WSU vs usc. 2017
- Thread starter COUGinNCW
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and hey, look! There's Pippens making a huge show after a pass that he was covering was overthrown... because he had anything to do with that.
Hard to believe we've seen things like WSU beating freaking No. 5 USC -- not to mention Stanford, Oregon, and others -- and people aren't a little more appreciative of what Leach has done the past three years. Some definite shortcomings and hasn't been perfect by any means, but some very good results in a poor situation (recruiting territory, recruiting draw of the school, money, and so on) that I believe isn't appreciated sufficiently. I hope the next couple years don't have people pining for those 9-win years.
All right, I must vent on that just a little more ... I've been getting the expected responses when I tweeted out something similar, citing the blowout losses, the Apple Cup problems, and so on. We're complaining about a WSU team firmly in the mix for conference championships until the last game (or two, in the case of a couple years ago). Let me say that again ... a WSU team, not too long after we all would have given just about anything for a bowl game of any kind, seeing its fans bitch and moan about 9-win years. How do people think WSU has won almost 3/4 of its conference games the past few years, and do they appreciate how freaking meaningful that is, especially when Leach started without much talent in the program? The only schools not to have a "bad" year in the past three are UW, Stanford, USC, and ... WSU. (This assumes we call Utah's 3-6 year in conference last year "bad.") One of those isn't like the others ... WSU has the worst situation in the conference and some of the best overall results. Most coaches go into places with better situations and still fail in the competitive world of Power 5 football.
So what do people really expect? Do they think a WSU coach realistically should be out there beating out UCLA, USC, UW, and Oregon (or even ASU, Cal, Stanford, etc.) for recruits with any regularity? That's not going to happen. If not, how are you supposed to beat those schools when you don't have the same athletes or talent? Better assistants? It's not easy to get them in the first place, and even if you do, what happens when those coaches keep getting poached, as we've seen (even if you hired the right ones in the first place), since other schools have more money and better recruiting situations? Better training? Let me guess, because we have a FOB that was expensive, our kids are getting better training, right? Oh, that's right -- everyone else has the same thing. It's required to stay in the game, it's not a differentiator. Better in-game coaching or scheming? Yeah, that's valuable, but that's only worth so much. Training table? Alkaline water? Pixie dust? How do you take players who aren't as good, in the aggregate, and beat those who are, and who have the same or better level of coaching, facilities, training staffs, and so on? Magic? Every conference win we get should be appreciated, let alone winning almost 3 out of 4 of them in the past few years. I'd love to hear what the realistic expectations are in terms of, at a nuts and bolts level, building a consistent top-25 kind of team at WSU. Good luck.
It's amazing what Price was able to do in the peaks, but other than that, WSU pretty much has been the kind of school that goes 3-8 or 4-7 (or 3-9 or 4-8 in the current era) most years and shows up in a rivalry game once in a while. Yet many people scoff at what Leach has done like it means nothing. To be absolutely clear, we shouldn't be content with Leach's results, and he's not beyond reproach for some of his decisions/behavior, but it's worth quite a bit to have the level of success he's had in the context of the situation at WSU, even if it hasn't been perfect.
So what do people really expect? Do they think a WSU coach realistically should be out there beating out UCLA, USC, UW, and Oregon (or even ASU, Cal, Stanford, etc.) for recruits with any regularity? That's not going to happen. If not, how are you supposed to beat those schools when you don't have the same athletes or talent? Better assistants? It's not easy to get them in the first place, and even if you do, what happens when those coaches keep getting poached, as we've seen (even if you hired the right ones in the first place), since other schools have more money and better recruiting situations? Better training? Let me guess, because we have a FOB that was expensive, our kids are getting better training, right? Oh, that's right -- everyone else has the same thing. It's required to stay in the game, it's not a differentiator. Better in-game coaching or scheming? Yeah, that's valuable, but that's only worth so much. Training table? Alkaline water? Pixie dust? How do you take players who aren't as good, in the aggregate, and beat those who are, and who have the same or better level of coaching, facilities, training staffs, and so on? Magic? Every conference win we get should be appreciated, let alone winning almost 3 out of 4 of them in the past few years. I'd love to hear what the realistic expectations are in terms of, at a nuts and bolts level, building a consistent top-25 kind of team at WSU. Good luck.
It's amazing what Price was able to do in the peaks, but other than that, WSU pretty much has been the kind of school that goes 3-8 or 4-7 (or 3-9 or 4-8 in the current era) most years and shows up in a rivalry game once in a while. Yet many people scoff at what Leach has done like it means nothing. To be absolutely clear, we shouldn't be content with Leach's results, and he's not beyond reproach for some of his decisions/behavior, but it's worth quite a bit to have the level of success he's had in the context of the situation at WSU, even if it hasn't been perfect.
Just as an aside, that game featured the best damn touch throw I've ever seen. Falk was getting chased to the sideline and he uncorked a rainbow from halfway to the ground that landed right in Jamere Calvin's lap in the back corner of the end zone, from like 35 yards out. But it was dropped, of course, so no highlight reel for you Luke
It was an incredible game and I loved every second of it.
WSU has had some absolutely amazing games under Leach and not a single person bought a ticket to Martin and watched them lose last year. Not a single person..
And yet here we are with people complaining about Moos and then of course idiotic fans like CougEd still hanging around.
WSU’s biggest setback are the morons that don’t know how to appreciate good things.
It’s like some weird version of Pullman (Stockholm) Syndrome where they want the program to be bad and can’t enjoy it when it is good.
I honestly don’t know exactly where it came from but it usually comes from Walden/Wulff lovers.
Beat #5 USC. Just 1 game away from winning the conference against a resurgent UW who is the best they have been in decades...
B*tch...b*tch....b*tch...b*tch..b*tch
Leach takes over a 4 win program wins 9 games twice and 8 wins another. Beats USC twice, Oregon three times, Stanford twice, UCLA at UCLA,
Waaaah waaah waaaah....blah blah blah
Have a beautiful stadium with a stunning football ops building
waaaah waaaah Moos
Nah F*ck you. Something is wrong with you if you think that way. You must be mentally ill or something.
That’s why I am so harsh on here. My patience is run out with people that stupid and obnoxious. You can’t enjoy success? Well if you enjoy misery i’ll dish it to your dumb*ss
WSU has had some absolutely amazing games under Leach and not a single person bought a ticket to Martin and watched them lose last year. Not a single person..
And yet here we are with people complaining about Moos and then of course idiotic fans like CougEd still hanging around.
WSU’s biggest setback are the morons that don’t know how to appreciate good things.
It’s like some weird version of Pullman (Stockholm) Syndrome where they want the program to be bad and can’t enjoy it when it is good.
I honestly don’t know exactly where it came from but it usually comes from Walden/Wulff lovers.
Beat #5 USC. Just 1 game away from winning the conference against a resurgent UW who is the best they have been in decades...
B*tch...b*tch....b*tch...b*tch..b*tch
Leach takes over a 4 win program wins 9 games twice and 8 wins another. Beats USC twice, Oregon three times, Stanford twice, UCLA at UCLA,
Waaaah waaah waaaah....blah blah blah
Have a beautiful stadium with a stunning football ops building
waaaah waaaah Moos
Nah F*ck you. Something is wrong with you if you think that way. You must be mentally ill or something.
That’s why I am so harsh on here. My patience is run out with people that stupid and obnoxious. You can’t enjoy success? Well if you enjoy misery i’ll dish it to your dumb*ss
Someone obviously doesn’t understand the importance of the Apple Cup and the fragile egos of certain fans....
Some of our fans have very fragile egos. And I am convinced that some would rather lose than win because they’re more comfortable as losers.
And Leach is a big, mean jerk.
I watched it last night as well. Kinda cool how the announcer told the story of "Moos traveling 2000 miles away to Key West to convince Leach to take over a program that was arguably the worst in Division One football"...
At times we tend to forget the sh!t storm that CML agreed to clean up and make relevant again.
At times we tend to forget the sh!t storm that CML agreed to clean up and make relevant again.
I remember, someone, posting just before the USC game that Falk didn't have a signature win. Later, with the team at 9-3, he still wasn't happy. I think this year he might admit to missing Falk (now that he is gone). Someday, with blood trickling down his bit lip, he might even choke out an admission of missing Leach.
That USC win will go down in history as one of our all-time great home games.
That USC win will go down in history as one of our all-time great home games.
I don't think anyone forgets what CML has done over the last 6 years. I certainly don't.
This whole thread is kind of amusing. It's as if all of the posts are trying to pick a fight with these nameless, faceless nega-fans. With the usual personal attack thrown in.
Carry on.
I don't think anyone forgets what CML has done over the last 6 years. I certainly don't.
This whole thread is kind of amusing. It's as if all of the posts are trying to pick a fight with these nameless, faceless nega-fans. With the usual personal attack thrown in.
Carry on.
My post wasn't intended to give anyone in particular on here grief. I'm just amazed more people don't appreciate what was done the past few years. Not perfect but noteworthy and really good compared to what is "deserved" in our situation, the horrors of the pre-Leach period, what people should expect based on history, or the reality of some other programs being well-situated right now, especially UW.
If, or more likely when, we see a down year, those same people bitching now will *really* be out in force, claiming that a "Leach lover" like me must really be happy with the "$4m coach" not performing up to par, etc., asking whether I"m happy at that time, and so on. Well no, you clowns, that was my entire point ... enjoy the years we were *not* 5-7, because it's damn hard to go 9-4 most years and win 70% of conference games in the Pac-12 when in the worst recruiting and financial situation in the conference.
Except that you kinda are giving people grief. I don't get that. Does anyone not appreciate the last few years? No. Are people bitching about the last few years? No. Are they clowns? Well, opinions differ.
There is nothing wrong with passing the time by talking about whether we spent too much on the FOB, or lamenting the inability to beat the mutts or actually win these bowl games that we are going to now, or wishing our coach would keep his mouth shut. None of that means "we" don't appreciate all the good things.
What IS wrong is the constant attacking and insulting of other posters (not looking at you 425) over any opinion or random musing that does not perfectly align with someone's utopian point of view.
Rant over.
Losing the Apple Cup is one thing, but refusing to get off the bus every freaking year is another. It's the latter that has people pissed.
Also: 0 top 25 finishes so far in the Leach era.
Maybe the distinction is too fine to come through in what I'm writing, but for my part, at least, I'm not saying in this thread that people shouldn't complain about Moos, the cost of the FOB, Leach's statements, or anything else (even if I do have my own views on those topics, most of which are consistent with supporting Leach and the investments in the program). I think there is room for debate on those and other topics.
I just believe our fans in general--not just some on here, but on Twitter and elsewhere--don't appreciate how good the past few years have been in terms of numerous meaningful wins and a solid overall record, both of which are very hard to attain in Pullman. The USC game was on ESPN U last night and it reminded me of how remarkable it is to beat a pretty good USC team ranked #5 at the time. A lot of people don't seem to get how hard it is to have the kind of success we've seen, given the context that I discussed in my posts.
This isn't designed to be a post saying Leach is perfect, the program is going to somehow dominate the Pac-12, or that Leach is going to win a title in Pullman. In fact, while I'm not saying it will happen, I wouldn't be shocked if we didn't win 9 games again in the next 5 years. To me, that wouldn't even necessarily mean Leach is a bad coach or doing a bad job, depending on what we're talking about (8-5 in some of those years vs. a bunch of 3-9 disasters). It would just reflect the difficulty of the task.
It's not as if some have forgotten the "sh!t storm" CML inherited. They never saw it as one.
Has there ever been a coach at WSU that wasn't critized and didn't have detractors? Here are the biggest criticisms of the most successful coaches at WSU in the last fifty years. Can you match the criticism? Can recruit, but can't coach? Too foreign? Big fish in a little pond? Boring? Doesn't win consistently enough and is a suspect game coach? Can't win championships or compete with the Huskies?
We were a pube away from being the new Oregon State, what Leach has accomplished with what he inherited is truly remarkable. Now is there anything he could improve on? If he is perfect, it would be unfair to critize. I don't see perfection, not yet.
We were a pube away from being the new Oregon State, what Leach has accomplished with what he inherited is truly remarkable. Now is there anything he could improve on? If he is perfect, it would be unfair to critize. I don't see perfection, not yet.
I personally think our Apple Cup experience has more to do with player confidence then UW being that much better than us.
I listened to Chris Peterson talk about how they have developed a leadership council and the approach he takes to off-field development. I for one would like to see him take over the Seahawks when Pete hangs up the cleats.
I listened to Chris Peterson talk about how they have developed a leadership council and the approach he takes to off-field development. I for one would like to see him take over the Seahawks when Pete hangs up the cleats.
uw's defensive talent in general, and defensive line talent in particular has been remarkable. I think that's coming to an end this season. But we'll see.
Morrow's will to win and the defensive line giving Darnold hell the 4th quarter. So great.
Every game I see Morrow in (saw one recently from like his fresh or soph year) he played so hard and ran so well. Ya kind of forget how much he meant to us.
He didn't stick with Seattle or anyone else as a FA?
I am unsure if UW will fall off, but I suspect that through assistants getting poached eventually the program sort of gets Cannibalized if Petersen doesn't leave for like some mega job or retire like Meyer did from florida.
My hope for destructions comes from either A) Petersen just wants another challenge and is tired of Seattle or B) Enough assistants get poached that he can't maintain it.
As much as I hate the huskies II have to admit, Petersen was the best hire they have made in decades. It absolutely sucks for us to have to deal with him, but it is what it is.
It's about Peterson/Wilcox chalking up a specific game plan to shut down our offense. That's why Cal kicked our teeth in as well...
Errrrr, what I meant to say is that the gameplan was perfect and the kids didn't execute. Yeah. Kids. Execute. All of them.
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Do you realize that nobody mentioned Wulff or Walden in this thread before you let more sewage spew? Why do you obsess about those guys? Did Wulff beat you up when you were at WSU and Walden laugh at you when you cried to him? Let it f'ing go.
I've posted this before, but when Vita Vea was on the sidelines, his replacement got shoved all over the place. While the UW has recruited DBs exceptionally well under Peterson, losing a guy like Vea and a LB like Victor isn't good. It's not as if the mutt defense will become a Wulffian-like disaster, but it most likely will drop off.
I'm not related to Wulff in any fashion but you might be on to something with Tron. Maybe he wanted to date Wulff and he was rebuffed.
I see them as people who brought a crappy attitude to WSU and are a plague on the program.
To illustrate this Paul Wulff in his firing conference instead of being gracious for his time at WSU and hoping and wishing for the best for the program and the new direction instead we got some BS "losing our innocence" and all this bs.
This was the wrong thing to do. Because of this kind of stupidity, poor leadership, and lack of humility instead of having a fresh start and a new beginning we have this bs bitterness. That bitterness lingers and festers and does nothing but hold the program back from enjoying its new chapter and success. It produces idiots like CougEds who are an obnoxious blight that we have to deal with because they are too bitter and brainwashed to let people just enjoy our new coach and our new found success. They cling so deeply to the "no no Wulff was this wulff was that" that the program never gets a chance to move on because of their selfish stupidity.
If Paul Wulff had left in a respectable manner, cheered for the team to have success, and was excited for Coach Leach to take the program to the next level then there would be no problem. Wulff was a crappy coach, but a decent guy.
He turned out to be a crappy coach, someone who refused to accept responsibility for his crappiness, and a bitter blame everyone else for their problems kind of person.
Walden of course is his mentor, and true to form like Emperor Palpatine and Vader the master decided to run HIS mouth after Leach was hired throwing dirt on the program, trashing anyone who wanted to make a change, and also lobbying hard for his boy Wulff to be the coach when we could have gotten Franklin or Sumlin.
Ultimately these are horribly selfish people with a gigantic false sense of self importance where it never was actually about the program's success. It was about their insecure need to feel important and hear themselves talk. That came first. The actual health and success of the program came second.
So I see them as enemies of the program. And their disciples as brainwashed goons.
Washington State the University and the Cougar Football Program don't belong to Paul Wulff, they don't belong to Jim Walden, or Mike Leach, or Mike Price. It belongs to the University, all the alumni, and the fans.
Either you are helping the program move forward and have success. Or you are holding it back. And they are the hold it back types, and I don't like that. I don't like that at all.
What makes WSU great is the family atmosphere, but like a lot of families there is 1 or 2 drunk asshole Uncles who think they can tell everyone what to do when they haven't accomplished a damn thing in there life nor actually know how to do it.
Walden and Wulff are those people. And sometimes you have to boot them out and tell them to f*ck off because they aren't contributing anything positive.
I'm in a Coors Light mood tonight so for once I will (also) respond to the other cancer on this site. That's you Tron, in case you don't get the reference.
1. I would wager that the "drunk uncle" that your post refers to resembles you more than it does most others who call themselves Cougs. You sure as F have a lot more time to do endless research and write manifestos than some of us who have real jobs and lives. So there, I just broke my own vow of no personal attacks. You are a dipshit. Oops, did it again.
2. As far as Walden not "contributing anything positive", have you given over $100,000 to Cougar Athletics like Jim has? I can pretty much bet not, But wait, neither has your idol Bill Moos! So continue to spew your ridiculous BS about a guy has been gone for over 30 years.
I'm in a Coors Light mood tonight so for once I will (also) respond to the other cancer on this site. That's you Tron, in case you don't get the reference.
1. I would wager that the "drunk uncle" that your post refers to resembles you more than it does most others who call themselves Cougs. You sure as F have a lot more time to do endless research and write manifestos than some of us who have real jobs and lives. So there, I just broke my own vow of no personal attacks. You are a dipshit. Oops, did it again.
2. As far as Walden not "contributing anything positive", have you given over $100,000 to Cougar Athletics like Jim has? I can pretty much bet not, But wait, neither has your idol Bill Moos! So continue to spew your ridiculous BS about a guy has been gone for over 30 years.
He owes WSU all of his salary. He's still in debt to us.
Bill Moos unlike Jim Walden gets hired to work for Power 5 teams of which he's been at the helm of numerous winning programs. Oregon, WSU, and he will do it again at Nebraska with Scott Frost.
Jim Walden came running back to Pullman because nobody wanted him in Iowa.
I do all my research setting in my beautiful home office. I know this may shock someone like yourself, but I enjoy doing research and understanding the actual fundamentals on how things work and doing analysis. Because that's how you learn. That's how you actually understand how things work. And when you learn how things work you have an understanding of what needs to be done to accomplish certain things. Similar to engineers who are problem solvers. You put in the effort, then you know. That's why I was able to know we would win 9 games in year 4/5. It's not because I'm "smarter" than other people. It's that I like to know what I am talking about if I hold a position on something.
So I went through the history of WSU football looking for patterns in break out years. Assessed where our recruiting ranking was previously and compared that to what Leach was bringing in. Took a look at what Leach had done at Texas Tech. That was it.
Now that's very different from people who are too lazy to do the work who come on here and just "ooog oog I think this" without any actual knowledge to back it up.
I don't post from my gut. I post from my brain, and I'm willing to do the work.
You of course enjoy talking out of your ass, so I don't expect to be popular with someone like you.
So just to be clear to all your followers, No you have not given over $100,000 to WSU Athletics like Jim Walden?
And you don't mind that Bill Moos is not even a $50,000 donor to WSU even even made millions while here and moved on to Nebraska where he makes a million a year?
How much money has WSU given Jim Walden, how much air time did WSU give Jim Walden to flap his gums?
To be clear. That f*cker owes us money. Where is Iowa State calling to hear the "sage wisdom of Jim Walden" oh wait that's right they don't give sh*t about Jim Walden, and neither should we.
So you have not given over $100,000 to WSU Athletics. Like Jim Walden did.
What's funny is that Bill Moos made WAYYY more than Jim Walden during his time at WSU, but Jim was stealing from WSU and your pal Moos gets a pass for his stinginess?
Bill Moos raised more in donations then anybody. Including Jim Walden.
Jim Walden was employed by WSU from
1978-1986 - 9 years
He was then employed by WSU AGAIN
from 2001-2012 - 11 years
So for 20 years WSU paid the salary of some blowhard.
Who produced the following 6 out of 9 losing seasons.
As I said. HE OWES US MONEY.
And of course his PROTEGE Paul Wulff who gave us 4 out of 4 losing seasons.
So in total Walden brought us 10 out of 13 losing seasons.... Paid him for 20 years of "service"
HE OWES US MONEY.
So, Tron, you have not given more than $100,000 to WSU like JIm Walden has? How many times do I have to ask this question? I have all the time in the world.
And FYI, Walden did not "work for WSU" from 2001-2012. Perhaps he worked for a media outlet that broadcast WSU games.
Oh, and another comment. Did you know that Walden has given more money to WSU Athletics than ANY coach or Athletic Director ever?
I've given close to 100k to WSU as I give 5k every year since I've been out of school + the CAF donations. And that doesn't include my tuition that I paid. If you add that I am over 100k to WSU. And WSU never employed me for 20 years. Nor did I bring 10 out of 13 losing seasons to WSU an expect to run my mouth and tell people what to do.
Actually he did "work for WSU" that's why Bill Moos sent him a letter saying get lost
Did you know Walden is responsible for the crappy loser attitude we've had at WSU and 10 out of 13 losing seasons.
GET THE MAN A MEDAL! 10 out of 13 losing seasons and we paid him for 20 years and gave us back 100k of it!.
PARTYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY
Jim Walden is trash. A blowhard loser. But hey since you love him so much here's a game from his last incredible 3-7-1 season at WSU for you to watch.
Now I don't want to give you spoilers...but it was an incredible performance...
He owes us at least 1 million plus dollars.
You know how much he was paid for that "ending on a high note" game.
32k at least. Because' that's where he started. yet... 32k in 1978 was worth about what today?
So he was making about 128k in today's money..
Still that jackass was trying to get a new job WHILE THE SEASON WAS STILL GOING ON.
"What I'm looking for is maybe a school like Iowa," he said."
He left Iowa State after going WINLESS his last year
"Walden's contract, with Walden continuing to receive his salary of
$111,197 a year plus benefits through 1997."
So for being a mostly loser he was paid about 100k / year as a head coach. THE LEAST HE COULD DO IS GIVE IT BACK TO US.
The guy sucks. Get better heroes.
