Abandoning allies

[Loyal Coug1]

Okay, I will splain to you, Lucy. Krusty said in a post that we are a democracy, which is not accurate. We (the United States of America) are a republic, which is why the word repiblic is in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Speaking of which, 90, I actually do say the Pledge of Allegiance every month at the beginning of our car club meeting. And I do know how to say it properly too, meaning without the comma after the word "nation". I would say that 90% of people don't know that.

Too bad you don't know how to spell "republic" very well. And potato, pahtato. Interesting read below on what being a Republic means. Here's a quote:

Another key element of this governance style is the separation of powers among branches of the government, a system meant to foster a balance of power. The legislative branch makes laws, the executive branch enforces these laws, and the judiciary interprets them. Each branch operates independently from the others to prevent any accumulation of power, adhering to the principles laid out by the framers of the Constitution.

Is the U.S. a Democracy or a Republic? Find Out! - U.S. Constitution.net

Defining a Constitutional Republic The United States operates as a constitutional republic, a form of government that involves representatives elected by the people, who execute their duties under the constraints of a prevailing constitution that specifies the powers and limits of government...

www.usconstitution.net

 

[Observer11]

Bummer. I have 5 guns. Used to be 9, but my ex got several, including my varmint rifle and my 12 Gauge.

I didn't say we don't have guns in the household. I said I don't own a gun.

Doesn't mean my wife couldn't put one right between someone's eyes.

 

[Stretch 74]

Too bad you don't know how to spell "republic" very well. And potato, pahtato. Interesting read below on what being a Republic means. Here's a quote:

Another key element of this governance style is the separation of powers among branches of the government, a system meant to foster a balance of power. The legislative branch makes laws, the executive branch enforces these laws, and the judiciary interprets them. Each branch operates independently from the others to prevent any accumulation of power, adhering to the principles laid out by the framers of the Constitution.

Is the U.S. a Democracy or a Republic? Find Out! - U.S. Constitution.net

Defining a Constitutional Republic The United States operates as a constitutional republic, a form of government that involves representatives elected by the people, who execute their duties under the constraints of a prevailing constitution that specifies the powers and limits of government...

www.usconstitution.net

You might want to check the layout of your keyboard. If you do that, you will find that the letter "i" happens to be right next to the letter "u", leading to the obvious conclusion that "repiblic" was simply a typo and no evidence that I don't know how to spell republic. Especially given the many other times I have spelled republic and republican correctly. Besides, if you are going to go on the warpath for typos and misspellings, CougEd will be attacked without mercy, and you won't escape unscathed yourself!

Not sure if you were trying to disagree with me or not, but the text you included does say republic is what we have, as well as this additional quote from further down in the article:
"The conflation of ‘democracy’ and ‘republic’ in contemporary usage often obscures their distinct historical and constitutional meanings. A democracy, in its purest form as practiced in ancient Athens, involves direct participation of the citizenry in legislative decisions. While democratic, this approach was deemed impractical and potentially volatile by the framers of the U.S. Constitution, leading them to form a constitutional republic. This system combines representative democracy with foundational laws that protect individual rights and minority opinions against the potential tyranny of the majority."


Now a link to the famous quote from Benji Franklin:

“A republic if you can keep it”: Elizabeth Willing Powel, Benjamin Franklin, and the James McHenry Journal | Unfolding History

On the last day of the Constitutional Convention in 1787 Benjamin Franklin made a remark that we still quote today. But did he really say it? And who was the woman he said it to? A diary in the Manuscript Division holds the evidence.

blogs.loc.gov

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

Okay, I will splain to you, Lucy. Krusty said in a post that we are a democracy, which is not accurate. We (the United States of America) are a republic, which is why the word repiblic is in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Speaking of which, 90, I actually do say the Pledge of Allegiance every month at the beginning of our car club meeting. And I do know how to say it properly too, meaning without the comma after the word "nation". I would say that 90% of people don't know that.

When I hear you right-wingers make this claim...what is it exactly are you quibbling with? Can we not all agree with the colloquial term "democracy" when we speak of the uSA?

What do you object to or want to change about the way we have been doing things for over 200 years? I say "democracy" and O11 and you push back with "republic". Po-TAY-to, po-TA-to. Aren't we both speaking of the same form of government?

You "snowflakes" are obviously taking exception to the similarity to "democrats". I dont object we are a republic. Taihtsat

 

[WillieThePimp]

Okay, I will splain to you, Lucy. Krusty said in a post that we are a democracy, which is not accurate. We (the United States of America) are a republic, which is why the word repiblic is in the Pledge of Allegiance.

Speaking of which, 90, I actually do say the Pledge of Allegiance every month at the beginning of our car club meeting. And I do know how to say it properly too, meaning without the comma after the word "nation". I would say that 90% of people don't know that.

Thanks for the ‘lesson’, Benedict, You’re saying that the Pledge of Allegiance written in 1885 ( and later modified 4 times) to indoctrinate the mindless is the be all end all to this topic. Right.

See Krusty’s post above where he nails the crux of the matter. The two terms have always been used interchangeably, Forever. The only people splitting hairs and taking issue with referring to our form of governance as a “democracy” are rightwing nutters. What the phuck is it with that.

 

[UberCougars]

Unhinged, sad.

 

[dgibbons]

When I hear you right-wingers make this claim...what is it exactly are you quibbling with? Can we not all agree with the colloquial term "democracy" when we speak of the uSA?

What do you object to or want to change about the way we have been doing things for over 200 years? I say "democracy" and O11 and you push back with "republic". Po-TAY-to, po-TA-to. Aren't we both speaking of the same form of government?

You "snowflakes" are obviously taking exception to the similarity to "democrats". I dont object we are a republic. Taihtsat

How does this fit in with George Clooney running around destroying presidential campaigns?

 

[WillieThePimp]

Functionally retarded. Sadder still.

 

[Stretch 74]

When I hear you right-wingers make this claim...what is it exactly are you quibbling with? Can we not all agree with the colloquial term "democracy" when we speak of the uSA?

What do you object to or want to change about the way we have been doing things for over 200 years? I say "democracy" and O11 and you push back with "republic". Po-TAY-to, po-TA-to. Aren't we both speaking of the same form of government?

You "snowflakes" are obviously taking exception to the similarity to "democrats". I dont object we are a republic. Taihtsat

No, we cannot all agree with that, because it is incorrect. Why don't we all agree on the proper definition and usage of the terms instead? Words have meanings and the two terms are NOT synonymous. Go back and look at the quote I pulled out of the link from Loyal that explains things succinctly.

I fully understand that a republic is a democratic form of government, but it is NOT a democracy.

Let me give you another example of incorrect usage of words that are used interchangeably. Is anyone here aware that there is a difference between cement and concrete? Maybe a couple of you, but the vast majority of the public, including about 99% of broadcast media are ignorant of that fact. You will undoubtedly immediately push back in order to bolster your position on republic vs democracy, but you would be wrong. There is no such thing as a cement wall, cement driveway, cement foundation, etc. Cement is simply one ingredient that mixes up with other ingredients to form a slurry mix called concrete, and only when cement is mixed with things like water, sand, gravel, fibers, plasticizer, etc do you end up with the hardened material that will give you a concrete wall, a concrete driveway, or a concrete foundation.

Words have meanings. Since we are mostly all college grads here we might as well use them correctly.

 

[Wazzubrooz]

We choose not to, often. Stalin was a US ally during WWII. Nixon normalized relations with Mao, who is probably responsible for more deaths than anyone in history. The Shah, Pinochet, Manuel Noriega were not choir boys. Lots more can be added to the list.

Feel free to support the evil empire then. You can’t serve our best interests if that is your choice.

 

[dgibbons]

Feel free to support the evil empire then. You can’t serve our best interests if that is your choice.

The Ukraine international legion is looking for recruits.

And please remind me what “our best interests” are here? A proxy war until every Ukrainian is dead?

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

How does this fit in with George Clooney running around destroying presidential campaigns?

It doesn't. Taihtsat

 

[KRUSTYtheCOUG]

No, we cannot all agree with that, because it is incorrect. Why don't we all agree on the proper definition and usage of the terms instead? Words have meanings and the two terms are NOT synonymous. Go back and look at the quote I pulled out of the link from Loyal that explains things succinctly.

I fully understand that a republic is a democratic form of government, but it is NOT a democracy.

Let me give you another example of incorrect usage of words that are used interchangeably. Is anyone here aware that there is a difference between cement and concrete? Maybe a couple of you, but the vast majority of the public, including about 99% of broadcast media are ignorant of that fact. You will undoubtedly immediately push back in order to bolster your position on republic vs democracy, but you would be wrong. There is no such thing as a cement wall, cement driveway, cement foundation, etc. Cement is simply one ingredient that mixes up with other ingredients to form a slurry mix called concrete, and only when cement is mixed with things like water, sand, gravel, fibers, plasticizer, etc do you end up with the hardened material that will give you a concrete wall, a concrete driveway, or a concrete foundation.

Words have meanings. Since we are mostly all college grads here we might as well use them correctly.

You are splitting hairs for no good reason. Do a search "is the uSA a democracy" and you'll find what I said "a representative democracy" and what you say basically say a "constitutional Republic".

You are using a strawman argument. No one here has said that we are a total or direct democracy. No on here would agree that we are. Yet you are basing your whole argument off of that because you don't like the "dem" part getting top-billing. Taihtsat

 

[UberCougars]

The word "democracy" is not explicitly mentioned in the United States Constitution. A careful examination of the original document, including the Preamble, the seven Articles, and the amendments (up to the 27th, as of March 13, 2025), reveals that the term "democracy" appears zero times. This absence reflects the framers' preference for describing the government as a "republic," a term that does appear in Article IV, Section 4, where it states that the United States shall guarantee to every state a "Republican Form of Government."

### Summary
- **Explicit Mentions of "Democracy":** 0 times in the text of the Constitution (original document and amendments).

The framers avoided the term "democracy" due to its association with direct democracy and potential mob rule, opting instead for a representative system. Nonetheless, the mechanisms for popular participation embedded in the Constitution reflect democratic ideals, even if expressed through the framework of a republic.

I will concede that in the preamble and in several amendments, some democratic principles are implied.

 

[dgibbons]

It doesn't. Taihtsat

Is Clooney the real existential threat to democracy? Inquiring minds....

 

[Observer11]

Is Clooney the real existential threat to democracy? Inquiring minds....

Clooney is the shiny object.

 

[dgibbons]

Seems like progress. If you consider a peace deal progress.

Putin agrees in principle with proposal for Ukraine ceasefire and says more discussions are needed

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he agrees in principle with a U.S. proposal for a 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine.

apnews.com

 

[Loyal Coug1]

Seems like progress. If you consider a peace deal progress.

Putin agrees in principle with proposal for Ukraine ceasefire and says more discussions are needed

Russian President Vladimir Putin said he agrees in principle with a U.S. proposal for a 30-day ceasefire in Ukraine.

apnews.com

Maybe old Trump is smarter than the world thinks he is.

Obvious problem is that Russia will want to keep the occupied Ukrainian territory, which will be a non-stater for Ukraine. Although there is likely little left of those regions after 3 years of war. I guess it has been said that the occupied areas are rich in resources (including minerals?). We won't be able to mine them with Putin sitting on them. Ukraine has to at least give up on getting Crimea back IMHO.

 

[Observer11]

Maybe old Trump is smarter than the world thinks he is.

Obvious problem is that Russia will want to keep the occupied Ukrainian territory, which will be a non-stater for Ukraine. Although there is likely little left of those regions after 3 years of war. I guess it has been said that the occupied areas are rich in resources (including minerals?). We won't be able to mine them with Putin sitting on them. Ukraine has to at least give up on getting Crimea back IMHO.

Putin has already said he would entertain discussions to extract rare earth minerals for benefit of the US.

Most of which are already supplied by Chy-na

 

[BleedCrimsonandGray]

No, we cannot all agree with that, because it is incorrect. Why don't we all agree on the proper definition and usage of the terms instead? Words have meanings and the two terms are NOT synonymous. Go back and look at the quote I pulled out of the link from Loyal that explains things succinctly.

I fully understand that a republic is a democratic form of government, but it is NOT a democracy.

Let me give you another example of incorrect usage of words that are used interchangeably. Is anyone here aware that there is a difference between cement and concrete? Maybe a couple of you, but the vast majority of the public, including about 99% of broadcast media are ignorant of that fact. You will undoubtedly immediately push back in order to bolster your position on republic vs democracy, but you would be wrong. There is no such thing as a cement wall, cement driveway, cement foundation, etc. Cement is simply one ingredient that mixes up with other ingredients to form a slurry mix called concrete, and only when cement is mixed with things like water, sand, gravel, fibers, plasticizer, etc do you end up with the hardened material that will give you a concrete wall, a concrete driveway, or a concrete foundation.

Words have meanings. Since we are mostly all college grads here we might as well use them correctly.

NOPE! NOPE!

Can't do it!

Someone might get their feelers hurt because it was brought to their attention that they used a word incorrectly, and since you and I are responsible for everyone else's feeling, CAN'T BE DONE!

EXPRESSO IS NOW A WORD FFS, SO SCREW YOU ITALY!

 

[95coug]

Maybe old Trump is smarter than the world thinks he is.

Obvious problem is that Russia will want to keep the occupied Ukrainian territory, which will be a non-stater for Ukraine. Although there is likely little left of those regions after 3 years of war. I guess it has been said that the occupied areas are rich in resources (including minerals?). We won't be able to mine them with Putin sitting on them. Ukraine has to at least give up on getting Crimea back IMHO.

That's easy. Take the $350B in Russian assets that the west has seized, and hand it to Ukraine. That's Russia's cash payment for Crimean real estate.

 

[dgibbons]

That's easy. Take the $350B in Russian assets that the west has seized, and hand it to Ukraine. That's Russia's cash payment for Crimean real estate.

The money has been frozen for years. Why would the Euros suddenly grow the stones necessary to do that?

Somewhere above I suggested using the money to build the fortifications along a DMZ. Russia would (at least in theory) benefit from that. Seems like a reasonable way to address Russia’s “security concerns”. If anything is left over, give it back to Russia over 50 years, backloaded, with Ukraine getting the interest in the meantime.

 

[Loyal Coug1]

NOPE! NOPE!

Can't do it!

Someone might get their feelers hurt because it was brought to their attention that they used a word incorrectly, and since you and I are responsible for everyone else's feeling, CAN'T BE DONE!

EXPRESSO IS NOW A WORD FFS, SO SCREW YOU ITALY!

You sort of had me until you misspelled ESPRESSO. Clearly another Murrow grad. Comm - where the Business dropouts went back in my day.........

 

[Observer11]

Wellness check on the warmongers. How you all holding up now that a ceasefire is at hand? I know the potential for peace is hard. Maybe cuddle your Raytheon and General Dynamics stock certificates.

It's not over though. There's still some hope for the bloodthirsty. This thing could turn out like the Cougs holding a 32 point lead at half against UCLA. Buy the dip on military industrial complex stocks.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Wellness check on the warmongers. How you all holding up now that a ceasefire is at hand? I know the potential for peace is hard. Maybe cuddle your Raytheon and General Dynamics stock certificates.

It's not over though. There's still some hope for the bloodthirsty. This thing could turn out like the Cougs holding a 32 point lead at half against UCLA. Buy the dip on military industrial complex stocks.

You might want to get your hand off your wanker. If you take the time to review the list of Russian demands, it's obvious that Putin is not interested in peace unless it means that he can roll through Ukraine uncontested in a few years. The ones I saw yesterday:

1) Ukraine has to halt mobilization and training of its military forces, essentially leaving them with no army.
2) Ukraine would never be allowed to joint NATO
3) Russia would keep all of the areas that they currently occupy
4) Ukraine would have to give up another 10%-20% of its country
5) Ukraine would have to fully withdraw from Russian territory
6) No European peacekeepers would be allowed in Ukraine

Those terms guarantee that the next time Russia decides to invade Ukraine, they'll roll right through in a few days with no resistance. If the US were in Ukraine's shoes, with China occupying 20% of the US, would we take the above deal? F#ck no.

Now, Trump is enough of a Putin puppet that it's possible that he says that all of the above sound good to him. Frankly, he doesn't give a sh!t about freedom or democracy and only worries about getting a deal. We'll see what happens in the next few days but unless Putin backs off from the above demands, all talk of a ceasefire is just fake bullsh!t.

 

[Observer11]

You might want to get your hand off your wanker. If you take the time to review the list of Russian demands, it's obvious that Putin is not interested in peace unless it means that he can roll through Ukraine uncontested in a few years. The ones I saw yesterday:

1) Ukraine has to halt mobilization and training of its military forces, essentially leaving them with no army.
2) Ukraine would never be allowed to joint NATO
3) Russia would keep all of the areas that they currently occupy
4) Ukraine would have to give up another 10%-20% of its country
5) Ukraine would have to fully withdraw from Russian territory
6) No European peacekeepers would be allowed in Ukraine

Those terms guarantee that the next time Russia decides to invade Ukraine, they'll roll right through in a few days with no resistance. If the US were in Ukraine's shoes, with China occupying 20% of the US, would we take the above deal? F#ck no.

Now, Trump is enough of a Putin puppet that it's possible that he says that all of the above sound good to him. Frankly, he doesn't give a sh!t about freedom or democracy and only worries about getting a deal. We'll see what happens in the next few days but unless Putin backs off from the above demands, all talk of a ceasefire is just fake bullsh!t.

So you are long Halliburton?

I don't yank to killing.

Make love, not war.

 

[dgibbons]

You might want to get your hand off your wanker. If you take the time to review the list of Russian demands, it's obvious that Putin is not interested in peace unless it means that he can roll through Ukraine uncontested in a few years. The ones I saw yesterday:

1) Ukraine has to halt mobilization and training of its military forces, essentially leaving them with no army.
2) Ukraine would never be allowed to joint NATO
3) Russia would keep all of the areas that they currently occupy
4) Ukraine would have to give up another 10%-20% of its country
5) Ukraine would have to fully withdraw from Russian territory
6) No European peacekeepers would be allowed in Ukraine

Those terms guarantee that the next time Russia decides to invade Ukraine, they'll roll right through in a few days with no resistance. If the US were in Ukraine's shoes, with China occupying 20% of the US, would we take the above deal? F#ck no.

Now, Trump is enough of a Putin puppet that it's possible that he says that all of the above sound good to him. Frankly, he doesn't give a sh!t about freedom or democracy and only worries about getting a deal. We'll see what happens in the next few days but unless Putin backs off from the above demands, all talk of a ceasefire is just fake bullsh!t.

I guess what you're saying here is that Ukraine should have made a deal in the spring of 2022 before losing a few hundred thousand more people and told Biden and Boris Johnson to pound sand.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

I guess what you're saying here is that Ukraine should have made a deal in the spring of 2022 before losing a few hundred thousand more people and told Biden and Boris Johnson to pound sand.

No....I'm saying that for all of your bullsh!t talk about Ukraine not wanting peace, the reality is that Putin is the one that does not want peace and only wants to finish this by subjugating Ukraine in the long run and only accepting a deal that makes that easier. If we were in Ukraine's shoes, we wouldn't be talking about signing a cease fire. Zelensky is ready to lose some of his country to keep the US as a partner if he can do so in a way that saves his country. Putin obviously doesn't share that same goal.

What's funny about this is that you and your fellow MAGA folks were trashing Biden for abandoning our allies in Afghanistan. Trump is doing far worse here and you are all in for it. He is selling out Ukraine in some outlandish attempt to get the Nobel Peace Price and assuage his tattered little ego and you don't care how many Ukrainians suffer in the future because of it.

But, as usual, the MAGA world is full of hypocrisy.