropriately in certain periodicals. Amateurs need not apply.
supposedly an urban myth, but it's not. At all.
us not being ranked any longer because we became God status might be, though.
The lack of current ranking is because today's students squandered their inheritance. They've focused too much effort on putting pictures of their dinner on the internet, and not enough on learning how to party.
As usual, there's a lot to unpack here. A lot of it is personal choice stuff, so I'm not even going to touch it. But...
1. Sterilization of native Americans in Canada wasn't vaccine side effects. It was intentional. Government sponsored eugenics.
2. The oral polio vaccine has a low potential of reactivation, leading to polio infection. An incident with the injectable vaccine in the 50s had virus that was not fully deactivated, and caused thousands of infections and some deaths. The current vaccine has not been connected to known issues.
3. Some vaccines - including the J&J covid vaccine - are grown in fetal cells. But its not like vaccine producers are running around collecting tissue from abortion clinics. The cells are from stocks that have been grown and replicated since the 60s. It would be safe to estimate that they've saved millions of lives. .
4. Yes, some people have reactions to vaccines. Some people will die. A LOT more will die if we don't have them.
5. No need to vaccinate for plague. Maybe not for Spanish flu. Both would be more effectively controlled today. I think we should bring back smallpox vaccination - take that weapon out of our enemies' toolkit.
6. We have about 200 years' worth of data that show the anti vaxxers are wrong. Vaccines work, period. Yes, there are sometimes side effects, but those are far less common and less devastating than the diseases are. Although...I still don't grasp the need for a chickenpox vaccine. At the high end, for immunocompromised adults, mortality of chickenpox was about 0.02%. For school age kids it was 0.001%. Doesn't seem like a threat that needs mandatory vaccination.
7. If you're going to reference a public health movie, don't use Outbreak. It was a joke. Use Contagion.
8. You're overstating covid mortality by about 2.5. It's probably somewhere around 0.4%, give or take. Still 3-5x higher than flu. If it had a 1% mortality, we'd have a couple million deaths in this country alone, and it would certainly warrant mandatory vaccination.
9. There's one good reason to refuse vaccination: you're allergic. I'm not even on board with religious exemption, although I suppose its appropriate, since if your deity says you shouldn't vaccinate it increases your chances of meeting him/her in the near future. Most of the anti-vax arguments are political and reactionary, and not based in science. The science shows pretty clearly that the vaccines are better than the disease.
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So, you can still get the Chinese virus after being fully vaccinated. Students that get vaccinated can still get and spread the Chinese virus to other students that are vaccinated?
Cool.
Cool.
lol no I was certainly not drinking for taste back then. I had my priorities straight.
I had my share of Fraternity generic Kool-Aid with Monarch 100. Just commenting on Monarch with my current palate.
I still believe in mechanical bulls.
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Speaking of professionals, one guy in my house from Canada was not allowed to drink inside the house without wearing his football helmet.
The dude drank like a fish before he even enrolled and would run into walls and other fixed objects on a regular basis..hence the football helmet rule.
He ended up owning a very successful bar on Robson street in downtown Vancouver.
He's a good fella.
The dude drank like a fish before he even enrolled and would run into walls and other fixed objects on a regular basis..hence the football helmet rule.
He ended up owning a very successful bar on Robson street in downtown Vancouver.
He's a good fella.
Geez, No vaccine is 100% effective or 100% safe. The idea is too significantly reduce the risk of severe symptoms, infection and/or transmission at minimal personal risk. The small pox vaccine was only 95% effective to. How much small pox is there now? Zero. Why is that?
I wonder back in the day when Polio and Small Pox were killing thousands of people once they had the vaccine that had this many people (probably over 35%) who didn’t want to take the vaccine .
The public reaction to polio was much different. Remember that TV was just taking hold in the 50s. The TV broadcasts of kids in wheelchairs and dying scared the hell out of mothers that wanted to protect their children. The worst polio outbreak was in the neighborhood of 58,000 cases in 1952. The mortality rate was much higher, and you could be partially paralyzed. The first iteration of the polio vaccine took over five years to develop. So, no emergency use authorization.
Hard to say whether how much of the eradication was due to the vaccine and how much is due general improvements in hygiene and sanitary water.
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