eradicating sarscov2 and it's variants is a myth, "science" has said as much. So, sunshine, the premise of "no cases to be found" is fools gold.
WSU vaccine mandate
- Thread starter 95coug
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Eradication just may be possible if we can get a 100% effective vaccine resistance. I’m working on a theory where if I shine a UV flashlight up my anus and inject bleach I couldn’t potentially become 100% covid resistant on top of the Moderna 95%.
One only has to compare FLORIDA, to CA, Oregon, WA, Etc.
In FLORIDA, they have COMPLETELY, TOTALLY, OPENED up the ECONOMY, EVERYTHING.
And they did that DESPITE having one of the higher Covid infection rates. But despite that, the higher infection case rate, and Opening everything up, the Mortality Rate is STILL LOW, and the Hospitals are NOT overburdened.
If you look at CA, FLORIDA, side by side, they are ABOUT THE SAME, number of cases, Mortality rate, etc. The ONLY difference between the 2 states, is 1 is opened up, and the other is still LOCKED DOWN(CA).
So CA LOCKING EVERYTHING DOWN, VACCINATING, ETC, IS NOT IMPROVING CA OVER FLORIDA, at least not significantly, or at least does not seem like it.
So then, since that's the case, why is it that CA continues to LOCK DOWN, Trying to force, mandate Vaccinations, etc, and why doesnt FLORIDA do what CA doing?
1. It's either INCOMPETANCE or CONTROL, by CA Leaders.
A. They are not listening to the CDC, who has said that LOCK DOWNS should not be done.
B. CA and its leaders are not following science.
2. Florida and its leaders ARE COMPETANT, ARE NOT TRYING TO TAKE AWAY LIBERTIES, FREEDOMS, NOT TRYING TO CONTROL EVERYTHING AND EVERYONE.
3. FLorida is listening, following, obeying the CDC's DIRECTIVE to NOT lockdown, etc.
4. Florida is FOLLOWING the SCIENCE.
5. Florida realizes that if they LOCKDOWN, try to force vaccinate, et, that they will cause HARMS: like DEATHS, Suicides, MENTAL ILLNESS, Broken, Dysfunctional Families, Poverty, CRIME, Starvation, Homelessness, Kill the economy, lost JOB's, lost businesses, Kill Floridian Govt fiscal budget, trying to help people, turn Florida into a NANNY state govt, etc
6. Florida rightfully realizes that the so called supposed CURE, to deal with Covid(Lock Downs, Masking, Social Distancing, Forced, Mass Vaccinations, etc, is WORSE then Covid itself(EXTREMELY LOW mortality rate, EXTREMELY low hospitalization rate)
7. And they realize what one of the Founding Fathers said:
THOSE WHO WOULD GIVE UP OR NOT FIGHT FOR, DEFEND FREEDOMS, FOR SAFETY OF THEMSELVES OR OTHERS DESERVE NEITHER FREEDOM OR SAFETY.
A. There have been a LOT of FREEDOMS, LIBERTIES, TRAMPLED ON by States, Counties, Towns in the supposed name of dealing with Covid.
Supreme Court Justice NEIL GORSUCH, commented about CA, Las Vegas, NV,, not letting Religeous people sing, gather in church, even with mask on. He said those places will let thousands, millions, riot, as. SUPPOSED PROTESTING, and thus spread Covid. They will let hundreds, thousands shop in stores like Wal Mart, etc, spreading Covid. They will let hundreds, thousands sit side by side, shoulder to shoulder, GAMBLING at Casino's, spreading Covid
But they wont let Church goer's have more then 25 to 35 to 50 to 75 at Church, and wont let them sing, even with mask, and preventative precautions.
He said that they were being DISCRIMINATIVE HYPOCRITES, and that they were playing FAVORITES against Church Goer's, and THAT IN NO WORLD, UNIVERSE, does the USA CONSTITUTION let them do that.
He said that if such wrong measures continue, its going to destroy the freedoms, liberties, CONSTITUTION of the USA.
Thats what Florida RIGHTLY gets, that CA, and a couple, few, some posters here dont get.
Actually there was no "false equivalency". It was a simple question. If a manufactures warning label is cause for Justin as proof why not to take it, he would never take any drugs cause they all come with warnings. And the drug is not experimental. Went through all the riggers of trial and they have the data.
Other than lingering effects...I know a 22 year old who went to Florida last month, she too still has lingering effects. She plays division one basketball in a power five conference, and they don't know if she will resume to play at her past level because of lingering affects. My college friend has longhaulers as well. It is not fun.
Ah yes, the old strumming your harp and old and senile line. Straight from the playbook. It is pretty easy for you and I to tell people who are in their 70's, 80's and 90's, thanks for the memories. Thanks for storming the beach at Normandy, thanks for your service. But let's face it, you are old. you lived your life, it is about me now. I don't feel like having my liberties trampled on. I mean look at Vietnam and our all volunteer fighting force at the time. (sucked to have a bad number back in the day) You vets had it bad, thanks for fighting for my liberties and free speech. sorry if you get covid. But again, its about me now, that is what you fought for, right?
And the kids who have manageable diseases? You don't mind being put in the bubble do you? And if you get covid and get really sick, just the breaks, because it is about me. You know the crap I have had to go through the last year? I mean hell I have had to wear a mask and have people say mean things to me. Honestly, not just your generation or mine, but anyone under 70 would have had a tough time living through WWII. Talk about liberties being trampled, talk about life being uprooted, talk about sacrifices made. We are ill-equipped to deal with something like that.
Gotta tell you, one thing I have learned in life- what goes around comes around. I was 21 not all that long ago, at least in my memory. Goes by fast and you will be old and senile soon enough. I would laugh my ass off if the next variant of covid only hit males 40 and younger, and the side affect was to make their Johnson inoperable and unable to head north. I would bet you would be first in line to get that vaccine. Me, I might forget to get my booster because I am old and senile and continue to pass along the NO Johnson and Johnson virus.
Gosh...thanks so much for clarifying that. I was just talking to a client five minutes before i posted, was taking a quick break, but in my discussion was about my client buying a place so his mom could be a border, or is it boarder. Thanks for cleaning up my typo.
As a return favor, I will clear up my indoctrination as a mask wearer. I have zero moral superiority to those who do not wear them. I question their judgement. Me, I can for the most part protect myself, keep my self at a distance. Work from my home. See friends who have been vaccinated. But the people who I have felt for is the restaurant owners, the people who had their lives really up ended in a financial way. There are those who lost their jobs on this board. I am sympathetic, but I also recognize their liberty of not wearing a mask may be more important. I don't understand it, but that is their choice.
But I don't wear a mask because I am morally superior. I wear it so everyone can get back to their lives. I do it so my kids get to have a real college experience, not locked up in a dorm room. I do it so high school kids can get back to their sports. I do it so your son can follow the family tradition and can participate in the Kliff Klaven Knowledge Bowl.
The 2021 class is getting totally screwed. I wear a mask so a kid such as S Swinton who I have known since he was in third grade could play more than four games his senior year. Instead of PLU if there were was more tape a place like Central may have come calling. Fortunately Derek Sparks picked him up for PLU. But ther eare all kinds of stories like that. And that is part of teh reason I wear a mask and would hope others would to.
And it isn't all altruistic. There are selfish reasons I want to wear the mask so I don't have to anymore. So I can resume seeing friends and family. So I don't have to worry about when my daughter comes back from Pullman for a funeral of a 16 year old, she will bring covid with her.
It isn't a moral superiority, it is about getting out of a covid fox hole and getting everyone back to normal.
Are you saying the overlords will open things up if we don't vaccinate and the variants take hold? And like anything to do with science, we don't have "perfect information". Not sure the variants were taking hold at that point.
Are you try to say that even if virtually everyone gets vaccinated, and like polio and small pox, Covid is eradicated as it almost certainly will, the "overlords" will still make us wear masks and social distance because they simply love depriving us of freedom? Really? Come on! It is you, the 30-40 percent, the "bad science" aficionados, that refuse to do your part, that will give the "overlords," the very excuse to continue the "Chicken Little" non-sense. Surely, deep down, you know that. Don't grab defeat from the jaws of victory because you are upset that the pandemic could have been handled much better, we all know that. Getting the jab is giving the finger to the pandemic "hall monitors" crowd.
You're smoking something rather potent to believe the liberal politicians who've mandated your way of life over the last year are simply going to "lift" said mandates cuz "Golly, we're vaxuhnaydid now"....... Have you heard any of the word diarrhea Fauci has been spewing over the last couple of months? He's basically said that even if you're vaccinated, you still need to wear your mask (indoors AND outdoors!), socially distance, keep restaurants, gyms, movie theatres etc etc shut down because of the variants and the fact he still seems to believe that even if you get the shot, YOU'RE STILL CAPABLE OF SPREADING THE VIRUS. Like so WTF is the point of getting the vaccine when he says S&!T like that? Let me just leave this awesome quote from an all time classic of a movie: "Get busy living or get busy dying"
Wait...what happened to down to five, soon to be down to one...open up the economy for Jesus' resurrection. I must say I find Fauci a smidge more credible than a guy who wants to stick a flash light up your back side and use a disinfectant for a mouth wash. But that could be just me.
Maybe the goal posts move because there isnt a hard adherence to what they are recommending.
Most people with common sense know the more “ridiculous” mandates and recommendations are hedging protections. It’s highly unlikely the vast majority of people can pass the virus after being vaccinated, key operator is “can”. Basically a super old person who gets a breakthrough infection and becomes ill could still spread it. But they will always say “can”. Just like they knew it wasn’t going to kill 10% of people but still put out ihme models that said 400,000 people in WA were projected to die in April 2020. They err on the extreme side of cautious probably because everyone is so litigious and they only use upper bounds of data.
Also, there is a misconception that the liberal politicians are smart and are using data in an dishonest way despite knowing they’re wrong. The truth is they’re stupid. Newsome, Brown, Inslee...some of the most scientifically inept people on earth. Most republican governors too. None of them know what to do. So one side chose to do the minimum and the other side chose to go balls outs. Both are wrong.
Also, there is a misconception that the liberal politicians are smart and are using data in an dishonest way despite knowing they’re wrong. The truth is they’re stupid. Newsome, Brown, Inslee...some of the most scientifically inept people on earth. Most republican governors too. None of them know what to do. So one side chose to do the minimum and the other side chose to go balls outs. Both are wrong.
I'll just leave this here, from WaPo:
"Biden himself has been criticized for sending mixed messages recently by continuing to wear a mask outside despite official guidance that he doesn’t need to, since he is fully vaccinated."
It goes on to talk about vaccinating teens 12-15, to which I posit the following question: why are we vaccinating those who A) are in no real danger of becoming severely ill if they do happen to catch it and become symptomatic B) are statistically insignificant in the number of positive cases C) are not spreaders because even if they do become positive do not become symptomatic and current science says asymptomatic cases are not infectious.
Its this kind of scorched-earch approach that makes people believe that this is a social experiment to see just how much they can get away with before people start getting sideways. And its working on a LOT of people - I have vaccinated friends that have stated that they would not attend an NBA game given the following conditions: 25-50% crowd, socially distanced, and masks. One is 72, one is 51, and one is 45, and all three are convinced that the risk is so great that even given the green light for the above conditions, they still wouldn't feel safe. Which begs the question: what is the all clear signal they are waiting for? I'm guessing Biden himself declaring something like "you're at zero risk of catching SC2 now, please proceed".
"Biden himself has been criticized for sending mixed messages recently by continuing to wear a mask outside despite official guidance that he doesn’t need to, since he is fully vaccinated."
It goes on to talk about vaccinating teens 12-15, to which I posit the following question: why are we vaccinating those who A) are in no real danger of becoming severely ill if they do happen to catch it and become symptomatic B) are statistically insignificant in the number of positive cases C) are not spreaders because even if they do become positive do not become symptomatic and current science says asymptomatic cases are not infectious.
Its this kind of scorched-earch approach that makes people believe that this is a social experiment to see just how much they can get away with before people start getting sideways. And its working on a LOT of people - I have vaccinated friends that have stated that they would not attend an NBA game given the following conditions: 25-50% crowd, socially distanced, and masks. One is 72, one is 51, and one is 45, and all three are convinced that the risk is so great that even given the green light for the above conditions, they still wouldn't feel safe. Which begs the question: what is the all clear signal they are waiting for? I'm guessing Biden himself declaring something like "you're at zero risk of catching SC2 now, please proceed".
Even if this were true, the point to getting the vaccine is so you don't get sick. It really isn't that difficult.
Evidence is also mounting that vaccinated people are not spreading the virus.
from the head name caller who never contributes anything but flames on this board. Honestly, you are totally useless here and I wish you'd go the way of Yaki, et al. For some reason my ignore option isn't functioning, so since I'm replying -
no fcking shit. theres the old adage about the medain IQ and what that means, so thanks for the heads up capt obvious. Now how about you find a short pier and take a long walk..
Um first of all, not one person or government body has used any sort of protocols involving a "flashlight up your anus or disinfectant" nor has this person been deemed an "expert" for such viral protocols. So to make this comparison just makes you look ridiculous. Fauci is a part of this mess and the fact that people hang on his every word is most pathetic in the worst way.
If you keep your tinfoil hat on tight enough, you won't see my messages anymore.
I'm guessing that abusing strangers on the internet is how you manage to not violate your parole.
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No just came from the vaccine czar as the professionals were banished to the back of the line . Fauci was minimized by trump early on, strictly for political reasons and it was trumps one political miscalculation.
But he was the person who controlled the narrative , not Fauci... until Jan 21 .
I enjoy Fauci's yo-yoing between "data" and "common sense." Kind of like how there was no data that masks work back in March and April of 2020, and now it's just common sense that you should double mask.
Please . He explained why he went the no masks in 2020 . It was because they didn’t didn’t have enough masks for the physicians . A year ago they were turning masks inside out because there weren’t enough .
If by “explained” you mean lied, you would be correct. This is also a reason that a public health official should not lie to begin with.
Worth pointing out here that every year, thousands of people get flu shots and still get the flu. Vaccines aren’t a guarantee. None of them are 100% effective, especially when you’re dealing with zoonotic viruses.
Smallpox and polio were eradicated only after decades of concerted effort - and both of those are viruses that are unique to humans, significant mortality rates, and have no natural reservoir. In other words, those were the easy ones.
Yes he lied . But the guy out front said nothing to see here, five cases in Kirkland (meanwhile giving an interview to Bob Woodward telling him how dangerous it was) and then shut down the country, only to open back up and not listening to the people who have experience . Continue to cut Fauci off at the knees . And yeah probably wouldn’t have had to lie if they mass produced the masks like they needed to . But I digress .
You should double mask when you’re sleeping. It’s just common sense.
You may have missed it, but Trump has been out of office for more than 100 days. Fauci is still contradicting himself.
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"Look, I think, that possibly, in the near to far future, that we can maybe, if we continue to mask up and socially distance even if you're vaccinated, that there is a slight chance that we could potentially open up in the next 6 to 12 months."
Too bad he failed miserably with the aids epidemic and continues to be a failure with COVID.
"I hope you get no medical help when you get covid and get super sick!" because someone doesn't want to get vaccinated. Cool retort.
Good ol' cop killing, rioting and burning but super tolerant liberals.
Too bad he failed miserably with the aids epidemic and continues to be a failure with COVID.
"I hope you get no medical help when you get covid and get super sick!" because someone doesn't want to get vaccinated. Cool retort.
Good ol' cop killing, rioting and burning but super tolerant liberals.
Keep licking those boots and claiming to love America while agents of the state execute citizens protected by the constitution without due process.
Ummm correct trunp has been gone for four months . But he was the spokesperson for Covid when you bring up the lie Fauci told regarding masks in 2020.
Second, Fauci predicted every big spike based on behavior since covid hit.I have news for you medicine and disease is not static. It changed evolves and protocol changes. Sorry this mask thing has caused you and others such issues .Me, I prefer to get the disease under control and will be harnessed with a mask in public until kids are free to go back to school and live a normal life .
Maybe if you repeat your BS enough, you'll eventually believe it. Fauci also touted that wearing THREE masks would be even more effective. I love breathing my own CO2!
It’s interesting you bring up AIDS...let’s put aside Fauci on this one. You acknowledge it’s real (ie a threat, not the flu). Also a virus. Now of course at this point in time decades later we know it’s blood/bodily fluid transmissible and not airborne. Did experts know that at this point during that epidemic (roughly 2 years after it started surfacing in humans?). Did they know what the effects would be in 5 years after contraction...10 years? Couldn’t have...just like today. Turned out to be a death sentence. Lots of differences sure, I just find it fascinating that intelligent people are ignoring those who have studied this stuff their entire lives instead gobbling up nonsense from The Who’s who of selfish greedy folks/con artists (politicians, Tucker Carlson, Mike Lindell, etc) on something that’s still such an unknown as far as long term effects. Back to the original post...mandatory vaccines. Multi billion dollar public companies (my employer included) are strongly encouraging their employees to get vaccinated. Do you understand the kind of liability that opens them up to if there’s something nefarious going on with vaccinations? If there was ANY doubt, they wouldn’t think about it. Forget about what Fauci says, that speaks volumes.
I'll bite. So Doc in Spain, why did the infection rate go up after Memorial day, Labor Day, in the winter? Is that because of masks or was it simply bad luck? What data do you have that shows either masks don't work or going mask-less stops the spread of teh virus.
And also tell me what the future variants will look like and if going mnask-less will protect us from those variants. Do you know Covid in the future will not morph into something that will take out our young?
I am not an alarmist, but I tend to be someone who if I have to wear a mask for 18 months and POTENTIALLY keep it from morphing into something that may have a bigger impact on the younger people in our society.
And if I have to hedge, and be safe for 18 months so we can get back to normal I am willing to do it even if it’s excessive and seems to be redundant and even contradictory.
There was spike when people gathered or were indoors more often. Just like all other respiratory illnesses. What a genius.
Ah... does that mean the conservatives are “ cross burning , insurrectionist cop beating super tolerant conservatives ?
Ummm...that is why they just don't call it seasonal.....they call it a pandemic because things are fluid. I know that is hard in your rigid world, but goal posts move cause different data comes in.
So asking you how to prevent without masks isn't a Faucism, but rather a Blitherism....someone who has the answer for everything you picked a funny time not to.
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