ICE, Greenland, etc. - this is getting so bad

[Observer11]

Yup, perfectly normal to threaten to beat up your friends at school as long as you don’t actually show up by the bike rack at lunch.

So stupid. And this isn’t a “real estate deal” 😂. These are sovereign countries that have no interest in the U.S. “taking them over”. L. Absolute lunacy.

It's actually a mineral rights deal. Business guys do business deals. Very clearly Greenlanders DON'T want to be part of Denmark any longer.

The numbers regarding Greenland.

Trump is saying Trumpy things - and raising everybody's angst. He's making the big ask/threat of invasion. Oooh scary. Trolls the crap out of his opponents. Same as mean tweets.

The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland's vast mineral resources and develop a presence in its Artic region to offset Russia's current dominance there.

 

[BiggsCoug]

It's actually a mineral rights deal. Business guys do business deals. Very clearly Greenlanders DON'T want to be part of Denmark any longer.

The numbers regarding Greenland.

Trump is saying Trumpy things - and raising everybody's angst. He's making the big ask/threat of invasion. Oooh scary. Trolls the crap out of his opponents. Same as mean tweets.

The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland's vast mineral resources and develop a presence in its Artic region to offset Russia's current dominance there.

I do not believe that any president should be making comments or threats of invasion which could be dismissed as “mean tweets.” Even more concerning are those dismissing “threats of invasion.” Dismissing what the president says as “mean tweets.” Look at what you are writing.

“The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland’s vast mineral resources….”

Not make a deal. Not build a relationship or partnership. Gain control over another nation. They have what our country needs. “Ultimate onjective is to gain control…”

Congrats on being brainwashed. Nazi Germany would be proud of you.

 

[Observer11]

I do not believe that any president should be making comments or threats of invasion which could be dismissed as “mean tweets.” Even more concerning are those dismissing “threats of invasion.” Dismissing what the president says as “mean tweets.” Look at what you are writing.

“The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland’s vast mineral resources….”

Not make a deal. Not build a relationship or partnership. Gain control over another nation. They have what our country needs. “Ultimate onjective is to gain control…”

Congrats on being brainwashed. Nazi Germany would be proud of you.

In the extractive resource industry the term 'control' means the extracting entity controls the mineral rights to a designated plot of land.

That's not Nazi. That's two decades working in mining and oil and gas.

You are familiar with Godwin's Law?

 

[BiggsCoug]

In the extractive resource industry the term 'control' means the extracting entity controls the mineral rights to a designated plot of land.

That's not Nazi. That's two decades working in mining and oil and gas.

You are familiar with Godwin's Law?

You are not redirecting yourself out of this. Are you familiar with nazi germany? Is the better question. And the follow up question would be, why do you believe this is ok?

Your bullshit attempt at mineral and mining resource language is exactly that. Bullshit.

 

[Coug90]

It's actually a mineral rights deal. Business guys do business deals. Very clearly Greenlanders DON'T want to be part of Denmark any longer.

The numbers regarding Greenland.

Trump is saying Trumpy things - and raising everybody's angst. He's making the big ask/threat of invasion. Oooh scary. Trolls the crap out of his opponents. Same as mean tweets.

The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland's vast mineral resources and develop a presence in its Artic region to offset Russia's current dominance there.

Neat. Greenland isn’t US Territory. There’s no imminent threat from Russia. They quite emphatically have no interest in a U.S. occupation. When you show up somewhere unwanted you are invading. We’re no better than Russia w Ukraine.

Now if Greenland does indeed have an interest in selling some or all of their land (they’ve said no to that too so far) that’s a different discussion. But military force “isn’t off the table”. Two completely seperate things. Do you support military aggression in Greenland to achieve Trumps goals if they have no interest in selling land and/or resources?

 

[BiggsCoug]

Neat. Greenland isn’t US Territory. There’s no imminent threat from Russia. They quite emphatically have no interest in a U.S. occupation. When you show up somewhere unwanted you are invading. We’re no better than Russia w Ukraine.

I cant wait to hear the text book explanation on threatening to invade another nation as a way to gain “control” of their minerals. Cause surely the extractive resource industry has a legitimate term for it. Lemme guess…. blitzkrieg???

 

[Observer11]

Neat. Greenland isn’t US Territory. There’s no imminent threat from Russia. They quite emphatically have no interest in a U.S. occupation. When you show up somewhere unwanted you are invading. We’re no better than Russia w Ukraine.

Russia has built some crazy amount of military installations in the Arctic the last decade or so. China has staked a claim there too.

The more you know

The warming climate has opened trade passages formerly ice choked. It opens areas to exploration, industry and, perhaps, settlement. The warming climate opens the region to exploitation of its natural gas and oil fields and rare-earth deposits.

Doesn't matter whether Greenland is a territory or not. What matters is that it is under US military protection (for the reasons mentioned in the link if you actually happen to read it) and the minerals are under US control. Going into Greenland is no different than Exxon or Texaco going into Mexico or Saudi Arabai or (years ago) Iran for purposes of exploiting the resources there.

Yes - there's that pesky 'control' word again. And "exploiting' is another very common word in the extraction industry though it probably sets people's hair on fire.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Russia has built some crazy amount of military installations in the Arctic the last decade or so. China has staked a claim there too.

The more you know

The warming climate has opened trade passages formerly ice choked. It opens areas to exploration, industry and, perhaps, settlement. The warming climate opens the region to exploitation of its natural gas and oil fields and rare-earth deposits.

Doesn't matter whether Greenland is a territory or not. What matters is that it is under US military protection (for the reasons mentioned in the link if you actually happen to read it) and the minerals are under US control. Going into Greenland is no different than Exxon or Texaco going into Mexico or Saudi Arabai or (years ago) Iran for purposes of exploiting the resources there.

Yes - there's that pesky 'control' word again. And "exploiting' is another very common word in the extraction industry though it probably sets people's hair on fire.

And “threats of invasion”…. what does the extraction resource industry call that????

 

[UberCougars]

I do not believe that any president should be making comments or threats of invasion which could be dismissed as “mean tweets.” Even more concerning are those dismissing “threats of invasion.” Dismissing what the president says as “mean tweets.” Look at what you are writing.

“The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland’s vast mineral resources….”

Not make a deal. Not build a relationship or partnership. Gain control over another nation. They have what our country needs. “Ultimate onjective is to gain control…”

Congrats on being brainwashed. Nazi Germany would be proud of you.

Yeah, well, you thought Kamala Harris should be President too so, maybe sit this one out?

 

[BiggsCoug]

Yeah, well, you thought Kamala Harris should be President too so, maybe sit this one out?

She should be. Your boy trump is a disaster. Maybe you should sit this one out?

 

[Flatlandcoug]

Russia has built some crazy amount of military installations in the Arctic the last decade or so. China has staked a claim there too.

The more you know

The warming climate has opened trade passages formerly ice choked. It opens areas to exploration, industry and, perhaps, settlement. The warming climate opens the region to exploitation of its natural gas and oil fields and rare-earth deposits.

Doesn't matter whether Greenland is a territory or not. What matters is that it is under US military protection (for the reasons mentioned in the link if you actually happen to read it) and the minerals are under US control. Going into Greenland is no different than Exxon or Texaco going into Mexico or Saudi Arabai or (years ago) Iran for purposes of exploiting the resources there.

Yes - there's that pesky 'control' word again. And "exploiting' is another very common word in the extraction industry though it probably sets people's hair on fire.

What's really weird is that there is a minimum of 1,500 miles of Canada/Greenland between us and the Arctic Sea. In three years, Russia has only managed to get 100 miles into Ukraine. We hear a lot of sh!t talk about us wasting resources protecting our ungrateful allies and suddenly, we need to be on the front lines in Greenland....despite the fact that there aren't any documented instances of Russian interdiction into Greenland.

What Trump is doing....and you are chowing down on it.....is talking out of his ass in the hopes of getting a transactional gain where US companies can profit off another country's natural resources. He's already talking about f#cking over Ukraine if they don't agree to sign over the half trillion dollars worth of natural resources even though he's not gotten a single meaningful concession out of Putin.

 

[Flatlandcoug]

She should be. Your boy trump is a disaster. Maybe you should sit this one out?

FYI...I could see that you replied to Ubergoober. I've blocked him because I was getting bored with his stupidity. It's quite liberating to not see his moronic comments.

 

[BiggsCoug]

FYI...I could see that you replied to Ubergoober. I've blocked him because I was getting bored with his stupidity. It's quite liberating to not see his moronic comments.

To be honest, I do have him blocked. Same for obs and same for you. I will return to never looking at ignored posts soon enough.

edit to add, Im not surprised uberstupid is a maga dumbass. Only the dumbest of Americans are maga.

 

[WillieThePimp]

FYI...I could see that you replied to Ubergoober. I've blocked him because I was getting bored with his stupidity. It's quite liberating to not see his moronic comments.

He’s an idiot.

 

[UberCougars]

FYI...I could see that you replied to Ubergoober. I've blocked him because I was getting bored with his stupidity. It's quite liberating to not see his moronic comments.

👋 Hi

Blocked? Like teenage girls do?

Sure you did, Lemu

“Elbows Up”

 

[WillieThePimp]

So now we send six masked ICE agents to arrest this Tufts PhD student (Masters at Columbia) here since 2018 on a student visa and whisk her 1500 miles away. Because she wrote a pro-Palestinian op-ed a year ago? A) Is she a criminal and/or gang member that I thought was the ICE focus? No. B) are you telling me that ICE has gotten rid of all the criminal migrant and are down to this level of "bad guys"?

How about we/they just warn these protesters. Maybe haul them in for a day to scare them. "Look, any more of this activism, protesting, etc. and you will be deported immediately"? This is becoming Orwellian.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/29/us/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-university-arrest-saturday/index.html

And Greenland. Are you F-ing kidding me?

President Donald Trump told NBC News on Saturday: "We'll get Greenland. Yeah, 100 percent."

"I don't take anything off the table," Trump told NBC News on Saturday, when probed on whether he would authorize the use of military force to take control of Greenland.

There is a "good possibility that we could do it without military force," he said.

WTF has America become in a short 2 months? If Greenland is so important, have an agreement to bolster our existing military presence. You know we have bases in countries all over the world but we aren't threatening to take them over. Absolutely F-ing insane. We are the new Russia.

MSN

And now here is this. There is no way he’s the only one:

Trump administration says it mistakenly deported Salvadoran migrant​

The government blamed “an administrative error” for the accidental deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran immigrant married to a U.S. citizen. Officials claim they’re unable to return him to his family in Maryland.

The Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing that it had wrongly deported an immigrant living in Maryland to a mega-prison in El Salvador despite a court ruling prohibiting it, but alleged that U.S. officials are unable to pressure the Central American nation to return the man to his family in the United States.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers acknowledged in court records that they were aware of internal forms forbidding them from sending Abrego to El Salvador, and called his removal an “oversight.”

Washington Post, 04.01.25

 

[BiggsCoug]

And now here is this. There is no way he’s the only one:

Trump administration says it mistakenly deported Salvadoran migrant​

The government blamed “an administrative error” for the accidental deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran immigrant married to a U.S. citizen. Officials claim they’re unable to return him to his family in Maryland.

The Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing that it had wrongly deported an immigrant living in Maryland to a mega-prison in El Salvador despite a court ruling prohibiting it, but alleged that U.S. officials are unable to pressure the Central American nation to return the man to his family in the United States.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers acknowledged in court records that they were aware of internal forms forbidding them from sending Abrego to El Salvador, and called his removal an “oversight.”

Washington Post, 04.01.25

This level of incompetence is worse than Paul T. Wulff. Here come the maga cult members to defend it in 3…. 2…… 1…..

 

[Stretch 74]

And now here is this. There is no way he’s the only one:

Trump administration says it mistakenly deported Salvadoran migrant​

The government blamed “an administrative error” for the accidental deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran immigrant married to a U.S. citizen. Officials claim they’re unable to return him to his family in Maryland.

The Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing that it had wrongly deported an immigrant living in Maryland to a mega-prison in El Salvador despite a court ruling prohibiting it, but alleged that U.S. officials are unable to pressure the Central American nation to return the man to his family in the United States.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers acknowledged in court records that they were aware of internal forms forbidding them from sending Abrego to El Salvador, and called his removal an “oversight.”

Washington Post, 04.01.25

You know who else cannot return? Jocelyn Nungary, Laken Riley, and the others that have been killed by the terrorist gang members that entered our country while Joe Clueless welcomed them with open arms.

 

[Stretch 74]

And now here is this. There is no way he’s the only one:

Trump administration says it mistakenly deported Salvadoran migrant​

The government blamed “an administrative error” for the accidental deportation of Kilmar Abrego Garcia, a Salvadoran immigrant married to a U.S. citizen. Officials claim they’re unable to return him to his family in Maryland.

The Trump administration acknowledged in a court filing that it had wrongly deported an immigrant living in Maryland to a mega-prison in El Salvador despite a court ruling prohibiting it, but alleged that U.S. officials are unable to pressure the Central American nation to return the man to his family in the United States.

Immigration and Customs Enforcement officers acknowledged in court records that they were aware of internal forms forbidding them from sending Abrego to El Salvador, and called his removal an “oversight.”

Washington Post, 04.01.25

There is also this:

The Atlantic Caught Pushing Another Anti-Trump Hoax Story

pjmedia.com

 

[WillieThePimp]

You know who else cannot return? Jocelyn Nungary, Laken Riley, and the others that have been killed by the terrorist gang members that entered our country while Joe Clueless welcomed them with open arms.

Whataboutism the best you can do? Why not bring up Hunter’s laptop while you’re at it. Weak.

Clearly you subscribe to the rule of “do unto others before they do unto you”. What would Jesus say?

 

[Stretch 74]

Whataboutism the best you can do? Why not bring up Hunter’s laptop while you’re at it. Weak.

Clearly you subscribe to the rule of “do unto others before they do unto you”. What would Jesus say?

Speaking of weak........

 

[WillieThePimp]

There is also this:

The Atlantic Caught Pushing Another Anti-Trump Hoax Story

pjmedia.com

If you’re trying to convince me that you’re as braindead as GooberCoug, you’re making a strong case.

 

[WillieThePimp]

Speaking of weak........

Let’s just spell out the obvious: you are down with illegally deporting and placing at risk of great harm a man who was legally in the United States because he’s a migrant with brown skin and some other foreigners with brown skin murdered some white girls. I’ll ask you again: what would Jesus say?

 

[UberCougars]

To be honest, I do have him blocked. Same for obs and same for you. I will return to never looking at ignored posts soon enough.

edit to add, Im not surprised uberstupid is a maga dumbass. Only the dumbest of Americans are maga.

FWIW, the Canada border security package was put forth when Biden was President and finalized under Trump. Would they have waffled and not finished it without Trump's threats? Who knows....

When it comes to Putin, Trump doesn't even realize that he is the victim of masterclass negotiating by Putin. Russia is giving up nothing and getting Trump to force Zelensky into concessions. If Putin was a car salesman....Trump is definitely paying for that undercoating.

I'm glad that Trump was able to force NATO to up their spending....but it's too bad that he's such an asshole that he can't just go home with a win....he's gotta try to push for more all the time.

So...Trump is hit or miss at negotiating but he's undeniably great at demanding approval when he thinks he might have had any influence on anything....real or perceived.

So, there was no border agreement. Discussions, no agreement. Thanks for the confirmation!

Perhaps Trump wanted a better deal with Canada? One that’s equal between trading partners. Ever think of that?

 

[Observer11]

What's really weird is that there is a minimum of 1,500 miles of Canada/Greenland between us and the Arctic Sea. In three years, Russia has only managed to get 100 miles into Ukraine. We hear a lot of sh!t talk about us wasting resources protecting our ungrateful allies and suddenly, we need to be on the front lines in Greenland....despite the fact that there aren't any documented instances of Russian interdiction into Greenland.

What Trump is doing....and you are chowing down on it.....is talking out of his ass in the hopes of getting a transactional gain where US companies can profit off another country's natural resources. He's already talking about f#cking over Ukraine if they don't agree to sign over the half trillion dollars worth of natural resources even though he's not gotten a single meaningful concession out of Putin.

You're not too familiar with US companies' history of going into other counties and developing/extracting their resources.

Most of the time it is under the guise of the CIA and democracy. This time is is transparent.

Sorry the orange man bad

 

[Stretch 74]

Let’s just spell out the obvious: you are down with illegally deporting and placing at risk of great harm a man who was legally in the United States because he’s a migrant with brown skin because some other foreigners with brown skin murdered some white girls.

That is a tremendous leap of logic you just made there, hope you didn't hurt yourself. Are you down with letting all sorts of murderers, rapists, drug dealers, and sex traffickers freely enter our country and stay here no matter what activities they are involved in?

I am not down with illegally deporting illegal migrants, I am absolutely in favor of legally deporting illegal aliens that are not good people. And I don't give a shit what their skin color is! Can you liberals EVER come up with an argument that isn't about race?

With at least thousands, and possibly millions, of illegal alien gang members and criminals in our country, is it your position that we should just let every one of those them stay here and continue with their criminal enterprises just to protect the POSSIBILITY that someone that is not a gang member/criminal gets accidentally deported?

 

[UberCougars]

I don't give a F what you asked. In fact, after this post I am not going to engage with you anymore. You are an idiot.

See the charm! Feel the charm!

Aren’t you the guy always crying about mean tweets?

 

[UberCougars]

Wait… still going on? what happened to that ceasefire he so masterfully negotiated. Art of the deal!!

Rooting for failure of a peace agreement.

Unhinged or enemy within? You decide.

 

[UberCougars]

I do not believe that any president should be making comments or threats of invasion which could be dismissed as “mean tweets.” Even more concerning are those dismissing “threats of invasion.” Dismissing what the president says as “mean tweets.” Look at what you are writing.

“The ultimate objective is to gain control over Greenland’s vast mineral resources….”

Not make a deal. Not build a relationship or partnership. Gain control over another nation. They have what our country needs. “Ultimate onjective is to gain control…”

Congrats on being brainwashed. Nazi Germany would be proud of you.

You don’t give a single SH!t about the United States being invaded. You cheer it. You cheer for failure.

Congrats 🎉 👏

 

[UberCougars]

So now we send six masked ICE agents to arrest this Tufts PhD student (Masters at Columbia) here since 2018 on a student visa and whisk her 1500 miles away. Because she wrote a pro-Palestinian op-ed a year ago? A) Is she a criminal and/or gang member that I thought was the ICE focus? No. B) are you telling me that ICE has gotten rid of all the criminal migrant and are down to this level of "bad guys"?

How about we/they just warn these protesters. Maybe haul them in for a day to scare them. "Look, any more of this activism, protesting, etc. and you will be deported immediately"? This is becoming Orwellian.

https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/29/us/rumeysa-ozturk-tufts-university-arrest-saturday/index.html

And Greenland. Are you F-ing kidding me?

President Donald Trump told NBC News on Saturday: "We'll get Greenland. Yeah, 100 percent."

"I don't take anything off the table," Trump told NBC News on Saturday, when probed on whether he would authorize the use of military force to take control of Greenland.

There is a "good possibility that we could do it without military force," he said.

WTF has America become in a short 2 months? If Greenland is so important, have an agreement to bolster our existing military presence. You know we have bases in countries all over the world but we aren't threatening to take them over. Absolutely F-ing insane. We are the new Russia.

MSN

Not your President, remember? So, “WE” isn’t what you think it means.

 

[BiggsCoug]

You don’t give a single SH!t about the United States being invaded. You cheer it. You cheer for failure.

Congrats 🎉 👏

Wtf are you talking about? More proof maga is the dumbest of Americans.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Let’s just spell out the obvious: you are down with illegally deporting and placing at risk of great harm a man who was legally in the United States because he’s a migrant with brown skin and some other foreigners with brown skin murdered some white girls. I’ll ask you again: what would Jesus say?

Just round them all up and sort them out in El Salvador! Im not a racist! Im wearing a brown shirt!

 

[UberCougars]

I’m not surprised you’re absolutely clueless. I’d like to give you credit for playing but, you simply don’t get it.

 

[UberCougars]

Just round them all up and sort them out in El Salvador! Im not a racist! Im wearing a brown shirt!

Yes. Send all the gangbangers to El Salvador.

Absolutely.

 

[BiggsCoug]

Yes. Send all the gangbangers to El Salvador.

Absolutely.

And the innocent man there now? What should happen to him?

 

[BiggsCoug]

I’m not surprised you’re absolutely clueless. I’d like to give you credit for playing but, you simply don’t get it.

You are the dumbest of Americans. It is frankly sad that there are posters here that align with you and your politics.

 

[WillieThePimp]

That is a tremendous leap of logic you just made there, hope you didn't hurt yourself. Are you down with letting all sorts of murderers, rapists, drug dealers, and sex traffickers freely enter our country and stay here no matter what activities they are involved in?

I am not down with illegally deporting illegal migrants, I am absolutely in favor of legally deporting illegal aliens that are not good people. And I don't give a shit what their skin color is! Can you liberals EVER come up with an argument that isn't about race?

With at least thousands, and possibly millions, of illegal alien gang members and criminals in our country, is it your position that we should just let every one of those them stay here and continue with their criminal enterprises just to protect the POSSIBILITY that someone that is not a gang member/criminal gets accidentally deported?

If I’m making a leap of logic then why did you justify the illegal deportation of this man from El Salvador with the murder of two white girls by men from South America?

“With at least thousands, and possibly millions, of illegal alien gang members and criminals in our country”

Possibly Millions? WTF? Have you lost your mind?

Fun fact: Immigrants/migrants/illegals have lower crime rate than US citizens. I’d point you to two government sites that publish the data but the Trump regime has scrubbed them clean. Probably to keep the likes of you in hysterics over murdering and raping alien gang members.

The mythical tie between immigration and crime

Research by Stanford’s Ran Abramitzky and co-authors uncovers the most extensive evidence to date that immigrants are less likely to be imprisoned than U.S.-born individuals.

siepr.stanford.edu

https://www.npr.org/2024/03/08/1237103158/immigrants-are-less-likely-to-commit-crimes-than-us-born-americans-studies-find

“is it your position that we should just let every one of those them stay here and continue with their criminal enterprises just to protect the POSSIBILITY that someone that is not a gang member/criminal gets accidentally deported?”

Wow. Just wow. What you are saying is deeply disturbing. And truly bigoted. We are a nation of laws that protect the rights of individuals. There is a legal process in place that has been circumvented. You are advocating for lawlessness by the government. You sound like a pitchman for Fascism.

 

[UberCougars]

And the innocent man there now? What should happen to him?

Foreign terrorist do not have legal protection inside the United States

Why am I not surprised fighting so hard to defend him??

 

[BiggsCoug]

Foreign terrorist do not have legal protection inside the United States

Why am I not surprised fighting so hard to defend him??

Why am I not surprised you dont know who Im referring to??

Again, you are the dumbest of Americans. Simply fantastic how fcking stupid you are.

 

[Coug90]

Russia has built some crazy amount of military installations in the Arctic the last decade or so. China has staked a claim there too.

The more you know

The warming climate has opened trade passages formerly ice choked. It opens areas to exploration, industry and, perhaps, settlement. The warming climate opens the region to exploitation of its natural gas and oil fields and rare-earth deposits.

Doesn't matter whether Greenland is a territory or not. What matters is that it is under US military protection (for the reasons mentioned in the link if you actually happen to read it) and the minerals are under US control. Going into Greenland is no different than Exxon or Texaco going into Mexico or Saudi Arabai or (years ago) Iran for purposes of exploiting the resources there.

Yes - there's that pesky 'control' word again. And "exploiting' is another very common word in the extraction industry though it probably sets people's hair on fire.

So…you’re suggesting we “increase our interests” like Sadaam tried to do in Kuwait?

News flash for you. Russia has territory in the Arctic, we have Alaska. So they can build away on their own land with nobody telling them otherwise.

Again, I have no problem with the U.S. negotiating with Greenland and/or Canada for security or resource conditions. That’s diplomacy. Telling Canada they are going to be our 51st state and telling Greenland we are gonna come take over isn’t. You are making this way harder than it is. No legitimate developed world leader makes threats like this. This is Kim Jong Un BS, and makes the US look small and petty, not strong and mighty. That’s Trump. That’s what you twats voted for.