Shit political thread. Stop it!
- Thread starter Loyal Coug1
- Start date
This.
We may beat on each other unmercifully, but that is simply arguing ideas and philosophy. We understand that each of us is really a good guy. It's just that Ed is so misguided!
As long as we are on the traitorous topic, do you consider it traitorous when the president won't enforce immigration laws and guard our border, allowing unchecking illegal aliens (including dozens, if not hundreds on the terror watch list) to invade our country without fear of punishment? I sure as Hell do.
Should we start impeachment proceedings for that? Say on Biden, Harris, and Mayorkis? Maybe throw Garland in the mix also?
For the life of me...
I do not understand how anyone in our country can be against protection & defense.
Our "Southern Border" needs to be a top priority.
It is.
Except you would think protecting it, not leaving it wide open would be the focus.
Nothing will happen on that. Fascinating to watch Dem policy statements and quotes from as recently as 15-20 years ago vs. today, though, including from some of the same players, and all the way up to the very top. Google a bit if you don't believe me. You've got things like Biden voting for, and defending, fencing at the border, calling for crackdowns on companies hiring undocumented workers and warning about drugs flowing in from "corrupt Mexico." This kind of thing is what makes the culture and social wars so tough. Reasonable, middle-ground positions have become putatively "extreme" positions in a very short period.
Challenge accepted. For exhibit A I present Christine Gregoire. Requested a machine recount, still lost. Requested a hand recount, still lost. Since new ballots kept popping up demanded another recount. CG then was announced as the winner.
Exhibit B was Al Gore, who fought the results in Florida courts for weeks.
Exhibit C was the US House race that was contested in court for that seat in the midwest. Cannot recall the state or winner, but IIRC it was about April before the R winner was finally seated in the house.
FYI Stuff......
From the Austin American-Statesman (pay particular attention to Benny Thompson, who later chaired the kangaroo impeachment court vs Trump, voting to object to Ohio's slate of electors):
The history of Democrats objecting to Republican presidential winners was documented by Derek T. Muller, a professor at the University of Iowa College of Law, in an essay published Jan. 6, 2021, in The New York Times.
"Then as now, each member of Congress was within his or her rights to make an objection," Muller wrote. "But the objections were naïve at best, shameless at worst. Either way, the readiness of members of Congress to disenfranchise millions of Americans was disconcerting."
Muller told PolitiFact that legally speaking, there was no difference between Democratic objections in prior years and Republican objections in 2021, though circumstances around those votes were different.
In June, PolitiFact ruled Mostly True on the House Republican Conference tweet that House Jan. 6 Committee chairman Bennie Thompson, D-Miss., voted to object to Ohio’s slate in 2005, when the electoral votes from the 2004 election were officially counted in a joint session of Congress.
Note that there was a LEGAL avenue for contesting the 2020 election, which is what Trump tried to do. Which Dems also tried to do in the past. From the Daily Caller:
Since the passage of the Electoral Count Act of 1887, which provides a legal avenue for members of Congress to challenge electoral votes under the Constitution, Democratic lawmakers have objected to election outcomes on several occasions, including in 2001 and 2005, and as recently as 2017.
In 2001, House Democrats challenged the certification of electoral votes for then-Texas Gov. George W. Bush, a Republican, but the objection failed because no senator agreed to sign the written objection.
“The objection is in writing, and I do not care that it is not signed by a member of the Senate,” Rep. Maxine Waters, D-Calif., said during the 2001 joint session of Congress.
“The chair will advise that the rules do care,” then-Vice President Al Gore, ceremonially presiding over the session, told Waters. Gore was overseeing the very session that would confirm his loss to Bush.
A similar situation occurred in 2017, when then-Vice President Joe Biden oversaw certification of the electoral votes that handed the presidency to Donald Trump. House Democrats challenged the electoral slate, but to no avail, because they lacked support in the Senate.
“It is over,” Biden told Rep. Pramila Jayapal, D-Wash., who objected to the election results during the 2017 session.
The certification challenge in 2005 was the only instance in recent years in which both a senator and a House member signed a formal objection to an electoral slate. Then-Rep. Stephanie Tubbs Jones, D-Ohio, and then-Sen. Barbara Boxer, D-Calif., together challenged Bush’s victory in Ohio on grounds of alleged voter irregularities.
This.
We may beat on each other unmercifully, but that is simply arguing ideas and philosophy. We understand that each of us is really a good guy. It's just that Ed is so misguided!
I'd describe him as highly morally flexible. 😀
He's a conformist to the typical Seattle upper middle class, Caucasian, secular, woke, worldview. He blends in well to that demographic.
PS I'm sure he's a "nice" guy, too.
I don't know about that. Ed is nowhere near educated or intelligent enough to run with that crowd. Perhaps he attempts to overcompensate with the other factors.
Gregoire asked for a recount because there were only 261 votes separating her from victory, not 11,000 votes. It's reasonable to assume that margin is narrow enough for the result to change (and it did).
I'll give you that Al Gore and the hanging chads was pretty gross....but then again....it was 537 votes out of almost six million cast that separated them. He rightfully lost and didn't spend years acting like a petulant child about it.
Feel free to note that neither of the two above were found to have people acting on their behalf to gain illegal access to voting machines and neither one was caught conspiring to install a fake set of electors and neither one tried to bully a vice president into not counting the vote. And whether you like Al Gore or not....he did his ****ing job....just like Pence. There was never even a hint of illegal election interference in any of the above objections. It's one thing to go through legal channels to challenge an election and lose (or win). It's an entirely different thing to conspire with dozens of other people to attempt actions to overturn an election. When I said taking action, I meant working behind the scenes and actively trying to change the result rather than asking for recounts and clarifications.
If you want, I'll give you Al Gore and the hanging chads though....I was annoyed that he was such a sore loser initially. At least you didn't hear him whining two years later though.
“At least you didn't hear him whining two years later though.”
He was too busy scamming others to the tune of 100s of millions of dollars with his “global warming” schtick. Clever guy.
425,
Not having spent time in Seattle for many years, who are the folks that would look down on a guy such as Ed who graduated from college and had himself a successful career?
That city must've changed a lot of the years
That's fair. Few politicians have been more punchable than Al Frickin' Gore.
The wine and cheese crowd referenced in that post to which I responded look for more than that. The city has changed significantly overall, but this is a subgroup.
Trump was pretty open about working in the open to challenge the elections. Such as the phone call to GA Sec State. Anyone working to illegally get access to voting machines will likely get punished in court. To date, nobody has been, FWIW.
11,000 votes may sound like a lot, but it is a pretty small % in a state with maybe 11-12,000,000 people.
Just for fun, check out this new story today from realclearpolitics.com about possible/probable election fraud. And let's always remember that the Jimmy Carter/James Baker Commission (?) looking at election security/fraud identified mail in balloting as the easiest way to commit election fraud way back in 2006. Pretty sure there hasn't been anything done since then to tighten things up, in fact Covid was used as the excuse for several states to implement mail in voting. And that was often done illegally, by elected or appointed officials rather the state legislatures, as required by their state constitutions and statutes.
Video Alleges CT Mayor Stole Election By Stuffing Ballot Boxes
Democrats insist absentee ballots don't contribute to voter fraud, but a Connecticut mayoral election could blow a hole in that claim.
thefederalist.com
Or get a f-ing life and get your political shit off what is supposed to be a Football board.
I can golf, although I rarely do and have a wicked slice. Have my dead dad's clubs sitting by my door. Looking at them as I type this.
When I was a kid Dad used to stand in the yard and hit drives out into the hayfield, where me and my POS brother were out there with our mitts trying to catch them.
Loyal, sorry to hear about your Dad
Seems like you've had some disagreements with your brother, sister, etc, but hopefully they'll get worked out one day. Life is too short as the saying goes.
Nope, it ain't gonna happen. Ever. He is a lying, backstabbing thief. And my other siblings sat by and condoned it. Not going any farther than that.
The Gregoire/Rossi thing was a mess. The worst part to me was how the King COunty commissioners directed the elections office to retroactively re-evaluation their internal review of ballots & signatures, and made them include more ballots. Then, King and SNohomish both kept "discovering" more little piles of ballots - which hadn't been handled properly and weren't securely stored - but they counted them anyway. Big surprise that Gregoire ended up with a higher total every time they counted.
That was another election where I really didn't want either of them to win - especially not Gregoire - but Rossi was right, the whole thing was bungled so badly that the best thing to do would probably have been to re-do the entire vote.
Ain't it funny peculiar that like 8 or 9 times extra ballots were found that favored Queen Christine? Sure, nothing unusual about that.
I think that judge caved to pressure. He ruled that you couldn't toss aside problematic ballots (like felon votes) unless you knew how the person voted. Except one's vote is secret, so how will you ever know? With the number of problem ballots that were identified, you are correct- he should have declared the election invalid and forced a revote of the entire election for governor. I have said that ever since, and actually even before his ruling came out. I don't there was any way that there could have been confidence in the outcome whichever way he ruled, except to re-run the whole thing.
Frankly, anytime a vote is less than 0.1%, you could make the argument that another election should be held. As long as there is a consistent method for handling it...I'd be supportive of that.
Like requiring ID?
Or perhaps an encrypted password system in which only (living) registered voters can vote once?
Bingo! I have yet to see a rational argument against requiring photo ID to vote. The ONLY reason for promoting not requiring voter ID is to make it easier to cheat.
Funny … doesn’t fix the mail in. And you know who voted in two states ? Mark Meadows . So what you are saying is Hillary actually won in 2016?
When his own people say it was the most secure election , the AG said no fraud, 60 court cases say no fraud and his people come up with the green bay sweep probably should be the dems complaining more …don’t you think ?
Every election has fraud. The question is whether the amount of fraud would potentially swing the results.
I can't say definitely that it wouldn't have in 2020. Maybe it would have or maybe it wouldn't. You can't say definitely either.
Well good for you! I can play 9 on my local 3 par golf course, then it's nap time.
This was me earlier todayWell good for you! I can play 9 on my local 3 par golf course, then it's nap time.
Trump lost. Biggly. His closest supporters have admitted it. 60 lawsuits have been tossed.Trump was pretty open about working in the open to challenge the elections. Such as the phone call to GA Sec State. Anyone working to illegally get access to voting machines will likely get punished in court. To date, nobody has been, FWIW.
11,000 votes may sound like a lot, but it is a pretty small % in a state with maybe 11-12,000,000 people.
Just for fun, check out this new story today from realclearpolitics.com about possible/probable election fraud. And let's always remember that the Jimmy Carter/James Baker Commission (?) looking at election security/fraud identified mail in balloting as the easiest way to commit election fraud way back in 2006. Pretty sure there hasn't been anything done since then to tighten things up, in fact Covid was used as the excuse for several states to implement mail in voting. And that was often done illegally, by elected or appointed officials rather the state legislatures, as required by their state constitutions and statutes.
Video Alleges CT Mayor Stole Election By Stuffing Ballot Boxes
Democrats insist absentee ballots don't contribute to voter fraud, but a Connecticut mayoral election could blow a hole in that claim.
The math doesn’t check out for people who think he won. Here’s why: A. Hillary won the popular vote. This is important with what follows here. In his 4 years since, he agitated a LOT of people and drove them to the polls who normally wouldn’t have voted OR would have voted R but hated him. My parents are in their 70s, hilllary was the first D they voted for, and they will never vote R again because of him. You dimwits don’t realize how many people like them there are. There are a LOT.
3. R voters and his hard core supporters are getting old and dying off (sorry to be morbid but it’s simple demographics) while those who are becoming voting age are voting heavily D. Simple math and a factual reality.
For the record I think Biden sucks so I’m not saying this to slobber on his knob and I’m not a D. Y’all need to give up the fantasy that the election was rigged and flush that turd if you want to get your country back.
Or…you can all keep circle jerking to your fantasy if it makes you feel better while those of us with a working calculator laugh at you 🤷
Those are not accurate representations.
And mail in balloting is wraught with opportunity for fraud. All voting should be either in person or encrypted as described. Get rid of mail in altogether.
Here's the funny thing about these discussions. Almost every time that I read about actual election fraud...it was Republicans getting charged for it. My wife, who is not a Democrat....has voted by mail every chance she's got. She doesn't like standing in lines with "you people".
For the record, I don't have a problem with requiring ID to vote, but anyone with a shred of objectivity knows that Republicans are passing these laws and pulling all the shit that they do because they know that the majority of Americans are no longer drinking the Kool-Aid that the GOP is selling. If they can't win by letting people vote, make it difficult for folks that might vote Democrat to vote. Fuggin' asshole GOP leaders in Garden City, Kansas closed down voting stations in areas with higher concentrations of Hispanics so that minority voters in those areas would have to stand in line all day. You don't want mail-in voting because you want urban voters (i.e. Democrats) to have to deal with crowds in the hopes that they won't turn out. The GOP doesn't give a sh!t about fair elections.....they want to fuggin' win.
Well, of course they don't. Same goes for the other guys. The specious arguments against requiring ID, for instance, are fairy tale bullshit because they want to win, and if you get a D enough wine and they believe they are in a friendly audience (as I see all the time in my line of work; my firm is Silicon Valley-based, focused on tech, and at least 95% D), they'll admit it and a lot of other things.
I will say moving to Texas was a huge eye-opener with respect to votiing, taking politics out of it. Voting here is a pain in the ass and I still have a hard time getting used to it. Back in Washington, it was great Take your time with information online and the voter packet, go through it with my wife (if we wanted), and send the thing in at leisure.
In contrast, here, going to stand in line and vote in person with an awkward machine, primarily just having to rely on your memory of the questions/issues/candidates, or standing there with an awkward pamphlet or whatever (if even allowed), blows. I live in the "nice area," so there usually aren't huge lines and it isn't that big of a deal, but it still is a much worse process and obviously more difficult to even undertake at all.
