915–328–36 ----easy. Rich Rod perfect example of a really really good coach at the wrong place. Pete Carroll in New England is another.
Leach detractors- have you seen IT?
- Thread starter wulffui
- Start date
You said it was easy to win there. If it's sooooo easy then why are they losing? If they are such a really really good coach....and it's easy....then they should win? ...
Unless the place isn't easy. It's just a place like any other, and it's the responsibility of the Coach to find a win to win inside that place or not take the job.
You didn't answer my questions. You basically puked out a bunch of nonsense.
What will you say if Leach wins 7 games this year? Or will you disappear?
He could do MUCH, MUCH worse than .600. Let's just say if Hoke had stayed at SDSU and Wulff at WSU....Wulff would of never of beaten him and after 2011' .....WSU wouldn't of been winning those recruiting battles they had with San Diego State and Hoke would of been calling PW his crimson-headed stepchild.They started at their respective schools in the same year and PW got beat in year 4 with much of the talent Hoke wanted. Thank goodness it's all a distant nightmarish memory and WSU is now getting players with several offers besides SDSU or Idaho.
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I will say it was a great year. And I that things got fixed, and sign him up for another year, and it was fun at the bowl game. Why would I disappear?
What will you say if he wins 4 or 5?
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Rich Rod is an easy answer. Wrong defense and wrong offense for the area and what they recruit.
Don James as good as he was couldn't have accomplished what Walden did, and as good as I think Walden was for WSU he would have been an epic failure on Montlake.
As good as Walden was for WSU? Making me laugh if you are talking his on field accomplishments. He was a bad coach at WSU. He was an epic failure at ISU.
His overall record shows he was a very bad head coach.
If you are talking about his off field, that is a different story.
Lastly, how the heck do you know how Don James would have done in Pullman? You don't. I don't. No one does. However, based on track record, he would have had a much better chance at success than Walden anywhere.
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Seriously? Ohio State runs a similar offense to Rich Rod. Same area, same type of athletes.
Well your right, Rich Rod is a crappy coach that just beat us last year 59-37. Name the "dropback passers" OSU has had over the course of the last 30 years. I think OSU was much more geared to run the option than Michigan, and I am not sure the 3-3-5 was the defense for that conference.
He didn't run the 3-3-5 his DC stayed at West Virginia until he left Michigan. He ran the same defense Harbaugh was running at Stanford with Scott Schafer the now Syracuse coach.
Not exactly how our conversation went down. I agree, I was more confident than you based on the information we had. His defense was highly successful at a D1 school. He was fired at Wyoming because the offense was terrible and the entire staff was fired.
Still, I had not heard of Breske before he was hired. My defense of him back then was based on limited information. He was not good for whatever reason at WSU. I could give many reasons, but I am not going to give suppositions as fact.
I was wrong about him. But, lets be clear. I only had half the information on him when he was hired. I also put a lot of trust in Leach in making the hire. Regarding Walden, Wulff and Leach, I have all the information on them. More information means better predictions and better able to understand what is going on.
He lost a lot more than he won and was "trending" down. But, there were positives like he was not trying to climb the ladder after a year. He wanted to stay. He lobbied until the games were played in Martin.
He was what was needed at the time for program stability. For that, I am forever thankful. But, as an overall football coach, below average and getting worse.
Typical of him. Only knowing some information and extrapolating that into believing he knows the entire story. Facts keep on getting in the way, as people call him on it. But, since he doesn't seem to believe in stats, it never stops him from using the same incorrect thing over and over and over.
OK, bad choice of words. You weren't confident, you trusted Leach would hire the right guy. When I questioned whether he was good or not good for WSU, you dug up stats from Wyoming which indicated he would get the defense turned around and you believed because Leach believed he would get it done at WSU.
He pigeon holed himself into this world because of his thinking. It's not hard to just accept Wulff was terrible and stop trying to defend him. Move forward and support Leach and act like any normal fan would that wants the program to succeed and be excited about the opportunity ahead.
But....when you cling to old ideas because you are too afraid to face reality/the truth....make those blatantly wrong opinions part of your identity...and then try to undermine others to prop up your delusions....well there really is no hope. You've crossed a plane that defies logic and reason.
I will evaluate like a reasonable human and claim Leach owns the result. The opposite of a blind fool that defends the indefensible.
It's not just defending, it's making all the things that are his fault someone else's responsibility; the one area in which Wulff truly excelled.
I can't think of one thing that's allowed to be Wulff's fault. For a guy who won a conference game a year. The talent was Doba's fault, the lack of player development was because of assistants Wulff fired, injuries were the team doctors fault, players looking disorganized was because they were making dumb plays, poor recruiting was because internets were mean to him, even Wulff's poor bowel control was someone's spicy gumbo.
It's the blameless kind of 9-40.
Tron...just off the top you have zero idea what you are talking about me and my support of Leach and the program. You want to piss and moan about people you don't "feel" support the program, go find someone who didn't buy season tix in protest. Go find people who withheld money, go find people who wanted a coach fired after one or two seasons and pissed and moaned that he should have "won the hearts and minds of the players instead of implementing his system.
We are now on page 18 of the Leach detractors and we are still talking about Wulff. I didn't bring Wulff into the conversation, others did. I didn't remark on the "IT moment which the title talks about. Wulff didn't work out, so what? I do support Leach. What don't I support? Here is a nugget for you. When Monroe was benched by Leach/ position coach he was sort of getting questioned on the move. Someone close to the situation explained to me what really happened, but to be honest I wouldn't have really needed that phone call and come to the defense of Leach. The fans aren't at practice. They aren't in film study. They don't know why Monroe got beat out by a hard working but not nearly the athlete the other linebacker are. I have said many times I think they will go bowling in 2016. I am patient enough to see that throw. But don't feed me PPG, this stat or that stat. I can see stuff with my own eyes. They are really young by their own making at some key positions, a position that will be really exposed in the Pac 12...and it was.
As to your comment about rich Rod, maybe he just sucks and we got hammered last year by a sucky coach.
"MORE DEFENSIVE THOUGHTS
Not suggesting Greg Robinson should be up for Coach of the Year honors right now, but with the current defensive coordinator, Rodriguez repeated and exacerbated some of the same mistakes he made with Shafer.
Like Shafer, Robinson did not hire any of his position coaches. Then he was asked to coach the 3-3-5 defense, a scheme with which he had no prior experience, using upperclassmen he did not recruit.
What the Michigan defense really needs is consistency."
"2. Obviously, the Wolverine defense was pretty terrible under Robinson. What was the primary culprit? Missed assignments, lack of toughness, poor schemes and inability to adjust? Was Robinson ever comfortable with the 3-3-5 scheme that Rodriguez brought with him from West Virginia? To what extent can it all be pinned back on Robinson?"
So tell me again the reason our coach is sub .500 when he went to 10 straight bowl games at tech and his offense was always in the top three at Tech?
That you can't address the topic of the thread because you've got to shout down everyone else knowing Wulff's fail moment? Yeah, it's a bit ironic.
Cause he got a house built on sand. Except it wasn't a house, it was a burned out shell. And the sand was just a big hole.
Much better after three years than the last guy.
There you go again. When did I say Rich Rod is a crappy coach? I didn't. You wrote that it was the wrong "AREA" for his offense to work. OSU and Michigan are similar areas and recruit the same areas as well.
Rich Rod could have been highly successful at Michigan. But, they were not ready for him. The fit is fine, the timing was wrong.
I still am positive in Leach's hires. When Mike Price hired a coach, I was fairly confident that they would do well. I am positive that Leach's hires will do well. They both have had long track records of this.
Just because a particular coach doesn't work doesn't mean that a coach is bad at hires, nor does it mean that it was a wrong choice or the next one will be bad. A closer in baseball blows a save. The next day he will be closing again until the track record says he doesn't belong being a closer (Hello Fernando Rodney) anymore.
See this is where the logic disconnect totally is obvious.
So what changed from Leach at Texas Tech to Leach at WSU
The players, roster quality/depth ..... that is what changed...and magically it's not as good...but if you don't want to accept the reality...
and you have a false idea that the players were just SOOOO good....Like Ed falsely believes
then you have trouble trying to figure out why it's not the same result....
Nobody in the country outside of Paul Wulff...and the suckers (Ed) who believed his lies thought our roster was strong. NOBODY, and the reason was..because it wasn't.
You know who gives a damn about your "Phone calls" from people close to the program. Nobody Ed.
Really, I thought I didn't participate because the topic was about Leach and when it was the IT moment. Shout people down? Really? I disagree with your assessment. You disagree with mine. But not sure Why Wulff was ever brought into the thread, maybe you can enlighten me?
Wulffui, well...I disagree with you. Not shouting down anything. I simply disagree where the program was back in 2007. I saw the attrition, I know the parts they had and they didn't have. I know what parts Leach had and didn't have when he took the job.
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We can't speak to what parts he had or didn't have, because he was terrible at using what he "did" have.
95...then I must have been the most negative person during the Wulff years. I didn't think they would win more than 3 games in 2008, and saying three was generous. I didn't think they would win more than two or three games in 2009, and again being generous. I thought they would win three in 2010 and missed by a game, and I thought they would win 6 in 2011. They didn't he was fired. I was a realist and saw the holes in the roster. Didn't mean I didn't support Wulff. Wulff not getting three lineman in 2008's class was a huge blow to the program. He could not afford to swing and miss but he did.
I guess you would have to define what are his fault what rests on the players, what rests on the staff etc. Lack of talent in 2008, whose fault is that and how fast should a coach who took over have rectified that? Let's start there.
I don't know, a lot of coaches have taken over mediocre numbers teams with returning starters in the teens. Almost none have crashed like Wulff. So 20% talent, 80% coaches utilization of talent. Again, Wulff took honors guys under Doba and made them useless- so how can we "know" what he had?
It's also something that your reasoning for an answer is "which of these facets of his ineptitude can I defend first?"
Who said anything about recruiting area? How is the fit fine if "they weren't ready for him"?
When Price started at WSU, what was his LONG track record of hiring coaches at Weber State that we knew at the time. Not looking back 30 years, but when he hired Joe Tiller from Wyoming, what was his record?
Ed used to like to post about the foundation Wulff was building. Even when it was obvious there was no foundation, or at best there were big ole gaps due to the lack of offensive linemen and defensive linemen. I used to make jokes about conjoining the safeties. Kind of like these guys.
Got it. So are you saying the 08 team was better than the 1998 team? Where are you on that comparison?
Am I the guy on the left?Ed used to like to post about the foundation Wulff was building. Even when it was obvious there was no foundation, or at best there were big ole gaps due to the lack of offensive linemen and defensive linemen. I used to make jokes about conjoining the safeties. Kind of like these guys.
You can't understand why Wulff would come up in a thread about KNOWING WHEN A COACH WAS A FAILURE?
Evidently, you're the only guy who still thinks that coach wasn't.
And you've spent 19 pages telling every person who isn't related to you that they're wrong. I can't understand your need, really. It's inexplicable.
Evidently, you're the only guy who still thinks that coach wasn't.
And you've spent 19 pages telling every person who isn't related to you that they're wrong. I can't understand your need, really. It's inexplicable.
I know, you would rather simply say someone doesn't support the program that really know who does and doesn't.
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